zeemeister
foxy engine
FGS the default settings are keeping the players in that position. If it was changed from "possesion game defensive" the players would not stand there.
PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
h3li0
League 1
- 13 August 2008
Just happend something very nice right now 
, i was playing england vs portugal, and ronaldo makes a dive in the area and get yellowed. Great stuf in individualitty.
As for the ones saying the player runs has to do with the player itself, yes they are but sometimes they don´t do it.
For example Ronaldo do it a lot more than Danny in Portugal for an example, but if i set my tatic to attack just by the wings, they do the same runs as if if i set my tactis to attack by the middle.
In this game i was playing i was with deco, and danny was all alone in the left, and he stopped, and stay still until i pass the ball to him instead of runnig down the line so i can have the option to pass the ball in front of him. But no instead i stay still, and then when i pass the ball to him the defence just covered the way i´m going.
Its this runs that i´m talking about. Every player in the world know that if you got the left all free, you don´t stand still near the midfield line expecting the pass, you just run down the line so you get passed and make the cross or come inside for a crossed shoot.
But its very noticeable that some players make more runs than others, but there are situations where it should not depend, if its ronaldo or lets say bruno alves, the player just have to make a run.
, i was playing england vs portugal, and ronaldo makes a dive in the area and get yellowed. Great stuf in individualitty. As for the ones saying the player runs has to do with the player itself, yes they are but sometimes they don´t do it.
For example Ronaldo do it a lot more than Danny in Portugal for an example, but if i set my tatic to attack just by the wings, they do the same runs as if if i set my tactis to attack by the middle.
In this game i was playing i was with deco, and danny was all alone in the left, and he stopped, and stay still until i pass the ball to him instead of runnig down the line so i can have the option to pass the ball in front of him. But no instead i stay still, and then when i pass the ball to him the defence just covered the way i´m going.
Its this runs that i´m talking about. Every player in the world know that if you got the left all free, you don´t stand still near the midfield line expecting the pass, you just run down the line so you get passed and make the cross or come inside for a crossed shoot.
But its very noticeable that some players make more runs than others, but there are situations where it should not depend, if its ronaldo or lets say bruno alves, the player just have to make a run.
Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
Just wondering, are the people that are in here constantly nitpicking, known ardent FIFA fans?
It seems to me that alot of the "faults" constantly being thrown up are ones that when you spend enough time with the game figure out that are not actually faults at all, but just the fact that the game takes a bit of time to adjust to, like all the previous good PES games.
I can imagine these people have the same attittude I had last year when trying out the PES demo, of going into it with my mind pretty much made up that I dont like the game because the other game is better and just trying to spot things to affirm my preconcieved notions and then turn it off.
It is ashame because, in my experience atleast, it really took some time for the real beauty of the game to shows its self.
It seems to me that alot of the "faults" constantly being thrown up are ones that when you spend enough time with the game figure out that are not actually faults at all, but just the fact that the game takes a bit of time to adjust to, like all the previous good PES games.
I can imagine these people have the same attittude I had last year when trying out the PES demo, of going into it with my mind pretty much made up that I dont like the game because the other game is better and just trying to spot things to affirm my preconcieved notions and then turn it off.
It is ashame because, in my experience atleast, it really took some time for the real beauty of the game to shows its self.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Ribery then proceeds to make a well-timed, curved run to exploit the space between the midfield and defensive lines (as any top attacking player should) and punishes the opposition for it. So you can take from that video what you want.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
I didn't say it happens 100% of the time, I was showing a couple of examples of the kind of thing that I see often when playing the demo with any of the four teams.
You want more? I can do more.
The obvious similarity of the above two, taken five match-minutes apart, do not show a particularly organic, active or inventive AI.
If the teams are set up badly, call Mr Seabass. I think it's telling when people come back with: "set your team to super-offensive to make them run". That's missing the point. I don't want them to be more attacking, I want them to position themselves more intelligently.
The point I was trying to make is that I feel, generally speaking, that the AI is not very active or aware in naturally seeking space that I would expect them to seek. This has a negative impact on the way the game plays and feels, for me.
There's probably little point me trying to express this further. If you don't see it, you don't see it. I don't agree that there are any excuses for why van Bommel isn't dropping into those acres of space behind him, or why Ribery isn't drifting wide for a simple option down the line, regardless of tactical instructions. That's just football.
I dont see any problem with either of those pictures ? How about dropping inside and looking for the option square on both pictures, the second picture he would become available. Then look to send the fullback yourself with L1+X or R2 ? Why do you feel the ball has to always go forward in that situation, when using the option inside is the most common pass ?
zeemeister
foxy engine
I didn't say it happens 100% of the time, I was showing a couple of examples of the kind of thing that I see often when playing the demo with any of the four teams.
You want more? I can do more.
The obvious similarity of the above two, taken five match-minutes apart, do not show a particularly organic, active or inventive AI.
If the teams are set up badly, call Mr Seabass
The point I was trying to make is that I feel, generally speaking, that the AI is not very active or aware in naturally seeking space that I would expect them to seek. This has a negative impact on the way the game plays and feels, for me.
There's probably little point me trying to express this further. If you don't see it, you don't see it. I don't agree that there are any excuses for why van Bommel isn't dropping into those acres of space behind him, or why Ribery isn't drifting wide for a simple option down the line, or why the three of them stand on each others toes, regardless of whether the tactical instructions could be altered to this or that. That's just football.
Okay sorry I just realised you refuse to accept that
the problem you have with the game can be fixed with the push of 5 buttons.
I feel like a moron for entertaining you, Goodnight and god bless.
Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
I see the point you are making using those screen shots, in a still picture a payer is not going to move! I just dont see it myself when playing the game. My DMF's always move bacckwards into space and the wide men move out to the side lines.
I think you are being intentionally hard on the game with regards to this, you have the ability to change things so do, dont complain about it when its not really an issue. Its like me saying that FIFA is crap because the assisted passing makes the game way too easy, even though I have the option to go and change it to 2 other settings to cater to my taste.
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nerf
Forming triangles
Oh Jimmy
. I don't want to always go forward, and I don't want my fullback to overlap.There's no reason or explanation for why three of my teammates are standing in the same position in the first place, and then not dispersing when there's obvious space (in all directions) for them to spread into. It's clear on all of the screenshots, please don't make me start attempting an impression of Andy Gray with arrows...
But this should not happen with any tactical instruction, surely? No tactical instruction makes a striker, a winger and a defensive midfielder all group together behind Messi instead of creating alternative passing angles around Messi to assist the player on the ball. Particularly a setting with "possession" in the title.
Besides, like I said, these are just extreme examples of a problem I've experienced with all four demo teams, not just Bayern. It's a general flaw I see in the AI. If it doesn't affect the game for you, good for you
. Personally, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Oh Jimmy
There's no reason or explanation for why three of my teammates are standing in the same position in the first place, and then not dispersing when there's obvious space (in all directions) for them to spread into. It's clear on all of the screenshots, please don't make me start attempting an impression of Andy Gray with arrows...
But this should not happen with any tactical instruction, surely? No tactical instruction makes a striker, a winger and a defensive midfielder all group together behind Messi instead of creating alternative passing angles around Messi to assist the player on the ball. Particularly a setting with "possession" in the title.
Besides, like I said, these are just extreme examples of a problem I've experienced with all four demo teams, not just Bayern. It's a general flaw I see in the AI. If it doesn't affect the game for you, good for you
Do they do that and stay there? Or does it happen for a moment then the game moves on? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with a still pic. I can show you the weirdest positioning taken from a real game in a still pic, that's not really that hard to do. It's like taking things out of context.
You need a video to prove your point, and the players should do that all the time as well.
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henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
I don't know about the others but I was always a PES-player since PES 3 on PS2, the only PES-games I didn't buy were PES 2008 and PES 2009. Even during that dark time I didn't go to Fifa I merely continued to play PES 5 until PES 2010 came along which kept me seven months long away from PES 5 but then I returned to that... PES 2011 seems like a big step up from PES 2010.
But nonetheless I'm not blind to what's still missing to make PES again a force to be reckoned with and besides getting rid of bugs, goalkeeper-animation, atmosphere, commentary and advantage rule, it's getting the own teammember's AI to be more aware of situation and space and to make the most of it.
For a while I thought I could change tactics and what not to bring them to do what they were supposed to but it helped only little: I erased all presets, set the team to an offensive formation of 3:2:2:2, I set the strategy to all out attack, I used the sliders to pump up player-support to 20, upped the ability to change positions, and a lot of other things... but to not much avail:
When I need them the most to make certain runs they simply refuse, often even in clear-cut-counter-attacks where it's the most natural thing to do would be to run through.. but no halfway they stop eventhough it would have guaranteed a goal... and it's not only in forward-runs or counterattacks, it's also in midfield positioning... most of the time they remain on their positions eventhough it would have been better to be mobile, to be active..
and after pondering about I came to the conclusion that the reason why that is the way it is is because Konami wants to keep score-results somewhat realistic and therefore actively prevents many opportunities.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Why are people being so hostile toward Nerf for pointing out an issue that has been noticed by many people, on these forums and elsewhere. Playing with a friend the other night the one thing he brought up was how the AI treated space - sometimes it can be like watching youth matches, with kids either bunching up or standing around.
Like nerf said, this basic stuff shouldn't be determined by team tactics - it'd be like players not jumping for headers and blaming it on team settings. Maybe this has been altered for the final game?
For me, I personally haven't had problems to the point of it being a gamebreaker, but I certainly notice issues here and there. Like I said elsewhere, the thing I notice the most is that it can look like your players' heads are in the clouds and not participating in the run of play as you'd think a player might, whether it's moving toward a loose ball, making forward, backward, sideways, whatever runs. Anyways, nerf you're not alone.
Like nerf said, this basic stuff shouldn't be determined by team tactics - it'd be like players not jumping for headers and blaming it on team settings. Maybe this has been altered for the final game?
For me, I personally haven't had problems to the point of it being a gamebreaker, but I certainly notice issues here and there. Like I said elsewhere, the thing I notice the most is that it can look like your players' heads are in the clouds and not participating in the run of play as you'd think a player might, whether it's moving toward a loose ball, making forward, backward, sideways, whatever runs. Anyways, nerf you're not alone.
pablofortinero09
League 2
- 17 June 2010
I hope the pirate play3 let me relinked the Libertadores Cup teams in all competitions
sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
Can't count how many times this has happened. Instead of helping me out the ai runs away from the ball, allowing the CPU to get possession.
What 'tactic' can I change to fix that?
What 'tactic' can I change to fix that?
Can't count how many times this has happened. Instead of helping me out the ai runs away from the ball, allowing the CPU to get possession.
What 'tactic' can I change to fix that?
tactic: push button to change player?!
sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
I did press L1, want to guess what happened? Check out my earlier posts, I said that I wouldnt have a problem with dumb teammates if the switching worked properly (it's on semi assisted btw)
I posted the same thing a few pages back. A new engine is badly needed for this series.
dmxdex2020
Premier League
The AI dont make enough runs for my liking.
Can't count how many times this has happened. Instead of helping me out the ai runs away from the ball, allowing the CPU to get possession.
What 'tactic' can I change to fix that?
In this same pic, I can also see teammates making use of space, apart from the dumb "WTF" move.
And the guys calling for a new engine, are yous programmers by any chance? Because I'm not and I have the slightest idea how that works. If you are one and you know what you are talking about then please enlighten us with more detailed info based on your expertise on the definition of a "new engine" and how it all works. Thank you.
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yeah, that's the problem with cards system
I wonder if Seabass and co ever played FM or such, if they want to enhance the tactical aspect of the game, why not learn from FM?
Just the fact that this engine uses completely face textures to apply a face tells us that this engine is from 2000 xD
Just get a real engine and physics engine.... wouldn't doubt that it is possible to program with a REAL engine ^^
EDIT:
Aren't they using euphoria engine as physics engine? it is the best available on the market... I did have a look on the new NHL11 real-time engine... also looks very nice.
Just get a real engine and physics engine.... wouldn't doubt that it is possible to program with a REAL engine ^^
EDIT:
Aren't they using euphoria engine as physics engine? it is the best available on the market... I did have a look on the new NHL11 real-time engine... also looks very nice.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I too would love to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about regarding the game engine PES uses. I know nothing myself so I'll stop short of suggesting PES needs a new one, but I wouldn't be a surprised if it does since Seabass specifically said they have only rewritten certain parts of the game rather than starting at square one, when FIFA and other next gen games have since upgraded. I'd imagine PES will need a new engine sooner rather than later, but like I said, I don't know jack about programming games and engines.
Lami, regarding the wtf run in sincover's video, I think the issue is not player runs, because it appears to be a loose ball situation, but rather the player making the "wtf" run is the player you'd like to see go toward the ball as he's best positioned of all players on that team to get there. Because the player does not go toward the ball the other team gains possession. There's just no logical explanation why a player would run away from the ball in that situation.
:lol: another reason why the game need a brand new engine, that flaw has been there since the 1st gen of WE/PES on PLAYSTATION 2!!!Can't count how many times this has happened. Instead of helping me out the ai runs away from the ball, allowing the CPU to get possession.
What 'tactic' can I change to fix that?
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Not so sure about that - bugs, quirks and programming errors are in every video game. But again, I'll defer to the experts if we have any reading this thread who'd like to comment.
sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
Yup, this is what I meant. I have zero problems with my teammates ability to run into space etc. My main gripe with the game is the lack of 'desire' that your AI teammates possess. Notice that the CPU's midfielder gladly pounced on the ball (as expected), while my teammate stood there for a while, then ran in the opposite direction of the flow of play.
yes there are bugs in all games, but annual sports games are exceptions in that how they must release the game every years so that certain bugs are simply inherited by the game from years to years.
that is the problem with PES, Konami overused the engine by adding more features but neglecting the fact that the core is simply old and plagued with the same bugs over the years
or perhaps they're not exactly bugs but a deliberately created handicap mechanism that originally created to compensate the lack of resources at that time when the original engine being created.
basically recent PESes cases are what FIFA could have been if instead of using a new engine, EA simply added more features to their old gen engine
mmeny
Premiership League
I just downloaded the WE11, it seems like the player movement is a lot smoother and fluid compared to the PES 2011.
Maybe its just me but has anyone noticed during corner kicks the CPU tends to win majority of the headers than your controlled players. Thought most of them don't end up in the back of the net but it just seems like no matter they tend to get their heads on the ball a lot more than you do...
Maybe its just me but has anyone noticed during corner kicks the CPU tends to win majority of the headers than your controlled players. Thought most of them don't end up in the back of the net but it just seems like no matter they tend to get their heads on the ball a lot more than you do...
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
YouTube - Ribery off ball run
Look how ribery almost gets in the way of the player with the ball by running in the wrong direction.
Then just before ribery shoots look at the winger in the top of the screen just completely stop instead of moving into the space ahead if him thanks for the video to prove our point
Look how ribery almost gets in the way of the player with the ball by running in the wrong direction.
Then just before ribery shoots look at the winger in the top of the screen just completely stop instead of moving into the space ahead if him thanks for the video to prove our point
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
It's just a pet-theory of mine, but I think Konami deliberately programmed the teammembers to not run through in certain key situations in order to prevent high score-results.
D
DagsJT
Guest
The same happens to me as well, whereas when I take a corner, it seems just as likely that I'll get the header (if not more likely I will).
pboreham
Kick. Snare. Hat. Ride.
Dags, in the 'full' version you have, can you choose a normal camera angle, rather than the one in the demo that shows the final 1/3rds at an angle?