PES 2011 Discussion thread

[dannyfc2]

Depends. If there's minimal lag then I don't think it's that hard to play against, just leaves wide gaps in the defence to exploit. However it's laggy and you have delayed button response I can see your point.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

YouTube - PES 2010 UEFA Champions League Final - Chelsea - Inter Part 1

How awful does that look?!

We may have complaints with PES 2011, but you have to give credit to Konami for transforming such an awful game as above into a game of the quality of PES 2011.

I can't think of a year where the difference in quality has been so great, with PES or any other yearly franchise...

Agreed, if they can improve the next edition half as much as they did this year we'll have something special

 

[Rob92]

This has probably been asked so many times, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way. What do you guys feel about pressure whores? By that, I mean holding down the square and X button, all the time, so that you have 3 or 4 players coming at you. I feel this requires no skill at all and is very hard to deal with, and I think Rob92 feels the same way as well.

The reason why I am asking this is because, I play on evo-league, and I had an issue with one of them doing this, and when I brought it up, a number of them say its a part of the game and has been ever since PES started, and it's alright to do it. Also, that its actually easier to cope with since they leave spaces vulnerable and it's easier to pass around. I thought the same way till I found its almost impossible to play against, as there's no space and time to do anything at all. So what are your guys' thoughts on this?

Yeah I hate playing against pressuring...

I find that all you can do really is offload the ball very quickly, triggering runs with the L1 + X pass, then playing loads of one-twos to exploit the unorganised nature of the opponents - a tactic in itself that I hate playing against and feel like a twat for using myself.

Since the patch I have been unable to get away from defenders consistently in the same way I used to - I can only effectively dribble at defences using players with the "Speed Merchant" card - I used Arsenal against Inter in an online match yesterday and I tore apart the pressuring defence with Arshavin, scoring a hat trick. I hate it when people whore Messi/Arshavin/Ronaldo, but you can understand why they do it when they are the only players you can't just auto-tackle constantly...

With players like D'Agostino, Djemsav (Jeparov), Montolivo, Jovetic, Cahill etc. who are decent dribblers I am just getting ploughed through or tackled inch-perfectly all the time... Very annoying, on the demo this didn't seem to be the case.

 

[shank118]

On the demo you couldn't do that because for one, blind pressuring would just lead to a foul. The only way to discourage pressuring is to bring back the foul system from the demo. I admit I was one of those calling for fouls to be toned down, but now I realise its a much lesser evil. At least they will get punished for it. I agree that its existed since PES started, but I always hated it. It requires no sense of timing or skill at all, but I guess dribbling pas it and finding spaces is definitely a skill, and I gotta work on that.

 

[sincover]

On the demo you couldn't do that because for one, blind pressuring would just lead to a foul. The only way to discourage pressuring is to bring back the foul system from the demo. I admit I was one of those calling for fouls to be toned down, but now I realise its a much lesser evil. At least they will get punished for it. I agree that its existed since PES started, but I always hated it. It requires no sense of timing or skill at all, but I guess dribbling pas it and finding spaces is definitely a skill, and I gotta work on that.

This is right in line with my views. The demo made holding X/A useless and placed far more importance on timing and tactical priority (hold off/pressure/tackle). Committing to a rash tackle could go either way and the collision model seemed...different (meaning it actually worked). Some folks have decrypted the exe (PC) and are improving some aspects, but I would have liked Konami to stick to their guns.

 

[bonyi]

Yeah I hate playing against pressuring...

I find that all you can do really is offload the ball very quickly, triggering runs with the L1 + X pass, then playing loads of one-twos to exploit the unorganised nature of the opponents - a tactic in itself that I hate playing against and feel like a twat for using myself.

Since the patch I have been unable to get away from defenders consistently in the same way I used to - I can only effectively dribble at defences using players with the "Speed Merchant" card - I used Arsenal against Inter in an online match yesterday and I tore apart the pressuring defence with Arshavin, scoring a hat trick. I hate it when people whore Messi/Arshavin/Ronaldo, but you can understand why they do it when they are the only players you can't just auto-tackle constantly...

With players like D'Agostino, Djemsav (Jeparov), Montolivo, Jovetic, Cahill etc. who are decent dribblers I am just getting ploughed through or tackled inch-perfectly all the time... Very annoying, on the demo this didn't seem to be the case.

Main problem with pressuring is, that it has no stamina effect. This has been proven. No matter how much pressure you apply, or how much you run with your players, the stamina will depleted in the exact same way, as if you were defending and saving on resources for the end of the game.

This is almost game braking. On stamina, only player form and player stamina rating have an effect, no the distance covered, or pressure applied.

Big issue, not addressed yet.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

There isn't a shield button, sadly. You can either stand still, not press anything and let the game do it for you, or you'll have to turn away from the opponent, moving the ball in that direction too. Unless anyone knows any different...

Hey guys - sorry if this has been answered already - I'm only new to the forum here.

I found the other day that if I held the special control button/controlled shot modifier (default RB or R1) that my player stood and shielded the ball like they do on FIFA but it worked really effectively. Bought me a few seconds and I was able to turn back towards goal and get a shot off
Anyone else found that using close control dribble is more effective if moving the left stick through a wider range of motion than just up down left or right. Almost like I twirled through part of the 360 degree range? Maybe it was just my eyes lol

 

[Badgerman]

Dear Jesus,

Thank you for bringing PES back into my life. You gave me several years of hardship to make me appreciate what I now have today.

Thank you again and please do not present to me any more turds rolled in glitter in future.

Much love.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Hey guys - sorry if this has been answered already - I'm only new to the forum here.

I found the other day that if I held the special control button/controlled shot modifier (default RB or R1) that my player stood and shielded the ball like they do on FIFA but it worked really effectively. Bought me a few seconds and I was able to turn back towards goal and get a shot off
Anyone else found that using close control dribble is more effective if moving the left stick through a wider range of motion than just up down left or right. Almost like I twirled through part of the 360 degree range? Maybe it was just my eyes lol

I guess that depends on how good the player was you were dribbling with. I don't think it'd make too much difference if using someone with poor dribbling skills, whereas the likes of Arshavin or Messi etc would definitely benefit from being able to respond to using the left stick in a more subtle way. But that's for me what makes the players feel more individual. You won't try to dribble between two players, even using the slow dribble button, if you have a defensive midfielder on the ball, but if you have someone you specifically included in the team for their dribbling skills, you really see the pay off when you find yourself deliberately getting them on the ball just to try some game winning dribble on the edge of the other team's penalty area.

That said, I've scored some great goals from dribbles on Regular level, but find dribbling next to impossible on Professional. I'm not sure where the difference lies in pulling off dribbles using R2, but I'm way off doing them at higher difficulties. Maybe, like you say, using the left stick to move the player and ball between players is a skill in itself. Just on the higher difficulties I'm finding that really tough to pull off, the AI just comes in and takes it off me.

On a totally different note, has anyone ever managed to pull off a dive? I've tried a few cheeky ones (offline, not against an online opponent!) and just got yellow cards every time. Crouch got a second yellow in rather hilarious fashion this way.....

 

[lancers]

Been playing the game for some time now must be close to 300 games maybe more and the one major complaint I have is the frequency with which my players go offsides.

I've managed to come to grips somewhat with the hinky switching on defensive corners and switching in general but the offsides need to be fixed next time around.

Most games are on Pro some Top Player and my guys are constantly going offsides. With all the gripes I still think it is the best sports title I have ever played on any console.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Lancers - I was getting a lot of offsides to start with. No offence as I dont know the exact scenario you keep encountering and I'm only new to PES but I wonder if it's how your gamestyle interacts with the tactics used by your team?

If your players are making aggressive forward runs then you really need to move the ball on quickly so they dont receive the pass when they're past the defensive line. If you come up against high defensive lines and clever defenders then you might get frustrated...or do you have Inzaghi in your team? LOL
Esepcially if one plays a through ball too early or from too deep within their pitch. Drawing defenders out then acknowledging a good forward run with patience might be key.

Loving the game though...and the online has been improving to a point where I will most likely trade in my FIFA 11 (I liked World Cup so will keep that one )

 

[lancers]

Lancers - I was getting a lot of offsides to start with. No offence as I dont know the exact scenario you keep encountering and I'm only new to PES but I wonder if it's how your gamestyle interacts with the tactics used by your team?

If your players are making aggressive forward runs then you really need to move the ball on quickly so they dont receive the pass when they're past the defensive line. If you come up against high defensive lines and clever defenders then you might get frustrated...or do you have Inzaghi in your team? LOL
Esepcially if one plays a through ball too early or from too deep within their pitch. Drawing defenders out then acknowledging a good forward run with patience might be key.

Loving the game though...and the online has been improving to a point where I will most likely trade in my FIFA 11 (I liked World Cup so will keep that one )

Not so much problem in those scenarios anymore. When I try to work the ball around in the offensive third esp closer to the goal my players don't seem to pay attention to the defensive line. Maybe this generation AI is not capable of keeping up with that.

 

[gerd]

With all the gripes I still think it is the best sports title I have ever played on any console.

You obviously haven't played NBA 2K11. Pes is good, but that game is in a league of it's own.

 

[lancers]

You obviously haven't played NBA 2K11. Pes is good, but that game is in a league of it's own.

I haven't played a basketball game since Lakers-Celtics on the Genesis. Couldn't stand it then wouldn't be able to stand it now. If you think the shots/scoring are scripted in the footy games then you haven't played basketball. Court's too small players are too big there ain't that much you can possibly do.

 

[Granulated]

You obviously haven't played NBA 2K11. Pes is good, but that game is in a league of it's own.

lol..basketball !

 

[Granulated]

Been playing the game for some time now must be close to 300 games maybe more and the one major complaint I have is the frequency with which my players go offsides.

I've managed to come to grips somewhat with the hinky switching on defensive corners and switching in general but the offsides need to be fixed next time around.

Most games are on Pro some Top Player and my guys are constantly going offsides. With all the gripes I still think it is the best sports title I have ever played on any console.

The offside frequency is INSANELY high and is one of my biggest annoyances this year. I havent tried any other difficulties other than Top Player. I'm thinking it's just another artificial and a bit rubbish way of increasing one player mode difficulty.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The offside frequency is INSANELY high and is one of my biggest annoyances this year. I havent tried any other difficulties other than Top Player. I'm thinking it's just another artificial and a bit rubbish way of increasing one player mode difficulty.

Not really. Offside only ever comes into play when you attempt the pass. Guess what, dont pass unless you player is onside. Simple. I appreciate the defensive Ai is alot cuter this year with regards stepping up, but to combat this, you need to be equally as cute in your awareness. Thats the bottomline.

 

[gerd]

Not really. Offside only ever comes into play when you attempt the pass. Guess what, dont pass unless you player is onside. Simple. I appreciate the defensive Ai is alot cuter this year with regards stepping up, but to combat this, you need to be equally as cute in your awareness. Thats the bottomline.

I'm the first to admit that i'm a bit of a crap player, but i don't agree with you on this Jimmy. Not being a native English speaker i'm not sure if i can myself clear, but that is becoming my main gripe with the game: the off-side.

I'm not talking of the classic off-side: you give a through ball and are too late, so the player making the run is off-side. That is indeed a question of awareness.

I have problems with players who are coming back from an off-side position (sometimes not even on the screen) and who are going after a pass that was never meant to be for them. You can say that if that is the case, then it was a bad pass. Well i'm not sure that is always true, but lets pretend that it is for the sake of argument. What is not naturally is that these players are coming back that fast being that far off-side if you look at the replay. That is perhaps the most irrealistic thing in PES2011. It doesn't spoil the experience for me, but to me it's unrealistic.

I hope i made myself understood, because it's not easy to explain.

 

[Radiation]

I know what you mean Gerd about players being off screen not getting back fast enough. Though I only find that problem occurs when I'm too eager to attack again after a failed attack is cleared out to my midfield.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I appreciate what your saying Gerd, but they are late getting back because the defensive line has pushed up. No matter which way you look at it, they are not offside until the point you pass forward. Which again, is down to awareness on the user's part. Nothing more, nothing less. It's black and white. Pass sideways or back. Usually the only time I get caught offside is when my players are pretty much level, and it's so tight it's almost impossible to judge that fine line.

 

[romagnoli]

There is a problem with offsides, in that the players who are offside do not attempt to get back onside with even a hint of urgency. We all know that the way to avoid conceding offsides is not to pass to them, but they simply do not try to get back onside with any more urgency than whenever else they casually sidestep around. At times when I quickly reclaim possession after a failed attack I'll find I have 4 or 5 players offside for several seconds.

Considering my player support is always between 11 and 13, and considering that in some of these situations I am chasing a goal or am in the ascendency, I don't want to see usually hard working players being completely oblivious to the fact that they're 5 yards offside in a situation where they would be my only attacking option. I am more than happy to pass sideways as is everyone else here - we all know what we're doing. But how many times should I have to pass sideways before the attacker realises he's fucking things up by not at least jogging back from a corner? It's not individualism, it's not clever or representative of real life (it can be but it's heavily overdone). It's imbalanced, and is just another gamey reason along with the attack vs defence speeds for people to play a high line.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Well your having problems I'm not then Rom. My awareness and composure is obviously at alot higher level.

Edit - Saying that, I have Player Support at 7, and Balanced. I guess I have adapted my game so this isnt an issue for me. Whether that is the answer, will always be open to debate.

 

[Rob92]

Oh come on Jimmy, it has nothing to do with awareness and composure...

In some situations your teammates simply do not give you the attacking options that they should... It's not realistic whatsoever, it's just incredibly dumb AI...

The shooting physics are starting to piss me off at how basic they are... A football game in 2010 with the inability to hit a dipping shot is inexcusable, also the ball curls the wrong way sometimes - that long range low strike by Gyan I posted here recently for example, would have looked much nicer had the ball curled the other way.
All shots in PES 2011 are flat or always rising, apart from the very rare proper volley... Shooting needs to be worked on a lot for next year.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Oh come on Jimmy, it has nothing to do with awareness and composure...

In some situations your teammates simply do not give you the attacking options that they should... It's not realistic whatsoever, it's just incredibly dumb AI...

The shooting physics are starting to piss me off at how basic they are... A football game in 2010 with the inability to hit a dipping shot is inexcusable, also the ball curls the wrong way sometimes - that long range low strike by Gyan I posted here recently for example, would have looked much nicer had the ball curled the other way.
All shots in PES 2011 are flat or always rising, apart from the very rare proper volley... Shooting needs to be worked on a lot for next year.

I was just messing with that comment Rob, nothing serious, a bit of pre-match banter with a league rival. Tongue in cheek.

I dont have a issue withn offsides for the most part, what can I say, I'm not lying. I dont. The way I see it, is that if all of our players got themselves back onside as soon as our opponents Ai pushed up, then what's the point of the offside trap or a high-line ? I like having something to think about. If your players off, look at another option. Maybe it's just me learning to play around certain situations (Which is definately a PES thing), rather than letting them become an issue. It's hardly a Player Selection glitch or gamebreaking in my opinion. That's my point. Would I prefer for every player to sprint back onside immmediately ? No I wouldnt. I'd rather play the circumstance rather than try to force the play when it cleary isnt on.

The ball curling the wrong was is criminal, I highlighted that in a video way back. It's not often PES gets that wrong, but when it does, it looks terrible from a technical standpoint.

 

[mfmaxpower]

The problems we're having with offsides is actually part of a larger problem in PES this year: poor player awareness. Examples abound of players not responding to their surroundings or their immediate situations like they should. Just yesterday, for example, i wanted to pass to my winger and the idiot was standing out of bounds!

Aside from offsides, goal mouth situations are the other major instances that individual player AI can cost you, as in the times when players will simply not react to a loose ball. The other biggee, which has been mentioned quite a bit, is defenders not reacting to through balls that should be intercepted - and just so we're clear and someone doesn't feel the need to give another lesson on how to defend through passes, I'm referring to playing against the CPU and seeing the CPU defense too easily beat by a 30 yard through ball.

There's a lot of issues with PES and learning to play around them does not mean they are not problems that need to be addressed. (At a minimum it would be nice to have a camera angle that allows me to see whether I have three forwards offsides or not!) Player awareness AI must be a priority for next year.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The problems we're having with offsides is actually part of a larger problem in PES this year: poor player awareness. Examples abound of players not responding to their surroundings or their immediate situations like they should. Just yesterday, for example, i wanted to pass to my winger and the idiot was standing out of bounds!

Aside from offsides, goal mouth situations are the other major instances that individual player AI can cost you, as in the times when players will simply not react to a loose ball. The other biggee, which has been mentioned quite a bit, is defenders not reacting to through balls that should be intercepted - and just so we're clear and someone doesn't feel the need to give another lesson on how to defend through passes, I'm referring to playing against the CPU and seeing the CPU defense too easily beat by a 30 yard through ball.

There's a lot of issues with PES and learning to play around them does not mean they are not problems that need to be addressed. (At a minimum it would be nice to have a camera angle that allows me to see whether I have three forwards offsides or not!) Player awareness AI must be a priority for next year.

For the life of me, I dont understand why we dont have the option to adjust the camera height and distance like in old gen PES. Crazy.

 

[Rob92]

Ah okay, I thought you were being serious with that comment .

I suppose you're right with how it's probably for the best that players don't sprint back onside perfectly all the time - on FIFA you would very rarely get offsides (for CPU controlled teammates, of course in Clubs mode there were a lot of offsides) so you could just constantly play the ball forwards and not have to wait for an opportunity.

I have scored a few Klose v England esque goals from passing back to the keeper and hitting fully powered lofted manual long balls (which are realistic when not under pressure, it's only ridiculous when they are hit 80 yards backwards when under pressure), simple and somewhat cheap but still satisfying - no other football game I've played lets you clear the ball such a long distance, and I think it's realistic.
I'm also loving the diagonal long ball - played one with Montolivo about 70 yards over the full back perfectly into Vargas' stride who took one touch and belted it in under the keeper from just outside the box .

 

[romagnoli]

Not to worry Jim, I guess the downside of me having a balanced opinion is we will disagree 50% of the time

I don't think anyone's asking for players to sprint back or for Konami to overdo things. But at the moment, whether your player is rated 60, 70, 80, 90 for attack, if they're offside then they will edge back on over a long period of time. It can take them several seconds to make up 5 yards. Nobody is against the concept of a defence pushing up, nobody suggested otherwise, but a defence pushing up should not result in attackers being completely unable to react. A defence pushing up should force the attack back towards the halfway line - not leave them stranded and unable to move any faster than a crabwalk.

 

[Jamezinho]

I have to agree that there's plenty of room for improvement where the AI is concerned. There needs to be some middle ground between your forwards either playing the Inzaghi offside position or ambling around and not offering any runs or movement.

The AI is decent enough but I think it needs to be a high priority for PES2012, along with goalkeepers and animations.

 

[Andy]

I have to agree that there's plenty of room for improvement where the AI is concerned. There needs to be some middle ground between your forwards either playing the Inzaghi offside position or ambling around and not offering any runs or movement.

The AI is decent enough but I think it needs to be a high priority for PES2012, along with goalkeepers and animations.

Agreed James, TBF the keepers are the best as i can remember,although they are prone to some gaffs just like robert green lol. But for me it doesnt happen enough to be unrealistic.

Talking about keepers, i have just gone through a master league season, and during the business end of the season, Reina gets injured in training and out for 3 weeks. Itandje is on a purple condition arrow for all his stand in games and crash bang wallop! two errors and out of europe and the fa cup. But like McDonalds I'm lovin it.

Although player switching has improved, i still find when defending sometimes your team mates dont seem aware of anything,but once again not frequent enough to be annoying untill it costs you a goal that is.