PES 2011 Discussion thread

[_anderson]

Nice stuff I guess, Ronaldinho. What else can you tell us?

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Cracks? Arse cracks?? Instead of animal heads players will now be naked further adding to the realism of PES 2011. Combined with the improved graphics of which the series is famous for you will now be able to see all your favourite football stars completely naked!

no entiendo este post...
I do not understand this post ...

 

[BillyBoy]

no entiendo este post...
I do not understand this post ...

LOL!!! Dont worry Ronaldinho_23 it wasn't important. I was merely laughing at the crude attempt made by web translators.

 

[Jamezinho]

There's no reason why manual controls in either game have to remain unaffected by the footballer making the pass/shot/cross.

It's funny to read people say this about manual controls over here, because over on the FIFA forums people say assisted controls are arcadey and manual is realistic. Quite a few people there (some of whom post here) want assisted controls to be completely removed and for everyone to use the semi control scheme, which is missing the point. So I'm arguing a case for manual being realistic over here, and assisted over there..!

It's not the control scheme that makes passes go immaculately to feet when using assisted controls but the lack of attribute based error. Human error when playing with manual controls is what gives the illusion of realism in FIFA 10, when in fact the aspects that make assisted gameplay feel unrealistic are just as apparent in manual.

It'll be interesting to see what EA do to stop assisted gameplay being so relatively mindless - from what tidbits we've had so far they are certainly looking at making passing harder.

The problem with Fifa is that there is very little player individuality to start with, even on fully assisted. The way Fifa implements player stats into the gameplay is far too subtle, to the point that it's unnoticeable. So by going fully manual the player has nothing to lose, and if anything it's a way of making the best of a bad situation and breathing a bit of life into the game.

With PES it's the complete opposite. The things we love about the game could be lost by going fully manual, and because of this I completely understand the concerns of the fans. I think Konami know what they are doing, though, and the end result will still feel like PES.

What gives me hope that Konami can get manual controls right is the fact that PES has had a effective system of recreating player attributes for many years now. The player individuality is there to start with, although admittedly not quite what it once was.If Konami can use this base to build on then the end result could be much more realistic that Fifa's version of manual controls.

 

[Grayperview]

Not impressed with last weeks press release, just sounds like they are putting into pes what fifa has had for the last 3 years.

If they manage to do it with the fluidity of PES of old, it might turn out good tho.

Fifa is a great and has come a long way in the last 3 years, but it lacks that something that pes of old had. hopefully konami will get at least the core gameplay back on track this time.

 

[Andy]

LOL!!! Dont worry Ronaldinho_23 it wasn't important. I was merely laughing at the crude attempt made by web translators.

No Billy i think you may be onto something,i can see it now naked players with mo capped swinging todgers and nuts.

But with players like Drogba it will be harder to tell wether he's dived or stumbled over his middle wicket.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I'm not saying FIFA World Cup 2010 is a bad game, in fact it's the best FIFA game I've played, they've made some real strides with the presentation and tweaked gameplay and it's very pleasing to look at and play (to a certain extent). But, that's where it ends. It's still a FIFA game at it's core, which is plagued with AI issues and player switching problems and still lacks individuality in it's teams/players. For all the strides it's made forward it still doesn't encapsulate the drama and excitement/unpredictability of football.

PES feels like watching and interacting with a real game of football, FIFA feels a video game. It's a fun video game, don't get me wrong, but it's missing something and I still feel very detached when playing. PES is what football is all about for me, it's involving and engrossing and is as unpredictable and exciting as the real thing.

My 2c

The old PES has more player control than all fifa games. when you press the pass button it passes but with fifa their is awalys a delay.

Plus fifa has more exploits then the old PES games.

o and that world cup game is no better than fifa 10. i cant see any difference between the two and i will stick by and say its just a DLC and should have been £10, no more then that.

fifa 08 to Euro 08 was a much larger difference than fifa 10 to world cup

 

[romagnoli]

The problem with Fifa is that there is very little player individuality to start with, even on fully assisted. The way Fifa implements player stats into the gameplay is far too subtle, to the point that it's unnoticeable. So by going fully manual the player has nothing to lose, and if anything it's a way of making the best of a bad situation and breathing a bit of life into the game.

Exactly. Whether the controls are manual or assisted doesn't impact the player individuality, which is completely separate to the control scheme. As such, there's nothing to fear regarding the impact on player individuality from PES implementing so many gameplay features from FIFA's 09 and 10.

 

[freak08]

FROM THE PRESS RELEASE

PES 2011 introduces a power bar for each player that allows the user to determine the exact strength and placement of every pass and shot

This means, the passes will be manual, It will deal only with the strength of the pass and placement on the pitch, but it has nothing to do with the ACCURACY. Thus the player's pass accuracy stat will decide the success of the pass that you made.

AI routines designed to place every move and decision in the player's hands. No longer will assisted AI intervene during matches; users will now need to sense and react to threats; and passes will not automatically reach the nearest player

Now this means, After you make a pass, the cursor changes to another player, then you have to control the player to receive the incoming pass. Sometimes it may be intercepted by opponent AI. The point is you can adjust the player's position to trap the ball (without using super cancel). The player's position adjustment is made fluid, thereby you can choose to volley or head the aerial ball. Similarly you can choose to trap the ball in chest, head, thigh or in foot. Again you can just leave the ball to go dead without trapping. So for making a successful pass you have to use Player 1 to deliver a pass using the power bar and direction. And for receiving the pass you have to control the player 2 and trap the ball.

These are the new Freedom aspects of PES 2011 along with 360 degree. Its is realism and will take at least 50 matches to master ( or more than a week ). And it will be interesting to learn something new and advanced.

 

[Lons]

Last year Konami had huge chance to buy Bundesliga league but they didn't want. On the one hand they want have more leagues( Seabass interview last year) another they don't. This year EA's EPL contract ends and we will see Konami in action.

 

[Han]

FROM THE PRESS RELEASE

PES 2011 introduces a power bar for each player that allows the user to determine the exact strength and placement of every pass and shot

This means, the passes will be manual, It will deal only with the strength of the pass and placement on the pitch, but it has nothing to do with the ACCURACY. Thus the player's pass accuracy stat will decide the success of the pass that you made.

I do not agree with you on this point:
In my opinion the strength, together with the placement makes how acurate the passing will be.
Still I believe that the placement will be slightly affected by the passing accuracy of the player. The strength will be slightly affected by the player's passing speed.
This way the game keeps it's player individual skills or limitations.
That's how I think it will be.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

FROM THE PRESS RELEASE



This means, the passes will be manual, It will deal only with the strength of the pass and placement on the pitch, but it has nothing to do with the ACCURACY. Thus the player's pass accuracy stat will decide the success of the pass that you made.



Now this means, After you make a pass, the cursor changes to another player, then you have to control the player to receive the incoming pass. Sometimes it may be intercepted by opponent AI. The point is you can adjust the player's position to trap the ball (without using super cancel). The player's position adjustment is made fluid, thereby you can choose to volley or head the aerial ball. Similarly you can choose to trap the ball in chest, head, thigh or in foot. Again you can just leave the ball to go dead without trapping. So for making a successful pass you have to use Player 1 to deliver a pass using the power bar and direction. And for receiving the pass you have to control the player 2 and trap the ball.

These are the new Freedom aspects of PES 2011 along with 360 degree. Its is realism and will take at least 50 matches to master ( or more than a week ). And it will be interesting to learn something new and advanced.

Thats the problem though, the accuracy of a pass in real life and PES is made up of a few varying factors. Body position, posture, time on the ball, the weight of the pass and the speed of the pass all make up the accuracy.

At present players have passing speed, meaning that more accomplished players like Lampard and Gerrard can fizz passes into players feet. The more precise you are, and the more confident you are with your technique means that you have the ability to do this. Players with lesser ability may well have the accuracy but the speed of the pass is lacking which means it rarely ends up meeting it's destination without being intercepted.

You only have to play with Chelsea and then with the likes of Livorno to see the glaring differences in this regard. Passes very rarely fall short, or are intercepted due to their lack of speed with the Premium teams. This is because most players have a high passing speed as well as accuracy.

Personally I feel there is still room for freedom of passing in PES. No matter how good you are at PES 2010, and how careful you are at picking the right passes at the right times, and ensuring all the variable are in place to complete the perfect pass, sometimes the ball still is passed to the wrong player you intially intended.

I have confidence in Konami, for me they understand the fundementals of football more than any other company with any other sports game. I'm sure they will enhance PES without making it slightly Fifa-fied with this whole power bar rumoured feature. The essence of PES has always been player individuality first and foremost. Thats what creates the magical 'No game is ever the same' feeling. Individual players = Individual teams. I just cant see them straying too far from this philosophy. EA does it their way, they have the market for that style. PES has always done it their own unique way, and with the exception of PES 2008, done it very, very well.

The improvement from PES 2008 to PES 2009 was big, the jump from PES 2009 to PES 2010 was massive. Lets hope they continue to improve again with PES 2011.

 

[Lons]

Thats the problem though, the accuracy of a pass in real life and PES is made up of a few varying factors. Body position, posture, time on the ball, the weight of the pass and the speed of the pass all make up the accuracy.

At present players have passing speed, meaning that more accomplished players like Lampard and Gerrard can fizz passes into players feet. The more precise you are, and the more confident you are with your technique means that you have the ability to do this. Players with lesser ability may well have the accuracy but the speed of the pass is lacking which means it rarely ends up meeting it's destination without being intercepted.

You only have to play with Chelsea and then with the likes of Livorno to see the glaring differences in this regard. Passes very rarely fall short, or are intercepted due to their lack of speed with the Premium teams. This is because most players have a high passing speed as well as accuracy.

Personally I feel there is still room for freedom of passing in PES. No matter how good you are at PES 2010, and how careful you are at picking the right passes at the right times, and ensuring all the variable are in place to complete the perfect pass, sometimes the ball still is passed to the wrong player you intially intended.

I have confidence in Konami, for me they understand the fundementals of football more than any other company with any other sports game. I'm sure they will enhance PES without making it slightly Fifa-fied with this whole power bar rumoured feature. The essence of PES has always been player individuality first and foremost. Thats what creates the magical 'No game is ever the same' feeling. Individual players = Individual teams. I just cant see them straying too far from this philosophy. EA does it their way, they have the market for that style. PES has always done it their own unique way, and with the exception of PES 2008, done it very, very well.

The improvement from PES 2008 to PES 2009 was big, the jump from PES 2009 to PES 2010 was massive. Lets hope they continue to improve again with PES 2011.

Are you serious?

 

[Lami]

Exactly. Whether the controls are manual or assisted doesn't impact the player individuality, which is completely separate to the control scheme. As such, there's nothing to fear regarding the impact on player individuality from PES implementing so many gameplay features from FIFA's 09 and 10.

So many?

 

[Gab_]

I have confidence in Konami, for me they understand the fundementals of football more than any other company with any other sports game. I'm sure they will enhance PES without making it slightly Fifa-fied with this whole power bar rumoured feature. The essence of PES has always been player individuality first and foremost. Thats what creates the magical 'No game is ever the same' feeling. Individual players = Individual teams. I just cant see them straying too far from this philosophy. EA does it their way, they have the market for that style. PES has always done it their own unique way, and with the exception of PES 2008, done it very, very well.

Personally I don't agree that it is the team individuality that makes every game feel different in PES. I never really played 2008 or 2009, but have been playing a lot of BAL in 2010 and every team I play against play exactly the same.

What makes it fun is the complete randomness that PES has always had. Since every player can attack the ball at the same time and that the keepers aren't scripted at all, makes every shot on target unique. Anything can happen when the ball is in the box and that is what is so magic about real football and PES (FIFA doesn't have this at all).

PES is obviously better than FIFA in individuality but I think they can do much more, because to me it's not as amazing that everyone says. You can feel that certain players are slower, not that good passers and so on, but I still don't think the team individuality shows when playing against the CPU. The CPU should be able to analyse its players and adjust the tactics. Now it's more like they all seem to play pretty much the same, but it's the individual flash of brilliance that makes the difference.

One thing I have noticed in BAL which I really like is that certain players are much more willing to try long through balls. This way you get to know your team mates so you know that sometimes it's not worth taking a run because that player will probably never try to pass you even when you ask for it.

 

[Jamezinho]

So many?

Well, Fifa has stolen so many ideas from PES over the years I suppose it's only fair to give them back.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Personally I don't agree that it is the team individuality that makes every game feel different in PES. I never really played 2008 or 2009, but have been playing a lot of BAL in 2010 and every team I play against play exactly the same.

What makes it fun is the complete randomness that PES has always had. Since every player can attack the ball at the same time and that the keepers aren't scripted at all, makes every shot on target unique. Anything can happen when the ball is in the box and that is what is so magic about real football and PES (FIFA doesn't have this at all).

PES is obviously better than FIFA in individuality but I think they can do much more, because to me it's not as amazing that everyone says. You can feel that certain players are slower, not that good passers and so on, but I still don't think the team individuality shows when playing against the CPU. The CPU should be able to analyse its players and adjust the tactics. Now it's more like they all seem to play pretty much the same, but it's the individual flash of brilliance that makes the difference.

One thing I have noticed in BAL which I really like is that certain players are much more willing to try long through balls. This way you get to know your team mates so you know that sometimes it's not worth taking a run because that player will probably never try to pass you even when you ask for it.

Bal is completely different Gab, I dont know why this is, but I agree that teams feel very similar in this mode.

 

[Searain]

The old PES has more player control than all fifa games.

Sorry but this is biased bullshit. I constantly jump between FIFA 10 (due to TAMFA competitions), FIFA World Cup 2010 and J.League Winning Eleven 2009 CC (PS2 PES latest iteration, basically a PES 5~6 straight sequel with a few nice addition and improved ball physics) and for me the biggest selling point of FIFA's is freedom of control (and the larger "wide" camera).

Being stuck with passing the ball from player to player and having through balls mechanics set on rails, along with 16 directions movements, is what's been holding back the PES series and what makes "old PES" gameplay feel obsolete and outdated, whereas being able to kick the ball wherever you see fit is what ultimately sets next-gen FIFA's gameplay apart.

...which is why Konami's taking the aforementioned elements from FIFA and injecting them into PES 2011 (PES series "magic" + FIFA freedom of control and animations = every football games fan's wet dream).

Also, for what it's worth, JWE2009CC is quite a lot faster than both FIFA 10 and FIFA WC on slow, just fyi.

 

[Lami]

Well, Fifa has stolen so many ideas from PES over the years I suppose it's only fair to give them back.

 

[Ryuga-san]

Didn't PES5 had full Bundesliga?

It did but it wasn't licensed at all. Some rare players in german teams had fake names too.
Then, the DFL summoned Konami to appear before the court and actually they won, that's why Konami have never tried to include any german team without licence since then...

 

[Gab_]

Bal is completely different Gab, I dont know why this is, but I agree that teams feel very similar in this mode.

Oh I never thought of that. That's good news in a way I guess, because hopefully they'll fix it in 2011 so they play more like in the other modes.

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Nuevos balones nike

 

[Jamezinho]

Nuevos balones nike

Is this ball in PES2011?

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Is this ball in PES2011?

bueno, si konami sigue con su forma de hacer las cosas, imagino que solo aparecera uno de ellos, de color neutral.

pero este modelo aparecera seguro, falta saber el color.

 

[Jamezinho]

bueno, si konami sigue con su forma de hacer las cosas, imagino que solo aparecera uno de ellos, de color neutral.

pero este modelo aparecera seguro, falta saber el color.

Well, if Konami continues its way of doing things, I imagine that only one of them will appear, neutral color.

but this model appear safe, need to know the color.

gracias por la información

 

[romagnoli]

So many?

An awful lot of that press release was pretty much describing what FIFA had (reardless of whether FIFA had it right or not) that PES didn't. That can't have come as a surprise, shirley? Both games are based heavily on fan feedback, and both sets of fans look across the divide and point at what one side has that the other doesn't. konami are absolutely right to take influences from FIFA as well - while FIFA 10 got a lot wrong even looking past the bugs, it still had a lot of amazing technology and scope for an amazing game with a few significant changes. It'll take Konami a few years still to really catch u in the areas EA have been making strides since FIFA 08 but they're still right to make such changes.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Exactly, its a compliment to PES that FIFA copied stuff back then and know its a compliment to FIFA that PES is taking idea's from them.

 

[klashman69]

Sorry but this is biased bullshit. I constantly jump between FIFA 10 (due to TAMFA competitions), FIFA World Cup 2010 and J.League Winning Eleven 2009 CC (PS2 PES latest iteration, basically a PES 5~6 straight sequel with a few nice addition and improved ball physics) and for me the biggest selling point of FIFA's is freedom of control (and the larger "wide" camera).

Being stuck with passing the ball from player to player and having through balls mechanics set on rails, along with 16 directions movements, is what's been holding back the PES series and what makes "old PES" gameplay feel obsolete and outdated, whereas being able to kick the ball wherever you see fit is what ultimately sets next-gen FIFA's gameplay apart.

This is where me and you will never see eye to eye. I have played much Manual fifa and after a while when the whole WOW factor of how smooth the passes are and the feeling of total control wears off. It's becomes repetertive, generic and boring.

I's not all about th feeling of passes, it's about what your doing. FIFA's eternal problem which only sligthly lifted for FIFA 08 and EURO 2008 (where you did have the pes feeling of anything can happen) is about doing the same things over and over again. Shooting in sweetspots because you know you will score rather than just looking for openings.

The world cup game is an improvment thank god but it still has many exploits and as usual and is still generic (every player feels the same, you do the same things all the time). Good game finally though!

Player individuallity does contribute to this a lot, but it's important for Konami to find the balance between freedom and passing/shooting which are driven by stats. FIFA has pretty much always failed in this part. Instead they think for the money to satisfy casuals in which they have excled in the last two years.


Freeing up the game with fluid animations will further PES but also long as we don't have a direct copy of the generic pressure fest called fifa 10.

 

[Searain]

I's not all about th feeling of passes, it's about what your doing. FIFA's eternal problem which only sligthly lifted for FIFA 08 and EURO 2008 (where you did have the pes feeling of anything can happen) is about doing the same things over and over again. Shooting in sweetspots because you know you will score rather than just looking for openings.

The world cup game is an improvment thank god but it still has many exploits and as usual and is still generic (every player feels the same, you do the same things all the time). Good game finally though!

Player individuallity does contribute to this a lot, but it's important for Konami to find the balance between freedom and passing/shooting which are driven by stats. FIFA has pretty much always failed in this part. Instead they think for the money to satisfy casuals in which they have excled in the last two years.


Freeing up the game with fluid animations will further PES but also long as we don't have a direct copy of the generic pressure fest called fifa 10.

I actually agree with nearly everything you said.

I was merely responding to the above poster who stated that in the "old PES" games there was much more control over your player than in "next gen" FIFA's when in fact, once you've taken off the nostalgia goggles, that doesn't appear to be case.

 

[klashman69]

I actually agree with nearly everything you said.

I was merely responding to the above poster who stated that in the "old PES" games there was much more control over your player than in "next gen" FIFA's when in fact, once you've taken off the nostalgia goggles, that doesn't appear to be case.

Yes, he's wrong techincaly!

FIFA 10 and the world cup game gives you the most freedom in any football game in terms of movement, dribbling, and when using manual passing shooting etc... But as i've said before the balance is horrific.

The old pes games especially the great ISS were very much on rails! Still CLASSIC games though