PES 2011 Discussion thread

As long as the refs are fixed with all of the other proposed stuff I'll be happy.

For me Gameplay wise - Strikers taking up better positions and attacking the ball - it seems the midfielders do the best job coming late but they all attack like Lampard or Hamsik which isnt realistic.
Wingers also need to be smarter and more aggressive.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
Do you have any sources for this claim? If this is the case it would mean that goalkeepers can save shots on the slow speed setting that they wouldn't save on the faster settings, if only player animations are affected. Or are the goalkeepers somehow exempt from this? Do specify further if possible.
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I think you've misunderstood? In the slow setting the only thing that is affected is the maximum speed a player runs at, and the height of the dog leg at which acceleration tapers off - it's basically the normal speed vs time graph squashed a certain percentage.

The source is Gary Paterson.
 
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zeemeister said:
Excellent news today but I must admit the fully manual thing is making me nervous.

I want PES to evolve but it is absolutely vital that Konami keep the player and team individuality that the series is loved for.
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All they'd have to do to implement freedom of control while retaining player's individuality is tying up accuracy with players' stats and factor into the equation environmental variables such as pressure, position of the ball in respect to the player's foot/leg, pitch conditions, etc., while leaving aiming and power calibration to the person behind the joypad.

Simply put, while controlling highly technical players like Messi putting the ball exactly where you wanted it to be through a passage would be a lot easier than with, say, Materazzi, and even moreso if you aren't being pressured by a defender...and viceversa.

Actually, I wonder why a system like the one pictured above hasn't been implemented yet in either series, It can't be that hard to fathom ffs, especially if you've played RPG's or MMORPG's before...
 
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Searain said:
Simply put, while controlling highly technical players like Messi putting the ball exactly where you wanted it to be through a passage would be a lot easier than with, say, Materazzi, and even moreso if you aren't being pressured by a defender...and viceversa.
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That's the way to go, although it needs to be done properly - it can't be a system that you can "crack" through experience, meaning that practice cannot allow you to master Materazzi like you do Messi. Otherwise we're back to square one and it's not realistic.
It needs to be something that you can't get past, sort of the equivalent of those FPS that make your iron sights sway - the first Brothers in Arms wanted to put an emphasis on tactical manouvers and flanking, therefore it made the aim inaccurate to prevent the player from sniping everyone from a distance. Practice couldn't break this pattern, randomness was hard-wired into the game. It needs to be the same with PES.
 
@searain Agree 100% but I imagine it being pretty complex which is why both franchise have not implemented the system yeta.
But I was reding the press release again and the statement that fatigue would affect a players ability like accuracy of passing relieved my worries somewhat.
 
Searain said:
All they'd have to do to implement freedom of control while retaining player's individuality is tying up accuracy with players' stats and factor into the equation environmental variables such as pressure, position of the ball in respect to the player's foot/leg, pitch conditions, etc., while leaving aiming and power calibration to the person behind the joypad.

Simply put, while controlling highly technical players like Messi putting the ball exactly where you wanted it to be through a passage would be a lot easier than with, say, Materazzi, and even moreso if you aren't being pressured by a defender...and viceversa.

Actually, I wonder why a system like the one pictured above hasn't been implemented yet in either series, It can't be that hard to fathom ffs, especially if you've played RPG's or MMORPG's before...
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Individuality on PES always was up to the way the game handled and interpreted the stats (which was just the right way). They will have to be adapted to the new controls and the lack of the A.I assistance. Hopefully they have that in mind.
 
TBH it's what EA should be looking at adding, the only way to truly get player individuality is to have some non human input along with putting some individual animations in for certain players...
 
Ern Dog said:
The most important thing for me is the pace of the game. I bought Euro 2008 for £3 on ebay and played for about 20 mins, I then played the WC 2010 demo just to see how far EA has progressed. The change in game speed is just ridiculous, it was like a turbo mode had been enabled in the WC game and it was just unplayable. I never really thought that game speed was really important until I had this direct comparison.

I keep seeing people write about how far EA have come with FIFA but after playing these two back to back and having the misfortune of owning FIFA 10 I really dont see massive progression, sure the graphics are nicer but other than that and the 360 movement the game has gone backwards if anything.

If Konami really have 1000 new animations, proper 360 movement, passing & shooting and a realistic game speed then I feel the game will just blow away the competition.
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That was the main reason i sold my copy of Fifa10. The speed was ridculous. I played around with it for a while and did some stat editing to slow the gameplay down which made it much more playable but after a while i always felt i was playing Fifa and not football. Like there was a way to win on Fifa that wouldn't work in football.

Unfortunately i've frequented the Fifa boards and all of the serious posts about important things like game speed get over-looked because people start threads about wanting 6 different types of blue boots and other non-important things. EA now have a majority market that is made up by people who sadly only know the Fifa-style of football, and that means that many won't give PES a try because it takes longer than 15 minutes to get into it.

Hopefully PES 11 is a big improvement. I've had fun with PES10 and graphically it's amazing, but i've gone back to PES 6 patched and it's just as brilliant as i remember.
 
Thing is PES was never the mass market blockbuster that people make it out to be.
Sure it's had critical acclaim pre PES 2008 but even in PES's hey-day FIFA outsold PES in world-wide sales.

I wonder what would happen if PES were to be the game that every footy fan ever wanted. The reveiwers are anything but unbiased nowadays and EA pulled out all the stops to ensure that FIFA 10 got that 90+ metacritic score.
 
They really didn't, its just reviewers and mag's are bandwagon jumpers. When PES 08 was released it got great scores even though it was uber crap with the very good FIFA 08 getting the "same old crap" tag. The opposite just occured with FIFA 10 and PES 10' but I'd still say FIFA 10 is better than PES 10.
 
Mana Cerace said:
That's the way to go, although it needs to be done properly - it can't be a system that you can "crack" through experience, meaning that practice cannot allow you to master Materazzi like you do Messi. Otherwise we're back to square one and it's not realistic.
It needs to be something that you can't get past, sort of the equivalent of those FPS that make your iron sights sway - the first Brothers in Arms wanted to put an emphasis on tactical manouvers and flanking, therefore it made the aim inaccurate to prevent the player from sniping everyone from a distance. Practice couldn't break this pattern, randomness was hard-wired into the game. It needs to be the same with PES.
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100% agreed. Randomness has always been hard-wired into PES and I hope this doesn't change. I don't want PES to give me total control as I kind of like the stat-based influence on gameplay that's always been at the core of the series. It's why PES still feels like a more authentic football experience in my opinion, because it engages my football brain rather than my gaming brain.
 
Jamezinho said:
100% agreed. Randomness has always been hard-wired into PES and I hope this doesn't change. I don't want PES to give me total control as I kind of like the stat-based influence on gameplay that's always been at the core of the series. It's why PES still feels like a more authentic football experience in my opinion, because it engages my football brain rather than my gaming brain.
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There's no reason why manual controls in either game have to remain unaffected by the footballer making the pass/shot/cross.

It's funny to read people say this about manual controls over here, because over on the FIFA forums people say assisted controls are arcadey and manual is realistic. Quite a few people there (some of whom post here) want assisted controls to be completely removed and for everyone to use the semi control scheme, which is missing the point. So I'm arguing a case for manual being realistic over here, and assisted over there..!

It's not the control scheme that makes passes go immaculately to feet when using assisted controls but the lack of attribute based error. Human error when playing with manual controls is what gives the illusion of realism in FIFA 10, when in fact the aspects that make assisted gameplay feel unrealistic are just as apparent in manual.

It'll be interesting to see what EA do to stop assisted gameplay being so relatively mindless - from what tidbits we've had so far they are certainly looking at making passing harder.
 
ono5985 said:
i always felt i was playing Fifa and not football. Like there was a way to win on Fifa that wouldn't work in football.
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Never a truer word has been spoken. This is the main reason why I prefer PES to FIFA even though PES feels a little behind in the technology department it's far ahead in the footballing department. FIFA World Cup for all it positives and presentation still feels like a FIFA game, influenced by football.

I cannot wait to hear more news and see more footage.
 
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i always felt i was playing Fifa and not football. Like there was a way to win on Fifa that wouldn't work in football.
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Never a truer word has been spoken. This is the main reason why I prefer PES to FIFA even though PES feels a little behind in the technology department it's far ahead in the footballing department. FIFA World Cup for all it positives and presentation still feels like a FIFA game, influenced by football.

I cannot wait to hear more news and see more footage.
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I see what you mean mash in.getting fed up on fifa because you simply can't play it as. "a football" game u got to use exploit to win matches



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As a former die-hard Winning Eleven fan (in fact, I still religiously purchase the japanese versions on PS2 on yearly basis) I'm really excited about the alleged new take on the game(play), FIFA however (the WC game, specifically, comes to mind) isn't really as bad as some of you guys make it out to be.

We wouldn't be getting freedom of control in PES 11 if FIFA didn't implement it first (technically it wasn't the first game to allow such feature but I'm digressing) after all.
 
I'm not saying FIFA World Cup 2010 is a bad game, in fact it's the best FIFA game I've played, they've made some real strides with the presentation and tweaked gameplay and it's very pleasing to look at and play (to a certain extent). But, that's where it ends. It's still a FIFA game at it's core, which is plagued with AI issues and player switching problems and still lacks individuality in it's teams/players. For all the strides it's made forward it still doesn't encapsulate the drama and excitement/unpredictability of football.

PES feels like watching and interacting with a real game of football, FIFA feels a video game. It's a fun video game, don't get me wrong, but it's missing something and I still feel very detached when playing. PES is what football is all about for me, it's involving and engrossing and is as unpredictable and exciting as the real thing.

My 2c
 
_anderson said:
Also, doesn't FIFA10 (and FIFA WC) has a "speed chooser" in it? Or it doesn't have any effect at all?
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In response to the speed discussion on the last page.

I went to a friends yesterday and accidentally forgot to change it from normal, it was stupid. I had to exit the match just to change it but the thing is I think most, including me, would confess that even on slow Fifa 10 is too fast.

Although if i think about it it is too consistently fast, football isn't the same pace throughout the match. That is why the new PES 2011 sounds so intriguing. The 'game bursts into life' quote is what we should be seeing in football games, not just the EXACT same pace throughout the match.

If they could integrate speed changes into game length then we'd all be free to play at whatever length we wanted to and in that at whatever speed that we felt was right. I would also like to advocate longer matches in general or atleast give us the option to play a playable 30 minute match if we want to for instance. The problem in PES is that a 25 minute match feels the same speed as a 10/15 minute match which basically leads to far too many goals. It'd be interesting at least to see a drawn out longer game because PES seems very keen to base it's gameplay around tactics. It'd certainly help you to be more 'expressive'.
 
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zeemeister said:
Thing is PES was never the mass market blockbuster that people make it out to be.
Sure it's had critical acclaim pre PES 2008 but even in PES's hey-day FIFA outsold PES in world-wide sales.

I wonder what would happen if PES were to be the game that every footy fan ever wanted. The reveiwers are anything but unbiased nowadays and EA pulled out all the stops to ensure that FIFA 10 got that 90+ metacritic score.
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I agree with this for the most part but as somebody alluded to it isn't fully EA pulling out all the stops over pure bandwagoning. I do believe though the fact that Fifa is much more smoother it gives the impression that especially on first play it is a more fluid game which does to a heck of a lot of people make FIFA feel better than PES and i feel it has some part in reviewer's minds. You only have to ask yourself how good FIFA felt at first. FIFA's problems only become apparent after weeks of playing and it is convenient that reviewers do not get that amount of time in which to judge the game.
 
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It has always been that way. Fifa always gave a very good first impression then gets boring after a few days/weeks. Pes on the other hand is the total opposite, always dis-liked it first then fell in love with it after a week. Because of its randomness, there was always something new happening that I've never seen before.
 
PES 2011

Algo que seguira estando presente en Pro evolution Soccer 2011 es, que los cracks seguiran siendo los cracks.

A pesar de que el juego ya no sera coger a Messi o C.Ronaldo e irte de todos, eso no quiere decir que estos no sean los decisivos. Sin entran a valorar otros titulos, todos sabemos que la saga PES se corono en parte gracias a esos grandes jugadores con sus cualidades recreadas en el juego, a diferencia de otros titulos donde jugadores como Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, y demas cracks de tecnica apenas tienen una incidencia real en el juego.

Asi este año podremos ver esas facetas de los grandes cracks llevadas a la realidad virtual.


pd: please transleate/traducid por favor.
 
Lami said:
It has always been that way. Fifa always gave a very good first impression then gets boring after a few days/weeks. Pes on the other hand is the total opposite, always dis-liked it first then fell in love with it after a week. Because of its randomness, there was always something new happening that I've never seen before.
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Definitely agree with that. I used to find playing the demos of the PS2 PES games a nightmare each year. At first glance it looked like the same game as the year before but when you tried to play it the same way you'd get thrashed... even on low difficulties. With you only getting 45 mins as well it was hard to get into your stride.

When the final game eventually came you'd still struggle but as you could play full games now and tweak a few setting like match length or pick a better side with players you felt comfortable with eventually you'd get used to the changes and the game opened up. Long rangers didn't feel as impossible and you would get used to chipping the keeper from all kinds of distances (though it was still really hard to get the correct circumstances and still hit the target).

I remember playing PES3 and for a long time the only goals I could score were tap ins or really scrappy goals, especially in the master league with the default players. Each game felt like a real struggle but then after while you'd start to get more confident and start to get used to the game and you could build your own team to play how you liked. And nearly everyone you'd speak to would have a different team and a different style of play.

That was something else I always loved about PES. Nearly everyone would have their own style of play, so some players (as in us, not AI players) would prefer faster teams with speedy wingers. But if you didn't like that style you weren't punished from wanting to play a slower methodical game, taking your time, waiting for a killer through ball pass or mistake somewhere. I used to love it when mates came round and we'd all have different styles. Some of us were counter attack experts, others played ping pong passing like arsenal, others used the wings and crossed ball in a lot to tall strikers and others used the stronger but slower players to grind out hard fought close results.

I can never have a game like that on Fifa because as soon as you attempt to play a different style of game to Fifa's default set up. Whoever you're against online will just apply constant pressure to your men with the 2 buttons then when they get it, ping pong the ball down the pitch, chip through ball and then tap the ball around your keeper.
 
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Lami said:
It has always been that way. Fifa always gave a very good first impression then gets boring after a few days/weeks. Pes on the other hand is the total opposite, always dis-liked it first then fell in love with it after a week. Because of its randomness, there was always something new happening that I've never seen before.
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I agree, whenever I bought one of the Winning Eleven games in particular I always raged for about 2 weeks on the forums that they had ruined it, it was not fluid anymore, I could not score decent goals anymore, crossing had been ruined, then suddenly it would just click and fall into place.

I used to just love the randomness of it all, you could never have a dull game and I swear it was programmed in a way that would say after a few hundred hours it would seemingly unlock a new volley animation that you hadn't seen 6 months since you bought it.

I have really enjoyed World Cup game this year up until last night where it suddenly felt after a week that it had showed me all there was to see and playing was a bit of a chore, hope I am wrong.

I hope they don't imitate EA's game, I don't want to send a player on a run, I want their stats to decide when they feel they should make a run and then leave it to me controlling the ball to find the space to deliver that ball.

I pray Konami do it this year.
 
Ronaldinho_23 said:
PES 2011

Algo que seguira estando presente en Pro evolution Soccer 2011 es, que los cracks seguiran siendo los cracks.

A pesar de que el juego ya no sera coger a Messi o C.Ronaldo e irte de todos, eso no quiere decir que estos no sean los decisivos. Sin entran a valorar otros titulos, todos sabemos que la saga PES se corono en parte gracias a esos grandes jugadores con sus cualidades recreadas en el juego, a diferencia de otros titulos donde jugadores como Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, y demas cracks de tecnica apenas tienen una incidencia real en el juego.

Asi este año podremos ver esas facetas de los grandes cracks llevadas a la realidad virtual.





pd: please transleate/traducid por favor.
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Translation
Something that will continue to be present in Pro evolution Soccer 2011 is, that the cracks will remain the cracks.

While the game already not be take to Messi or C.Ronaldo and go you all, that does not mean that these are not the decisive. Without entering to assess other titles, we all know Crown that the PES series is with partly thanks to these great players with qualities re-created in the game, unlike other titles where players like Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, and other technical cracks barely have a real impact in the game.

So this year we will see these facets of the large cracks to virtual reality.

what does that mean? maybe the player individuality is more present in pes2011?
 
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Lami said:
I think if Konami can do that then they would've done it already. So I'm guessing its to do with a clause in the exclusivity that won't allow that. Or maybe Bundesliga are asking for way too much. Who knows..
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I think it's due to the DFL (the German league federation).

I read a good article about that last year, it said that they(konami) couldn't use the players likenesses because when a player is in a German team, the employer (the club, and the league) are those who decides about this kind of stuff.

Anyway, the DFL claimed that they proposed to share the licence to both EA and Konami, and that both refused (prefering exclusive rights). In my opinion, it's totally wrong ! The DFL just wants more and more money, that's why they sold exclusive rights to EA.

The article didn't mention about the end of the contract between EA and the DFL. I wish a German person could send an e-mail to the DFL, just to ask them if there's any chance to get the Bundesliga in PES 2011.
If anyone is interested, here's the page where you can find the e-mail adresses http://www.dfl.de/en/medien/kontakt/index.php
 
goalgerd said:
Translation
Something that will continue to be present in Pro evolution Soccer 2011 is, that the cracks will remain the cracks.

While the game already not be take to Messi or C.Ronaldo and go you all, that does not mean that these are not the decisive. Without entering to assess other titles, we all know Crown that the PES series is with partly thanks to these great players with qualities re-created in the game, unlike other titles where players like Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, and other technical cracks barely have a real impact in the game.

So this year we will see these facets of the large cracks to virtual reality.

what does that mean? maybe the player individuality is again present in pes2011?
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Cracks? Arse cracks?? Instead of animal heads players will now be naked further adding to the realism of PES 2011. Combined with the improved graphics of which the series is famous for you will now be able to see all your favourite football stars completely naked!
 
Ryuga-san said:
I think it's due to the DFL (the German league federation).

I read a good article about that last year, it said that they(konami) couldn't use the players likenesses because when a player is in a German team, the employer (the club, and the league) are those who decides about this kind of stuff.

Anyway, the DFL claimed that they proposed to share the licence to both EA and Konami, and that both refused (prefering exclusive rights). In my opinion, it's totally wrong ! The DFL just wants more and more money, that's why they sold exclusive rights to EA.

The article didn't mention about the end of the contract between EA and the DFL. I wish a German person could send an e-mail to the DFL, just to ask them if there's any chance to get the Bundesliga in PES 2011.
If anyone is interested, here's the page where you can find the e-mail adresses http://www.dfl.de/en/medien/kontakt/index.php
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The rights for the players belong to the league, different to Premier League for example.
 
goalgerd said:
Translation
Something that will continue to be present in Pro evolution Soccer 2011 is, that the cracks will remain the cracks.

While the game already not be take to Messi or C.Ronaldo and go you all, that does not mean that these are not the decisive. Without entering to assess other titles, we all know Crown that the PES series is with partly thanks to these great players with qualities re-created in the game, unlike other titles where players like Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, and other technical cracks barely have a real impact in the game.

So this year we will see these facets of the large cracks to virtual reality.

what does that mean? maybe the player individuality is more present in pes2011?
Click to expand...

It's saying that individuality will still be there, that it has always been a strength of PES compared to other titles (whatever they might be)). While Ronaldo and Messi won't be able to destroy teams single handedly, they will still be decisive players.
 
PATe.Arminia said:
The rights for the players belong to the league, different to Premier League for example.
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Exactly !
By the way, Konami had already been condemned for having used the players data in PES5...
Arghh I wish I could write to the DFL about PES 2011 >_< ...
 
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