PES 2011 Discussion thread

[DagsJT]

Who said anything about giving up? Give it a rest, Gerd. Jeez

Anyway, finding the Chimps/Gerd OF to play a brilliant game of football (aside from PES engine issues) and I'm gutted that it's PS3 only as playing on the PC now will feel rubbish I reckon.

The CPU strikers are clearly more attack-minded and have no objection in running at you, makes you concentrate a LOT more on defending and makes it a lot more realistic than the stock OF ratings made the game.

Also seems that player control and technique has been reduced across the board, or am I imagining it? Players seem to struggle with controlling passes more and makes the game more scrappy, again a big improvement.

Decided I'll wait until all of the teams are doing before I start an ML, it just makes too much of a difference and it won't be the same playing against teams that haven't been edited.

Good work lads

 

[kevano22]

Who said anything about giving up? Give it a rest, Gerd. Jeez

Anyway, finding the Chimps/Gerd OF to play a brilliant game of football (aside from PES engine issues) and I'm gutted that it's PS3 only as playing on the PC now will feel rubbish I reckon.

The CPU strikers are clearly more attack-minded and have no objection in running at you, makes you concentrate a LOT more on defending and makes it a lot more realistic than the stock OF ratings made the game.

Also seems that player control and technique has been reduced across the board, or am I imagining it? Players seem to struggle with controlling passes more and makes the game more scrappy, again a big improvement.

Decided I'll wait until all of the teams are doing before I start an ML, it just makes too much of a difference and it won't be the same playing against teams that haven't been edited.

Good work lads

ARGH is there nothing like this for the PC?? Really want to start playing again but I need something like this to spark it off..

 

[Han]

I just read a strange reaction of Jon Murphy about online gaming:

If this is true, how can Konami ever fix on-line issues??

Tweeters, please ask Jon Murphy about it....! I have no Twitter, else I would ask it.

I make it easy for you tweeters: Just copy & paste the following text and tweet it to Jon Murphy:

Hi Jon, You just said that online-quality depends on the connection between players:
Does that mean that Konami is not able to improve the current online-quality?

Has nobody tweeted the red part to Jon Murphy yet? He is answering a lot, but no answer on this...
Please tweet him about this...it is important!
I would do it, but I have no Twitter.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Who said anything about giving up? Give it a rest, Gerd. Jeez

Anyway, finding the Chimps/Gerd OF to play a brilliant game of football (aside from PES engine issues) and I'm gutted that it's PS3 only as playing on the PC now will feel rubbish I reckon.

The CPU strikers are clearly more attack-minded and have no objection in running at you, makes you concentrate a LOT more on defending and makes it a lot more realistic than the stock OF ratings made the game.

Also seems that player control and technique has been reduced across the board, or am I imagining it? Players seem to struggle with controlling passes more and makes the game more scrappy, again a big improvement.

Decided I'll wait until all of the teams are doing before I start an ML, it just makes too much of a difference and it won't be the same playing against teams that haven't been edited.

Good work lads

Thanks for the feedback, I am glad your enjoying it.

I did a lot of work around making the opposition attack you better as I was sick of games on top player were the opposition had literally 2 or 3 attacks a game and were unlikely to score, even playing against the best teams.

I think the scrappy element may come from having less time on the ball, which isnt always about the opposition closing you down quicker, but reduced passing speeds and quality. Some players have passing speeds over 90 in the game, which makes their passes ridiculously fast. If you have a team with a few players with this, such Gerrard and Lampard your team will be very easy to use as the opposition will get nowhere near the player receiving the ball.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

ARGH is there nothing like this for the PC?? Really want to start playing again but I need something like this to spark it off..

Unfortunately not. I wish I could convert it between formats. I used to release files for the PC and PS2 as they could be converted. I am really pissed off this year that the number of people that can try this file has been reduced by konami brining out a uk and european version

 

[lancers]

Aren't the stamina gauges in the game plan? You just press R1 or L1 a few times and the green or red gauge should appear above the player's name.

I found it. Thanks. There is a bar under the player I think the arrow above is confidence/psychology.

 

[Isslander]

Oops, wrong thread.

But anyways, what do you guys think of the superman clearances by pressing O? They seem pretty crazy at times.

 

[lancers]

I have the US version of the game and I go back occasionally to play the Japanese demo. I like the demo better I don't know what it is but it seems more fluid. I asked this question before might have been in another thread but has anyone played the Japanese version? Not the Asian version but the Japanese WE which came out October 30th.

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

Can anyone tell me how I can make my players run into the box when I am about to cross in? They hover around the edge and wait until I commit instead of looking for a good position BEFORE I actually cross, and by the time the ball flies in, they are usually too late and I get that pretty 'wow, you just missed that cross by a few inches' diving header animation which I am really a bit tired of.

Particularly, how can I make one of them position themselves around the penalty spot which they all seem to avoid as if it spreads a contageous desease? I am playing 4-3-3 with the center forward all the way up the pitch, almost at the touch line, yet when I am crossing it in I see six or seven CPU-opponents in the box and none of my guys anywhere even close to the goal.

Please – with all due respect for this forum and its members – only answer when you experience the same issue and have a potential fix for it. "I am not experiencing the problem you have", "In FIFA it's even worse" or "I think it's realistic" doesn't really help me.

Thx.

 

[Rob92]

Can anyone tell me how I can make my players run into the box when I am about to cross in? They hover around the edge and wait until I commit instead of looking for a good position BEFORE I actually cross, and by the time the ball flies in, they are usually too late and I get that pretty 'wow, you just missed that cross by a few inches' diving header animation which I am really a bit tired of.

Particularly, how can I make one of them position themselves around the penalty spot which they all seem to avoid as if it spreads a contageous desease? I am playing 4-3-3 with the center forward all the way up the pitch, almost at the touch line, yet when I am crossing it in I see six or seven CPU-opponents in the box and none of my guys anywhere even close to the goal.

Please – with all due respect for this forum and its members – only answer when you experience the same issue and have a potential fix for it. "I am not experiencing the problem you have", "In FIFA it's even worse" or "I think it's realistic" doesn't really help me.

Thx.

I agree that this is an issue, quite annoying at times.

I havn't found a way to fix it with tactical changes, but the "Goal Poacher" and "Fox in the box" player cards make a massive difference - Gilardino has both (I think) and using Fiorentina online recently I have scored a lot of headers with him.

Also try holding R2 while you cross, it produces a more lofted cross, gives the players in the box more time to run onto it, try to get control of the recipient as early as possible and use super cancel to run towards the path of the ball, then time the header late (especially on glancing headers).

As I said, been scoring loads of headers with Fiorentina, although that may be to do with Vargas being unbelievably good at crossing (probably my favourite player on the game at the moment!), Marchionni and Santana are pretty handy too!

Oops, wrong thread.

But anyways, what do you guys think of the superman clearances by pressing O? They seem pretty crazy at times.

Yeah, completely agree.

You can be facing the wrong way with a shit player on their wrong foot and hoof the ball 80+ yards and keep it in play, ridiculous .

 

[tc811]

Oops, wrong thread.

But anyways, what do you guys think of the superman clearances by pressing O? They seem pretty crazy at times.

Yeah, the clearances go at least twice as far as pressing square. Seems very easy to relieve pressure that way.

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

I agree that this is an issue, quite annoying at times.

Thank you Rob. I was actually thinking that player cards would eventually remedy this with Amauri up front. Will look into it.

 

[Pere Ubu]

Can anyone tell me how I can make my players run into the box when I am about to cross in? They hover around the edge and wait until I commit instead of looking for a good position BEFORE I actually cross, and by the time the ball flies in, they are usually too late and I get that pretty 'wow, you just missed that cross by a few inches' diving header animation which I am really a bit tired of.

Particularly, how can I make one of them position themselves around the penalty spot which they all seem to avoid as if it spreads a contageous desease? I am playing 4-3-3 with the center forward all the way up the pitch, almost at the touch line, yet when I am crossing it in I see six or seven CPU-opponents in the box and none of my guys anywhere even close to the goal.

You're better off doing a "Beckham" style cross, i.e. crossing from further back (rather than from the byline) which means the ball has to travel further and seems to go more slowly, allowing the striker time to run into the box. This is a shame, because in real life tall centre forwards love a ball coming in at pace from the wing, and will position themselves properly to run on to it.

When you are crossing from the byline, using lofted cross is a good idea, because again it stays in the air a bit longer (which shouldn't be necessary, but often is). You can also sort-of get round this (sometimes) by using a chipped through ball from out wide, with the stick forced back and to the side, which produces a slow teasing cross that hangs in the air even longer. Easy to get this wrong though, and when you do it looks terrible.

Playing with two strikers also makes it easier to score with headers from crosses. I know that's stupid, but it's how it is. The problem is, when you play a lone striker on PES he tends to play almost as a "false nine", dropping deep to receive the ball early rather than playing on the shoulder of the last defender. There doesn't seem to be much you can do about this.

I think it's to allow you to play the Barcelona / Arsenal style - in previous games, playing a front three with Messi in the middle (even withdrawn) would have been stupid, as Messi would be hanging around in the box waiting for crosses rather than dropping deep and looking to run at defenders. But of course there should be tactical options to sort this out - for instance an option to play 4-3-3 (false nine) or 4-3-3 (target man). Wouldn't be hard to program - in the first option the CF would drop deep and the wingers would cut inside, in the second option he'd look to lay off the ball to touchline-hugging wingers and then make a run into the box to receive the cross. Failing that, you should be able to sort it by setting your central striker as either an SS or CF... in actual fact it makes little difference in a 4-3-3.

Another semi-acceptable workaround: if one of your wingers is tall and good at heading, try setting him as a CF but leaving him positioned out wide. When the ball's on his side, he'll just play more or less as a WF, but when a cross comes in from the other side he'll come into the box and try to nod it in at the far post.

I agree with you, that "oops, I've just dived at this cross and missed my header by an inch" animation is really infuriating.

 

[klashman69]

There is an awful, awful long way to go with regards learning PES. The deeper you probe, the deeper it becomes. There is always something new to learn,

Tell me about it! Hence why i tell people you can't truly master this game.

Taken me ages and ages to get a comfortable formation for wolves, at least 15 games, and I'm still not happy, no to mention getting the best out of the players

 

[Pere Ubu]

One more thing: bear with me here.

It's possible that this problem with CFs getting on the end of crosses has been put in by Konami to counteract the "after you, Claude" attitude of full backs, who often seem to lean back and let the cross through, rather than moving forwards to try and block it. This makes it very easy indeed to get crosses in, most of the time. If big centre forwards were always there to get on the end of them, you'd score five headers a game.

The more you play, the more it becomes obvious that lots of these little "faults" are actually deliberate balancing measures by Konami to keep scores down and maintain a bit of balance in the game. That's my theory, anyway. The main problem seems to be that the freedom of passing and movement overwhelms the AI (that is, the movement is more sophisticated than the computer's ability to locate players, or the ball, and adapt to that). This is why you get the rubberbanding of slow defenders catching up with Ronaldo etc - it's not just to stop speed whores, it's also a cheap way to counteract the overpowered through ball, which is not only too accurate, but creates issues with cursor-switching. In older games, the ball and the players were on rails, so the cpu never had problems picking the right defender to deal with a pass. Nowadays - thanks to 1. the increased freedom of passing and movement, 2. a defensive AI that can't keep up with it, and 3. the more realistic foot-planting and inertia - it's too easy to wrongfoot defenders with a through ball. So defenders have to be given an unfair advantage or the through ball would just be an exploit, even worse than it is now.

Unfortunately, the cpu still uses through balls as its main plan of attack because Konami were too lazy, or ran out of time... it IS possible for the AI to attack dangerously without using them, but because of the easy "press X" defending (which Konami had to put in to "balance" the game against the cursor-switching issue) it's hard for cpu players with lower stats to play through defences in a realistic way. So... BECAUSE of the problems with the game, Konami were forced to USE the problems with the game (i.e. the overpowered through balls and poor cursor-switching) to create a challenge. It's all a bit of a mess, and I guess it's a huge tribute to the team that the game is still so utterly brilliant even with these very obvious, very horrible issues.

You know, I LOVE this game (and have fewer problems with it the more I play), but you can really see the joins. Smoothing over these issues so the game isn't hindered by "balancing" tricks has to be Konami's #1 priority for 2012 (and probably is, because you can bet they're pretty embarrassed that they had to do all this).

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

You know, I LOVE this game (and have fewer problems with it the more I play), but you can really see the joins. Smoothing over these issues so the game isn't hindered by "balancing" tricks has to be Konami's #1 priority for 2012 (and probably is, because you can bet they're pretty embarrassed that they had to do all this).

Oh, I totally agree that the game is full of obvious and hidden balancing methods, and that the whole crossing thing is deliberately designed to prevent human players from exploiting it too much, especially with the 'green zone' issue and all that. I also think it has partly to do with poor reading of space (aka 'off-the-ball behavior') of your A.I. team mates (which, I think, is not so much an issue of deliberate design rather than the limitations and complexities of modern A.I programming).

I have no problems with this from a standpoint where you consider this *a game* with its own rules and limitations, but given the claim to realism the lackluster advancing movement of your team members (be it on crosses or in general) still drives me nuts at times, because it's a central part of even minor league matches and here you have world class players who occassionally behave like utter morons and make me yell 'Moooove you twat!' at the TV all the time.

I agree strongly with you that this would be something worthwhile for Konami to address - either through better A.I. routines or – like in FIFA – through a deliberate 'send player' command. But generally using R2 and just ever so slightly touching the cross button has really helped already. So thanks again for the feedback.

 

[mfmaxpower]

The more you play, the more it becomes obvious that lots of these little "faults" are actually deliberate balancing measures by Konami to keep scores down and maintain a bit of balance in the game.

A good pair of posts and I think you're spot on. The unfortunate fact is neither FIFA or PES will likely ever achieve the "perfect" balance. There's just too much going on to code, so each year there's always something - to name a few this year, the physicality and lobbed through balls in FIFA; the ground through pass and crossing in PES.

Glad to know others are struggling a little with headers too. I love wing play, send in multiple beautiful crosses a game but rarely get on the end of them. It's almost as if I'd prefer the crosses to not look so perfect because it makes it that more frustrating when no one is in the box to get on the end of them. I'll admit I haven't played around enough with tactics and formations, so maybe there's a solution to crosses we're missing?

One strategy I haven't tried yet is using an inverted winger system. Maybe the extra time it takes to cut back onto the preferred foot to send in a cross would help?

Regarding false nines, I always thought that if you played a single striker formation with an SS as the role, he'd act like a false nine, but if he's a CF he'd play like a typical target man striker. No?

 

[Pere Ubu]

I agree strongly with you that this would be something worthwhile for Konami to address - either through better A.I. routines or – like in FIFA – through a deliberate 'send player' command.

I dread a 'send player' command in PES. It's a perfect recipe for more "issues". Players making stupid runs in a straight line, defences unable to deal with them and basically ignoring the runs so you can hit them with a through ball every time... it'd be a nightmare. It only "works" in FIFA because the game is so artificial anyway. In a game like PES which tries so hard for something approaching authenticity (sometimes successfully, sometimes not), it could open up a whole world of wrong. Especially when the game as it is now is so vulnerable to little imbalances between the attacking and defending AI.

Better AI routines are the only way. At the moment, teams' movement seems to be too universal: either the whole team come charging up the pitch, or everyone stays deep. But if you look closely, there are certain players in the game who make more intelligent runs, presumably because they have certain player cards like "incisive run" or "marauding" or whatever. If Konami were to spread that wealth a little bit, it might work quite well.

Or they could just look at the full backs, who - infuriatingly - seem to think they're playing in a free role. This is a real pain most of the time, but when you're attacking down the wing with a wide midfielder and a central attacking midfielder, and the full back comes up to join you, the full back's movement is actually quite intelligent. He'll take a couple of steps sideways into space, or move around to give you passing options. Take whatever programming they use to make full backs do that, tone it down in full backs and apply it to attacking midfielders - that'd go halfway to solving the problem.

I don't believe this is just something Konami haven't spotted. I think they're well aware of it, but scared to tinker because it might make the game too easy, or lead to teams completely losing their shape, in which case the defensive AI would be too weak to stop them getting murdered on the counter every time, worse than now. You'd end up with a silly end-to-end game like (I think) PES2. In other words, I think it actually is another "balance" issue, as much as a failing of the AI design.

 

[Pere Ubu]

Regarding false nines, I always thought that if you played a single striker formation with an SS as the role, he'd act like a false nine, but if he's a CF he'd play like a typical target man striker. No?

Don't think so, no. CFs do get into the box more, and you can see some difference, but in a 4-3-3 they still spend too much time about 25 yards out.

You can't even use them as a proper target man, because most long balls out of defence will come down short of where they're standing, meaning some midget trequartista has to go up for the header while your giant CF stands and watches. Worst of both worlds, sort of.

I play with Montpellier at the moment, and my CF is Olivier Giroud. He's a tall guy who's good at headers and provides a physical presence, but he also has a decent touch and is good at holding up the ball and laying it off with a little flick, like a mini-Berbatov. So he spends most of his time deep, linking the play, playing in the wingers. That's great, but it's definitely harder than it should be to get him into the box. He has the "goal poacher" card and everything.

Thing is, he's still scored 18 goals so far this season (it's late February or something), so if he got on the end of more crosses, he'd be some kind of God rather than a pretty useful, 78-rated striker.

 

[Niero]

Unfortunately not. I wish I could convert it between formats. I used to release files for the PC and PS2 as they could be converted. I am really pissed off this year that the number of people that can try this file has been reduced by konami brining out a uk and european version

maybe if you post in teh editing section? They might help...
Anyway KONAMI MUST take you on board online stats are a mess.

 

[Radiation]

Been away from this game a little but I'm gagging to come back now. Quick question. Did anyone ever find the call names for the teams and 'premiership' league with John Champion?

 

[mjsmith2k]

Anyone else finding cheating tactics in the ML yet?

I play on Top Player with Chelsea (trying to win the triple).

Just played Manchester United in the FA Cup semis and it was ridiculous. They were playing out of their skin attacking, pushing everyone forward throughout the game (they were never in their own half), yet on every counter they magically came back in numbers. For the full 90 mins they seemed to have energy to burn running the length of the pitch all game. Every attacking move consisted of a pinpoint through ball to split my defence apart, which is also super effective at pulling my players out of position. So to counter this I kept Terry VERY deep. It was tough all game only having the one defender against 2 or 3 of the opposition.

They scored on early on. Berbatov from 15 yards out facing the other way does a pinpoint chip. My keeper had no chance (and in real life neither would Berbatov. It was physically impossible.

My team: I could hardly get anything going up front, my players weren't going forward (even though I'd tweaked the settings to go all out on the counter) and they felt like mud when they ran. Vidic was catching Kalou without even breaking a sweat. The control of my players was non-existent, consistently losing possession due to their first touch - I mean we're talking some of the best players in the game, who couldn't hang on to a ball. The majority of my passes went astray, even easy passes. Something was up, so I decided to just do manual passes to override any BS CPU tactics.

Then I come up against the super keeper. 5, yes boys and girls, 5 point blank 4 yard out shots saved by VDS. One shot he dived the length of the goal put his hand in the corner and tipped it over. The others with outstrecthed legs and arms. Compare this to Cech who is rated higher than VDS, he had the worst game of his life parrying every ball, diving early, miskicking clearances - and he was on a RED arrow .

Then I come up against the disallowed goals. I had two in the match. I recorded the worst to show you what I was up against. Alves (an awesome signing) crosses it in to the box and Sturridge heads it in. But, after he's headed the ball in the net he brushes against Rio and it's called a foul. Now that is BULLSHIT.

All in all, I feel mugged off. I'm out the cup and may aswell of not played the match. NOTHING went for me and when it did the goals were disallowed.

YouTube - PES 2011 Disallowed Goal.avi

 

[Rob92]

Sometimes I feel there must be some sort of scripting/bias in the game, even online.

One game in particular yesterday, everything went against me - every deflection/tackle went straight to the feet of his players, all of my players were letting the ball roll past them instead of intercepting it, none of my players could control the ball, FIFA-esque ridiculous pressuring and perfect auto-tackling, ping-pong perfect passing at unrealistic angles, my massive centre backs were constantly doing the "stumbling" animation when challenged by a weak midget striker, my players were fluffing every chance, fair tackles called for fouls, blatant fouls not called for me, retarded teammate movement, my keeper playing like he's pissed, player switching screw ups, an impossible goal for him and a superman keeper... I could go on.

It has to be more than coincidence and illusion when all of this happens in one match, and the very next game (and the one previously) play fairly with none of the above...

 

[Isslander]

there are definitely times when the CPU seems to just plain want you to lose. I played a lot of ML yesterday and conceded 2 penalties even though my tackles were perfect. Then there are the times where the referee just hates your guts and is pretty much the 12th man of the opposing team. And although the player switching annoys me less and less, there are times when the game sort of freaks out with the player switching when you actually have the ball, I wonder if anyone else has noticed this. It just happens in certain games, I have the ball and suddenly the game decides I'm not controlling the guy who has the ball. It's a split second thing but can be enough to screw things up.

Still, can't wait to play some more...

 

[gerd]

I just had something similar in my ML...i had the feeling that no matter what i did, i would never win this match. I eventually lost 2-3 in a match where almost al my players had red or yellow arrows up...they were always outpaced and Udinese (CPU team) scored 3 bizarre goals...

 

[klashman69]

Udinesee have very fast players though? Sanchez, Di Natale, Asamoah, they are all very speedy? meh. I seen his happen too to me, those games where nothing goes for you and it feels like the CPU or online the game is favoring one player but i'm just like, 'well it's a game and this shit always happenes'.

WHAT WE DO ALL FORGET IS THAT. Like in that match i had vs Jimmiy in PEEL when everything goes for you like it did, you can go about not even noticing when the game decides to favor you and assume that, 'wow i played well'. Rather than seeing that there are some games where everything literally goes for you! It works both ways imo!

i like this video btw!
YouTube - PES 2011 - We've got ourselves a Game

 

[Rob92]

After Sunderland's result today, I just decided to use them online - first game came from behind to win 2-1 against Real Madrid, the winner coming with 5 mins to go .

I think the strike looked very realistic, will upload it soon, may include the equalising pen as well, the way it was won looked nice .

 

[Rob92]

Here it is;

YouTube - PES 2011 Online - Malbranque strike v Real

I know the build up isn't fantastic so you lot probably think it's a rubbish goal but I thought the ball physics on the shot were nice, and it was a late winner against Casillas (who had made a bunch of great saves in the match) .
I also threw in a couple of replays of the pen.

 

[kgulls]

I have just started a MasterLeague with a team in the Bundeslge 2nd division.
I've edited all the teams and made a few new stadiums and should be really enjoying the experience,which I may add,I am,apart from one big annoyance.
Every game I've played [8 so far]has been at night.
Does anuone else experience this or is there some way of getting teams to play in daylight in master league.Would appreciate any help even if it means starting over.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

those games where nothing goes for you and it feels like the CPU or online the game is favoring one player but i'm just like, 'well it's a game and this shit always happenes'.

WHAT WE DO ALL FORGET IS THAT. Like in that match i had vs Jimmiy in PEEL when everything goes for you like it did, you can go about not even noticing when the game decides to favor you and assume that, 'wow i played well'. Rather than seeing that there are some games where everything literally goes for you! It works both ways imo!

Your spot on mate, that's football. It's a funny old game, always has been, always will be.