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PES 2011 Discussion thread

PabloAimar10 said:
pes 5 best game ever.
without a doubt
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I agree, play it daily. I pray that 2011 allows me to put pes5 to rest. I also agree that the skill level needed to play pes has dropped. Im hoping PES 2011 is a lot harder master. If this is the case and online is fixed, it should make for some great matches vs cpu and human opposition.
 
Expander said:
Also the button lag in pes2010 is not intentional,pes2010 is a unfinished beta game that needed alot more work done on it before it was released,but as they have done for three years now konami brought a half baked game to market akin to any other developer pulling the cake out of the oven before it has had time to rise,and jimmy it shows!!!!!!!
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What if they wanted to make PES 2010 a slower game but it ended up being a bit on the laggy side? Or its probably the mo-capped animations?
 
about the responsiveness...I kinda like that little delay to get your body in position to pass or shoot. I just don't want horrid delay fifa WC has to the point where you can't slide tackle.
 
Lami said:
What if they wanted to make PES 2010 a slower game but it ended up being a bit on the laggy side? Or its probably the mo-capped animations?
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Imo,pes2010 brought a new graphics system,revamped master league and the sliders to the plate.Interms of gameplay they took pes2008s gameplay mechanics,tweaked them slightly and you have the mess that is pes2010.

Theres little doubt theres a good game in pes2010 trying to get out and i certainly can appreciate were konami are going with it,problem is its just bogged down with old tech and broken mechanics from the ps2 days ie restrictive d-pad movement and 8-axis passing and shooting that has to be fixed joining all the lines up for you because the ai and physics systems in place in pes2010 cant cope with the demands of a freed up control interface and user defined control.

For me konamis pes3,pes5 and majorAs perfect striker3 on the ps2(evolved version of iss on the n64),are still the benchmarks that konami need to re-invent or re-engineer with the tech of today.Have a look at this,this is a nine year old game by konami that had 360 degree movement,passing and shooting(on a 360 degree plain)with fluid animation and fantastic ai.In my mind(as the overall template was right),this is the nucleaus for pes2011 and this games facets will finally resurface this year in pes2011,albeit in a less exaggerated form using modern animation and physics techniques.This game gave you total freedom of control and was the future back in 2001.

YouTube - perfect striker3/ISS(KCEOT MAJOR A) ps2 running on japanese backwards compatible ps3 hdmi
 
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zeemeister said:
about the responsiveness...I kinda like that little delay to get your body in position to pass or shoot. I just don't want horrid delay fifa WC has to the point where you can't slide tackle.
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FIFA response times are instant? When you want to move they do, PES is just awful (it doesn't take me 3 seconds to kick the ball in a different direction)

I really wonder what Jimmy will make of PES 2011, if it turns out the be what Konami are claiming it to be.
 
FIFA 10 and FIFA WC have very responsive controls. Maybe not online, but offline there is very short delay.

PES 2010 has the exact same response times as FIFA 08, maybe even worse. Probably is the same reason too, because in FIFA 08 it was to fit the animations, but in the later FIFA games they cheat more and cut them off and also have upped the amount of touches a lot. More touches equals more times to turn or do any other action with the ball.

I sent a question about this to penpas (if the button delay is still as bas as 2010) and he told me "No, this time they changed a little bit". So it is probably not as responsive as PES 5, but not as bad as 2010.
 
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The left image is just the leaked messi pasted on PES 2010. Where is the right image from?
 
Gab_ said:
FIFA 10 and FIFA WC have very responsive controls. Maybe not online, but offline there is very short delay.

PES 2010 has the exact same response times as FIFA 08, maybe even worse. Probably is the same reason too, because in FIFA 08 it was to fit the animations, but in the later FIFA games they cheat more and cut them off and also have upped the amount of touches a lot. More touches equals more times to turn or do any other action with the ball.

I sent a question about this to penpas (if the button delay is still as bas as 2010) and he told me "No, this time they changed a little bit". So it is probably not as responsive as PES 5, but not as bad as 2010.
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So I'm guessing it is to do with mo-capping then.

Expander, that video clip, you can't really compare 360 control there with 360 control these days. That looks pretty easy, the model just stands still and slides around in circular motion like a still picture. Nowadays its has to be a series of animations stringed together carefully and smoothly. Its not as easy as you think.

That pic looks fake to me. Pitch looks very much like 2010.
 
Jimmy's original point was wonderful. I've never understood when people have whined about reaction times in the past simply because i've never felt them myself. But as it has become a prominent piece of discussion i'll throw in my two cents (which is pretty much similar to Jimmy's)/ If a player takes a while to take a shot or a pass it's always because the ball is moving/or bouncing in a way that isn't going to be easy to connect with and so the player has to take his time in order to execute it.

'It's not lagginess in my opinion. It's merely replicating varying techniques. For every Bergkamp, there has to be a polar opposite. I play in a league with Lille. I have no problem with any of the players, and it's because I use every players strengths in the correct manner. I dont dribble with CB's, I get rid of the ball, nice and simple short passes. I let my CMF or AMF's do the clever stuff. Thats what there skillset is made up of.'

That's why i like the PES series. It makes me think and limits me to what i can physically(with the player i am controller) achieve, i don't want 'a glorified arcade game'

The thing i'm sure a lot of people play real football matches here, they must realise that you can't do everything in an instant. No?
 
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Lami said:
So I'm guessing it is to do with mo-capping then.

Expander, that video clip, you can't really compare 360 control there with 360 control these days. That looks pretty easy, the model just stands still and slides around in circular motion like a still picture. Nowadays its has to be a series of animations stringed together carefully and smoothly. Its not as easy as you think.

That pic looks fake to me. Pitch looks very much like 2010.
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Come again,the players foot touches the ball everytime you turn,your just seeing it from afar,close up it works on the same principle as the system used in fifa10 and FWC the only difference being you had to use the thumbstick and dash button to angle your movements when in fifa its done automatically by just manipulating the stick.

Infact FWC is just a clone of this game that lacks this games player individuality and ball control but there very similiar.Im not just pulling this video from you tube,its mine and i spent years playing this series by konami so understand its depth and complexity deeply.

Naturally it needs to be re-engineered but the nucleaus was there as was the overall template and yes you had total control of everything.
 
Northzzz said:
Jimmy's original point was wonderful. I've never understood when people have whined about reaction times in the past simply because i've never felt them myself. But as it has become a prominent piece of discussion i'll throw in my two cents (which is pretty much similar to Jimmy's)/ If a player takes a while to take a shot or a pass it's always because the ball is moving/or bouncing in a way that isn't going to be easy to connect with and so the player has to take his time in order to execute it.

'It's not lagginess in my opinion. It's merely replicating varying techniques. For every Bergkamp, there has to be a polar opposite. I play in a league with Lille. I have no problem with any of the players, and it's because I use every players strengths in the correct manner. I dont dribble with CB's, I get rid of the ball, nice and simple short passes. I let my CMF or AMF's do the clever stuff. Thats what there skillset is made up of.'

That's why i like the PES series. It makes me think and limits me to what i can physically(with the player i am controller) achieve, i don't want 'a glorified arcade game'

The thing i'm sure a lot of people play real football matches here, they must realise that you can't do everything in an instant. No?
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How about when your running or stationery and have the ball under control and your pressing the required button over and over and nothing happens or it takes 3 seconds plus for the player to respond to the button command when the ball is dead.

Get real,your another jimmy papering over the cracks as your so used to playing a un-responsive game youve forgotten how good it feels when response is instant which it should be when the ball is at your feet.

This is a systematic problem of pes fans,rose tinted ps2 nostalgia when most of the pes games on the ps2 had flaws and now a next gen product thats so behind the times stuck in a dpad and 8-axis vacumm using tech that is over ten years old now.

Wake up people the revolution is coming and about time to!
 
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Expander said:
How about when your running or stationery and have the ball under control and your pressing the required button over and over and nothing happens or it takes 3 seconds plus for the player to respond to the button command when the ball is dead.

Get real,your another jimmy papering over the cracks as your so used to playing a un-responsive game youve forgotten how good it feels when response is instant which it should be when the ball is at your feet.

This is a systematic problem of pes fans,rose tinted ps2 nostalgia when most of the pes games on the ps2 had flaws and now a next gen product thats so behind the times stuck in a dpad and 8-axis vacumm using tech that is over ten years old now.

Wake up people the revolution is coming and about time to!
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I don't even think this game is that good (6 or 7/10) and (sorry Lami for getting personal) but you are an idiot if your rose tinted PS2 fan comment is directed at me. I think PES 6 is overrated for a start and definitely agree with your point about the so called games of the 'glory days' not being flawless by any means.

Did you update your game at all because i can say i don't notice your first point. Not on a continuous basis anyway if at all and i as i never played PES 2010 in it's original state maybe its a gameplay issue that was parcially rectified in an update.
 
Gab_ said:
The left image is just the leaked messi pasted on PES 2010. Where is the right image from?
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It can't be the same Messi as the pose is different - I think he;'s just cut and pasted the power bar onto PES 2010

WENB's pic
shot.jpg


WelovePes's Mr H pic
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Mr H's edited version
k4t6bk.jpg

For some reason he's edited the kit and body on the edited version of the pic so he's thinner and shorts aren't as baggy.
 
Northzzz said:
I don't even think this game is that good (6 or 7/10) and (sorry Lami for getting personal) but you are an idiot if your rose tinted PS2 fan comment is directed at me. I think PES 6 is overrated for a start and definitely agree with your point about the so called games of the 'glory days' not being flawless by any means.

Did you update your game at all because i can say i don't notice your first point. Not on a continuous basis anyway if at all and i as i never played PES 2010 in it's original state maybe its a gameplay issue that was parcially rectified in an update.
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For me the updates made the game worse not better and i wasnt being nasty.

When real players hit volleys or meet headers there already swinging there leg or making the movement to meet the header so the point of contact is instant,which was my point.

The response times are laggy in pes2010 because the games so in-balanced and by having players react quicker then others konami are imposing a false sense of player individuality which is more a illusion or a clever coding trick rather then being something that adheres to true to life principles.

My comment relating to pes on the ps2 and rose tinted nostalgia was more directed at people who hold these old games up as the holy grail when in my opinion they where very short pass orientated,extremely scripted and contrived being very one dimensional in-nature.And although i played and loved pes on the ps2 it was passable at the time because there wasnt anything better,now its just a lesson in mediocracy and has been superseeded by EA.

Its just taken fifa to get as good as it has for people to really notice the extremely limited nature of pes and how user defined control and passing and shooting freedom makes for a better game.
 
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PES 2010 is not perfect by any means, but imo it is the best football game in the market atm. And yes I do think if it was responsive like the older games then I'd rate it higher.

Some people may like this game and others may not. Its just different strokes for different folks. And its the same with every game.
 
The fact that Mr Heisenberg used Messi makes it fairly abundantly clear that it's a fake. He could have used any other player to convince us better that his pictures are actually real but no he has to use the player who happens to be in an already leaked photo. In the same pose no less.

It's not even a good attempt at hiding it's fakeness.
 
No excuses. PES2010 is laggy.

While I agree with Jimmy's sentiments that a player's level of technique, agility and touch should be reflected in his individual response time, in my opinion the response times are quite simply too slow across the board in PES2010. Even the most nimble and talented players - Messrs Ronaldo, Robben, Messi et al - feel a little sluggish and laborious to control.

That shouldn't be the case.

PES always used to promote a drop of the shoulder, quick change of direction and sudden burst of pace to beat a man, without the need for fancy tricks, but with PES2010 feeling so laggy it's quite difficult to do this.
 
Jamezinho said:
No excuses. PES2010 is laggy.

While I agree with Jimmy's sentiments that a player's level of technique, agility and touch should be reflected in his individual response time, in my opinion the response times are quite simply too slow across the board in PES2010. Even the most nimble and talented players - Messrs Ronaldo, Robben, Messi et al - feel a little sluggish and laborious to control.

That shouldn't be the case.

PES always used to promote a drop of the shoulder, quick change of direction and sudden burst of pace to beat a man, without the need for fancy tricks, but with PES2010 feeling so laggy it's quite difficult to do this.
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This.

Don't mind when a player's movement is slow because that should be based on his agility stat. To me there is a difference between a player's movement whether quick or slow which is based on stats, and the press-button-execute-order delay. I had that same problem in Fifa 08 and I didn't like it. Why should I like it in PES 2010?

I've just tried counting and there's about half a second delay. That or either the player sometimes doesn't even execute...
 
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Radiation said:
It can't be the same Messi as the pose is different - I think he;'s just cut and pasted the power bar onto PES 2010
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Yeah true, I didn't compare it to the leaked image, I just asumed it was the case since it is clearly PES 2010. Yor'e right, looks like he just added the power bar.

The response times in PES 2010 doesn't represent realism to me, because they are just too bad overall. The idea of different touch of the ball for players are great, but it's not really implemented that good to me. I think they should implement so that every touch of the ball is calculated so in that way you will control response times more realistic. What I mean is that currently it seems that they have something like Messi have 90 in response time every time and a bad player have like 20 every time. It is always constant it seems. But if they implemented a calculation of every single touch (length & direction) based on those stats (Messi have like 90% chance of good touch) then it would simulate real life better I think.

So if you're sprinting with a bad player you might get some bad touches that makes the ball go far in front, to the sides and too short and so on. This way the response time will be created by his last touch (since you can only do something with the ball when it is by your feet).

But it doesn't mean Messi always have perfect response times, because even the best can have a bad touch. Same way as a bad player might have good touches too. And sometimes a bad touch can actually result in something good, just like real life. What's important with this system is that it is fully dynamic and not pre made values for a bad touch and so on.

To me a system like this doesn't only fix response times issues, but also player speed issues. There are lower league players that actually are pretty fast, but they are hardly ever given the correct speed because they would be to good in the game. If they sprint fast with the ball in real life they can't control the ball perfectly (too long, too short, to the sides etc. to keep the speed and possession of the ball) and this is one of the reasons they're not playing in the top division. This could be simulated with a system that calculates every touch.

I hope they've implemented something like this in PES 2011.
 
Gab_ said:
Yeah true, I didn't compare it to the leaked image, I just asumed it was the case since it is clearly PES 2010. Yor'e right, looks like he just added the power bar.

The response times in PES 2010 doesn't represent realism to me, because they are just too bad overall. The idea of different touch of the ball for players are great, but it's not really implemented that good to me. I think they should implement so that every touch of the ball is calculated so in that way you will control response times more realistic. What I mean is that currently it seems that they have something like Messi have 90 in response time every time and a bad player have like 20 every time. It is always constant it seems. But if they implemented a calculation of every single touch (length & direction) based on those stats (Messi have like 90% chance of good touch) then it would simulate real life better I think.

So if you're sprinting with a bad player you might get some bad touches that makes the ball go far in front, to the sides and too short and so on. This way the response time will be created by his last touch (since you can only do something with the ball when it is by your feet).

But it doesn't mean Messi always have perfect response times, because even the best can have a bad touch. Same way as a bad player might have good touches too. And sometimes a bad touch can actually result in something good, just like real life. What's important with this system is that it is fully dynamic and not pre made values for a bad touch and so on.

To me a system like this doesn't only fix response times issues, but also player speed issues. There are lower league players that actually are pretty fast, but they are hardly ever given the correct speed because they would be to good in the game. If they sprint fast with the ball in real life they can't control the ball perfectly (too long, too short, to the sides etc. to keep the speed and possession of the ball) and this is one of the reasons they're not playing in the top division. This could be simulated with a system that calculates every touch.

I hope they've implemented something like this in PES 2011.
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Don't get you fully but I like the idea.
 
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