PES 2011 Discussion thread

Han said:
I think the strategy-things will not be changed anymore for PES 2011.
If player indexes isn't there, it will not be there in the retail version.
I do not have the demo, but I am sure there must be some alternative in the new system. They worked really hard to improve the strategy-part; it must be hidden in there :)
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There's some stuff missing from the MLO. For example, isn't feints linking supposed to be on the normal tactics we have access to now? Well they aren't.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I suppose that this way is more realistic. Then you need to buy players that have a more attacking mentality, rather than making an out and out DMF do something he isn't naturally suited to. Also, we can still up the attacking mentality of the team I guess.
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To me it takes away your ability as a manager to adapt players and make them versatile, or to make them play the way you want to set up your team, obviously depending on their stats and varying abilities.

For example Yaya Toure started off as a powerful box to box midfielder, he regularly made forward runs, supporting the attack as well as doing his fair share of defensive work, a la Viera.

But when he came to Barca Rijkard told him to sit back and protect the back four, to curb his natural attacking instincts and let Xavi and Inietsa control the midfield offensively. Something similar has happened to Obi Mikel as well. A lot of Nigerians saw him as the natural successor to Okocha, a proper attacking midfielder; but gradually in Chelsea he's become a box to box central midfielder, and now he's being asked to do a Makelele!

I want that option back to say to my players, well actually I know you like to get forward a lot, but in this match or in this formation or against this team I'd like you to sit back a bit, or be balanced. Or to a defensive player with passing skills and say a long range shooting skill, to be able to say to him go forward at select times in a balanced way and support the attack when necessary.

Its so simple but it's crucial, as it allows you to customize the team to how you want them to play. In the older games it was done via the arrow system. If all else fails and its backs to the wall and you're getting battered, you can set the majority to defensive and have one or two balanced or attacking and try to hit your opponent on the break.

As you said I hope its back in the full version.
 
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shorty alien said:
To it takes away your ability as a manager to adapt players and make them versatile, or make them play to the way you want to set up your team, obviously depending on their stats and varying abilities.

For example Yaya Toure started off as a powerful box to box midfielder, he regularly made forward runs, supporting the attack as well as doing his fair share of defensive work, a la Viera.

But when he came to Barca Rijkard told him to sit back and protect the back four, to curb his natural attacking instincts and let Xavi and Inietsa control the midfield offensively. Something similar has happened to ObM Mikel as well. A lot of Nigerians saw him as the was seen as the natural successor to Okocha, a proper attacking midfielder, but gradually in Chelsea he's become a box to box central midfielder, and now he's being asked to do a Makelele!

I want that option back to say to my players, well actually i know you like to get forward a lot, but in this match or in this formation or against this team I'd like you to sit back a bit, or be balanced. Or to a defensive player with passing skills and say a long range shooting skill, to be able to say to him go forward at select times in a balanced way and support the attack when necessary.

Its so simple but it's crucial, as it allows you to customize the team to how you want the m to play. In the older games it was done via the arrow system. If all else fails and its backs to the wall and you're getting battered, you can set the majority to defensive and have one or two balanced or attacking and try to hit your opponent on the break.

As you said I hope its back in the full version.
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A very fair argument.
 
Han said:
I think the strategy-things will not be changed anymore for PES 2011.
If player indexes isn't there, it will not be there in the retail version.
I do not have the demo, but I am sure there must be some alternative in the new system. They worked really hard to improve the strategy-part; it must be hidden in there :)




I did not find immaturity in Putuco Malo's post.
Still I do not agree with him. Gaming has developed from the past and online plays a major role in it. Think about Blizzard-titles, like Starcraft.
Most people like to challenge each other and online is the ultimate place to do that.
EA did understand that very well and made a lot of online modes since FIFA 8.
It is true that FIFA always selled better, but the reason they did well in the past was because of Konami's bad marketing at that time. I needed to buy ISS Pro evo 2 in Asia, as I couldn't find it in European shops. Still that game outclassed the FIFA-series.
I am surprised that PES 2011 still uses peer to peer ( from what I understood from the ML-online players ) and no dedicated servers. The gameplay is good enough to win the battle against FIFA, but online is under-developed and here Konami will loose that part from EA.
Konami, put dedicated servers in it, make a similar mode like clubs in FIFA and you have won it :)
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Great post. Thanks for clarifying!
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
You just have to wait for the runs, your attacker will peel off the back four, but even on Regular AI, they do keep a high tight back line. I really love that movements off the ball, I think there are very clever. If you miss the initial run of your striker, it is a waiting game until the next chance arises for that killer pass. Most of my goals are off patient build up play, waiting for that split second for Suarez to thread in Baptista. It's all about split second timing with the throughballs, it's very realistic in my book, a very small window of opportunity, which is exactly what you get with those slide-rule passes.

Zee,

Are you saying that that defensive retreat option is in this code ? Can you make your defenders retreat on the backfoot with back and X ? I've tried, and after reading what Mart assumed, I figured this system wasnt in place yet ?

I cant find the video from work at the minute to show you what I mean.
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Yeah I don't know what Mart has seen but I find doing that keeps you at arms length as I explained earlier. If it's easier in the final game all the better because it takes a serious amount of practice.
 
shorty alien said:
To me it takes away your ability as a manager to adapt players and make them versatile, or to make them play the way you want to set up your team, obviously depending on their stats and varying abilities.

For example Yaya Toure started off as a powerful box to box midfielder, he regularly made forward runs, supporting the attack as well as doing his fair share of defensive work, a la Viera.

But when he came to Barca Rijkard told him to sit back and protect the back four, to curb his natural attacking instincts and let Xavi and Inietsa control the midfield offensively. Something similar has happened to Obi Mikel as well. A lot of Nigerians saw him as the natural successor to Okocha, a proper attacking midfielder; but gradually in Chelsea he's become a box to box central midfielder, and now he's being asked to do a Makelele!

I want that option back to say to my players, well actually I know you like to get forward a lot, but in this match or in this formation or against this team I'd like you to sit back a bit, or be balanced. Or to a defensive player with passing skills and say a long range shooting skill, to be able to say to him go forward at select times in a balanced way and support the attack when necessary.

Its so simple but it's crucial, as it allows you to customize the team to how you want them to play. In the older games it was done via the arrow system. If all else fails and its backs to the wall and you're getting battered, you can set the majority to defensive and have one or two balanced or attacking and try to hit your opponent on the break.

As you said I hope its back in the full version.
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I see your point, but at the same time if you think of it, it does add to a player's individuality as well. If you want someone to sit back and defend when he's more of an offensive mentality, that might not be the best choice because its more "in his genes" to attack and therefore prone to make wrong defensive decisions at times. That's why in real life, people would then argue that the manager should've played a more defensive minded player for that specific game.
 
I think its more in the sense that you can vary their approaches depending on the situation. For example Stephen Ireland is part of my 3 man midfield and while he's naturally attacking he has a decent 67 rating for Defense.

If my midfield was getting overrun, I would switch his attacking player index to either balanced or defensive (if it became a desperate backs to the wall situation), and if needed have him track back and mark someone. He can use that defensive aspect of his game when necessary, that's what I meant.

That's why I wanted the option to stay in there. Of course you can also use team style to set the team mentality, but the player index/past arrow system was useful on an individual basis.
 
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shorty alien said:
I think its more in the sense that you can vary their approaches depending on the situation. For example Stephen Ireland is part of my 3 man midfield and while he's naturally attacking he has a decent 67 rating for Defense.

If my midfield was getting overrun, I would switch his attacking player index to either balanced or defensive (if it became a desperate backs to the wall situation), and if needed have him track back and mark someone. He can use that defensive aspect of his game when necessary, that's what I meant.

That's why I wanted the option to stay in there. Of course you can also use team style to set the team mentality, but the player index/past arrow system was useful for on an individual basis.
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Thinking of it now, I miss the older arrow system more. I think a mix of the old arrow system plus the new OFF/BAL/DEF minded attribute should be perfect then.
 
Well we definitely don't have all options open to us. If you use the auto formation setup, the midfielders seem to have two white arrows attached to them. Dunno if that's a player role swap option or something... The best thing to do is check the help menu as that hasn't been cut down.
 
Yeah, the arrows also allowed you to set diagonal directions, for example if you wanted a winger/SS to cut inside or stay wide or both. That's the problem with Konami, useful old stuff disappears as the new stuff comes in! Although I've never used it people always used to complain that the hexagon/penatgon thing was missing, now its back, but they've taken away loose/tight marking and player index, at least in the beta, we don't know about the full game yet I suppose.
 
shorty alien said:
Yeah, the arrows also allowed you to set diagonal directions, for example if you wanted a winger/SS to cut inside or stay wide or both. That's the problem with Konami, useful old stuff disappears as the new stuff comes in! Although I've never used it people always used to complain that the hexagon/penatgon thing was missing, now its back, but they've taken away loose/tight marking and player index, at least in the beta, we don't know about the full game yet I suppose.
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I'm not sure what you mean. Can you take a screenshot of it on PES 2010?
 
zeemeister said:
Yeah I don't know what Mart has seen but I find doing that keeps you at arms length as I explained earlier. If it's easier in the final game all the better because it takes a serious amount of practice.
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What I mean Zee is can you make your defender track backwards by aiming the left stick towards your goal and pressing X ? I have tried it many times and I'm positive its not in this build ?

Rom, can you ? Have you ?
 
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I hope the diagonal arrows make it into the final release, I don't remember it being in 2010.
 
Jimmy, at the moment pressing back and X makes you run up to the opponent and then stop a few yards off. It is in there but the player essentially presses exactly the same if pressing back as if pressing forwards, until right near the player. What I'd prefer is for back and X to not advance you at all/only move you forwards gradually, so you could use it to backpedal against a counter.

I haven't really checked what just holding X does when backed way off - whether you sprint forwards with that as well.
 
romagnoli said:
Jimmy, at the moment pressing back and X makes you run up to the opponent and then stop a few yards off. It is in there but the player essentially presses exactly the same if pressing back as if pressing forwards, until right near the player. What I'd prefer is for back and X to not advance you at all/only move you forwards gradually, so you could use it to backpedal against a counter.

I haven't really checked what just holding X does when backed way off - whether you sprint forwards with that as well.
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Then it cant be in Rom, Mart said he never seen it in the code he played, and I'm led to believe from PESFan, this is an older code than that version, according to Jon Murphy.

Have you seen the video yet where it highlights this backpeddling retreating cover system ?
 
_anderson said:
Good decision, Huntelaar is class. Scored two hattricks with him already.
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Two goals on his debut, the Fox in the Box card makes a big difference.

Also I dropped defensive line back a little bit and made use of man marking and that too made a big difference, much better team shape.

Hunting season is well under way.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Then it cant be in Rom, Mart said he never seen it in the code he played, and I'm led to believe from PESFan, this is an older code than that version, according to Jon Murphy.

Have you seen the video yet where it highlights this backpeddling retreating cover system ?
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If you could pick it out that'd be great, though I think I have - from the PES presentation, right?

I think the basics are kind of in there - I have used away+X to stand-off and win the ball - but it's nowhere near finished I don't think. It really struggles against people running side-on to you, approaching the player and then stopping. Hopefully it'll be in the final thing, but maybe somebody could tweet Murph?
 
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romagnoli said:
If you could pick it out that'd be great, though I think I have - from the PES presentation, right?

I think the basics are kind of in there - I have used away+X to stand-off and win the ball - but it's nowhere near finished I don't think. It really struggles against people running side-on to you, approaching the player and then stopping. Hopefully it'll be in the final thing, but maybe somebody could tweet Murph?
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I am also interested in this "feature". Haven't seen it in any videos until now
 
romagnoli said:
If you could pick it out that'd be great, though I think I have - from the PES presentation, right?

I think the basics are kind of in there - I have used away+X to stand-off and win the ball - but it's nowhere near finished I don't think. It really struggles against people running side-on to you, approaching the player and then stopping. Hopefully it'll be in the final thing, but maybe somebody could tweet Murph?
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Here it is, I found it, 1 minute 20 seconds in. ;)

I'm positive this isnt in our code, but it will make a huge difference, it's the perfect counter-action. It also makes defending a true art.


YouTube - PES 2011 Presentation (2/5)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Here it is, I found it, 1 minute 20 seconds in. ;)

I'm positive this isnt in our code, but it will make a huge difference, it's the perfect counter-action. It also makes defending a true art.


YouTube - PES 2011 Presentation (2/5)
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Ooooh that I haven't done before. I am just running with the player holding X as it doesn't commit anymore like PES of old till you press in the direction of the ball/ball carrier. Then again I tend to not think about my fingers when playing I will see what exactly it is I'm doing. Whatever it is it works as I'm starting to play with 3 defenders.
 
The defensive hold-up move isn't properly implemented in the ML online beta build as it's at a similar stage to what I played at the community day. Jon specifically mentioned that it had only just been added to the build so was not how it should be after I mentioned I'd had trouble trying to use it.

So I assume the demo will be the first time we can try it out properly.
 
Mart said:
The defensive hold-up move isn't properly implemented in the ML online beta build as it's at a similar stage to what I played at the community day. Jon specifically mentioned that it had only just been added to the build so was not how it should be after I mentioned I'd had trouble trying to use it.

So I assume the demo will be the first time we can try it out properly.
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Thanks for clearing this up. I was really struggling to see the defensive system in the beta, and this confirms it's not there, thankfully.

I'm also not too enamoured with the removal of the directions for players to sit back or attack. I hope this is just an MLO feature to prevent people loading their teams with attacking players (which still shouldn't be the case).

It's not wise to remove features which give us control over aspects of the game. I don't need someone holding my hand or forcing me to play a certain way. Freedom in tactical and footballing decisions should be down to the user. It's up to Konami to program the on pitch stuff in such a way that over reliance on one style of player will burn you against good AI or human opponents.

Also forgot to mention, the overall rating is still there. Not a fan. I hope it's gone in 2012.
 
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Fingers crossed when it's added it'll take care of the Aguero/ Eto'o sprinters.

Shame there weren't any compos today - was looking forward to raising enough cash to upgrade my back line.
 
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