PES 2011 Discussion thread

[Gab_]

Don't get you fully but I like the idea.

Sorry English isn't my first language. It's pretty simple really. At the moment everyone pretty much have the same touch all the time, because every single touch of the ball isn't calculated. But if the amount of "error" in every touch is calculated based on the players stats, it will control how quick he can do the next touch (response time).

It's easiest I think to think of how sprinting works. Currently you can run in a perfect straight line with the exact same speed and same touch every time. But just like in real life, if every touch had some error in it, you wouldn't be able to keep exact same speed and control of the ball.

 

[Northzzz]

He is saying that players who are better at dribbling should have a higher level of control over the ball whilst in the motion of dribbling consistently more so than players who aren't that good at dribbling (taking into account aspects like first touch, speed, accuracy and control of the ball) but that all players in the game should have some kind of 'error' factor added into their dribbling. He is just stating that we currently don't see enough difference or efficency in dribbling between players in Pro O which is a good point.

Edit: Gab already explained

 

[theCRO]

Boy what have you been smoking,pes2010 is a complete parody of real football,and considering your profile avatar has a picture of iss2000 you should know better as that series of games by majorA was lightyears ahead of PES.

Any fool can play pes2010 well as it doesnt require much in the way of skill and its a far cry from being a beatifall simulation of the real game.

Do you actually watch real football?because from my memory no real game is ever as clunky,laboured or as mechanical as pes2010.Football is all about fluid motion,freedom and kicking a inflated sphere of air around,not wrestling players and having a game that does all the thinking and calculations for you,automating all the aspects of the game that are fun like passing,shooting,crossing,long passing and through passing.

Your one serious pes fan boy thats in serious denial.

Pes2010 is broken to its core this is why pes2011 is the revamp that the pes series so badly needs to bring it finally into the 21st century.

Wow, I could not disagree more.

 

[Lami]

Sorry English isn't my first language. It's pretty simple really. At the moment everyone pretty much have the same touch all the time, because every single touch of the ball isn't calculated. But if the amount of "error" in every touch is calculated based on the players stats, it will control how quick he can do the next touch (response time).

It's easiest I think to think of how sprinting works. Currently you can run in a perfect straight line with the exact same speed and same touch every time. But just like in real life, if every touch had some error in it, you wouldn't be able to keep exact same speed and control of the ball.

He is saying that players who are better at dribbling should have a higher level of control over the ball whilst in the motion of dribbling consistently more so than players who aren't that good at dribbling (taking into account aspects like first touch, speed, accuracy and control of the ball) but that all players in the game should have some kind of 'error' factor added into their dribbling. He is just stating that we currently don't see enough difference or efficency in dribbling between players in Pro O which is a good point.

Edit: Gab already explained

Yea got it thanks It seems very complicated though? Not sure how that would be programmed in PES. Think it's a very good idea though. Adds to the randomness and all.

 

[tc811]

Pes2010 is broken to its core this is why pes2011 is the revamp that the pes series so badly needs to bring it finally into the 21st century.

Your brain is broken...

 

[Lami]

Come on dudes. Its opinions.

 

[tc811]

Well he said the core of PES is broken. What does that make FIFA, 1/100th of an actual football game then? This is more or less fact: FIFA is broken at its core, but saying that about PES is just plain wrong.

 

[goalgerd]

Well he said the core of PES is broken. What does that make FIFA, 1/100th of an actual football game then? This is more or less fact: FIFA is broken at its core, but saying that about PES is just plain wrong.

this is a discussion about pes 2011,theres no need to flame by bringing in opinions on fifa

 

[Lami]

Well he said the core of PES is broken. What does that make FIFA, 1/100th of an actual football game then? This is more or less fact: FIFA is broken at its core, but saying that about PES is just plain wrong.

Well he hasn't mentioned Fifa has he. He can say his opinion in PES as long as their isn't any disrespecting or flaming involved. I happen to think Fifa is broken at its core as well, and PES's fundamentals are done in a better way, and I prefer PES's approach, but thats just my opinion.

Both games have their flaws anyway.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

this is a discussion about pes 2011,theres no need to flame by bringing in opinions on fifa

It's the same bullshit every year Gerd. Every year without fail. As regular as clockwork, the new PES thread will get hammered by Fifa Fanboys who always feel the need to come onto this thread and tell us how bad PES is, and how it will never be like PES 3 and PES 5.

Expander is just another, and the first of many. Why they embarress themselves wasting their time is beyond me. PES fans can hold their head held, as you wont find one true fan of the series on here bothering their ass to bash Fifa 11 on their repective thread. Pointless. And quite frankly, childish.

I think the issue is that Seabass and his team have a proven track record of producing legendary titles. Unfortunately, in 17 years, EA havent managed to produce one title worthy of such an accolade. Hence the bitterness.

Anyway, back on topic .........

.

 

[Lami]

It's the same bullshit every year Gerd. Every year without fail. As regular as clockwork, the new PES thread will get hammered by Fifa Fanboys who always feel the need to come onto this thread and tell us how bad PES is, and how it will never be like PES 3 and PES 5.

Can't disagree with that. But its a forum after all. It should be open for all kinds of opinions.

What we as mods, imo, should be doing is making sure no Winding up/flaming/disrespecting happens.

I like to see what everyone has to say tbh. Because pointing out negatives/mistakes is what makes the next game better. What I don't like though is the constant bashing from a fanboy only for the sake of degrading. People should learn to respect others' opinions and tastes.

Also I don't get why this game makes people very sensitive about it. I've seen all other game threads and people give their opinions about them without anyone getting defensive etc. Its only the football games. PES this, Fifa that. Meh...

 

[wan_d7]

I still think, PES is not broken in their core, but it still feel arcade sometimes. The unnecessary animation, the bad AI make the game, at least for me feel annoying, at a time. But maybe its just me, cause it only get annoying when I'm losing and the COM keep cheating to the max! still fingers cross for 2011. Please let it be so good that i don't want to go to sleep after each game and I won't hammer my controller again after getting beat.

 

[Lami]

I still think, PES is not broken in their core, but it still feel arcade sometimes. The unnecessary animation, the bad AI make the game, at least for me feel annoying, at a time. But maybe its just me, cause it only get annoying when I'm losing and the COM keep cheating to the max! still fingers cross for 2011. Please let it be so good that i don't want to go to sleep after each game and I won't hammer my controller again after getting beat.

If you think COM is cheating, and playing on top player, trying playing on professional.

 

[Expander]

It's the same bullshit every year Gerd. Every year without fail. As regular as clockwork, the new PES thread will get hammered by Fifa Fanboys who always feel the need to come onto this thread and tell us how bad PES is, and how it will never be like PES 3 and PES 5.

Expander is just another, and the first of many. Why they embarress themselves wasting their time is beyond me. PES fans can hold their head held, as you wont find one true fan of the series on here bothering their ass to bash Fifa 11 on their repective thread. Pointless. And quite frankly, childish.

I think the issue is that Seabass and his team have a proven track record of producing legendary titles. Unfortunately, in 17 years, EA havent managed to produce one title worthy of such an accolade. Hence the bitterness.

Anyway, back on topic .........

.

Im not flaming,and im certainly not a fifa fan although im not so close minded i wont accept that currently eas tech is much more advanced then konamis,although this is not enough to lure me from my first love konami.

When did i bash pes2011?,im one of the few that cant wait to get my hands on pes2011 being one of the many bloggers on various fan sites that has called for such radical changes that konami have promised for pes2011.Infact i was one of the few people advocating 360 degree player movement and a freed up user defined passing and shooting system well before ea even had it in there games as i was fortunate enough back in the day to experience it in a konami football game(perfect striker2 1999 n64),so understand how organic and fluid it would make pes.

Currently the movement system in pes and the auto passing and shooting system that is totally cpu dictated is totally old hat and out of vogue rendering pes into the footballing equivalent of a QTE game.Its like us pes fans are still playing the fps equivalent of doom while fifa fans are experiencing something like halflife2,theres a massive difference in the tech being used and konamis is extremely dated.

Im not elitist and i dont want to alienate potential noobs to the series but pes2010 has absolutely no game balance using a cheap sega rally catch up system that doesnt make the cpu or human opposition earn there right to get back in the game by using the length and width of the pitch or with clever plays which it should,instead it slows your players up making defenders and goalkeepers make school boy basic errors when goals should give you the rub of the green,its how football works(its called motivation).This is why im certainly not going to accept that pes in its current form(pes2010)is quite the promised land you paint it as jimmy as its riddled with technical shortcomings and isnt quite the sum of its parts.

I understand pes productions footballing ideology as much as the next man but that deosnt mean its not time for a new way of thinking and changes to the fundamental concepts that drive pes.Konami have to start thinking outside of the walls of pes on the ps2 which the press release seems to suggest which is only a good thing.

You see jimmy the strange thing about pes is that it thrives on the principles that traditional game design strives to eliminate-unpredictability,clumsiness,inconsistency,and the feeling,however irrational,that the game is unfolding to a dramatic,deified,and unavoidable outcome irrespective
of the frenzied actions of its protagonists.It is,at its most scripted,a terrible video game-and,as such,an almost perfect simulation of football.

One last thing,if you had actually read my post rather then coming to the rather short sighted conclusion that im a fifa fan flaming you might of got my point which was konami had something in the iss series on the n64 that they have never managed to marry in pes which is-

Iss had a alchemy that was at work,a precious equililibrium in the AI and the design and the phychology of the game which meant that things didnt happen the same way,and crucially,you didnt behave in the same way in the same situation twice.It was a game that had broken free from its binery roots and origins and came gloriously,to life.

This is what i want to see return this year along with fluid animation and total control of passing and shooting that also encompasses player individuality that is ai and stat based as i like many others am tired of playing the same game for ten years thats just re-mixed with new window dressing.

Im not stupid and can see the clever mechanics that are underneath pes2010s wooden animation and contrived scripted on rails gameplay and am fully aware that fifa is nothing but a hollow porcelain doll that hits the technical high notes but lacks a realistic under belly........however that doesnt mean that pes2011 cant embrace in konamis own unique way some of the freedom and levels of subtle precise control that the fifa series now affords the user which will ultimetly make pes a much better game.

 

[Northzzz]

The thing is PES' core is basically the only thing that isn't broken.

Where as Fifa's core is the only thing that is broken.

I know it's all opinions so there's no real point in getting into a FIFA v Pes debate. Both games should be taken on their own as individual titles and on indvidual flaws and strengths rather than constant comparisons.


Is this the period of time where we are simply waiting for news, have exasperated all we can talk about so we bide our time by going slightly off topic?

 

[RAMAXWY]

PES2011 will be PES6 in HD with a few improvements.

when you look at the teaser the one thing you notice is that the shorts stick to the legs again and that was not present in the next gen games.
the way the player looks around while expecting a pass or looking for space also makes me think of the PES6 era but now with much more detail.
the animations also make me think of the best football game on any console ever, but with added smoothness. so i'm guessing that KONAMI are just gonna import PES6 from the ps2 to the ps3 with the graphics boost we are used to by now just to get there fans back on board and take it from there.
if you ask me not a bad decision.
that's just my take especially after watching the teaser but we will have to wait and see.

 

[Northzzz]

When people talk about PES 6 in such high regard can i fully assume that they are taking about the ps2 version? I had the xbox 360 version and i remember being underwhelmed by the game's basicness after a couple of months. It was good that online actually worked because it saved me from getting bored.

In fact i played it the other week. It's so so hard to score a long shots, that was the first thing i remembered. Headers still fly like bullets, which is probably the only similar thing to PES 2010.

 

[Gab_]

PES 6 was a dumbed down PES 5 to me.

And Northzzz is right, the core in PES is what still makes it very possible to create a superb game for PES 2011. That's why everyone screams for PES 5/6 with new animations. Because PES still have the randomness of football that FIFA doesn't have. You shoot the ball at goal in PES and you have no idea what will happen because there are no scripted saves, anyone close to the ball can attack it and so on. That's why PES will win in the long run, it has the "soul" of football because of these and some other features.

One thing that I look forward to is the new ball physics. In every PES to date (as far as I know) every pass/cross/shot starts out with a backspin to the ball (except freekicks). I really hope you can finally get proper top spin shots in PES 2011, it will add so much more variety to shooting if it's not hard coded to backspin all the time. This coupled with the unscripted keepers in PES would be so awesome. Imagine top spin shots that bounce just before the keeper and so on and you have no idea what will happen. Make it happen Konami. Oh and swerve is obviously needed too, not every shot should be going in a straight line.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Im not flaming,and im certainly not a fifa fan although im not so close minded i wont accept that currently eas tech is much more advanced then konamis,although this is not enough to lure me from my first love konami.

When did i bash pes2011?,im one of the few that cant wait to get my hands on pes2011 being one of the many bloggers on various fan sites that has called for such radical changes that konami have promised for pes2011.Infact i was one of the few people advocating 360 degree player movement and a freed up user defined passing and shooting system well before ea even had it in there games as i was fortunate enough back in the day to experience it in a konami football game(perfect striker2 1999 n64),so understand how organic and fluid it would make pes.

Currently the movement system in pes and the auto passing and shooting system that is totally cpu dictated is totally old hat and out of vogue rendering pes into the footballing equivalent of a QTE game.Its like us pes fans are still playing the fps equivalent of doom while fifa fans are experiencing something like halflife2,theres a massive difference in the tech being used and konamis is extremely dated.

Im not elitist and i dont want to alienate potential noobs to the series but pes2010 has absolutely no game balance using a cheap sega rally catch up system that doesnt make the cpu or human opposition earn there right to get back in the game by using the length and width of the pitch or with clever plays which it should,instead it slows your players up making defenders and goalkeepers make school boy basic errors when goals should give you the rub of the green,its how football works(its called motivation).This is why im certainly not going to accept that pes in its current form(pes2010)is quite the promised land you paint it as jimmy as its riddled with technical shortcomings and isnt quite the sum of its parts.

I understand pes productions footballing ideology as much as the next man but that deosnt mean its not time for a new way of thinking and changes to the fundamental concepts that drive pes.Konami have to start thinking outside of the walls of pes on the ps2 which the press release seems to suggest which is only a good thing.

You see jimmy the strange thing about pes is that it thrives on the principles that traditional game design strives to eliminate-unpredictability,clumsiness,inconsistency,and the feeling,however irrational,that the game is unfolding to a dramatic,deified,and unavoidable outcome irrespective
of the frenzied actions of its protagonists.It is,at its most scripted,a terrible video game-and,as such,an almost perfect simulation of football.

One last thing,if you had actually read my post rather then coming to the rather short sighted conclusion that im a fifa fan flaming you might of got my point which was konami had something in the iss series on the n64 that they have never managed to marry in pes which is-

Iss had a alchemy that was at work,a precious equililibrium in the AI and the design and the phychology of the game which meant that things didnt happen the same way,and crucially,you didnt behave in the same way in the same situation twice.It was a game that had broken free from its binery roots and origins and came gloriously,to life.

This is what i want to see return this year along with fluid animation and total control of passing and shooting that also encompasses player individuality that is ai and stat based as i like many others am tired of playing the same game for ten years thats just re-mixed with new window dressing.

Im not stupid and can see the clever mechanics that are underneath pes2010s wooden animation and contrived scripted on rails gameplay and am fully aware that fifa is nothing but a hollow porcelain doll that hits the technical high notes but lacks a realistic under belly........however that doesnt mean that pes2011 cant embrace in konamis own unique way some of the freedom and levels of subtle precise control that the fifa series now affords the user which will ultimetly make pes a much better game.

Thats an excellent post to be fair, and although I agree with alot of points I disagree on a few others. But fair play, very well written. In fact you dont even sound like the same person that made the initial post that reaked of Fifa Fanboyism. Also, Fifa works so well with the freedom of passing because it doesnt rely, or have to accomodate any player individuality. PES may well feel scripted in this regard, but this bother me not, because at least the air of unpredictability is present, and it's all very cleverly stat related. Thats all the interests me. I would certainly like the passing tweaking, but as it stands, I can play stunning football with lesser teams. I have no complaint. If you fancy hitting me for a game, just holla.

 

[Lami]

Now this is more like it

Great post Expander.

 

[wan_d7]

If you think COM is cheating, and playing on top player, trying playing on professional.

But... pro is very dumb.. I wish the AI is more intelligent, not passing the ball like pinball.

And how bout player switching? Don't you guys think is a bit ass to switch player? And the super cancel is ass too. Not too perfect for me.

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Hola, hace tiempo que no posteo.

- Se han observado fallos en el sistema de pase, controles y regates que dificultan esa presunta libertad de movimiento/accion
- Las porterias son identicas a PES2010
- Apenas hay cambios en la iluminacion de varios estadios que estaban mal (bernabeu)


Personalmente, espero que esto sea corregido.

please, translate me

 

[Ameppe]

Hola, hace tiempo que no posteo.

- Se han observado fallos en el sistema de pase, controles y regates que dificultan esa presunta libertad de movimiento/accion
- Las porterias son identicas a PES2010
- Apenas hay cambios en la iluminacion de varios estadios que estaban mal (bernabeu)


Personalmente, espero que esto sea corregido.

please, translate me

Failures have been observed in the pass system, and dribbling controls that hinder the alleged freedom of movement / action
- The goals are identical to PES2010
- Hardly any changes in the light of several stages that were wrong (bernabeu)

Ronaldinho,what kind of failures?

TR.Ronaldinho, qué tipo de fallos?

 

[Gab_]

Yes please more details about this. Is this something they are working on, or is this the view of someone outside Konami that has tried the game?

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Failures have been observed in the pass system, and dribbling controls that hinder the alleged freedom of movement / action
- The goals are identical to PES2010
- Hardly any changes in the light of several stages that were wrong (bernabeu)

Ronaldinho,what kind of failures?

TR.Ronaldinho, qué tipo de fallos?

En la fisica del balon, sigue viendose ese "rail", en menor medida, pero hace feo muchos pases, que parecen estar dirigidos..algo asi como si en vez de moverse el balon, fuese el campo el que se mueve..no se si me explico.

En algunos giros bruscos de los jugadores, que parece una animacion cortada.

En cuanto tenga mas infomacion os lo dire, aun se esta trabajando y sera corregido (eso espero yo)

konami esta siendo muy muy muy muy reservada con la informacion incluso para los cercanos a ellos

 

[Ameppe]

Ronaldinho, did you play the game, or thiese are impressions from people who played it?


Ronaldinho, jugaste el juego, o thiese son impresiones de las personas que lo probaron?

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

thanks for translate ameppe

Ronaldinho, did you play the game, or thiese are impressions from people who played it?


Ronaldinho, jugaste el juego, o thiese son impresiones de las personas que lo probaron?

Impresiones de los que han jugado.

 

[Ameppe]

thanks for translate ameppe



Impresiones de los que han jugado.

Did they tell you if it's much more improved from pes 2010?

Te han dicho si es mucho más mejorado de PES 2010?

This is what i care most, it's almost normal to have some problems after the first time they changed their gaming engine

 

[Gab_]

That's no good news... proper realistic ball physics is so important. If it doesn't look natural then something weird is going on... will be interesting to see if any of the journalists that played it will mention this or if they didn't notice it.

 

[_anderson]

That's no good news... proper realistic ball physics is so important. If it doesn't look natural then something weird is going on... will be interesting to see if any of the journalists that played it will mention this or if they didn't notice it.

They are either just like last year (and obviously need fixing) or it feels too real now, that's why the guy says it's strange lol.