I've been reading this forum in the past days (from about page 480) and I'm really surprised of the stuff I've read, but I'm going to explain my thought because I'm sure there's more folks that think like me. First of all, so people know what my opinion is based on, I'm a PES fan since the very begining on Playstation, and I always considered FIFA a piece of garbage. I loved PES 6 (or 5, I don't remeber which one was it because I had all of them), I think the best football game ever made. I loved the gameplay (not perfect, but almost), the editing possibilities, and the Master League. My goal was always to make a winning team with only the fake young players that would come every season, making them evolve game after game.
All that said, I feel extremely disappointed with PES and Konami nowadays. Yeah, PES 2011 is a big improvement from the 2010 (that was a joke of a game), but still is veeeeery far from what it should be. And I'm not talking about the gameplay, which I would say is pretty good... when the game works. And that's my bigest complain here. The game is FULL, FULL, FUUUUUULLLLL of flaws and glitches that ruin any good moments that you can have. It's truly unbelievable. I've had the game for 2 weeks now, and played it A LOT (mostly online), and I'm about to give up on it and return it. Why? A I said, all this flaws ruin most of the games you play in every aspect. The shooting system is a joke, any defender runs faster than any attacker, offside many times is called for a player that has nothing to do with the play, almost no rule of letting the play continue when you're attacking and you get fouled if you keep the ball's possesion, passing system works sometimes and others does completely weird passes, players stuck to the ground when fighting for a high ball (yeah, even when you press R2), players that you can't control because they're stuck in some sort of stupid animation, player switching (many people complain about it, but for me is not one of the worse flaws), players that simply don't react to your orders like shoot or pass or they react 1-2 seconds late... and these are the ones that I can remeber now, but there are a lot more.
All these things don't happen all the time, but they happen very often, TOO often, and many times decide matches. You can be doing super well in a match, controlling the game, having a lot of chances to score (and of course missing a lot, but we can assume that it's for realism), and then the opponent scores thanks to whatever flaw comes up in his almost only chance. This happens ALL THE TIME. And the same when you attack, many times you have the feeling that you're not controlling what is happening, or that the goal you just scored (even a nice one) is not what or how you intended to do. And all this just ruins the satisfaction even for winning.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, though not to the extent that the flaws in PES ruin the experience (yet). Everyone here who refuses to accept that shortcomings exist that are not all the fault of the gamer (I'm looking at you Klash) are simply deluded by fanboyism. PES 2011 is the best PES on the current gen systems, by far, but it's not come close to its potential. I'm still enjoying it but it has serious flaws.
So my general impression is that this game has been released too early, because seems that no one tested it before, and all this glitches and flaws should have been corrected before making people pay $60 or whatever currency is in every country. Yeah, there might be updates, but I seriously doubt that they're gonna fix any of this flaws with an update...
Funny, the EA forums are filled with comments like this. At least Konami have the excuse that they included a major overhaul to their game. FIFA is FULL of bugs and issues while also being a minimal upgrade over FIFA 10, and an arguably a worse game than the WC game as a whole.
And here comes the second point of my discussion. I'm really sorry to say this (it hurts deep inside), and I know the general opinion in this forum, but I have to be honest and say that FIFA 2011 is a better football game. I know it because I had for a week and returned it because I don't like the gameplay proposed in it, but I have to admit that FIFA's proposal is much better resolved than PES's proposal. They're different, yeah, and I like PES better, but all those flaws and glitches that I commented before almost don't exist in FIFA. The game itself is not as fun as PES 2011, I particularly hated how boring games turned out, with very few goal chances, but when you play it, it feels solid, accurate, responsive... unlike PES 2011. And I'm not saying it's perfect (as I said I returned it), but it has a better finished football proposal.
And here's where you and I completely diverge. FIFA 11's gameplay is a joke. It is a farce of a football game. Yes, it is fun. Yes, the controls are responsive and intuitive. But FIFA lacks the fundamentals, the depth, and maybe most importantly, the overall balance in gameplay that PES has nailed pretty well.
On fundamentals, football is a game of footwork, duh. I've been collecting a number of replay clips that I'll be using to make this point in detail on the other side of the forums, but the more you pay attention to the footwork in FIFA the more you realize how unrealistic and physics-defying the movement in the game is. You may think it has little bearing to the overall gameplay experience but if you pay close attention to how players move in FIFA you'll see that it resembles nothing like the real life game. Honestly, I can barely play the game at the moment after compiling this collection of replays, it's that bad.
On depth, I won't even go into this 'cause it should be obvious to a PES fan, but let's just say ALL games are the same. No variety at the micro or macro levels.
On balance, this is where FIFA is frustrating me to no end. The game is over-physical and over-defensive. The off-the-ball animations are so beyond the realm of real world physics that players make tackles, movements, and runs that defy physics. The defensive animations are such a joke that I've now gotten to the point where I never press a single button on defense unless it's absolutely necessary, which is never. The auto-tackling is so overpowered dribblers stand no chance. PES at least feels like football, the ebb and flow is correct, etc. FIFA is unbalanced in key areas all over the pitch. It's a joke. Fun, but not realistic. But FIFA is selling like hot-cakes because it does a phenomenal job of giving the visual illusion of realism and authenticity.
Despite its flaws does anyone else feel this game is underrated? the more I play the more I fall in love as pathetic as that sounds, the controls are so subtle and the manual passing has helped the game so much. I have slated pes the last few years but the feeling of the last gen games is back for me, honestly this is no honeymoon period, I have already had to replace one broken pad due to ML rage I just feel gamers are not giving this a chance. I have been a member of PESGAMING for 6 years and I am surprised by some of the negative comments. I am not being a fanboy or anything or trying to convince people I just feel people underestimate how deep the controls of this game actually are.
No way. A great, deep game that is deeply flawed. Many of us hardcore fans are willing to put up with the flaws but I totally understand why so many are still put-off by PES on the next gen. I do think they are really, really close, and if they are smart in how they spend this year, PES 2012 could be the solid all-round.
Really
This is the issue for me, people overrate themselves! They think because they were good at PES6 that everything should just fall into place for them. They aren't willing to understand the game, it's very clear your not one of those people looking for a sim, more just a fun smooth game!
And Klash you overrate the game. At some point you gotta recognize that this game's got its flaws. You look in every forum and there's similar comments, made by people that
want to love the game. FIFA forums everywhere aren't full of people complaining about the controls or the animations, but other things and for good reason. It's the same with PES 2011 - if so many people have problems with the controls and animations, then the game has issues with controls and animations. Simple as that. Even if a select minority of elite PES gamers such as yourselves have mastered the controls, if so many others do have issues, then it's a problem. That's just simple business and something Konami would be stupid not to address.
The game is totally different and far deeper than PES6 ever was. You simply can't play it in the same way you did other football games, you need to re learn it from scratch!
You comment on the shooting especially shows this, your obviously not paying attention to your players body position when shooting, with he passing again, are you checking your players stat on who's good or bad at passing, how consistent is he, what is his stronger foot? It's not PES6 anymore where you just plug in and play!
Klash, football is football man, it's really not that complicated. Just because people take issue with the game doesn't mean they don't "get it." Dude, you're basically calling everyone who doesn't like the game stupid or incompetent. But it may just be that the game isn't perfect.
. I loved the defending in the demo, I thought it was close to being the best part of the game. That illusion what shattered when I found you could just run into people and take the ball, and just as I feared it gets abused online.
