PES 2011 Discussion thread

pboreham said:
Ah what a game!!!

Much like the old PES, the more you play it, the more it opens up and you notice so many little touches.

Put it on -2 to test it out and was so nice. Didnt really use the sprint button much at all, which was an absolute joy. Just little feints, stop and gos, turns etc. So much more realistic and fun than just sprinting down the wing.

Lots of little passes into space (using the manual modifier), few tricks etc. Absolutely love it, cannot wait for the full game now!

Just one question - and thanks Jimmy for the 'tricks' tips - but one thing I havent understood since it was announced really, is how do you use the 'linked' tricks? I.e. do you have to tap it 'down' 4 times to do the 4 tricks in the down section, or hold it down??
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Tap it down four times, four is way too much though, you will just end up conceding possession after linking two, but that's the risk for trying to be a Flash Harry. Not worth it really, two linked feints is more than enough.

I checked again last night in the Management Edit screen Dags, and Barcelona and Bayern have completely different strategies when trailing or level in the game. I assume they are both formation and style specific, the only tactic they have similar is CB overlap. The variety that this system will generate for each and every team depending on match circumstance is beyond vast. :)
 
One worry I have ... well not a "worry" as such, but I don't want to see teams going all out if it's just a ML game and they're getting beat. Fair enough if it means that team losing the title, but for your average game in the middle of the season, it's unrealistic to expect the team to plough everyone forward and have the keeper up for free kicks.
 
Does anyone know if those teams at Pes LEeague and the other fake league are real teams with fake names or they are a wet dream by Seabass?
 
pboreham said:
So confusing - perhaps its all explained in the manual. The 'Control List' doesnt seem to explain it well. Also doesnt help that i change my default controls - I'm set up like this;

TRI - Shoot
SQU - Dash
CRO - Pass
CIR - Lob
L1 - Through ball
R1 - Dunno what to call it, but use it to 1-2
L2 - Manual pass
R2 - Control shot
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They are the craziest button configs I've ever seen. How come you play like that? Triangle to shoot!? TRIANGLE?! :CONFUSE:
 
Putuco Malo said:
Does anyone know if those teams at Pes LEeague and the other fake league are real teams with fake names or they are a wet dream by Seabass?
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I'm pretty sure they're completely fake teams, usually replaced by Bundesliga and Championship teams in option files.
 
Radiation said:
They are the craziest button configs I've ever seen. How come you play like that? Triangle to shoot!? TRIANGLE?! :CONFUSE:
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Ha! Makes sense to me, its so ingrained now, that I can never change it.

I think it dates back to either NHL94 or an NBA game on the SNES that I played alot. They had triangle as the shoot button.

Then ISS came out (then ISS Deluxe) and I altered the button config to match that other game and its just stuck...

===

Just thinking back... it *may* have been that ISS/DELUXE had the 'Triangle' (think it was yellow on the snes pad?) as the shoot button and it wasnt changed to the square button until PS1?
 
pboreham said:
Ha! Makes sense to me, its so ingrained now, that I can never change it.

I think it dates back to either NHL94 or an NBA game on the SNES that I played alot. They had triangle as the shoot button.

Then ISS came out (then ISS Deluxe) and I altered the button config to match that other game and its just stuck...

===

Just thinking back... it *may* have been that ISS/DELUXE had the 'Triangle' (think it was yellow on the snes pad?) as the shoot button and it wasnt changed to the square button until PS1?
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I remember the NBA game, but I must say i would never apply that to PES or any other football game. Your call since you play it, though.
 
I am really enjoying PES again this year, but there are some things that could definitely improve.

- The player switch system, too often you dont get control over the player closest to the ball before it is too late, making the game a bit of a hassle responsive-wise at times, and in result a bit less fluent that it could be.

- Linked with this problem is the sometimes silly response from players when they are close to he ball, but obviously, according to the CPU, arent supposed to be. They just seem to walk right next to the ball, or glide on some sort of rail right next to it. Happens a bit too often in the demo, in my opnion, especially when a few passes has been pinged about and the game is hectic.

- The goalkeepers and their palming/blocking of shots. Enough has been said about this, really, but it is an annoying factor.

- Freekicks and corners. I am used to them, so it is not really a big problem, but re-inventing a system that would actually work better for the attacking team would be nice. I find it a bit too hard to address the correct player or area with freekicks, but it may be because I suck at it still, PES thankfully has a learning curve every year.

- The constant nagging from the ref, whisteling at every little thing your players do, yet the opponent often get away with some really harsh tackles. Not too unrealistic, really, if for instance MAN Utd were playing Southampton at Old Trafford or something, but silly when you are Barca at home.

- The constant replays of uninteresting tackles and fouls, and the useless cut scenes with these. Can you turn these off in the retail version? Takes some unnecessary loading time during a game.

- Some shots when a normal player really would have had more of a decent shot at goal, will be ballooned, simply because he is in a shit position of shooting. Should be some more variance in how crap shots turn out, shouldnt always be balloons.

Thats it for shit. I am really loving it so far, preferrably on -1 speed! :)
 
Daisuk said:
I am really enjoying PES again this year, but there are some things that could definitely improve.

- The player switch system, too often you dont get control over the player closest to the ball before it is too late, making the game a bit of a hassle responsive-wise at times, and in result a bit less fluent that it could be.

- Linked with this problem is the sometimes silly response from players when they are close to he ball, but obviously, according to the CPU, arent supposed to be. They just seem to walk right next to the ball, or glide on some sort of rail right next to it. Happens a bit too often in the demo, in my opnion, especially when a few passes has been pinged about and the game is hectic.

- The goalkeepers and their palming/blocking of shots. Enough has been said about this, really, but it is an annoying factor.

- Freekicks and corners. I am used to them, so it is not really a big problem, but re-inventing a system that would actually work better for the attacking team would be nice. I find it a bit too hard to address the correct player or area with freekicks, but it may be because I suck at it still, PES thankfully has a learning curve every year.

- The constant nagging from the ref, whisteling at every little thing your players do, yet the opponent often get away with some really harsh tackles. Not too unrealistic, really, if for instance MAN Utd were playing Southampton at Old Trafford or something, but silly when you are Barca at home.

- The constant replays of uninteresting tackles and fouls, and the useless cut scenes with these. Can you turn these off in the retail version? Takes some unnecessary loading time during a game.

- Some shots when a normal player really would have had more of a decent shot at goal, will be ballooned, simply because he is in a shit position of shooting. Should be some more variance in how crap shots turn out, shouldnt always be balloons.

Thats it for shit. I am really loving it so far, preferrably on -1 speed! :)
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The nagging from the ref is toned right down in the full game, which means less replays of fouls.
 
I hate the new ‘fifastic’ tricks, really hate them. This is PES (used to) not FIFA. Bring back the double tap L1 bicycle, it’s been there since PS1 days.
 
For all those who want players to make runs, even if it's not realistic should play FIFA. No really. I have been playing FIFA 09 and 10 and there you hold L1 and X and players will even go through players to make those runs you people want. It was fun while it lasted.

Has any of you noticed that when you play with bayern (home, afternoon)) the game is much smoother than playing with Barca(home,evening)?? (ps3)
 
By the way of reviews, FIFA 11 got a review that everyone should look into...it's from 1UP and to cut to the main core I quote this has I absolute agree with this:

"The core game is still quite good, and I'm not saying that players won't have a great time with this year's entry. But after watching this summer's World Cup and seeing players like Uruguay's Diego Forlan, the U.S.'s Landon Donovan, and Spain's David Villa absolutely dominate some matches, FIFA's ultimate issues have become noticeably more apparent. Yes, the game flows very much like an actual soccer match -- this year's passing game feels especially nuanced, as it's harder to string together an amazing series of passes than before -- but it simply doesn't exploit the skills of the top players on the pitch. Even on the hardest difficulties, I never felt like the star players were the ones making the difference. If I'm going up against Uruguay or Atletico Madrid in real life, I'm going to base my entire gameplan around stopping the dynamic Forlan -- but I never got the sense that I had to do that in FIFA 11. Star players are too often invisible, and it's not due to stifling defenses. For a game that supposedly prides itself on "player authenticity," that's disappointing. Sure, they may look more like the real players this year -- but it's far more important that they play like them. "

This is the difference between PES and FIFA. And for me the main difference between a deep and rewarding game and a game that is just for fun.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Tap it down four times, four is way too much though, you will just end up conceding possession after linking two, but that's the risk for trying to be a Flash Harry. Not worth it really, two linked feints is more than enough.

I checked again last night in the Management Edit screen Dags, and Barcelona and Bayern have completely different strategies when trailing or level in the game. I assume they are both formation and style specific, the only tactic they have similar is CB overlap. The variety that this system will generate for each and every team depending on match circumstance is beyond vast. :)
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Thought you'd gone mate????

Not been no this thread a few days so sorry for being out of the loop
 
The player switching most definitely needs work. I hope it's better in the full game because it was one of the weakest parts of the demo.

Ern Dog - the greyed out areas in your picture demonstration aren't where the player will drop to - they show you where the player can play. Unless I've missed something - I can't really look at the pic from work.

I got the automated message from Argos too; I'll be pretty annoyed if they can't sort me out with a copy on time. Fingers crossed...

Looking forward to the video of the mythical user-defined spin. One of those things you can only pray isn't in the game, particularly seeing as the description implied that you apply the spin after the ball is kicked, which would be a disaster.
 
vondave said:
Thought you'd gone mate????

Not been no this thread a few days so sorry for being out of the loop
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I lied :CONFUSE:

Well, after what has seemed like the longest 5 days in the history of mankind, I’ve made my way back to my hunting ground with a renewed vigour. I will never apologise for my passion for the Beautiful Game, or the consequential heart that adorns my respective sleeve. So, just a quick heads up. I have never been a fan of the classic ‘cringe worthy’ ‘I’m leaving the Forum’ threads, with the only exception being those rare occasions such a post holds relevance and credence. For those who were bothered, or had the insight to read between the lines, it’s essence had nothing to do with a member leaving, but more an open letter to a section of Evo-Web’s admin. Contrary to what may have been said, speaking direct and behind closed doors wasn’t an option. The intention was simple, to refresh the ideology, and instil the focus, beliefs and primary drivers that were paramount, and the forefront for Evo-Web’s inception. After speaking to a very respected member last night, his wise words certainly forced a change of heart. Communities like these, are not owned by one person, but more the collective members that occupy, it’s those that make the relevance.

Thanks to all the members that emailed me by the way, I certainly wasn’t expecting that, but your words were very much appreciated. And contrary to what certain detractors may wish to believe, it was a moral stance on my behalf, nothing more, and nothing less. I’ve come to the conclusion if certain people wish to ban me, then I’ll endeavour to make it as difficult as possible for them to find a valid reason. I must admit though, the real beauty of this website is it’s members, regardless of which side of the fence they sit. After sampling a different forum for the last few days, nothing touches Evo-Web for the intellect, humour and articulate nature of the majority of its posters. And many thanks to Tom for the lovely card and chocolates, but honestly, you really shouldn’t have bothered.

Anyway, I’d just like to offer my own opinion on this whole ‘Green Zone’ issue that has been brought to the fore in recent times. Firstly, I tried this last night and experienced exactly what people had mentioned, and it does just seem to be a minor glitch in the new defensive system. I really don’t see this as a major issue, and nothing that cannot be rectified with a relevant patch. I can honestly say that it isn’t anything that would affect me personally. For all the obvious reasons, it isn’t something that will have any bearing online or locally against a human player. I like to be creative in PES, I play football how I like it to be played out, and PES 2011 gives me personally the ability to be more creative on the field than ever before. This ‘Green Zone’ problem is only really an issue if you make it one. If someone feels the need to cheat the CPU Ai with this glitch, then that is his or her own prerogative. The bottom-line is that the only person your cheating is yourself as far as I’m concerned.

After more extensive play with the PES 2011 demo, I’m finding that the AI has been increased quite extensively compared to PES 2010, which in itself, was head and shoulders above anything previous in the series. This new Management Edit screen really does give you so much more control in every area. It also dictates quite dramatically how the CPU AI performs against you. It’s not only the individual nature of each teams respective players that has an influence on how a game pans out, the individual playing styles of each team via this preset tactical set-up has a huge bearing. Although I only have access to the four teams on the demo, it’s very clear to see by simply looking in the Management Edit screen, that each team has very unique preset tactical strategies that are set in motion during play dependant on circumstance.

This is very clever stuff from an AI perspective, and the reason why the matches produce this very clear ebb and flow. Matches can become stretched, as the CPU changes tactics at varying intervals throughout the match depending on whether or not they are behind, level or trailing. In PES 2010, we had the inclusion of Player Cards and the other strategies that were slider based, in PES 2011 Konami really have taken the tactical side of the game to a much higher level with this Management Edit. The individuality has always been the heart of PES, and in previous games (especially old gen) it was literally all about the players. It was in effect those players that made every team feel different with every consequential game different from the last. This new tactical side really does give all the teams a much greater level on individuality, and a lot of the strategies, if you look, are formation and player based. When people talk about game engines, for me this type of attention to detail combined with the limitless calculated variables, is makes Konami’s ‘engine’ very special indeed.

I have also read people having issues with getting their players to make runs. I have honestly never seen any issue whatsoever with this. I can only assume that it’s because I must play the game differently to those that are having the issues. Maybe people just expect to be able to pass the ball from one end of the pitch to the other in the quickest time possible. PES doesn’t promote this style of play; it promotes progressive build-up play, utilising your player’s strengths, and playing possession football, which is the name of the game. I personally don’t feel that pressing a button at any given time, to make your player make a run is in anyway realistic. And those of you, who have played competitive football in real-life, should know only too well the frustrations you feel as a player on the pitch in this regard. You rely on intelligent runs, but for the most part, you don’t get them handed on a plate. The very same principles apply for strikers making runs. Nothing is more frustrating than making a perfectly timed run alongside the defensive line only to find your team-mate has failed to see your run and missed the window of opportunity. There are so many options available in PES 2011, but you really need to see them, not instigate them. The plethora of tactical variations open to player is massive; it’s all about understanding them and using them effectively to compliment your intended style of play.
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romagnoli said:
Ern Dog - the greyed out areas in your picture demonstration aren't where the player will drop to - they show you where the player can play. Unless I've missed something - I can't really look at the pic from work.
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Yes they show where he can play but it also shows the areas of the pitch he is most likely to occupy and where he will press effectively. Hence why, when combined with his stats, he drops back into that position when the Barca back line is soo high up.

Also about the player switching, yes it is shockingly bad at times, mainly from manual oasses but I find this quite rare. I think the problem people have is not timing the switch correctly, you have to wait for the ball to come into the players proximity who you want to switch to. Try experimenting with your timing, I think its ok for the most part.
 
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Downloaded the Winning Eleven demo in the morning and if that it is the final build I am extremely happy!

For the first time in a good few years I shall be choosing PES and PES only, its simply a joy to play. The graphics need to improve a little, but even in their current state they are pretty good and the player proportions and likenesses are better than their rival imo.
 
Wow so many quality posts in the past couple of hours. Thanks to everybody who posted and gave their tips and insights. Would just like to share my opinions.

Ern Dog said:
OK all you willfully ignorant people lets see what proper team management can do for you.

So the AI does not make use of space or make runs huh?

Its all down to good team management, these pics were taken with the ball at almost the same place on the pitch each time, I played the ball from the CB's to the RB then back to the CB's and out to Badstuber at LB and moved him into roughly the same position. The different positions and attitude of the other players is down to gameplan tweaking. The teams come preset but that setting will not work for every team, if any, it is up to you to get your team playing right by being able to spot the problems and react to them, that is what a manager does and is what makes the game soo good, it is not just about pressing a few buttons to knock a ball from player to player.
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This post is exactly what I was formulating in my head, but maybe couldn't figure out how exactly to put it down into words, but you have said it excellently. And the effort you took to take those pics, and explain everything. Kudos to you Ern Dog. I agree totally. This game has got so much depth to it. I feel like I'm learning new things about it every day I play. Like Ern Dog said, sure if you wanna just press a few buttons and knock it around you can. But if you want to get the most out of this game, you really have to explore the various tactical options available to you. The differences in play when the team is leading or trailing, when you set different tactics,is all very clear to see.

Jimmy G-Force said:
There are so many different ways in PES 2011 to dribble and perform tricks/feints/body swerves etc etc.

Right Stick by itself - Simple feints, step-overs, body-swerves etc. These are all pretty much related to the player and his dribbling, technique, agility and body balance stats. The higher those levels are, the more they can attempt with the Right Stick alone.

Right Stick and a direction and L1-These are the feints/tricks that you preset via the Feint Link screen. I have always only set one feint per direction, but after playing around with this system, I have now bought into the mutiple feints per direction. Although I still find applying 4 to be a little unrealistic and 'arcadey', I'm really seeing the benefit of appying 2, as long as they compliment each other. For example, Dragback, followed by Stepover. I only ever use the subtle feints though when I link them. They look more realistic, and I can now appreciate the thinking behind this system linking two together, it happens in real life generally if you think about it. Especially the subtle ones, I'm not talking Inside Bounce followed by a stupid Rainbow Flick. ( Are you listening Zee ? :CONFUSE: )

Right Stick and a direction with L2- These are feints/tricks that are player specific and relate to the skill Player Cards. For example, Iniesta has Drag Roll as a Player Card, and pressing L2+ left on the Right Stick will perform this with him, but it wont with Puyol. Using the L2+ Right Stick direction will give you different feints/tricks based soley on the player your controlling and his stats. Defenders for example may have only one simple feint with this system, and you have to work out what direction on the Right Stick with L2 performs it. I dont use this system alot, and wont until I know in my own mind my players and what they do, otherwise it's all guess work.

R2 with a direction on the Left Stick- This is utilise the close control option and keep the ball close to your body. In tight situations, with 'dribblers' or high technique players, just move the Left Stick in the direction you wish to move the ball whilst holding R2. Very effective, and criminally over-looked by many.

R2- Hold R2 as the pass approaches to left your player let the ball run through. Time it right, and you use the momentum of the pass to keep the ball moving as you player opens his body up. Also great for first-touch control, especially with high technique players.

Left Stick- Excellent for body-swerves, shoulder feints, and very subtle changes in direction with players with high technique and dribbling skills. Just move the stick from one relevant direction to it's opposite to see your player drop his shoulder, or use his two feet to go outside and back inside. Great for wrong-footing the opposition as you shift your weight.

Hope this helps......
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Firstly, welcome back Jimmy! This post shows why the forum still needs people like you, because you take the effort to write long posts explaining your views and also try to help out people. Thanks for that post. I also use R2 a lot, and the first touch control and the dribbling close control you get with that is just great. And like you mentioned in another post, using the left stick with players with high agility and dribbling stats is just wonderful.

Jimmy G-Force said:
Tap it down four times, four is way too much though, you will just end up conceding possession after linking two, but that's the risk for trying to be a Flash Harry. Not worth it really, two linked feints is more than enough.

I checked again last night in the Management Edit screen Dags, and Barcelona and Bayern have completely different strategies when trailing or level in the game. I assume they are both formation and style specific, the only tactic they have similar is CB overlap. The variety that this system will generate for each and every team depending on match circumstance is beyond vast. :)
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Hmm don't you have to tap the direction just once? and it will just do the feints in the order you've set them. That's why it's advisable to not have more than a couple isn't it? Because you can't stop them midway, and you are bound to lose possession.

And again, the management edit screen is just marvellous. Really appreciate what Konami has done. For all the gripes about AI and all, here is one perfect example of what Konami has gotten right. I'm playing on PC using the 24 teams patch, and using Manchester United and the pre-set tactics(I didnt have to change them cuz they work perfectly), I have had some great matches. In there, their play is set to quick counter and possesion(offence), which is exactly how they play in real life.

To those of you complaining about how players don't make use of space, just try to change the management edit tactics. With those tactics set, my wingers, right backs and forwards all make intelligent runs off the ball into space, offering so many options sometimes I'm spoilt for choice! so much so that it's more about whether I'm able to spot the pass fast enough or get caught offside. If I dont spot them, I just build slowly again. And they are clever enough to check their runs if they know they are going offside sometimes as well! And Scholes is just such a joy to watch. Try spraying manual long passes around with him. Just mindblowing watching them come off.

Those of you who want the players to play exactly how you want gotta be a bit more realistic. Even in real life, players wont do exactly what you want them to do at all times, what more a game. The thing is to be creative and see what options are actually presented to you, and make use of that. Having said that, playing around with the tactics does help a huge deal in having the team play the way you want it to, really. If you can't or don't see the tactical options available, I feel you aren't going to be able to really enjoy this game. However, if you open up your mind to the possibilities this game offers, you will have a very very rewarding experience.
 
shank118 said:
Hmm don't you have to tap the direction just once? and it will just do the feints in the order you've set them. That's why it's advisable to not have more than a couple isn't it? Because you can't stop them midway, and you are bound to lose possession.
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You may well be right with that one Shanks, it's the only one I wasnt 100% sure of. I thought I had pressed the direction twice for the two-link feint, but I guess it would happen that way anyway, after just the one press if thats the case.

Edit - Ern Dog, fantastic post by the way.
 
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