PES 2011 Discussion thread

[pjft]

Yes it is - calm before the storm. Except for the looneys running in here every now and then to say stupid things then run off into the distance screaming something about Adam.

How's it going pjft? Last I heard you were on honeymoon.

Hi zeemeister! Everything's great here. Marriage is doing great, and after a sabbatical year from work to focus on Business School, I am now back to work (and finally with time to catch up with gaming). I'm currently playing 2010's Master League on my PS3, with Sporting, and enjoying it a lot, so of course it makes sense to join the PES hype train on Evo-Web

What about you mate?

Cheers,

Paulo Tavares

 

[romagnoli]

Manual passing in FIFA/WC isn't on rails. It's got a limited number of directions it can go in (though, as with the dribbling, it's still enough to feel pretty free) but it's the fact that curve is pretty much removed from the passing system that makes things feel more rigid than they could do. That, and of course the lack of any real context-and-player sensitive inaccuracy.

My hope is that PES at least has a very good stab at semi-manual (as opposed to semi-assisted) controls, and that it proves to be quite accessible for novices. As someone said earlier Konami will almost definitely make this a one-for-all control scheme so fingers crossed it will lead to more semi or manual FIFA players, and will prove that players can adapt to different control schemes fairly quickly.

 

[BillyBoy]

Manual passing in FIFA/WC isn't on rails. It's got a limited number of directions it can go in (though, as with the dribbling, it's still enough to feel pretty free) but it's the fact that curve is pretty much removed from the passing system that makes things feel more rigid than they could do. That, and of course the lack of any real context-and-player sensitive inaccuracy.

My hope is that PES at least has a very good stab at semi-manual (as opposed to semi-assisted) controls, and that it proves to be quite accessible for novices. As someone said earlier Konami will almost definitely make this a one-for-all control scheme so fingers crossed it will lead to more semi or manual FIFA players, and will prove that players can adapt to different control schemes fairly quickly.

I assume it would be closer to semi-manual/manual especially since it has 360 degree passing, shooting & crossing according to the press release. How many directions is FIFA's passing & shooting limited to?

 

[Expander]

Manual passing in FIFA/WC isn't on rails. It's got a limited number of directions it can go in (though, as with the dribbling, it's still enough to feel pretty free) but it's the fact that curve is pretty much removed from the passing system that makes things feel more rigid than they could do. That, and of course the lack of any real context-and-player sensitive inaccuracy.

My hope is that PES at least has a very good stab at semi-manual (as opposed to semi-assisted) controls, and that it proves to be quite accessible for novices. As someone said earlier Konami will almost definitely make this a one-for-all control scheme so fingers crossed it will lead to more semi or manual FIFA players, and will prove that players can adapt to different control schemes fairly quickly.

Good point,which ties into the power bar which should only ever act as a visual indicator that shouldnt replace the feel we the user should get from the thumbstick and are button commands and what happens physically on screen.I dont think im alone when i say i dont even look at the power bar after ive got the power ratio hardwired into my brain and how much pressure my fingers directly effect power.

For me its about konami capturing what they had in iss on the n64,a real sense of weight and inertia in the ball as well as the players,in which when your running or static there should be different amounts of kinectic energy in the ball with shots while sprinting tending to be overhit or overpowered,with greater accuracy in passing and shooting when the players have time,have controlled the ball and have there body and foot position correct.

Konami had a great passing and shooting system in place in those old n64 games,one which gave you total freedom of direction allowing you to lean forwards and backwards on the ball changing your centre of gravity which allowed elevation,backspin and top spin to be added the ball.You could spot crosses,through passes,shots,long passes precisely and different players stats effected the outcome which demonstrates you can have both(freedom of control and individuality).

 

[Expander]

I assume it would be closer to semi-manual/manual especially since it has 360 degree passing, shooting & crossing according to the press release. How many directions is FIFA's passing & shooting limited to?

Id say fifas is 16 way passing and shooting with 32 way(or axis)movement.The whole 360 degree term applies to the abilty to turn on a 360 degree circle and move anywhere(within reason)in that circle not 360 directions as some believe.

I might be wrong but im pretty sure the analog stick only allows you 32 directions of movement.

 

[Jamezinho]

Id say fifas is 16 way passing and shooting with 32 way(or axis)movement.The whole 360 degree term applies to the abilty to turn on a 360 degree circle and move anywhere(within reason)in that circle not 360 directions as some believe.

I might be wrong but im pretty sure the analog stick only allows you 32 directions of movement.

That's what I've always thought. The analogue stick doesn't feel sensitive enough to replicate full 360 degree movement, but has enough range of movement to give a pseudo-360 feel.

 

[final lap]

- The Edit Mode has been improved
- New and different ways to shoot depends by the position/posing and angle of the player
- More personal tricks by the "top players"

i can't say more because this is all they've passed me

Actually, the correct translation would be:

"The Edit Mode has been "expanded"", which would mean that you can now edit more things, or maybe have more slots for emblems and kits and even chants, faces, who knows (this is just my interpretation of it, please don't hold me to it).

"More technical gestures that recreate the stars" Sure this could mean special tricks for certain players, but it could also mean mannerisms, they way they run, stand, shoot, etc.

 

[romagnoli]

The passing is 64 way in FIFA. I can't remember what the jogging was meant to be but sprinting was 32.

I'd expect PES to be much the same, certainly passing-wise.

 

[Andr3]

My translation:

"-The edit mode has been "expanded"
-New and differents way's to shot according the angle and the position of the player
-More tricks that recreate the stars -> like finallap said.

I can't pass more information because that was they pass to me."

 

[Lami]

Thanks for the translations guys.

 

[Gab_]

That's what I've always thought. The analogue stick doesn't feel sensitive enough to replicate full 360 degree movement, but has enough range of movement to give a pseudo-360 feel.

What do you mean with this? The analogue stick can output all 360 degrees (I have programmed to it). Maybe I just misunderstand what you're saying.

And is the running really only 32 degrees in FIFA? I doubt it, I know I have been doing really tiny changes when sprinting too. It's only that you can only turn like 11.25 degrees maximum at the time, but you can still turn any degree between that. But since you will only turn when touching the ball it's pretty impossible to try to turn 1 degree at the time for example, unless you have amazingly steady thumbs.

About passing only being 64 directions I have no idea about. I guess it could be the case, I have never thought about testing it.

 

[Jamezinho]

What do you mean with this? The analogue stick can output all 360 degrees (I have programmed to it). Maybe I just misunderstand what you're saying.

And is the running really only 32 degrees in FIFA? I doubt it, I know I have been doing really tiny changes when sprinting too. It's only that you can only turn like 11.25 degrees maximum at the time, but you can still turn any degree between that. But since you will only turn when touching the ball it's pretty impossible to try to turn 1 degree at the time for example, unless you have amazingly steady thumbs.

About passing only being 64 directions I have no idea about. I guess it could be the case, I have never thought about testing it.

I've never feel that the analogue stick is sensitive enough to register all 360 degrees, but if you say it is then I stand corrected. It's probably more the case of games not making use of the full range of movement, for example Fifa is only 64 directions as Romagnoli mentioned above.

 

[Expander]

The passing is 64 way in FIFA. I can't remember what the jogging was meant to be but sprinting was 32.

I'd expect PES to be much the same, certainly passing-wise.

Theres no way fifas passing is 64 way nor is this limited to 32 directions when your sprinting.

Fifas passing and shooting is 16 way at most,and while you may be able to turn on a 360 degree circle your movements are limited to 32 directions and 16 directions while sprinting.

This is why passing isnt pinpoint accurate and the ai compensates by moving towards the ball if the player you are directing to is in a different axis then the one you direct your thumbstick.

It doesnt sound alot but it makes a huge difference over 8-axis movement,passing and shooting and gives the game a greater sense of freedom,but its a game your never going to have real life freedom plus real footballers movement becomes more limited with the ball at there feet as they have to touch the ball every time they turn.Games are about creating the lllusion that somethings more free then it is and currently fifa does this better then PES,because pes still uses d-pad dynamics mapped to the analog stick.

Pes has never taken advantage of true analog control like ISS on the n64 did which pioneered 32 way movement,passing and shooting in a football game.

Me im a analog man,although i do appreciate the merits and precise nature of the d-pad,it just limits what pes productions can do and is best suited to 2d games and beat-em ups not football games.This will change this year though true analog controls coming back and pes will be a better more open game for it.

 

[mjsmith2k]

 

[romagnoli]

I think passing is 64... I was told a while back by one of the devs but can't remember what the number was! Similarly with the movement. Even 32 directions would be enough for pretty subtle directional changes in dribbling.

Jamez I remember hooking up my PS2 pad up to my PC and going into the calibration options for the sticks; the amount of precision when plugged straight in like that is surprising. How much a game uses is another matter, but IMO it's the actual logistics of using a stick on a gamepad that is the limiting factor. We aren't looking at the stick; the pad moves around in our hands; you don't have specific points of orientation which tell you exactly where the stick is in the circle. It's not that sticks are inaccurate but that they aren't the absolute best fit for the job - there are too many little variables to stop you being clinically precise. You can still get damn good though with enough practice.

 

[Jamezinho]

I think passing is 64... I was told a while back by one of the devs but can't remember what the number was! Similarly with the movement. Even 32 directions would be enough for pretty subtle directional changes in dribbling.

Jamez I remember hooking up my PS2 pad up to my PC and going into the calibration options for the sticks; the amount of precision when plugged straight in like that is surprising. How much a game uses is another matter, but IMO it's the actual logistics of using a stick on a gamepad that is the limiting factor. We aren't looking at the stick; the pad moves around in our hands; you don't have specific points of orientation which tell you exactly where the stick is in the circle. It's not that sticks are inaccurate but that they aren't the absolute best fit for the job - there are too many little variables to stop you being clinically precise. You can still get damn good though with enough practice.

That's fair enough.

I agree with your point about 32 directions being enough for subtle changes in direction while dribbling. I think there is such a thing as being too 'free' i.e. full 360 degree dribbling could make the game feel a bit too intricate and less playable. Fifa09 was only really 8-directions for low speed dribbling yet the smoothness of the animations gave an illusion of more freedom.

 

[mr_man]

Man does it matter how many stupid directions you can turn the players in? They aint gonna put 42 directions(!) on the back of the box, 360 sounds better and hell, it´s good enough.

 

[Expander]

I think passing is 64... I was told a while back by one of the devs but can't remember what the number was! Similarly with the movement. Even 32 directions would be enough for pretty subtle directional changes in dribbling.

Jamez I remember hooking up my PS2 pad up to my PC and going into the calibration options for the sticks; the amount of precision when plugged straight in like that is surprising. How much a game uses is another matter, but IMO it's the actual logistics of using a stick on a gamepad that is the limiting factor. We aren't looking at the stick; the pad moves around in our hands; you don't have specific points of orientation which tell you exactly where the stick is in the circle. It's not that sticks are inaccurate but that they aren't the absolute best fit for the job - there are too many little variables to stop you being clinically precise. You can still get damn good though with enough practice.

Your right 32 directions is more then enough,it depends on the stick for accuracy with the ps3 thumbsticks even with there reduced dead zones maybe not being as accurate as the xbox360 ones,although i like the loose nature of the ps3 thumbsticks and find them as tight as anything else out there with practise and for me they have more feel.

Your never have a pad as good as the n64 one,those pads where beautifall.

 

[zeemeister]

Hi zeemeister! Everything's great here. Marriage is doing great, and after a sabbatical year from work to focus on Business School, I am now back to work (and finally with time to catch up with gaming). I'm currently playing 2010's Master League on my PS3, with Sporting, and enjoying it a lot, so of course it makes sense to join the PES hype train on Evo-Web

What about you mate?

Cheers,

Paulo Tavares

Good having you around. Exciting times for me I'm starting a new job next week. The world cup is kicking off here in 15 days time. I got me a ticket to the opener and 1/4 final just hoping I can afford a Semi ticket and I'll be happy. Else I'm playing FIFA WC more than any other FIFA in my life before and PES2011 is sounding like that next step for us so I'm on the hype train.

 

[romagnoli]

Theres no way fifas passing is 64 way nor is this limited to 32 directions when your sprinting.

Fifas passing and shooting is 16 way at most,and while you may be able to turn on a 360 degree circle your movements are limited to 32 directions and 16 directions while sprinting.

The passing is at least 32. In fact I think it is 32, because I remember thinking it was weird that they weren't going for more. It's way more precise than 16; that would be the same as all the directions you sprinted with the ball in old PES's ,including the intermediary touches.

 

[BillyBoy]

Good having you around. Exciting times for me I'm starting a new job next week. The world cup is kicking off here in 15 days time. I got me a ticket to the opener and 1/4 final just hoping I can afford a Semi ticket and I'll be happy. Else I'm playing FIFA WC more than any other FIFA in my life before and PES2011 is sounding like that next step for us so I'm on the hype train.

Man your so lucky! Have fun! I was going to go for the World Cup as most of my family are from South Africa and they have got access to tickets but unfortunately I wont be able to make it. But I was there in December and drove past Soccer City/FNB Stadium after a trip to Rosebank. The stadium was huge but really nicely designed! Cant wait for the world cup! I have all the HD set up and a nice 50 inch TV to go with it for a big party on June 11th!

 

[Expander]

The passing is at least 32. In fact I think it is 32, because I remember thinking it was weird that they weren't going for more. It's way more precise than 16; that would be the same as all the directions you sprinted with the ball in old PES's ,including the intermediary touches.

Pes has always been 8-axis movement with 8-axis shooting and passing,unless you used the right analog stick for passing then it was 16-axis but only on the ps2.This is part of PESs problem the rigidity and lack of freedom of movement has always been there,the ps2 just masked it better and HD tellys just highlight animation and movement more.Theres just no hiding place anymore and as most have only ever experienced PES,not the games that came before it they didnt know any different until fifa10 came along.

I think your be suprised how limited the passing is in fifa10 and FWC,the movement system certainly makes it feel more free then it is.

Dont get me wrong i would love pe2011 to have the freedom of movement,passing and directional control fifa currently affords the user,albeit done in a better way thats more realistic and balanced,however fifa does deserve it accolades its a good system and if they get ai based individuality nailed with player traits animated then pes is in trouble.

 

[romagnoli]

To clarify, PES was 8 axis for repeatable touches but when sprinting you'd take two touches moving from, say, NW to W. The angle you'd run in between those two you'd be running NNW. The manual passing in FIFA is demonstrably more nuanced than that. Again, If memory serves correctly EA said it is 32 directional (not the 64 I originally said - I think that was from someone else who'd had an educated guess).

Players moving does obviously make a difference over sufficient distances - which is why I personally don't think copying the passing system for manual shooting is the best option, and why I'd be interested to see what PES does for shooting. Goals don't move to compensate for a lack of angles. In fact, I might see if I can find out what the available angles are for shooting.

Replying to the "who cares how many angles it is" - you will if Konami don't put enough angles in!

 

[YoungGun_UK]

the 360 dribbling in PES needs to be improved, Would be hard to go from FIFA 10's dribbling system to PES's if it remains the same as 10'.

 

[Miro]

Hehe , Ronaldinho and Van Persie know big shit about PES 2011, they havent seen it even from airplane.
Those two indviduals are one of the biggest jokes I ve seen here.
We need to wait for official information thats all.
Stop reacting on this idiots.

 

[Thypari]

They should do the manual pass like in this game: (with curve)

YouTube - Football kingdom Highlight[02]

 

[zeemeister]

Man your so lucky! Have fun! I was going to go for the World Cup as most of my family are from South Africa and they have got access to tickets but unfortunately I wont be able to make it. But I was there in December and drove past Soccer City/FNB Stadium after a trip to Rosebank. The stadium was huge but really nicely designed! Cant wait for the world cup! I have all the HD set up and a nice 50 inch TV to go with it for a big party on June 11th!

I know there is a vibe here like you wouldn't believe. I am only watching matches in Cape town unfortunately Argentina are not playing here but I have tickets for match 59 which could be Argentina vs Germany if all goes according to my predictions.

You seem set to go 50" and in HD....nice

Hehe , Ronaldinho and Van Persie know big shit about PES 2011, they havent seen it even from airplane.
Those two indviduals are one of the biggest jokes I ve seen here.
We need to wait for official information thats all.
Stop reacting on this idiots.

Moron. Then we wonder why guys like ThomasGoal don't post here anymore.

 

[Radiation]

The passing on that game looks bleeding satisfying. Like... you can aim yourself into space or right at a player and use the power bar to get the weight right but it doesn't appear to be locked to a player... its like the players run to the ball not the other way around. that's kinda how I'm imagining this pes passing to look.

 

[Gab_]

Yes Football Kingdom have manual controls on cross button and through balls and then uses the old assisted passes on normal passing. It works really well except that the player's attributes doesn't seem to matter, they all pass the same. FK also has really nice 360 movement, it looks really good actually but I don't think the ball is really free so it's easier to do it. Doesn't feel like ice hockey movement though, you can't spin around like in the old football games where the ball just followed you.

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Hehe , Ronaldinho and Van Persie know big shit about PES 2011, they havent seen it even from airplane.
Those two indviduals are one of the biggest jokes I ve seen here.
We need to wait for official information thats all.
Stop reacting on this idiots.

Ok. por mi parte, se acabo.
yo nunca insulte a nadie, tampoco lo aguanto hacia mi.