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PES 2011 Discussion thread

lancers said:
Can someone help me with penalties? No matter what I do my goalie will not move. I hold the left stick either up or down depending on the goal I am defending and press the Square button to dive as the opposing player shoots. Is this correct? What is the proper sequence I should be using?
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Try pressing square just before the shot is taken.
 
Arghhhh... I've got Playstation thumb. I knew I was playing too much. No more PES for me, for at least a week (maybe I'll time my comeback for goalgerd and CWQ's file).

Anyone got any idea how to avoid this painful affliction in future? Apart from "play less", obviously.
 
Steekbal said:
Today I dusted off the old PS2 to have a few games of PES 6 with my friends, and the amount of things that game does better than PES 2011 is both staggering and disappointing at the same time...

Shooting in PES 6 is more intuitive and although some people like it I think shooting in PES 2011 is terrible and counterintuitive. Body position, timing and all that stuff are fair points but that doesn't mean every mistimed or mishit shot should float over the bar, if I tap shoot whilst in a bad position I'd expect the ball to bobble towards goal and stay low, not sail miles over the bar. As someone else pointed out tapping shoot also shouldn't result in a thunderbolt which occasionally it does, it takes away a bit from the satisfaction. Again, I like the mechanic where you have to take balance/timing into account but the result is a bit random for me.

Off the ball movement is much better too, you don't have to tweak sliders or player cards/stats to get logical results, such as a fullback attacking space in front of him or strikers not getting in each others way. Apart from that there's also the minor stuff like player switching, the advantage rule and the camera angle which I still don't like.

Of course PES 2011 is a much better game and I love playing it, but it's so disappointing to see they unnecessarily took away many good things and replaced them with stuff that just doesn't work as well, or just not at all.
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Disagree with the shooting! It was shit on PES 6, on to the other PES i could see your point like with PES 5 for example but it was really god awful on PES 6! HIGHLY scripted! I see people complaining about PES 2011 shooting which i see where they are coming from with the floaty shots, and the inconsistencies. But on PES 6 it was a totally joke!

The amount of times i missed from 5 yards when i just TAPPED and i do mean TAPPED the shoot button, especially when you KNEW the AI was cheating, with their 1 shot on goal going in an every shot you had missing, just like Northzzz was saying! Every match felt the similar aswell on PES 6, really wasn't a great game! Also was it just me or were long shots on that game really easy, and again scripted. You knew where to shoot from etc..

Northzzz said:
One major problem i find with PES 2011 over the other games in the series is that individual shooting ability seems to matter much less than the other games. Earlier today i watched my friends playing. Richard Dunne scored a bicycle kick in one game and in the other Steven Fletcher scored two power long shots, one with his right foot and one with his left. To me there's something dramatically wrong with the shooting statistics and these examples go someway to highlighting that. I really don't feel that the stats matter as much as they should. I never really feel more or less comfortable with better or worse strikers in shooting situations.
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Rosicky keeps scoring in all the arsenal games i'm watching which is wrong since if you have seen him this season he's been brilliant in ever department apart from shooting where he's been woeful!
 
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Pere Ubu said:
Arghhhh... I've got Playstation thumb. I knew I was playing too much. No more PES for me, for at least a week (maybe I'll time my comeback for goalgerd and CWQ's file).

Anyone got any idea how to avoid this painful affliction in future? Apart from "play less", obviously.
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Have you tried it yet? If not try just downloading the game play file I posted a few posts ago. I have spent the last week editing the french and dutch leagues and you can get some excellent games between teams from them.

If you want a challange take any team in the game and try and beat Lyon on top player.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Arghhhh... I've got Playstation thumb. I knew I was playing too much. No more PES for me, for at least a week (maybe I'll time my comeback for goalgerd and CWQ's file).

Anyone got any idea how to avoid this painful affliction in future? Apart from "play less", obviously.
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Play PES on the Xbox instead?
 
I thought you couldn't get that with the sticks? I assume you mean from the d-pad anyhow... SF2 was the first time I remember getting a proper blister. Best Xmas present ever.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Arghhhh... I've got Playstation thumb. I knew I was playing too much. No more PES for me, for at least a week (maybe I'll time my comeback for goalgerd and CWQ's file).

Anyone got any idea how to avoid this painful affliction in future? Apart from "play less", obviously.
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http://www.geltabz.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=6

I have a couple friends who swear by these things. Hope it works for you too.
 
Are those to stop Playstation thumb?

To clarify, this ain't a blister, this is some sort of RSI shit. Had it before, but not for years (since I used to hammer WE8). Probably a tribute to PES 2011 in a way. Or maybe it's just to do with how violently you have to jerk the stick to get your other defenders across and cover for the loser who just watched a through ball roll past him...
 
God, people who spam Arshavin in MLO are such cnuts. The last guy wrote a message saying "Arshavin you now" before it started, and proceeded to give him the ball at every opportunity. I then moved my DMF across to counter him, but he just swapped Ars to the other side.

The full back wandering, the overeffectiveness of Speed Merchant and the ability to sign world class players in lower divisions, all need, NEED to be fixed for PES 2012.

NEED.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
Have you tried it yet? If not try just downloading the game play file I posted a few posts ago. I have spent the last week editing the french and dutch leagues and you can get some excellent games between teams from them.

If you want a challange take any team in the game and try and beat Lyon on top player.
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Any chance of a PC option file Chimps?
 
Pere Ubu said:
Arghhhh... I've got Playstation thumb. I knew I was playing too much. No more PES for me, for at least a week (maybe I'll time my comeback for goalgerd and CWQ's file).

Anyone got any idea how to avoid this painful affliction in future? Apart from "play less", obviously.
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Maybe just do a plaster on your thumbs? ;)
 
Mityaj said:
Could somebody with a Tweeter account post this to John Murphy? Its a very important gamplay bug!
"Cant clear the intercepted ball with first touch!!! This is the second biggest flaw of the game together with player switching problem!

Simply put, whenever my intercepts a through-ball, he ALWAYS will use AT LEAST 2 (TWO!!) touches to get rid of it. Imagine intercepting in a crowded penalty area and being COMPLETELY unable to clear straight away. You always have to control it , after which the attacker may well have dispossessed you again!"
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Am I the only one who has an issue with this? In my opinion, it a huge issue!
 
Mityaj said:
Am I the only one who has an issue with this? In my opinion, it a huge issue!
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Try to press the button faster to clear the ball... when your player has not reached the ball yet.. ill check it again

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updated : just try some matches. yeah it seems so mate, Cant clear the intercepted ball with first touch from through ball.

IMO, I presume because in PES 2011, when defending, the game recognize our shoot/pass button as another function i.e tackle, team mate pressure etc until the ball is with us, so it seems that we will be enabled to pass/kick the ball as soon as the game recognize that we are with the ball which needs at least one touch, what do you think.. ?
 
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Ok, so I kind of promised myself I wouldnt go here, but I feel this has to be broken down once and for all. Firstly, you cannot compare the simulated side of shooting in PES 6 to PES 2011, they are light years apart with regards technical reconstruction. PES 6, in my opinion, was as 'Arcade' as PES got in Old Gen. I bought it and played it prior to the release of PES 2011, and I found it to be dated and unrealistic in so many areas it was actually quite shocking. It still followed the basic principles of striking, but there were far less relevant contributing technical factors that you were required to adhere to, in order to strike the ball cleanly. Without going into exactly what it lacked, I'd prefer to highlight what is instrumental in PES 2011, and you can deduce the differences yourself.

The shooting system in PES 2011 is incredibly advanced from a technical simulated perspective, and unless you truly grasp it's relevant idiology, I can appreciate it may well feel very random to you. This randomness is derived from the huge amount of variables that this system can produce. Nothing more, nothing less. It's the understanding of these fundementals that will help you achieve your goal, pardon the cheap pun. Like I have said many times before, and it's the classic footballing cliche, but there are no guarantees in football, nothing is ever certain, all you can do, is give yourself the best possible foundation for the strike, and the rest is in the hands of each players own technique, and the lap of the footballing Gods.

When shooting a ball in real-life, your power isnt generated by how hard you swing your leg, it's by the smoothness of the motion, the follow-through of the strike, and technical prowess. Other factors that contribute massively to a clean strike are are body-posture, body-balance, preferred striking foot, timing, angles, the distance from the ball, and the position of your standing leg. In order to give yourself the best possible chance of a clean strike, all of these factors need to be in place, in real-life and in PES. And the way in which PES replictes this is exact philosophy is quite staggering, and in a word, genius.

The varying results of a strike in PES all relate to everything I have listed. The randomness, when all relevant techniques are in place, then comes from the individual nature of each and every player. PES has a plethora of statistics that massively vary from one player to the next, and for the most part, it's these statistics that are paramount in deciding the relevant outcome. The worlds greatest strikers are defined by their ability to be able to find that clean strike, when the basic fundementals are stacked against them. By this I mean, the ability to strike a ball cleanly when their body- balance, body-posture or the best angle isnt available to them. Players that manage to be able to create power and accuracy when they have to 'dig the ball out of their feet' or react and address their stance in a split-second from an unfavourable bounce or ricochet. This is what great strikers are capable of, if you like, they have the ability to over-ride basic fundementals due to superior technique.

These type of players are highlighted very well in PES. The likes of Torres, Drogba, Messi, Ronaldo, Villa, Rooney et al, are all capable of producing clean strikes, shots, without really needing to adhere exclusively to all the basic fundementals. This is what seperates them, this is what makes them God-like in comparison, and why I hate playing with them, or against them, very little thought required.

Being aware of the player that your trying to shoot with is half of the skill in PES, the other half, is just following basic fundementals. When it comes to shooting in PES 2011, 99% of the time, if I hit a poor strike, I know exactly where I went wrong technique-wise. PES get's this so, so right, it's just a shame that not everybody can see or appreciate it's beauty, for whatever reason that maybe. I read alot of people commenting on that fact they only need to press the shoot button for a very short time to gain maximum power, and sometimes they have to hold it down longer. This actually has nothing to do with how long you press the button for, the deciding factor here is completely relevant to position of the ball, distance from the player, body-angle, body-posture, and the player your controlling.

In real-life, in order to get a good, clean powerful strike, you need space and time for the most part, but not all. (Again see Elite players and momentum and inertia). The follow-through of the strike is what gives you the power, just as much as where you connect with the ball. Running onto a strike, with a 2-3 foot stride pattern will, if your technique is sound, will give you a powerful shot. Also, using the momentum of the ball coming in your direction utilises physics to enhance the power. Hence the reason you see players have freekicks 'rolled' back to them, or really powerful strikes from first time shots outside the box, from the likes of cleared corners etc. Just make sure the ball is out of your feet, your body angle is good, your not under pressure. If the ball is 'in your feet' then the chances are your power is produced via either a snap-shot, or you leaning back. When leaning back, control is compromised, and you more often than not will see the ball rise.

There are so many different way's to shoot in PES. The shoot then R1 dink shot is a brilliant way to finish in very tight situations. The timing needs to be perfect, especially against the better goalkeepers, as they stand tall till the very last minute. Pressing shoot with L1 held for a chip shot is another great way in which a players vision can be rewarded. It's one of my favourite ways to score, and with players with high technique, a great weapon. For those of you having trouble with finishing inside the box, the 'Controlled' shot works well. Pressing shoot followed immediately by R2 will sacrifice power for accuracy. These are all different ways to shoot, for different situations.

Like I said, I have no problem whatsoever with the shooting, it does exactly what I ask it to achieve. The varying results are based on each individual player's ability. Knowing each player and what he is capable of on PES is a skill in itself, but get the basics in place, and you shouldnt have any issues.
 
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im stunned to be reading some people dont like this game, i think its BRILLIANT! been playing against a mate with the classic teams, we are playing for money, makes it more interesting, the gameplay is SENSATIONAL, best game EVER!
 
But Jimmy although your right, people don't want that anymore and people tend to be deluded.

They see anything that they like to be 'realistic' no matter if it's totally bullshit. and anything which isn't instantly satisfying and hard to understand bullshit!
 
klashman69 said:
But Jimmy although your right, people don't want that anymore and people tend to be deluded.

They see anything that they like to be 'realistic' no matter if it's totally bullshit. and anything which isn't instantly satisfying and hard to understand bullshit!
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I find it hard to explain to be honest mate, as it's just all natural for me. I'm not a gamer, I'm shit at games, the only reason I can play PES is because all I do is follow real-life basics. And it works, it always has. You have to be even cuter these days though, but I love that to, the more realistic the better for me.

We have a fixture by the way, I'm on later tonight if you want play it then. ;)
 
Great post Jimmy, the best I've seen in a while :).

Been using Fiorentina today in online ranked matches, great fun :) They have some fantastic technical players.
 
Me and my housemates decided to sum this game up by saying it's half brilliant and half awful. I think it's a fair conclusion after about a month of continuous play.

I really do think some people have gone overboard in their 'love' for the game (like those who dub it the best football game ever). I can understand why you would say this as there are aspects of the game which are simply brilliant but i feel like the game is still half way through it's development process. Some aspects of the game work much much better than others, which in contrast feel half completed.

I'd find it hard to believe that people have not had 'those games' where it just for seemingly no reason makes the game play like shit. On the other end of the spectrum when the game clicks, it plays really good. It's still not the consistent game of last gen but for the most part the really good parts are much much better than the consistently average Fifa. Where at the other end of the scale the worst parts are probably much worse.


Jimmys post about shooting is pretty much correct. One of the few issues i still have is that weird floaty shot that sometimes happens when under pressure because to me it doesn't make sense. Either blasting it wide or just scuffing the ball so that you barely make contact would make more sense.
 
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Mityaj said:
Am I the only one who has an issue with this? In my opinion, it a huge issue!
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No. You can't pass an intercepted ball first time either, certainly not at my mid 70's MLO level.

As for the shooting, I think you're overdoing it a bit Jim. It can be very good, and at times it is as amazing as you say. But there's no ignoring that sometimes the faintest tap leads to the ball flying over in situations where the player isn't even leaning back or otherwise in a position where they would spoon the ball. Conversely the volleying, half volleying and scissor kicking is way too effective. I probably concede more goals from heading corners clear to 25 yards out and Dodo or similar hitting the ball first time than from headers themselves.

There are a lot of great - seriously great - aspects to the shooting, and to the game as a whole... I just worry when it goes all doublespeak. It hinders progress to overdo the praise and not acknowledge those areas where Konami have got it wrong. (Edit: or where they can improve things)

I'm seriously fed up of the manual long ball clearances that travel 80-90 yards despite Valeny facing his own goal. Surprised Konami missed that considering manual ground pass seems quite restricted if you're facing a less than ideal direction.
 
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romagnoli said:
No. You can't pass an intercepted ball first time either, certainly not at my mid 70's MLO level.

As for the shooting, I think you're overdoing it a bit Jim. It can be very good, and at times it is as amazing as you say. But there's no ignoring that sometimes the faintest tap leads to the ball flying over in situations where the player isn't even leaning back or otherwise in a position where they would spoon the ball. Conversely the volleying, half volleying and scissor kicking is way too effective. I probably concede more goals from heading corners clear to 25 yards out and Dodo or similar hitting the ball first time than from headers themselves.

There are a lot of great - seriously great - aspects to the shooting, and to the game as a whole... I just worry when it goes all doublespeak. It hinders progress to overdo the praise and not acknowledge those areas where Konami have got it wrong.

I'm seriously fed up of the manual long ball clearances that travel 80-90 yards despite Valeny facing his own goal. Surprised Konami missed that considering manual ground pass seems quite restricted if you're facing a less than ideal direction.
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True mate, but that's just poor technique, that even the best players in the world are capable of producing on a 'Purple' or 'Blue' day. We see this week in week out. It's par for the course. I agree that on the very odd occasion, more power is generated than should be physically possible, but I'm splitting hairs there, such is it's infrequent nature. Or at least in my experience anyway.

I couldnt agree more with your last paragraph, it's shocking.
 
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I like the shooting system, like Jimmy said, it is the best representation of real world shooting in a video game (so far). The problem for me is the visual feedback. The animations often betray the ball's final trajectory. There is not enough variation in the shooting animations and this often results in complaints.
 
Northzzz said:
Me and my housemates decided to sum this game up by saying it's half brilliant and half awful. I think it's a fair conclusion after about a month of continuous play.

I really do think some people have gone overboard in their 'love' for the game (like those who dub it the best football game ever). I can understand why you would say this as there are aspects of the game which are simply brilliant but i feel like the game is still half way through it's development process. Some aspects of the game work much much better than others, which in contrast feel half completed.

I'd find it hard to believe that people have not had 'those games' where it just for seemingly no reason makes the game play like shit. On the other end of the spectrum when the game clicks, it plays really good. It's still not the consistent game of last gen but for the most part the really good parts are much much better than the consistently average Fifa. Where at the other end of the scale the worst parts are probably much worse.


Jimmys post about shooting is pretty much correct. One of the few issues i still have is that weird floaty shot that sometimes happens when under pressure because to me it doesn't make sense. Either blasting it wide or just scuffing the ball so that you barely make contact would make more sense.
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Yup.. sometimes the floaty ball physic is too much.. and also Goalkick by keeper.. look at the trajectory of the ball when it goes down is sooo :TTTH:..

These what i hope being improved for next version, since imo generally the ball physic is great.. its just like as you said "half brilliant and half awful".

well, at least i expect what 2011 becomes, since if i recall correctly Konami's guys said PES 2011 is a good base/foundation for the NG version.. so here it is.. not 100% completed. but the playability is just as good as it is.
 
mnj said:
Would you mind explaining how your edits improve the gameplay.....does it simply just make the game harder, or is there more to it than that?

Also, if I use it, I take it I need to re-start my current ML?
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This is from something I wrote for another site, but more or less answers your question. Also, I don't think it will affect your master league game as those players stats for yoru saved game are kept seperate. You will only see the game play changes in any thing you start after you copy the edit file over.

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The changes I make are more designed to make the game play realistic and enjoyable.

I set out to improve the game by changing what I think it needs which in this version is to balance the gap between small and big teams ( as it is every year), improve responsiveness, give fast attackers the ability to stay ahead of slow defenders and to increase the difficulty of top player and finally to then balance the speed of the game.

Along the way the vast majority of players will be given much more accurate stats as the majority of players in the game who are not at top clubs are unresponsive, don’t have AI that will make them a challenge to play against and if they are a striker, they will be painfully slow and unable to shoot, which makes then rubbish to play with and against as they cannot score against you.

As well as this the players at top clubs who I think have been given wrong stats are changed with some being improved and some super human players being brought down.

I then test the game a great deal with games between teams in each league and then between teams from different leagues and fine-tune it. This takes the most time as having a one player running or passing the ball too fast by as little as 1 or 2 can unbalance games.

I work in software production for a company that has major releases of world wide available products and know how surprisingly little concentration is given to very big annual releases that the company depends on as they think adding a few new features will keep people interested. Because of this and looking at the changes to player database in the game each year, I honestly think that I spend more time each year editing the actual game play of this game than anyone in its development and its annoying as the game could wipe the floor with Fifa if they just concentrated on the balance of the game and not use how much control you have over players and their physical attributes to define their ability
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
True mate, but that's just poor technique, that even the best players in the world are capable of producing on a 'Purple' or 'Blue' day. We see this week in week out. It's par for the course. I agree that on the very odd occasion, more power is generated than should be physically possible, but I'm splitting hairs there, such is it's infrequent nature. Or at least in my experience anyway.

I couldnt agree more with your last paragraph, it's shocking.
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I know how it can be justified in principle but the point is it's overdone. It's not infrequent if you have strikers who aren't Suarez or Dzeko ;). There are so many different ways to represent poor technique, and it's not guaranteed that a player with technique in the low 70's or less will spoon a tapped shot over just because a defender is running behind them.

As I said, I do think it's mostly brilliant, and Erding has scored a couple of beauties recently, lobbing a keeper on the half volley without me actually pressing L1. It is important to point these things out though just to be more specific about what people are struggling with, rather than leave Konami to be presented with 'shooting is shit' and watch them change it into something we don't like.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Being aware of the player that your trying to shoot with is half of the skill in PES, the other half, is just following basic fundementals. When it comes to shooting in PES 2011, 99% of the time, if I hit a poor strike, I know exactly where I went wrong technique-wise. PES get's this so, so right, it's just a shame that not everybody can see or appreciate it's beauty, for whatever reason that maybe. I read alot of people commenting on that fact they only need to press the shoot button for a very short time to gain maximum power, and sometimes they have to hold it down longer. This actually has nothing to do with how long you press the button for, the deciding factor here is completely relevant to position of the ball, distance from the player, body-angle, body-posture, and the player your controlling.
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The point is that it should.

For all the details that may or may not be involved when shooting, there are two parts of the shooting system that must be implemented well or else it's less than ideal - the footballing side and the technical side. In PES 2011 the footballing factors are implemented well, like you detailed. It's the other side of equation that isn't implemented as well: controller inputs (and animations to a lesser extent).

A slight press of the lob pass button results in a weak pass. Hold it down too long and you overhit your intended target. The same logic works for ground passing. In addition to button pressure for power, you also must consider your stick inputs for direction accuracy. The problems most people are having seem to result from this logic not being applied well with the shooting system.

A slight tap of the shooting button shouldn't result in either a hard driven shot or a weak floater. Ideally a tap of the shot button would lead to relatively low powered shot and all of the footballing elements you described would determine the type of low-powered shot and its accuracy. Conversely you would expect pressing the button longer would always lead to a more powerful shot, and again all the factors you described would determine the type and accuracy of that more powerful shot.

This isn't only logical or ideal, it's also what the PES manual implies - the longer you hold down the button determines power and height of your shot. The problem, imo, is that if you're going to have a system that is based on length of time you press the shot button (in addition to the other variables you mentioned) then the button probably shouldn't be as pressure sensitive as it is this year.

Gameplay mechanics can be great - and overall they are this year - but if the other parts of what goes into making a quality game, namely the control system in this case, isn't up to par then the game will suffer. Another example of this is player switching. Or the apparent inability to clear a ball on first touch.

The shooting system, though sound from a footballing point of view, has a level of inconsistency related to the controller inputs, specifically related to shot power and time the button is depressed, that imo is causing people frustration. When a slight tap of the shooting button can so easily lead to 30-yard bicycle kick or floating a 5-yard sitter over the bar, the system is less than ideal.
 
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