PES 2011 Discussion thread

[Ern Dog]

I thought that FIFA10 was the most frustrating online experience yet, PES2011 tops that by some margin but only because the game is soo good that it is annoying not to be able to play it properly.
Why oh why would you spend time working on a brand new defensive mechanic which works very well and make it useless by having a ball seeking homing button? This combined with the stupid way of fixing PES2010s problems of superfast attackers by having players with a turbo boost when chasing the ball carrier is stupefying. I am sick to death of playing people that seem to have taped their X and square buttons down and when they loose the ball swarm your player and take it back by just holding down a button. Then combine that with lag which however small has a detrimental effect on your ability to maneuver around the pressing players. Also a lazily implemented stamina system which someone showed works not by player preformance but time, so the FKers can do this for 90 mins. Add all this up and you have a recipie for game breaking.
Thankfully not all online games are bad but I would guess that atleast 50% of ramdom encounters suffer from this. I just dont understand the thinking at Konami, they always have a way of doing something that has the potential to ruin their games.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

Despite its flaws does anyone else feel this game is underrated? the more I play the more I fall in love as pathetic as that sounds, the controls are so subtle and the manual passing has helped the game so much. I have slated pes the last few years but the feeling of the last gen games is back for me, honestly this is no honeymoon period, I have already had to replace one broken pad due to ML rage I just feel gamers are not giving this a chance. I have been a member of PESGAMING for 6 years and I am surprised by some of the negative comments. I am not being a fanboy or anything or trying to convince people I just feel people underestimate how deep the controls of this game actually are.

 

[Ern Dog]

all this flaws ruin most of the games you play in every aspect. The shooting system is a joke, passing system works sometimes and others does completely weird passes, players stuck to the ground when fighting for a high ball (yeah, even when you press R2), players that you can't control because they're stuck in some sort of stupid animation, players that simply don't react to your orders like shoot or pass or they react 1-2 seconds late... and these are the ones that I can remeber now, but there are a lot more.

All these things don't happen all the time, but they happen very often, TOO often, and many times decide matches. You can be doing super well in a match, controlling the game, having a lot of chances to score (and of course missing a lot, but we can assume that it's for realism), and then the opponent scores thanks to whatever flaw comes up in his almost only chance. This happens ALL THE TIME. And the same when you attack, many times you have the feeling that you're not controlling what is happening, or that the goal you just scored (even a nice one) is not what or how you intended to do. And all this just ruins the satisfaction even for winning.

Edit: actually that thing about not being able to control players because they are stuck in an animation, there is one side step move thing where this happens.

So my general impression is that this game has been released too early, because seems that no one tested it before, and all this glitches and flaws should have been corrected before making people pay $60 or whatever currency is in every country. Yeah, there might be updates, but I seriously doubt that they're gonna fix any of this flaws with an update...

I Have played PES2011 and only PES2011 since the demo was released a week early on Playstation Plus, thats alot of hours spent playing this game. I agree with nothing you have written here especially that which I have put in bold BUT after playing the demo for a few days would of agreed with shooting being crap.
I would suggest stop playing online and hammer the offline game, if you suffer from any lag the online game plays nothing like it and will slow the learning curve.

Edit: actually that bit about not being able to control players stuck in an animation, there is one stupid side step move where this happens and it is very annoying.

 

[Ern Dog]

Despite its flaws does anyone else feel this game is underrated? the more I play the more I fall in love as pathetic as that sounds, the controls are so subtle and the manual passing has helped the game so much. I have slated pes the last few years but the feeling of the last gen games is back for me, honestly this is no honeymoon period, I have already had to replace one broken pad due to ML rage I just feel gamers are not giving this a chance. I have been a member of PESGAMING for 6 years and I am surprised by some of the negative comments. I am not being a fanboy or anything or trying to convince people I just feel people underestimate how deep the controls of this game actually are.

Its a fantastic game and probably because of Konamis track record on next gen people arent giving it a fair go, which is ashame because the game needs to be given time to really 'get it'.

 

[goalgerd]

Cheers, getting the balance between having forward that don’t lose ground to slow defenders and keeping the game balanced is probably the hardest thing. Fortunately increasing the AI so they have far less chances to sprint threw on goal and slowing the passing down to a realistic rate seems to do the trick.
The French league and Dutch league are almost done. Not sure if I will do the championship or other European teams next

if you fancy taking a break from it let me know,ive eveything i need to fix the errors ive found on my side and it would only take a couple of days to fix before i could send it back to you to continue

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

Its a fantastic game and probably because of Konamis track record on next gen people arent giving it a fair go, which is ashame because the game needs to be given time to really 'get it'.

Lets just hope KONAMI stick to their convictions and don't dumb the game down because of a few complaints.

 

[Ern Dog]

Sorry for the glut of posts but while im in a ranting mood another thing that really annoys me online are the tricks being mapped to a simple push of the stick. I get plenty of tits abusing this, they are soo effective at getting space some people constanly use them in tight situations. This is another move by Konami that baffles the mind, you have the abilty to manually do these tricks and the dexterity needed to do them sucsessfully is a good deterrent for the potential abuse. I like the tricks they add to the game and are very useful but just being able to press a stick in a direction to preform them makes them cheap, especially the damn rainbow flick which ise perfect to avoid tackles and hit a rocket of a volley.

 

[sincover]

Its a fantastic game and probably because of Konamis track record on next gen people arent giving it a fair go, which is ashame because the game needs to be given time to really 'get it'.

/agree. It is a great but very flawed game. I've put over 85 hours into it (which is monumental for me) and I thoroughly enjoyed 60% of the time i've spent with it. That being said I think lebert's criticisms are fair (although I disagree with his conclusion). There are problems with PES 2011's design choices that can lead to lots of frustration. While some may like the challenge of delving deep into the game and overcoming the frustrations, most people will simply put the controller down and never pick it up again. The PES formula needs more tweaking (without removing things that work) to provide different layers of entertainment. Enjoyment for casuals that only play a couple games a week, while keeping the depth that PES is known for. Like it or not, casual fans just can't (or don't want to) spend >85 hours 'getting it'.

 

[lebert]

I Have played PES2011 and only PES2011 since the demo was released a week early on Playstation Plus, thats alot of hours spent playing this game. I agree with nothing you have written here(except stupid fast defenders and refs advantage) I have put in bold BUT after playing the demo for a few days would of agreed with the problems not put in bold.
I would suggest stop playing online and hammer the offline game, if you suffer from any lag the online game plays nothing like it and will slow the learning curve.

Yeah you spent a lot of hours! But so did I. And believe me, I can consider myself a football game expert (I know how it sounds, but the amount of hours I've spent playing football games in my life is uncountable), and I know how to handle this kind of games. Maybe the things that I mention don't happen to you (which I seriously doubt, and I don't think it's an online game problem, but I'll give it a try), but all those things don't happen in FIFA, or barely happen. In PES 2010 there's no match that I don't see many of these, or all of these. I'll try the offline Master League and see, but I'm waiting for a good optionfile for the US game. Anyways, it's not the same, I find it much more challenging playing against other players (even the ones that "cheat", I love beating them), but this game ruins this experience. Among the goals I concede, easily 80% come directly from a flaw in the game. And I don't think it's a lag problem, because when there's lag you can easily tell, and most of the games I play I would say they're almost lag-less.

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, when this game "works", it's pretty cool (still faaaaaaaar from what it should be, but cool). It just feels unfinished. And my comparison with FIFA is just to point out that a flaw-less football game can be made, it's just a matter of testing and fixing, something that Konami barely did.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

/agree. It is a great but very flawed game. I've put over 85 hours into it (which is monumental for me) and I thoroughly enjoyed 60% of the time i've spent with it. That being said I think lebert's criticisms are fair (although I disagree with his conclusion). There are problems with PES 2011's design choices that can lead to lots of frustration. While some may like the challenge of delving deep into the game and overcoming the frustrations, most people will simply put the controller down and never pick it up again. The PES formula needs more tweaking (without removing things that work) to provide different layers of entertainment. Enjoyment for casuals that only play a couple games a week, while keeping the depth that PES is known for. Like it or not, casual fans just can't (or don't want to) spend >85 hours 'getting it'.

I cant help having the arrogant attidue that these casual gamers will eventually drag games down to an overly simplistic level, I do see your point and sometimes PES can get lost under its controls, maybe they aren't intuitive enough...

 

[Ern Dog]

Lets just hope KONAMI stick to their convictions and don't dumb the game down because of a few complaints.

I hope they dont, I would like it to be more difficult. They have still made the game accessible to the casual with crap like holding down X and square to take the ball, mapping tricks to a simple push of a stick and making the passing a little too forgiving. The pressing needs to be like PES5, the tricks should not be mapped to the stick and the passing should be as unforgiving as the shooting.

 

[klashman69]

Yeah you spent a lot of hours! But so did I. And believe me, I can consider myself a football game expert

The shooting system is a joke,

Really

This is the issue for me, people overrate themselves! They think because they were good at PES6 that everything should just fall into place for them. They aren't willing to understand the game, it's very clear your not one of those people looking for a sim, more just a fun smooth game!

The game is totally different and far deeper than PES6 ever was. You simply can't play it in the same way you did other football games, you need to re learn it from scratch!

You comment on the shooting especially shows this, your obviously not paying attention to your players body position when shooting, with he passing again, are you checking your players stat on who's good or bad at passing, how consistent is he, what is his stronger foot? It's not PES6 anymore where you just plug in and play!

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

I hope they dont, I would like it to be more difficult. They have still made the game accessible to the casual with crap like holding down X and square to take the ball, mapping tricks to a simple push of a stick and making the passing a little too forgiving. The pressing needs to be like PES5, the tricks should not be mapped to the stick and the passing should be as unforgiving as the shooting.

I dont like the default passing which is why I use manual, default passing is far to easy on pes 2011. The pressing is abit fifaish for my taste but I still think defending takes some level of skill.

 

[ilfenomeno]

is it possible to play ML with a friend?

possible?

 

[Ern Dog]

Yeah you spent a lot of hours! But so did I. And believe me, I can consider myself a football game expert (I know how it sounds, but the amount of hours I've spent playing football games in my life is uncountable), and I know how to handle this kind of games. Maybe the things that I mention don't happen to you (which I seriously doubt, and I don't think it's an online game problem, but I'll give it a try), but all those things don't happen in FIFA, or barely happen. In PES 2010 there's no match that I don't see many of these, or all of these. I'll try the offline Master League and see, but I'm waiting for a good optionfile for the US game. Anyways, it's not the same, I find it much more challenging playing against other players (even the ones that "cheat", I love beating them), but this game ruins this experience. Among the goals I concede, easily 80% come directly from a flaw in the game. And I don't think it's a lag problem, because when there's lag you can easily tell, and most of the games I play I would say they're almost lag-less.

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, when this game "works", it's pretty cool (still faaaaaaaar from what it should be, but cool). It just feels unfinished. And my comparison with FIFA is just to point out that a flaw-less football game can be made, it's just a matter of testing and fixing, something that Konami barely did.

I edited my post mate, I do agree with some of what you say but things like the passing being inconsistent, players stuck to the floor and crap response times are not and never have been an issue in my experience.
I would say that of the goals I concede easily 80% come directly from a mistake I have made and none, well maybe some from crap player switching, from a flaw in the game.
If you are getting lag free games I am very jealous, if I play guys on my friends list they are often very good but playing random people from all over europe it is often laggy.
Its all very well saying FIFA has none of these problems mate but dont say that its a flawless game, I have been on FIFA forums and know from what FIFA players in here say that its far from the truth.
Apart from the things I have already whinged about in the previous few posts and a few other small issues the game is pretty much perfect in my opinion.

 

[Ern Dog]

I dont like the default passing which is why I use manual, default passing is far to easy on pes 2011. The pressing is abit fifaish for my taste but I still think defending takes some level of skill.

Defending does take skill to do correctly, using the pressing to move your players to close down space, using the new system to stand off the man in possession, track him and wait for the right time to stick a leg in, its great. Shame you can just hold down a button and bypass all that though . I loved the defending in the demo, I thought it was close to being the best part of the game. That illusion what shattered when I found you could just run into people and take the ball, and just as I feared it gets abused online.
Like I said earlier why develop such a good system and then negate it with an autotackle button?

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

Defending does take skill to do correctly, using the pressing to move your players to close down space, using the new system to stand off the man in possession, track him and wait for the right time to stick a leg in, its great. Shame you can just hold down a button and bypass all that though . I loved the defending in the demo, I thought it was close to being the best part of the game. That illusion what shattered when I found you could just run into people and take the ball, and just as I feared it gets abused online.
Like I said earlier why develop such a good system and then negate it with an autotackle button?

It is strange, I would have thought KONAMI would have wanted to show off the new system and in a sense force people to use the new techniques. I'm still finding it tough not to hold the sprint button down all the time as that can reduce your chances of winning the ball, especially when the AI decides to play one of its laser guided through balls.

 

[Ern Dog]

Really

This is the issue for me, people overrate themselves! They think because they were good at PES6 that everything should just fall into place for them. They aren't willing to understand the game, it's very clear your not one of those people looking for a sim, more just a fun smooth game!

The game is totally different and far deeper than PES6 ever was. You simply can't play it in the same way you did other football games, you need to re learn it from scratch!

You comment on the shooting especially shows this, your obviously not paying attention to your players body position when shooting, with he passing again, are you checking your players stat on who's good or bad at passing, how consistent is he, what is his stronger foot? It's not PES6 anymore where you just plug in and play!

You know I have written up posts like this in the past but deleted them because I thought it made me sound like a A hole, no offense.
I do agree though, this game has sorted the men from the boys, the guys that THOUGHT they knew how to play PES and the guys that DID know. I think this applies to PES2010 also and is why you see many, many people saying "I loved PES on last gen but now its just crap, FIFA is better", PES on last gen is roughly what FIFA is now, its an easy and very playable football game. PES now requires more thought because like you said, if your body position is wrong or balance is off or some other variable, that pass, shot or movement you attempted aint gonna happen. It still had some effect in old PES games, I remember when I figured all this out in PES5 combined with playing to players stats I was nearly unbeatable, but PES is now much more unforgiving and if you didnt understand this before your in for a rough ride.

Im not saying this is your problem though lebert.

 

[Rob92]

Played one of my mates on PES 2011 today who I used to play hours and hours of PES5 and 6 with... I won 6-0, 4-0, 5-1 and 3-0 before he got pissed off and we decided to play co-op instead.

He's one of those people who sprints everywhere, tries to score long range screamers all the time, uses loads of tricks, loves the chipped through ball and doesn't bother much with tactics...
We were almost equal on the old PES games, me perhaps winning slightly more games than him, but the tactical options and gameplay of 2011 combined with the responsiveness of the game offline means I am very much at an advantage playing a more considered and tactical game.

I agree with Ern Dog, PES was VERY easy on last-gen compared to how it is now, probably why some people still don't regard 2011 as highly as PES5 or 6...

 

[Ern Dog]

/agree. It is a great but very flawed game. I've put over 85 hours into it (which is monumental for me) and I thoroughly enjoyed 60% of the time i've spent with it. That being said I think lebert's criticisms are fair (although I disagree with his conclusion). There are problems with PES 2011's design choices that can lead to lots of frustration. While some may like the challenge of delving deep into the game and overcoming the frustrations, most people will simply put the controller down and never pick it up again. The PES formula needs more tweaking (without removing things that work) to provide different layers of entertainment. Enjoyment for casuals that only play a couple games a week, while keeping the depth that PES is known for. Like it or not, casual fans just can't (or don't want to) spend >85 hours 'getting it'.

The only solution is for a 'arcade' and a 'sim' mode to be implemented. I remember a game on the PS2 called MX Unleashed that had 'normal' and 'pro' physics in the options. If you wanted to just press buttons and race a bike you could or you could enable the pro physics and have a more difficult and realistic game.

 

[klashman69]

You know I have written up posts like this in the past but deleted them because I thought it made me sound like a A hole, no offense.
I do agree though, this game has sorted the men from the boys, the guys that THOUGHT they knew how to play PES and the guys that DID know. I think this applies to PES2010 also and is why you see many, many people saying "I loved PES on last gen but now its just crap, FIFA is better", PES on last gen is roughly what FIFA is now, its an easy and very playable football game. PES now requires more thought because like you said, if your body position is wrong or balance is off or some other variable, that pass, shot or movement you attempted aint gonna happen. It still had some effect in old PES games, I remember when I figured all this out in PES5 combined with playing to players stats I was nearly unbeatable, but PES is now much more unforgiving and if you didnt understand this before your in for a rough ride.

Im not saying this is your problem though lebert.

I don't really know how else to say this though

 

[klashman69]

I agree with Ern Dog, PES was VERY easy on last-gen compared to how it is now, probably why some people still don't regard 2011 as highly as PES5 or 6...

I remember going back to PES6 because of all the patches here, and there earlier this year. I stopped after three games. The first i tested Barca vs Manchester united. I was 6-0 up int he first half on top player!

Started playing with the Czech's vs an assortment of teams, it was just well, boring... Played against Argentina and i couldn't have been more disappointed with Messi who did fuck all! He was a passenger!

Some of the scripted long range goals aswell, just put the game down and didn't go back when i scored from 40 yards with ratface so easily! it didn't have that personality that Even the highly broken and unfinished PES 2010 had, let alone PES 2011!

PES6 is i agree similar in many ways to the New fifa games. I believe FIFA now is a dubbed down tactically, personality lacking glossier version of PES 6!

I also find it hilarious just the sheer amount complaining about the game haven't come anywhere near to mastering it!

 

[jcvf90]

Played one of my mates on PES 2011 today who I used to play hours and hours of PES5 and 6 with... I won 6-0, 4-0, 5-1 and 3-0 before he got pissed off and we decided to play co-op instead.

He's one of those people who sprints everywhere, tries to score long range screamers all the time, uses loads of tricks, loves the chipped through ball and doesn't bother much with tactics...
We were almost equal on the old PES games, me perhaps winning slightly more games than him, but the tactical options and gameplay of 2011 combined with the responsiveness of the game offline means I am very much at an advantage playing a more considered and tactical game.

I agree with Ern Dog, PES was VERY easy on last-gen compared to how it is now, probably why some people still don't regard 2011 as highly as PES5 or 6...

To cement this theory as fact :p I Still have PES 6 installed on my PC (mostly because I love playing in the Honduran National stadium) and boy is it alot like current gen FIFA. Its smooth and its fast, not that it does not have its intricacies, but it is very good to non football minds.

I recently had my cousin, who is a FIFA player, he is about 14 years old go at it with me on PES 6 at first. We had some crazy good game, but mostly because he has that fifa mentality. We went to PES 2011 after that. It was a thrashing.

I don't mess with the tactics much before a game, mostly because I like to adapt to the tactics the team employs. Later depending on the circumstances, I go in and make the required changes.

My dad on the other hand, he has always been a good PES player, mainly due to his understanding of individuality, he know what players are good at and uses them with said purpose. We've had some epic battles.

Most of my friends currently play fifa. The say that it looks better and it has more teams, even though they rare go away from using ManU, Madrid, Inter etc...

 

[mfmaxpower]

I've been reading this forum in the past days (from about page 480) and I'm really surprised of the stuff I've read, but I'm going to explain my thought because I'm sure there's more folks that think like me. First of all, so people know what my opinion is based on, I'm a PES fan since the very begining on Playstation, and I always considered FIFA a piece of garbage. I loved PES 6 (or 5, I don't remeber which one was it because I had all of them), I think the best football game ever made. I loved the gameplay (not perfect, but almost), the editing possibilities, and the Master League. My goal was always to make a winning team with only the fake young players that would come every season, making them evolve game after game.

All that said, I feel extremely disappointed with PES and Konami nowadays. Yeah, PES 2011 is a big improvement from the 2010 (that was a joke of a game), but still is veeeeery far from what it should be. And I'm not talking about the gameplay, which I would say is pretty good... when the game works. And that's my bigest complain here. The game is FULL, FULL, FUUUUUULLLLL of flaws and glitches that ruin any good moments that you can have. It's truly unbelievable. I've had the game for 2 weeks now, and played it A LOT (mostly online), and I'm about to give up on it and return it. Why? A I said, all this flaws ruin most of the games you play in every aspect. The shooting system is a joke, any defender runs faster than any attacker, offside many times is called for a player that has nothing to do with the play, almost no rule of letting the play continue when you're attacking and you get fouled if you keep the ball's possesion, passing system works sometimes and others does completely weird passes, players stuck to the ground when fighting for a high ball (yeah, even when you press R2), players that you can't control because they're stuck in some sort of stupid animation, player switching (many people complain about it, but for me is not one of the worse flaws), players that simply don't react to your orders like shoot or pass or they react 1-2 seconds late... and these are the ones that I can remeber now, but there are a lot more.

All these things don't happen all the time, but they happen very often, TOO often, and many times decide matches. You can be doing super well in a match, controlling the game, having a lot of chances to score (and of course missing a lot, but we can assume that it's for realism), and then the opponent scores thanks to whatever flaw comes up in his almost only chance. This happens ALL THE TIME. And the same when you attack, many times you have the feeling that you're not controlling what is happening, or that the goal you just scored (even a nice one) is not what or how you intended to do. And all this just ruins the satisfaction even for winning.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, though not to the extent that the flaws in PES ruin the experience (yet). Everyone here who refuses to accept that shortcomings exist that are not all the fault of the gamer (I'm looking at you Klash) are simply deluded by fanboyism. PES 2011 is the best PES on the current gen systems, by far, but it's not come close to its potential. I'm still enjoying it but it has serious flaws.

So my general impression is that this game has been released too early, because seems that no one tested it before, and all this glitches and flaws should have been corrected before making people pay $60 or whatever currency is in every country. Yeah, there might be updates, but I seriously doubt that they're gonna fix any of this flaws with an update...

Funny, the EA forums are filled with comments like this. At least Konami have the excuse that they included a major overhaul to their game. FIFA is FULL of bugs and issues while also being a minimal upgrade over FIFA 10, and an arguably a worse game than the WC game as a whole.

And here comes the second point of my discussion. I'm really sorry to say this (it hurts deep inside), and I know the general opinion in this forum, but I have to be honest and say that FIFA 2011 is a better football game. I know it because I had for a week and returned it because I don't like the gameplay proposed in it, but I have to admit that FIFA's proposal is much better resolved than PES's proposal. They're different, yeah, and I like PES better, but all those flaws and glitches that I commented before almost don't exist in FIFA. The game itself is not as fun as PES 2011, I particularly hated how boring games turned out, with very few goal chances, but when you play it, it feels solid, accurate, responsive... unlike PES 2011. And I'm not saying it's perfect (as I said I returned it), but it has a better finished football proposal.

And here's where you and I completely diverge. FIFA 11's gameplay is a joke. It is a farce of a football game. Yes, it is fun. Yes, the controls are responsive and intuitive. But FIFA lacks the fundamentals, the depth, and maybe most importantly, the overall balance in gameplay that PES has nailed pretty well.

On fundamentals, football is a game of footwork, duh. I've been collecting a number of replay clips that I'll be using to make this point in detail on the other side of the forums, but the more you pay attention to the footwork in FIFA the more you realize how unrealistic and physics-defying the movement in the game is. You may think it has little bearing to the overall gameplay experience but if you pay close attention to how players move in FIFA you'll see that it resembles nothing like the real life game. Honestly, I can barely play the game at the moment after compiling this collection of replays, it's that bad.

On depth, I won't even go into this 'cause it should be obvious to a PES fan, but let's just say ALL games are the same. No variety at the micro or macro levels.

On balance, this is where FIFA is frustrating me to no end. The game is over-physical and over-defensive. The off-the-ball animations are so beyond the realm of real world physics that players make tackles, movements, and runs that defy physics. The defensive animations are such a joke that I've now gotten to the point where I never press a single button on defense unless it's absolutely necessary, which is never. The auto-tackling is so overpowered dribblers stand no chance. PES at least feels like football, the ebb and flow is correct, etc. FIFA is unbalanced in key areas all over the pitch. It's a joke. Fun, but not realistic. But FIFA is selling like hot-cakes because it does a phenomenal job of giving the visual illusion of realism and authenticity.

Despite its flaws does anyone else feel this game is underrated? the more I play the more I fall in love as pathetic as that sounds, the controls are so subtle and the manual passing has helped the game so much. I have slated pes the last few years but the feeling of the last gen games is back for me, honestly this is no honeymoon period, I have already had to replace one broken pad due to ML rage I just feel gamers are not giving this a chance. I have been a member of PESGAMING for 6 years and I am surprised by some of the negative comments. I am not being a fanboy or anything or trying to convince people I just feel people underestimate how deep the controls of this game actually are.

No way. A great, deep game that is deeply flawed. Many of us hardcore fans are willing to put up with the flaws but I totally understand why so many are still put-off by PES on the next gen. I do think they are really, really close, and if they are smart in how they spend this year, PES 2012 could be the solid all-round.

Really

This is the issue for me, people overrate themselves! They think because they were good at PES6 that everything should just fall into place for them. They aren't willing to understand the game, it's very clear your not one of those people looking for a sim, more just a fun smooth game!

And Klash you overrate the game. At some point you gotta recognize that this game's got its flaws. You look in every forum and there's similar comments, made by people that want to love the game. FIFA forums everywhere aren't full of people complaining about the controls or the animations, but other things and for good reason. It's the same with PES 2011 - if so many people have problems with the controls and animations, then the game has issues with controls and animations. Simple as that. Even if a select minority of elite PES gamers such as yourselves have mastered the controls, if so many others do have issues, then it's a problem. That's just simple business and something Konami would be stupid not to address.

The game is totally different and far deeper than PES6 ever was. You simply can't play it in the same way you did other football games, you need to re learn it from scratch!

You comment on the shooting especially shows this, your obviously not paying attention to your players body position when shooting, with he passing again, are you checking your players stat on who's good or bad at passing, how consistent is he, what is his stronger foot? It's not PES6 anymore where you just plug in and play!

Klash, football is football man, it's really not that complicated. Just because people take issue with the game doesn't mean they don't "get it." Dude, you're basically calling everyone who doesn't like the game stupid or incompetent. But it may just be that the game isn't perfect.

 

[klashman69]

Most of my friends currently play fifa. The say that it looks better and it has more teams, even though they rare go away from using ManU, Madrid, Inter etc...

Another hilarious thing where people will choose fifa for the teams and licenses! Yet still won't even know who teams like Wolfsburg and Dortmund are!

Crazy isn't it!

 

[klashman69]

And Klash you overrate the game. At some point you gotta recognize that this game's got its flaws.

I don't understand, why do keep ignoring my posts where i say the game can improve? Read this post here:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2110310&postcount=55
and stop this whole witch hunt! You seem to think i don't want PES 2011 to get new animtions and fluidity, i do but most of these complainers don't even embrace the game properly so why should konami ditch the work they made now in place for a FIFA clone?

Didn't you read that pm i sent you! Didn't you realize the guy you agreed with about PES 2011 not being great and finished wanted a 'good all round fluid game' rather than a 'sim' which i want?

This sounds horrible but I'm starting to really wonder just how much you rally understand about the dynamics of football! I thinking that's probably why your not seeing the things i am! You keep going on about needing the manual feeling which is highly overrated imo. Since the manual feeling takes away the need for stats!

You look in every forum and there's similar comments, made by people that want to love the game. FIFA forums everywhere aren't full of people complaining about the controls or the animations, but other things and for good reason. It's the same with PES 2011 - if so many people have problems with the controls and animations, then the game has issues with controls and animations. Simple as that.

and if everyone of these people complaining aren't very good at the game and expected the game to play out like PES6! Also if many of these people complaining keep going on about PES6 and how that game was better. You will see there are a awful lot of people approaching the game in the complete wrong way!

I think your forget there were MANY people who played PES over FIFA int he PS2 era because PES was a far better all round game than FIFA. FIFA was painful easy, controls weren't intuitive it was in short a pretty bullshit game back then. I played it all the time because of the licenses but PES destroyed in pretty much every department except licenses!

PES was a lot more gamer friendly back then! Compared to what it is now. Many people who THINK they are playing the game in a 'simultion' style are in fact just gamers who are saying it because they have misinterpreted that 'good, fluid fun' = 'sim'! That's not the case is it!

It was because FIFA now is a better 'all round' game! This is why i disagree, these guys want PES to be a fluid game without having to worry about tactics or individuality! What's the point? FIFA has the animations card! Have you seen the sheer amount of people who judge the two solely on animations?

Even if a select minority of elite PES gamers such as yourselves have mastered the controls, if so many others do have issues, then it's a problem.

and if you saw my reply! Understood what exactly he was saying! He says he's a "PES master". Yet he dosen't like the shooting! It's simple why he dosen't like the shooting, he just wants PES6 back! Haven't you stopped to think these guys aren't trying t play and understand what PES 2011 does and instead what it to be something it's not!

 

[romagnoli]

Getting really annoyed with it now in MLO. Bollocks is this game perfectly balanced. It's chock full of 5-1-4, 4-1-5, 4-3-0-0-0-1-2 etc formations. They obviously work otherwise they wouldn't be so prevalent. This wandering fullback issue is a massive part of it, along with the pressuring still being too effective and the stamina being fixed. I've been mucking about with sliders all day but my BAL workrate fullback just won't stay on his man.

The game is still very good but when you look at it objectively there are definitely things that really need improving. As I've said a couple of times now, PES is at it's best when you're in control and at it's worst when you aren't.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Played one of my mates on PES 2011 today who I used to play hours and hours of PES5 and 6 with... I won 6-0, 4-0, 5-1 and 3-0 before he got pissed off and we decided to play co-op instead.

He's one of those people who sprints everywhere, tries to score long range screamers all the time, uses loads of tricks, loves the chipped through ball and doesn't bother much with tactics...
We were almost equal on the old PES games, me perhaps winning slightly more games than him, but the tactical options and gameplay of 2011 combined with the responsiveness of the game offline means I am very much at an advantage playing a more considered and tactical game.

I agree with Ern Dog, PES was VERY easy on last-gen compared to how it is now, probably why some people still don't regard 2011 as highly as PES5 or 6...

The only solution is for a 'arcade' and a 'sim' mode to be implemented. I remember a game on the PS2 called MX Unleashed that had 'normal' and 'pro' physics in the options. If you wanted to just press buttons and race a bike you could or you could enable the pro physics and have a more difficult and realistic game.

Yeah but there's a massive difference between difficulty due to non-intuitive controls, unresponsiveness, lack of control, etc. VS difficulty because gameplay concepts are deep and hard to master. The problem I see people complain about, like lebert, tend to be the former, not the latter. PES fans are PES fans because of the latter. There are loads of people out there looking for a deeper experience than FIFA but aren't satisfied with what PES has to offer.

Comparing the current football games - current games in general - head to head with previous gen games is pointless - most games were of course easier then, when you had 8 directions of movement and didn't have realistic physics.

People don't regard 2011 as highly as PES5/6 not because the older games were easier - though surely accessibility, e.g. intuitive controls, are an issue - but because when you consider gaming potential on the current gen of systems, PES still hasn't fulfilled its potential. When you look around and consider what gaming has achieved these last few years, PES isn't up to par. It's real, real close though.

 

[romagnoli]

PES won't split into arcade and sim. Otherwise they'd split manual and assisted controls as FIFA does. It's not how Konami roll.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

if you fancy taking a break from it let me know,ive eveything i need to fix the errors ive found on my side and it would only take a couple of days to fix before i could send it back to you to continue

OK.

I have finished the main bit of doing the french and dutch leagues. I just need to do some testing by playing games between the teams and tweaking it.

I will try to get it to you on tomorrow or saturday