embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
But in the latest game they rarely do it if ever and even run back the way sometimes even after i have adjusted the strategy to set to play wide down the wings at high attacking.
PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
oh and ps i fractured my foot 4 weeks ago playing soccer so i have played plenty too.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
He only answered a question. I really dont believe he will ever incorporate Fifa's system, that would go against his philosophy. Everything in PES is pretty much AI related. Last year we had Player Cards that could be set to make wingers or SB's automatically attacking. This option is missing from the PES 2011 demo, so maybe, not sure till the full release, it would seem this year, he is looking at it being player specific. Not all fullbacks have the mentality of Ashley Cole , Maicon or Glen Johnson. This in effect is taking individuality a step further. You still have the option to set your team to offensive so any fullback or winger will push forward, but it will be at a cost, i.e. your whole team pushing forward. Alternatively you can increase your attacking sliders with Select and R1 or R2. This again will have a similar effect.
I've already posted my reasons as to why this current system mimics realism.
There isnt always an available option open in real life, hence the reason go back and start again. To be able to press a button and make all your players rush forward isnt realistic in my book, and it doesnt require any thought. Knocking the ball back or square and looking for the next decent run is what football is all about. Play PES in this way and you really wont have an issue.
I'm not trying to sound like a dick Fernandez when I say learn to play the game, I just genuinely have no issues at all with player runs, and I really dont know what else to say.
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PATe.Arminia
Banned
- 20 June 2007
- DSC Arminia Bielefeld
PES 3 was more arcade than 5, surely. Of course PES 3 was quite perfect if we consider the possibilities back then, but PES 5 was surely an evolution of it.
I see PES 4 worse than 3 tho.
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
The game is still the best of a bad bunch but ti still needs work that's all
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
I am not talking about PES3.
WE7I the Japanese version not US was way better than PES3 and agreed better then PES4.
WE7I the Japanese version not US was way better than PES3 and agreed better then PES4.
diego_robinho
Conference
Copa Santander Libertadores!
Finally this South American Champions League makes it to the Pro Evolution Soccer Series.
I think this is a great addition, bringing a number of great South American clubs to the game and a great competition.
Finally this South American Champions League makes it to the Pro Evolution Soccer Series.
I think this is a great addition, bringing a number of great South American clubs to the game and a great competition.
The cards are still in 2011. I still think the Cards are a great addition. In real football the coach can also tell a player to change style of play. That's where the cards are for. year ago when they were introduced. People were calling them pokemon cards(i Think it was Suffwan from WENB). I think those people don't understand the philosophy behind it. It happens in real life, instead of cards the coach just tells the player to change style of play. For example; telling wingers to cut in.
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
What about players who don't have cards even in my sunday league the shit wingers still make forward runs
WE7i was my fav as well.
i feel like im knocking my head against a wall a little. i've said it b4, i have no issue with building up play, going backwards, keeping possession. before i stopped playing pes, my fav playerr was pirlo, my current in real life is huddlestone, my dad brought me up on hoddle.
if theres no forward option i love going back recycling, keeping possesion. my issue is that when breaking forward, i dont expect my players to make half a run then go backwards, or my FB not to push up into 50 yards of space down the line. i only call for L1 (fifa style) to combat what the AI isnt and should be doing.
maybe i can see passes and opportunities others cant, but i belive that the runs in particular situations, are not as good as they was way back on the ps2, and are now in fifa.
i still believe that this is the best football game i have played on the ps3. but all time? too early to say and we7i will take some beating.
i feel like im knocking my head against a wall a little. i've said it b4, i have no issue with building up play, going backwards, keeping possession. before i stopped playing pes, my fav playerr was pirlo, my current in real life is huddlestone, my dad brought me up on hoddle.
if theres no forward option i love going back recycling, keeping possesion. my issue is that when breaking forward, i dont expect my players to make half a run then go backwards, or my FB not to push up into 50 yards of space down the line. i only call for L1 (fifa style) to combat what the AI isnt and should be doing.
maybe i can see passes and opportunities others cant, but i belive that the runs in particular situations, are not as good as they was way back on the ps2, and are now in fifa.
i still believe that this is the best football game i have played on the ps3. but all time? too early to say and we7i will take some beating.
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
I cant wait to get the real game play master league then really tinker with my team hope it gets better
unbornchikkenvoices
League 2
- 21 April 2002
Re: Copa Santander Libertadores!
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mr5973
League 2
is it possible to turn off the silly player shouting on the pitch ("pass over here" etc.)?
Dr Force
Golden Boot Winner
Jimmy................errr.............you are back????
Great post and totally agree
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Something we do agree on,you also have the one-two(l1+x) mechanic which allows you to command attacks and trigger offensive runs from fullbacks and other players and if your quick you can actually manually create passing triangles,i prefer this manual method and do it so much now friends think i have a button to do this like fifa because its un-noticable from a normal pass when i do it,you just have to be quick and again its about skill and timing.
Preparing some vids jim of the spin mechanic in pes2011,i hope your prepared to eat humble pie
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Personally I'm fine with player movement in general but it's not perfect. When there's so many people having problems with it, I think it's only fair to consider that it might be an issue needing to be addressed, whether it be improving the AI runs/movement or making it easier for people to see those runs. I agree with Jimmy that Konami's approach is superior to FIFA's relying on the LB player run modifier button - ideally the AI would mimic real player runs, which means that players will tend to run into open space when it makes sense to do so. HOWEVER, like Jimmy said, players IRL don't always make the correct decisions, i.e. making ill-times runs as well as missing opportunities to exploit empty space.
The key here, which Seabass even says, is whether or not Konami can succeed at making the AI advanced enough to make a player run button unnecessary. Seems to me that there's enough people having problems that this debate is not yet settled but I think Konami's approach is the correct one and we should give them at least one more chance before resorting to something like FIFA's method - after all, FIFA's run modifier button is basically a self-admission that their AI is not advanced enough.
I will say, though, there does seem to be some issues with movement in a more general sense, in that players seem to have trouble at times reacting to the play going on around them or even to the ball - I recently had a situation where a deflected pass hit Ibra in the knees and he didn't respond at all. Not infrequently do I also see situations, even near the goal mouth, where players do not react at all to a loose ball. This to me isn't so much an issue with player AI, or at least how advanced/intelligent it is, but with the basic issues of players "noticing" the ball and reacting to it. Honestly, I don't know enough about programming to say more than I do notice a lack of movement/player responses at times.
This is from a few pages back but I just wanted to say what a fantastic post and I hope everyone has the chance to read it. I completely agree about the differences between the two games and it's an argument I've been trying to impress on people who've been bashing FIFA on the other side of the forums, although I've done it less eloquently and effectively no doubt - FIFA is probably deserving of its high ratings (well, some of them at least, certainly not a 10/10 imo) because for what it is trying to do it does really really well. But like Jimmy said, FIFA is approaching football from a different angle, and I know that personally, as a former PES only gamer, it can be very difficult accepting FIFA's choices in gameplay direction.
I especially like the sentence in bold because as simple as it sounds I had never thought of my experience with FIFA in this light, although I'll add a twist to Jimmy's statement: many of the least content members (I think I might fall into that group, though I feel the winds a' changing this year) are those that left PES, like myself, for FIFA 08 but have never truly accepted FIFA for what it tries to be nor have been able to forget what in the past made PES so special. FIFA may be considered by the majority the best football game ever, but I can't help feeling like I'm swimming against the current when I try to talk "sense" into the folk on the EA official forums. I'm excited to play this year's FIFA but I already know I'll be more content than before with PES a more than viable, and surely superior for some (and maybe me), alternative to FIFA this year.
The key here, which Seabass even says, is whether or not Konami can succeed at making the AI advanced enough to make a player run button unnecessary. Seems to me that there's enough people having problems that this debate is not yet settled but I think Konami's approach is the correct one and we should give them at least one more chance before resorting to something like FIFA's method - after all, FIFA's run modifier button is basically a self-admission that their AI is not advanced enough.
I will say, though, there does seem to be some issues with movement in a more general sense, in that players seem to have trouble at times reacting to the play going on around them or even to the ball - I recently had a situation where a deflected pass hit Ibra in the knees and he didn't respond at all. Not infrequently do I also see situations, even near the goal mouth, where players do not react at all to a loose ball. This to me isn't so much an issue with player AI, or at least how advanced/intelligent it is, but with the basic issues of players "noticing" the ball and reacting to it. Honestly, I don't know enough about programming to say more than I do notice a lack of movement/player responses at times.
This is from a few pages back but I just wanted to say what a fantastic post and I hope everyone has the chance to read it. I completely agree about the differences between the two games and it's an argument I've been trying to impress on people who've been bashing FIFA on the other side of the forums, although I've done it less eloquently and effectively no doubt - FIFA is probably deserving of its high ratings (well, some of them at least, certainly not a 10/10 imo) because for what it is trying to do it does really really well. But like Jimmy said, FIFA is approaching football from a different angle, and I know that personally, as a former PES only gamer, it can be very difficult accepting FIFA's choices in gameplay direction.
I especially like the sentence in bold because as simple as it sounds I had never thought of my experience with FIFA in this light, although I'll add a twist to Jimmy's statement: many of the least content members (I think I might fall into that group, though I feel the winds a' changing this year) are those that left PES, like myself, for FIFA 08 but have never truly accepted FIFA for what it tries to be nor have been able to forget what in the past made PES so special. FIFA may be considered by the majority the best football game ever, but I can't help feeling like I'm swimming against the current when I try to talk "sense" into the folk on the EA official forums. I'm excited to play this year's FIFA but I already know I'll be more content than before with PES a more than viable, and surely superior for some (and maybe me), alternative to FIFA this year.
Many are complaining about that, so it might be a bug or just not implemented. it has nothing to do with the cards.
To be fair though Tobi I never had a problem with the kids. I always played them whenever I wanted and they never had a problem with that. The only ones who gave me problems were Anton Ferdinand, Andy Reid, and some other dude who I sold, can't remember who now.
?
If you mean let us press on a button that would trigger another player to run then no thanks. I like Seabass' ideology as it is and keep everything based on a player's AI.
It looks like you got it all wrong. What Seabass meant is that he would like the runs be based on AI, not a button trigger. Meaning he likes the way it is right now and that's how it always was, based on player AI, because it adds to individuality. He never said he's still going to work on it and it's not in already. I've the slightest idea what you are on about really.
I'm not saying it's perfect in 2011.
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embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
I thought the EU version was out Oct 1st
stuartyd
Premier League
- 11 October 2004
courtesy of wenb of update man chack out these pics
http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/wenb-pes-2011-of-update/
Is this just from an option file (ie not a patch)?
Can I get this for the Xbox and still play online?
nerf
Forming triangles
For the last time, those of us who have highlighted an issue with AI off-the-ball movement in the PES2011 demo are NOT talking about a lack of FORWARD runs. Forget the word 'forward' completely.
The problem is a lack of awareness of and use of space, in situations where you expect them to make movements to get open, to find gaps between opponents, and most of all to create good spacing between teammates.
As I've already posted, I see this sort of thing a lot:
That is not good use of space, or of width, or of intelligent movement to create an angle to receive a pass. Three players are giving me the same 'option'; you wouldn't see that in real life. No matter what my tactics could theoretically be set to, they shouldn't do that!
The LB/L1 trigger run button in FIFA is a facility with which to specifically trigger a FORWARD run. It says to your teammate: attempt an incisive run so I can play you in behind the defender. It does not come into the conversation when talking about the general effort of your teammates toward making themselves available for passes in any direction, nor to maintain intelligent spacing.
The problem is a lack of awareness of and use of space, in situations where you expect them to make movements to get open, to find gaps between opponents, and most of all to create good spacing between teammates.
As I've already posted, I see this sort of thing a lot:
That is not good use of space, or of width, or of intelligent movement to create an angle to receive a pass. Three players are giving me the same 'option'; you wouldn't see that in real life. No matter what my tactics could theoretically be set to, they shouldn't do that!
The LB/L1 trigger run button in FIFA is a facility with which to specifically trigger a FORWARD run. It says to your teammate: attempt an incisive run so I can play you in behind the defender. It does not come into the conversation when talking about the general effort of your teammates toward making themselves available for passes in any direction, nor to maintain intelligent spacing.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
I'm quite satisfied with the player runs and off the ball movement in PES2011. I play the demo mainly as Bayern and I'm often seeing Badstuber and Lahm making overlapping runs beyond Ribery and Robben. It's not a case of the fullbacks bombing forward with every attack, but if I slow down the play and hold up in the midfield then they will push forward to offer support down the flanks. Dani Alves is the best example of this in the demo.
I'm also seeing the centrebacks pushing forward on the odd occassion. I scored a lovely goal with Van Buyten when he burst into the penalty area after making a run from the halfway line. I put him through one-on-one and he managed a lovely finish. It reminded me of this Tony Adams classic:
YouTube - Tony Adams Wonder Goal
I agree with Seabass's philosophy on player runs - it should be in the hands of the AI. The last thing I want is the ability to trigger runs left, right and centre like the other game. Football is a team game and you have to rely on the intelligence of your team-mates to make runs or create space for themselves, and the vision and ability of the man in possession to deliver. I'm not saying PES is perfect in this regard - players are a little too static for my liking at times - but it does a pretty good job of it.
Edit: @ Expander - Manual after-touch categorically doe not exist in PES2011. A few minutes play is enough to know this, and if it did exist Konami would have certainly announced it as a new feature.
I'm also seeing the centrebacks pushing forward on the odd occassion. I scored a lovely goal with Van Buyten when he burst into the penalty area after making a run from the halfway line. I put him through one-on-one and he managed a lovely finish. It reminded me of this Tony Adams classic:
YouTube - Tony Adams Wonder Goal
I agree with Seabass's philosophy on player runs - it should be in the hands of the AI. The last thing I want is the ability to trigger runs left, right and centre like the other game. Football is a team game and you have to rely on the intelligence of your team-mates to make runs or create space for themselves, and the vision and ability of the man in possession to deliver. I'm not saying PES is perfect in this regard - players are a little too static for my liking at times - but it does a pretty good job of it.
Edit: @ Expander - Manual after-touch categorically doe not exist in PES2011. A few minutes play is enough to know this, and if it did exist Konami would have certainly announced it as a new feature.
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agreed with nerf, i don't see how you can defend something as unrealistic as the specific situations which he has screenshotted
the thing about trigger runs is that it may take away emphasis on the AI but you must realise that the AI is evidently not perfect and the run system is lacking because of the AI obviously not being good enough at making the decision to run when and where. Trigger runs bridges a gap atleast.
Kind of on topic but the AI in general pisses me off in the demo on many numerous levels with it either being inept in a way or me having to feel like i'm battling against the game because it wants to make a player do one thing but i want him to do the other (am i the only person who feels like this?)
I understand that by nature PES advocates a game dictated by AI but is it to too much? I've heard this game compared to PES6 in terms of AI which was another game in which i felt control was taken out of my hands and AI had too much of a say. Set 1p v 2p and leave the controller of 2P on the table and look how the AI controls the players on the other team even though nobody is touching any buttons.
the thing about trigger runs is that it may take away emphasis on the AI but you must realise that the AI is evidently not perfect and the run system is lacking because of the AI obviously not being good enough at making the decision to run when and where. Trigger runs bridges a gap atleast.
Kind of on topic but the AI in general pisses me off in the demo on many numerous levels with it either being inept in a way or me having to feel like i'm battling against the game because it wants to make a player do one thing but i want him to do the other (am i the only person who feels like this?)
I understand that by nature PES advocates a game dictated by AI but is it to too much? I've heard this game compared to PES6 in terms of AI which was another game in which i felt control was taken out of my hands and AI had too much of a say. Set 1p v 2p and leave the controller of 2P on the table and look how the AI controls the players on the other team even though nobody is touching any buttons.
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mr_man
League 1
- 20 October 2008
Anything a patch can't fix... right?
Did you have the sliders set so support is spread open and move away from the player with the ball - and not so the AI players bunch up and come close to the man with the ball?
D
DagsJT
Guest
To be fair, sliders shouldn't even come into play with those screenshots. Players should never be standing that close the way they are and common sense would mean the players made their own space rather than stand in a line.
Well that's a given but if you screw with the sliders or leave the AI to do thing that can contradict settings you've made - you get weird results.
I'm just wondering why it had happened. Was it because the support play or whatever setting is is, was set to compact play so bunches of team mates come towards you when you have the ball... or was it just default sliders and if so it then opens that problem up to all of us.
I'm just wondering why it had happened. Was it because the support play or whatever setting is is, was set to compact play so bunches of team mates come towards you when you have the ball... or was it just default sliders and if so it then opens that problem up to all of us.
Mark
il regista
- 8 August 2005
Yepa... those pics are from the WENB PS3 OF (no patch)... not quite sure about the online issue... maybe if both players using the same OF... but I'm not really into this whole online thingy...
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100% spot on.