PES 2011 Discussion thread

Always nice to be able to score some cracker goals which is easier with the better players but the lesser players and teams definitely give you a greater sense of reward when you do put together a good passing move or goal. Especially if they've missed some sitters during the game!

Just building an Australian league now and transferring the stats from FM across I can see how "realistic" my games will be when the stats are quite average lol.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It's par for the course Rom. When you deal with the cream of the crop in a stat based environment, it will always have an element of that 'ping-pong' feel about it. Thats why lesser teams are where the realism is in PES.
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That statement is a little unfair in my opinion. Teams like Arsenal, Barca, Real Madrid, Inter (etc...) have the necessary ability to play a quick, high-tempo passing game in real-life, so PES is only reflecting that. It's no less realistic or challenging than playing as lesser teams. I've had some epic games with my mates when we play as the likes of Milan and Barca.
 
I think the thing that makes PES' quick passing unrealistic is the field of vision, rather than the passes being ridiculously fast and accurate.

I'll try to elaborate on this;
When you play the game, you play on a television style wide camera that shows you practically a whole third of the pitch, letting you see the positions and movement of indivduals both on your side and the opposition, which the player you are in control of would be unable to see with their own eyes.
This means that "blind-side" passes are no longer elaborate gambles, instead they become simple flicks that any technical player can pull off.

I can't think of a solution to this and it's probably why football games (and most other sports games) will never be truly realistic.
 
Jamezinho said:
That statement is a little unfair in my opinion. Teams like Arsenal, Barca, Real Madrid, Inter (etc...) have the necessary ability to play a quick, high-tempo passing game in real-life, so PES is only reflecting that. It's no less realistic or challenging than playing as lesser teams. I've had some epic games with my mates when we play as the likes of Milan and Barca.
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The level of technique is accentuated drastically with the elite. It's artistic license, I appreciate that, but the level of error is so far reduced it becomes a little unrealistic in my opinion. The need to apply all the basic fundementals in order ensure a positive outcome technically is also negated. Alot less thought is required in my opinion when playing with these sort of teams and players. Thats where the realism statement comes into the mix. Football is a game that incorporates just as much error as it does success, in every area, and I just feel with these superteams, that this isnt always replicated truly. Just by having a team crammed with the worlds greatest players doesnt guarantee perfect football. Madrid during the Galactico era are testament to that. But, it's artisic licence at the end of the day, and I do understand it, I just dont feel it's completely accurate. Lesser teams provide the type of ebb and flow and manual error that you would associate with a real-time game. In my opinion.
 
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My mate often plays as Barca and he's spraying misplaced passes all over the place. He doesn't own PES2011 but is an experienced PES player, yet he struggles with the passing system this year. So in my opinion 'ping-pong' passing is nowhere near as bad as some make out. I still find myself making plenty of passing errors when I play with big teams like Milan and Bayern.

I agree that the individuality is often over-emphasised for the top players, but that's always been the way with PES and is part of the magic. Conversely I feel the individuality gets watered down too much with the lower teams and many of the players feel a little generic. Again, something that's always been the case with PES.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
controller settings i think?
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i found out that it only disables it for both teams
before the update the cpu player teams still were enabled
never messed with it so now i know
only wanted to check if i have the update :SMUG:


Jimmy G-Force said:
It's par for the course Rom. When you deal with the cream of the crop in a stat based environment, it will always have an element of that 'ping-pong' feel about it. Thats why lesser teams are where the realism is in PES.
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which is bad
realism shud be for all teams :D
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Lesser teams provide the type of ebb and flow and manual error that you would associate with a real-time game. In my opinion.
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i call it cpu interceptions
i dont like it

lower team shud have the lesser abilities and thats it
w/o the ebb and flow stuff :p
its enuff to have a frame in which u can only reach a cerain point of precision with this lower teams

edit
ah fuck new post sry
 
Jamezinho said:
My mate often plays as Barca and he's spraying misplaced passes all over the place. He doesn't own PES2011 but is an experienced PES player, yet he struggles with the passing system this year. So in my opinion 'ping-pong' passing is nowhere near as bad as some make out. I still find myself making plenty of passing errors when I play with big teams like Milan and Bayern.

I agree that the individuality is often over-emphasised for the top players, but that's always been the way with PES and is part of the magic. Conversely I feel the individuality gets watered down too much with the lower teams and many of the players feel a little generic. Again, something that's always been the case with PES.
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Nobody is saying that passing is utterly 100% accurate at the top end. But when the passing stats across the team are up to a certain point (which is not Barca levels) you do find that you are able to knock the ball around with one touch football with more ease than feels especially fair or earned. It's not nearly as consistently bad as FIFA 10 - as I said, it's just that the balance is a bit off after a point, allowing people to hit three consecutive backheels across from one flank to the other.

I'm pretty confident that it will be better in 2012. Konami couldn't be expected to get it perfect first time because the passing system itself was too much of an unknownin terms of how it'd sit with the community.

Incidentally, what do the beta people think about how the game cut down on the number of auto-passes when a player intercepted a loose ball? I quite liked it in the beta, though maybe it was a bit overdone. It's still there I think though it very rarely happens.
 
Jamezinho said:
My mate often plays as Barca and he's spraying misplaced passes all over the place. He doesn't own PES2011 but is an experienced PES player, yet he struggles with the passing system this year. So in my opinion 'ping-pong' passing is nowhere near as bad as some make out. I still find myself making plenty of passing errors when I play with big teams like Milan and Bayern.

I agree that the individuality is often over-emphasised for the top players, but that's always been the way with PES and is part of the magic. Conversely I feel the individuality gets watered down too much with the lower teams and many of the players feel a little generic. Again, something that's always been the case with PES.
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At the end of the day it still is just an electronic computer game.
So the best of the best are replicated fairly well as are the worst players. Most of the average pros have to feel generic.
Maybe next gen will see more variety but for now this is about all Konami and EA can produce.
I wouldn't mind a truer sim fraught with slower play and more player errors but the younger audience might not like it. They like it fast. Last week's American Football Pro Bowl had higher ratings than most World Series games. That game is about as meaningless as it gets.
 
To be honest - I support the A-League here in Australia and their Pro Evo stats would be quite average (im converting them now from Football Manager). However, they can string passes together in their real life games. Playing in the Asian Champions League I have noticed the speed of player and ball movement is not as quick as the Asian teams but the passing is accurate. What distinguishes the better teams or players is that they can make those passes at a higher game pace or under more pressure or more consistently, and the fact that the good playmakers will play a killer pass with a higher success rate than the lower players. Now the lower players CAN make those passes but not all the time and only if their composure/body shape is right. If these characteristics are replicated properly through the PES stats then I believe the game is a realistic representation of football.
 
The smaller teams aren't too generic - Konami do a slightly better job with stats for these teams than they used to. Like, in older games a player like Pablo Piatti of Almeria (near the bottom of the Spanish league) would just be a generic blob with no outstanding stats at all, and most of them totally wrong. In real life, he's a very very talented attacking midfielder with extremely quick feet and wicked shot technique (who will almost certainly move to a bigger club next year). In PES2011 he's actually really good, with various stats in the mid 80s... although his shooting stats are far too low. This is pretty much par for the course - lower teams' stats aren't always spot on, but they're not bad. Every smaller team does have its own overall feel - strong and physical but lacking in technique, quick and silky but lightweight, pretty passers but no cutting edge, and so on - and they all have their stand-out players.
 
I still sometimes struggle with the passing, which is good because even though passing accuracy is generally fine, it's more realistic if passes occasionally go astray, and the only frustration is with yourself for not aiming properly.

That said, I'd prefer it if the power of passes could be a bit more subtle. Sometimes a tiny tap of the pass button will see the player walloping the ball and it zips across the pitch, when I actually intended to slowly roll a pass.

I think sometimes my passing and shooting can be a little off because I still haven't got used to the strange almost top down camera angle - directing passes and shots can be slightly different to the old PES camera, and sometimes when aiming I naturally move the stick to where I used to in older games. I really hope next year they sort out the camera. Simple solution would be to make it fully customisable in height and zoom, though thanks to the new top down view they'd also need to allow you to customise the 'tilt' of the camera too, which ain't gonna happen. Anyways, it may sound kind of odd but I'm sure the skewed angle of the current camera is occasionally messing with my ability to aim passes, purely because it's quite an unnatural angle to view a game of football.
 
Yesterday i played on line for the first time in a month.
The "new cut back" is low crossing, people just exploit that. no matter what stinky crosser or what unlikely body position, once you hit 3 times the X it results in a 300 mph cross which result in easy goals or easy own goals. And 1/5 the ball goes to ur defender...no matter what u press it results in a piss poor clereance which gives the other guy another go at the goal.

the rest of the goals i conceded were the usual through ball and stinky player switching.

Gotta say, on line is utter crap. Off line AI i dull and way too easy.

Game will be traded soon.
 
Wendetta said:
no matter what stinky crosser or what unlikely body position, once you hit 3 times the X it results in a 300 mph cross
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Agreed. I don't even attempt to triple X cross anymore (posted something a page or two back) because it feels pretty cheap/too easy/really fast/unrealistic because of the body position. Can't say how it feels to play against people who often try it though because the AI doesn't do it that much and i don't play online.




Anyway has anybody played goalgerd and chumps new option file? I hear it changes the gameplay for the better and i've just bought a ps3 and am wondering whether it's worth buying PES for it and putting on that particular option file.
 
Wendetta said:
Yesterday i played on line for the first time in a month.
The "new cut back" is low crossing, people just exploit that. no matter what stinky crosser or what unlikely body position, once you hit 3 times the X it results in a 300 mph cross which result in easy goals or easy own goals. And 1/5 the ball goes to ur defender...no matter what u press it results in a piss poor clereance which gives the other guy another go at the goal.

the rest of the goals i conceded were the usual through ball and stinky player switching.

Gotta say, on line is utter crap. Off line AI i dull and way too easy.

Game will be traded soon.
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Your not still playing 10 minute matches? Please i mean didn't i sa this to you a few posts back? I mean online fucked atm with he dreadful servers! I agree about the crossing online and the through ball, that the result of shit servers and 10 minute matches which make though balls etc.. easier, infact the whole game is easier on 10 mintues and the AI rushes too much. It's impossible to have a realsitic balance with a 10 minute match!

People are playing 20+ plus these days, it's the best way to play the game, and with the tactics :)
 
I have to agree, the low cross is bullshit.

I'll use it if I have a teammate unmarked in the middle, but smashing it through players is just bollocks...
Sometimes there's nothing you can do - you position your defender in the way of the cross and they; a) let it right by them b) deflect it for a corner/own goal or c) clear it to an opponent who can put it away...
 
Another one I'm hating that has spread like wildfire is the short free kick. Oh my days it's annoying. So cheap and for a lot of people it's a lot easier than actually learning how to hit a FK.

You know it's coming, but the rest of your team don't (they're coded to expect the shot since that's what usually happens IRL) so you have to try and guess where it's going to go. If you get it wrong (or he just hits a through ball in no particular direction) you have to hope your team mates will get their shit together in time.
 
romagnoli said:
Another one I'm hating that has spread like wildfire is the short free kick. Oh my days it's annoying. So cheap and for a lot of people it's a lot easier than actually learning how to hit a FK.

You know it's coming, but the rest of your team don't (they're coded to expect the shot since that's what usually happens IRL) so you have to try and guess where it's going to go. If you get it wrong (or he just hits a through ball in no particular direction) you have to hope your team mates will get their shit together in time.
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my friend does this all the time!

it's annoying, especially when it works half the time :TTTH:
 
Wendetta said:
Yesterday i played on line for the first time in a month.
The "new cut back" is low crossing, people just exploit that. no matter what stinky crosser or what unlikely body position, once you hit 3 times the X it results in a 300 mph cross which result in easy goals or easy own goals. And 1/5 the ball goes to ur defender...no matter what u press it results in a piss poor clereance which gives the other guy another go at the goal.

the rest of the goals i conceded were the usual through ball and stinky player switching.

Gotta say, on line is utter crap. Off line AI i dull and way too easy.

Game will be traded soon.
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Your not actually very good at this game are you...

Are you a happy man outside of gaming.. you sound a bit of a misery mate, these are the opposite of my experiences, where PES has had a fantastic comeback, MLO is an exceptional achievement and the master league offline is brilliant as always...

You think it too easy, well try downloading a champs option file and starting a master league offline on top player and watch as you get taken apart...
 
cafc04 said:
Your not actually very good at this game are you...

Are you a happy man outside of gaming.. you sound a bit of a misery mate, these are the opposite of my experiences, where PES has had a fantastic comeback, MLO is an exceptional achievement and the master league offline is brilliant as always...

You think it too easy, well try downloading a champs option file and starting a master league offline on top player and watch as you get taken apart...
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The argument that if you point at the game flaw you have a miserable life is really cheap, insulting and fundamentally pathetic. I hope to help konami by pointing them out so we could have a better game. And yes i play the ML with a championship team on max setting on the ps3 and i hardly concede more than 1 goal each 3 games. On line i am an average player, 550-560 and i only play with average teams, i never take barca madrid or the likes of them.

As a matter of fact i am a happy family man with 1 kid and 1 on his way soon. But maybe i am too old to get into silly conversation with a bunch of obsessed and biased teen ager. Nice forum, good luck, but it used to be a more friendly and civilized place back in the ps2 era.
 
Wendetta said:
The argument that if you point at the game flaw you have a miserable life is really cheap, insulting and fundamentally pathetic. I hope to help konami by pointing them out so we could have a better game. And yes i play the ML with a championship team on max setting on the ps3 and i hardly concede more than 1 goal each 3 games. On line i am an average player, 550-560 and i only play with average teams, i never take barca madrid or the likes of them.

As a matter of fact i am a happy family man with 1 kid and 1 on his way soon. But maybe i am too old to get into silly conversation with a bunch of obsessed and biased teen ager. Nice forum, good luck, but it used to be a more friendly and civilized place back in the ps2 era.
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I agree with you :TU:.

Your points are true and valid, mentioning real faults with the game, it really is sad that some people have to be so defensive of the game, saying you're "sad" or "are not very good at the game".
 
In hindsight your right Rob. Valid points raised to an extent. Apologies for the Amen comment. Although trading the game in seems very harsh, it's so far removed from broken in my opinion. At it's worst online it's very bad, but come on, lets be honest here - when it's good, it can be phenomenal.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
In hindsight your right Rob. Valid points raised to an extent. Apologies for the Amen comment. Although trading the game in seems very harsh, it's so far removed from broken in my opinion. At it's worst online it's very bad, but come on, lets be honest here - when it's good, it can be phenomenal.
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The AI is almost impossible to get right. The truest test of the game any sports game is how it plays 1 on 1 human against human.
 
Wendetta is right: if he thinks the game is broken and far from glorious days he shouldn't not be attacked and declared a sad person.

IMO Pes 2011 clearly shows how Konami is trying hard to regain lost fans
Of course it has its faults like animations, stiff movements with and without the ball
but i'm expecting an even bigger improvement this year and i guess many more gamers will be happy with Pes 2012 when it will hit shelves.

This is if they adress the animations transitions like wenb suggest with the words "seamless experience"...
 
Ameppe said:
Wendetta is right: if he thinks the game is broken and far from glorious days he shouldn't not be attacked and declared a sad person.

IMO Pes 2011 clearly shows how Konami is trying hard to regain lost fans
Of course it has its faults like animations, stiff movements with and without the ball
but i'm expecting an even bigger improvement this year and i guess many more gamers will be happy with Pes 2012 when it will hit shelves.

This is if they adress the animations transitions like wenb suggest with the words "seamless experience"...
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where Wendetta point fails is that he mentioned earlier how he preferred PES 6 and how pes 2011 AI was 'dull', this lead me to believe he's expecting something similar to pes6 and he's most likely playing 10 minute matches which do not display the game t it's best!

At least twice i've advised him to change the half length but he's ignores my posts and cheery picks who to reply to!
 
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