PES 2011 Discussion thread

dmxdex2020 said:
They need to scrap that old form thing its silly how each game is random form. Its not right.
Click to expand...

...well, I wouldn't go for scrapping it. It's the fact that not all players are with the same form that forces you to make changes like a real manager does. I often pick the players who are at best form, but I have friends who always put their stars on the starting eleven, regardless of their form. It forces you to think and make decisions, instead of always playing with the same players...

Actually, in my opinion, it is one of the best things that PES has brought into the soccer-simulation field, as far as I remember. That and the through-ball button!

Regards,

Paulo Tavares
 
dmxdex2020 said:
They need to scrap that old form thing its silly how each game is random form. Its not right.
Click to expand...

It's based on player's 'form' ability. For example i played a seazon with Manchester Utd and Rooney (form 7) was never grey or blue. Maybe one or two times during the whole season. When i played with Milan Ronaldinho (form 3) was very often blue or grey. Maybe it needs a little polishing, but it's a good thing imo.
 
JimboPL said:
It's based on player's 'form' ability. For example i played a seazon with Manchester Utd and Rooney (form 7) was never grey or blue. Maybe one or two times during the whole season. When i played with Milan Ronaldinho (form 3) was very often blue or grey. Maybe it needs a little polishing, but it's a good thing imo.
Click to expand...

Its good. But it should be more consistant. If you rest players for a few games they shouldnt be fucked after they come back. I dont disagree with the system one but i just feel like you said it needs polishing or a new up to date system. Things is the AI is now so old you can beat them with a poor form team. Have konami revamped the games ai and game difficulty? its something ive been hoping for a couple of years now.
 
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I think it should also take into effect the opponent as the "big game players" are likely to go higher while others will tend to fold under the pressure of a big game.
 
Okay, little later that expected; here is the translation of the Dutch preview. Hopefully you can understand my English better then Googles :D

A well respected Dutch PES player ( Cyrax77 ) wrote down his thoughts on the game. He tested the game thoroughly at InsideGamer's HQ.


PES 2011

After reading several (p) reviews last Friday, I had the opportunity to test PES 2011.

For this I, with Elite and Leo went to InsideGamer in Hoofddorp. The ride was wild as Elite drives like he plays PES. Quickly and without looking That Is.
Elite told me to mention that he had beaten me, hands down with PES 2010,
I do this (against my nature) without pain in my heart, because PES 2010 is old, boring and the past. My friend Elite is simply always something behind, I'm already gone further and playing PES 2010 simply gives me no satisfaction anymore.

A Whole New Game

To get straight to the door down to business, PES 2011 is (almost) nothing to the game that has ever been. Nothing like it ever was in the old-gen consoles.
The first games felt like it was the first time I ever have played a footie. It didn't even come close to it and that was actually for everyone who played last Friday. Does that mean it is great right away?

To be or not to be?

On various forums you can read that people doubt whether there is 360 ° dribble put in the game. Some indicated that this is not the case and had even said that the well known 8-directions was the only thing you got out of your controller. After just a few minutes I already figured out that this fortunately is not the case in the version I've played.
I felt like I had all the freedom I need to get me to feel free in a footie game.
However, it was soon clear that there are some things that need some work about, for example, sometimes it was pretty hard to keep your defender under tight control. Sometimes the defender seemed a little too much to go his own way, there was a lot to be corrected in the runs on the particular moments when you wanted to take control. The movements of the virtual gods felt and looked smoother than some (youtube) movies do want you to believe. Unfortunately, neither of us succeeded in linking tricks, which I really wanted it to play around.

Has dribbling become more difficult? It is difficult to assess because PES 2011 really has the well known 'Easy to learn, hard to master'-concept again. Even for Elite, known for his dribble, it was not easy to get through the defence, but again, who knows that this will be the case two months after its release?
The new defense simply did not really noticed me. you indeed can take control of the moment when to sitck out your leg and take the ball but I would not really call this new defending. The time was not sufficient to get very deep into it and no one had the level that it was necessary to defend properly.There's really potential, but again, time will tell.

Oops, pass back better!

Passing; there is already talked much about it. It was the manual passing that caused my teammates and me felt rather "amateurish" to say the least.
Passing this way was difficult, very difficult. I've never seen a PES-marathon in which the ball was played as much over the goal line in a fairly silly way, or in which players simply were not reached, even though they were less than 2 meters away from you.

I struggled through those first few games back in play as my 2-year-old daughter would do. And she is not watching the screen but the controller.

You can still pass around fairly easily, by simply not use manual passing. Just do not press the button is enough. This does not mean that it is as simple as in previous versions of PES, without really using manual passing you aim carefully. The balls go in all directions you want. But you must be- as PSV coach Rutte ever aptly pointed out- hungry for this one great pass to decide the match.
And just that works very well with this new system. It gives lots of satisfaction as splitting pass arrives with the outside right (and I mean right side out) the ball curls towards the corner. These little passes I managed to play really only a few in all these games and so did the others .. Not every player can give a pass, and that's a good thing. You need a 'Sneijdertje' in your team to be able to do that several times in a single game and to penetrate the defence that way.

Blur?

In the graphics department is not much to report, apart from on the camera-angle, menu and some other realistic looking parts. The new camera-angle looks nice, but I do not know if it will really contribute to the overview. There was a strange blur in the game, especially visible in replays. I think this has to do with the version here, because no-one talked about it before. The menu looks slick and oddly enough, this is really important for some, that's why I give it more as a reference.

Bugs and Jesus

Unfortunatly, not everything is great about the game, despite it all felt so damm new. I once wrote in a previous preview from an older Next-gen PES that there were bugs that tormented us already in the time that Jesus was nailed at the cross.
To my sadness, those bugs are still in the game. And that, my friends, makes me very sad.

The keeper still decides where the ball is directed, and you cannot do that anymore, my kind Japanese friends. That is simply not done anymore.
Defenders will still clear the ball automatically out of the sixteen, while you want to set up a counter and really no button is pressed.
I got a cool flashback and thought of that movie with that fucking scary chick whose neck just turn 360 degrees (very appropriately regarding PES 2011) The Exorcist, remember? That woman had no control over herself and that automatic clearence felt like that. That should not be the case for a game that stands for freedom and control. I had the hope that it was because of the semi-assisted setting but that turned out to make no difference.

Applying the advantage rule was and is still too difficult for the referee and that provides the necessary frustration. How hard can it be? Also, by off side You can take your time and get a Cola (even with the neighbors if you're quick) because the game still lingers here on.

The runns, made by your fellow players, were inconclusive, both defensively and offensively. But we got no time to delve deep on the tactics, as we had to play.
It was improved compared to the previous sections, but that is not very difficult. Still I think it is not what many people hoped.

Anything else?

Off Course (well, so "of course" it is not with Konami), there are other things changed in the game. The sliding-tackle, for example works really great, good timing and just take the ball in a great way off your opponent. Also the ref did not whistle for every trifle , very nice.
I was at one point behind a striker, gave him back four taps so he more and more lost his balance and could not run away. Then I could simply steal the ball. Fantastic, and it keeps the pace in the game. I know another game - which name I do not name - from
which I also played the new version and there was often agonizingly stopped for fouls that are not worth mentioning.

There is more physical contact in the game and that gives the game a more realistic feel.
A shoulderpush here and there helps and it slows the opponent down clearly. Do not expect a wrestling game, it is just a tweak in the gameplay and not flashy new reason to buy the game.

Finally I would like to mention the keepers. These are, in my view, not much improved compared to the previous sections. They seem a little more balls to get but just as often they punch it very stupid back into the field. So no real improvement.

Preliminary conclusion

This time I found the conclusion harder than ever, precisely because I do not know whether I should be happy or not.
It's all a bit in between. I know I shall have to experience a lot of frustrating moments as the game will not always do whatever I want.
But I also know that a beautiful goal, the one splitting pass or degrading sliding back will give satisfaction. And I mean that real cheering, screaming and humiliating satisfaction. The satisfaction you feel when you sit on the couch next to your humbled buddy when you just finished a brutal and perfectly executed attack. Now We'll hope that your mate next to you has the feeling that he could do nothing about that goal, and not about the AI making mistakes when you performed your attack.
A lot of fun or no fun will depend on that.

I do not feel that PES will win new souls, at most old fans.
Just because the game is not good enough, the version I played was not in any case.
The potential is visible, the change is greater than ever, but I wonder if it will be enough.

As for the online part, I can not report you about it, Things quickly passed in the menu's, but I am not allowed to say things about it.This is all so wait and see, for many, the online portion will weigh heavily in the decision to PES or not to buy, wait for the online beta for that matter.

I would like to thank Elite, Insidegamer and DigitaalGras for this beautiful day. It was fun to go out with two big negroes ( ;) ) and the game was well worth it. The guys from InsideGamer were very hospitable, thumbs up for this. Small side note is that the guys at Inside Gamer did not wanted to propose us to the ladies of Panorama and we are approximately six hours have to wait for a cup of coffee (just kidding boys, there were only three ;) ), but you can not have everything.

Finally you can see that not all questions are answered in the preview itself, as you understand, is simply not possible. It is otherwise a list of facts which helps nobody.

Guys, thank you !!!!!!!
 
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Han said:
Okay, little later that expected; here is the translation of the Dutch preview. Hopefully you can understand my English better then Googles :D

A well respected Dutch PES player wrote down his thoughts on the game. He tested the game thoroughly at InsideGamer's HQ. Please beware that it's a Dutch article translated with Google:


PES 2011

After reading several (p) reviews last Friday, I had the opportunity to test PES 2011.

For this I, with Elite and Leo went to InsideGamer in Hoofddorp. The ride was wild as Elite drives like he plays PES. Quickly and without looking That Is.
Elite told me to mention that he had beaten me, hands down with PES 2010,
I do this (against my nature) without pain in my heart, because PES 2010 is old, boring and the past. My friend Elite is simply always something behind, I'm already gone further and playing PES 2010 simply gives me no satisfaction anymore.

A Whole New Game

To get straight to the door down to business, PES 2011 is (almost) nothing to the game that has ever been. Nothing like it ever was in the old-gen consoles.
The first games felt like it was the first time I ever have played a footie. It didn't even come close to it and that was actually for everyone who played last Friday. Does that mean it is great right away?

To be or not to be?

On various forums you can read that people doubt whether there is 360 ° dribble put in the game. Some indicated that this is not the case and had even said that the well known 8-directions was the only thing you got out of your controller. After just a few minutes I already figured out that this fortunately is not the case in the version I've played.
I felt like I had all the freedom I need to get me to feel free in a footie game.
However, it was soon clear that there are some things that need some work about, for example, sometimes it was pretty hard to keep your defender under tight control. Sometimes the defender seemed a little too much to go his own way, there was a lot to be corrected in the runs on the particular moments when you wanted to take control. The movements of the virtual gods felt and looked smoother than some (youtube) movies do want you to believe. Unfortunately, neither of us succeeded in linking tricks, which I really wanted it to play around.

Has dribbling become more difficult? It is difficult to assess because PES 2011 really has the well known 'Easy to learn, hard to master'-concept again. Even for Elite, known for his dribble, it was not easy to get through the defence, but again, who knows that this will be the case two months after its release?
The new defense simply did not really noticed me. you indeed can take control of the moment when to sitck out your leg and take the ball but I would not really call this new defending. The time was not sufficient to get very deep into it and no one had the level that it was necessary to defend properly.There's really potential, but again, time will tell.

Oops, pass back better!

Passing; there is already talked much about it. It was the manual passing that caused my teammates and me felt rather "amateurish" to say the least.
Passing this way was difficult, very difficult. I've never seen a PES-marathon in which the ball was played as much over the goal line in a fairly silly way, or in which players simply were not reached, even though they were less than 2 meters away from you.

I struggled through those first few games back in play as my 2-year-old daughter would do. And she is not watching the screen but the controller.

You can still pass around fairly easily, by simply not use manual passing. Just do not press the button is enough. This does not mean that it is as simple as in previous versions of PES, without really using manual passing you aim carefully. The balls go in all directions you want. But you must be- as PSV coach Rutte ever aptly pointed out- hungry for this one great pass to decide the match.
And just that works very well with this new system. It gives lots of satisfaction as splitting pass arrives with the outside right (and I mean right side out) the ball curls towards the corner. These little passes I managed to play really only a few in all these games and so did the others .. Not every player can give a pass, and that's a good thing. You need a 'Sneijdertje' in your team to be able to do that several times in a single game and to penetrate the defence that way.

Blur?

In the graphics department is not much to report, apart from on the camera-angle, menu and some other realistic looking parts. The new camera-angle looks nice, but I do not know if it will really contribute to the overview. There was a strange blur in the game, especially visible in replays. I think this has to do with the version here, because no-one talked about it before. The menu looks slick and oddly enough, this is really important for some, that's why I give it more as a reference.

Bugs and Jesus

Unfortunatly, not everything is great about the game, despite it all felt so damm new. I once wrote in a previous preview from an older Next-gen PES that there were bugs that tormented us already in the time that Jesus was nailed at the cross.
To my sadness, those bugs are still in the game. And that, my friends, makes me very sad.

The keeper still decides where the ball is directed, and you cannot do that anymore, my kind Japanese friends. That is simply not done anymore.
Defenders will still clear the ball automatically out of the sixteen, while you want to set up a counter and really no button is pressed.
I got a cool flashback and thought of that movie with that fucking scary chick whose neck just turn 360 degrees (very appropriately regarding PES 2011) The Exorcist, remember? That woman had no control over herself and that automatic clearence felt like that. That should not be the case for a game that stands for freedom and control. I had the hope that it was because of the semi-assisted setting but that turned out to make no difference.

Apply the advantage rule was and is still too difficult for the referee and that provides the necessary frustration. How hard can it be? Also, by off side You can take your time and get a Cola (even with the neighbors if you're quick) because the game still lingers here on.

The runns, made by your fellow players, were inconclusive, both defensively and offensively. But we got no time to delve deep on the tactics, as we had to play.
It was improved compared to the previous sections, but that is not very difficult. Still I think it is not what many people hoped.

Anything else?

Off Course (well, so of course it is not Konami), there are other things changed in the game. The sliding-tackle, for example works really great, good timing and just take the ball in a great way off your opponent. Also the ref did not whistle for every trifle , very nice.
I was at one point behind a striker, gave him back four taps so he more and more lost his balance and could not run away. Then I could simply steal the ball. Fantastic, and it keeps the pace in the game. I know another game - which name I do not name - from
which I also played the new version and there was often agonizingly stopped for fouls that are not worth mentioning.

There is more physical contact in the game and that gives the game a more realistic feel.
A shoulderpush here and there helps and it slows the opponent down clearly. Do not expect a wrestling game, it is just a tweak in the gameplay and not flashy new reason to buy the game.

Finally I would like to mention the keepers. These are, in my view, not much improved compared to the previous sections. They seem a little more balls to get but just as often they punch it very stupid back into the field. So no real improvement.

Preliminary conclusion

This time I found the conclusion harder than ever, precisely because I do not know whether I should be happy or not.
It's all a bit in between. I know I have to experience a lot of frustrating moments and the game will not often will do whatever I want.
But I also know that a beautiful goal, the one splitting pass or degrading sliding back will give satisfaction. And I mean that real cheering, screaming and humiliating satisfaction. The satisfaction you feel when you sit on the couch next to your humbled buddy when you just finished a brutal and perfectly executed attack. Now We'll hope that your mate next to you has the feeling that he could do nothing about that goal, and not about the AI making mistakes when you performed your attack.
A lot of fun or no fun will depend on that.

I do not feel that PES will win new souls, at most old fans.
Just because the game is not good enough, the version I played was not in any case.
The potential is visible, the change is greater than ever, but I wonder if it will be enough.

As for the online part, I can not report you about it, Things quickly passed in the menu's, but I am not allowed to say things about it.This is all so wait and see, for many, the online portion will weigh heavily in the decision to PES or not to buy, wait for the online beta for that matter.

I would like to thank Elite, Insidegamer and DigitaalGras for this beautiful day. It was fun to go out with two big negroes ( ;) ) and the game was well worth it. The guys from InsideGamer were very hospitable, thumbs up for this. Small side note is that the guys at Inside Gamer us wanted to propose to the ladies of Panorama and we are approximately six hours have to wait for a cup of coffee (just kidding boys, there were only three ;) ), but you can not have everything.

Finally you can see that not all questions are answered in the preview itself, as you understand, is simply not possible. It is otherwise a list of facts which helps nobody.

Guys, thank you !!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Still struggle to understand any of that.
 
Hopefully others can read it. Problem may be that the writer uses pretty long sentences. Translating that is a bit difficult.

I can read it easily :D
 
thanks Han. You done a lot. That's a very, I can say, honest review. Nice to know the pros and cons
 
this was posted in the fifa forum,contains info from journos who have now played both pes 2011 and fifa 2011

Quote:
Hey guys, just wanted to give you guys some impressions from some of my mates in the press who have both FIFA 11 and PES 2011 code.

I thought I'd post it in here though, as it's more favourable for FIFA 11 right now. He did say, comparisons are maybe unfair as he has same preview code of PES as me (around 70-75%), but around 90% FIFA 11 code. So pretty much what we'll be playing in Cologne.

I won't name names either, as it was said in confidence. But you'll get press previews first week of September - even reviews.

His take then was that FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES - but stressed to point out thats more about opinion than fact.

For him, stats in passing, and even having the confidence to play in confined spaces is more satisfying in PES, although FIFA 11 has caught up so much in this respect the physical nature of them game has been toned down loads.

Secondly, animations in FIFA 11, and player specific ones, are now beyond PES. EA have caught up and surpassed PES in this field this year, with things like first touch and first time passes being a joy in FIFA 11.

He went onto mention that as a full game (presentation, feel, visual satisfaction, audio, graphics) again FIFA 11 is still way ahead of PES 2011. He used the words solid and reliable. He feels PES 2011 is fantastic in spots, but as a whole suffers from Konami trying new things, where as EA have developed their engine to such a degree it's untouchable. The game is so satisfying, that even the better aspects of PES aren't big enough for him to go back to Konami's game.

The last part is the most interesting, where he states animations now look believable. They're less OTT and from gameplay cam can look like less than last year. They're not less, but the way they're represented makes it feel much more realistic.

His conculsion then, is while PES is better in core play feel of a player, and even one player vs CPU (states one play AI in FIFA 11 still needs work), EA aren't far off on those things. So for him FIFA 11 will rule again, but not just for FIFA fans, but fans across all bases.
 
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goalgerd said:
this was posted in the fifa forum,contains info from journos who have now played both pes 2011 and fifa 2011

Quote:
Hey guys, just wanted to give you guys some impressions from some of my mates in the press who have both FIFA 11 and PES 2011 code.

I thought I'd post it in here though, as it's more favourable for FIFA 11 right now. He did say, comparisons are maybe unfair as he has same preview code of PES as me (around 70-75%), but around 90% FIFA 11 code. So pretty much what we'll be playing in Cologne.

I won't name names either, as it was said in confidence. But you'll get press previews first week of September - even reviews.

His take then was that FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES - but stressed to point out thats more about opinion than fact.

For him, stats in passing, and even having the confidence to play in confined spaces is more satisfying in PES, although FIFA 11 has caught up so much in this respect the physical nature of them game has been toned down loads.

Secondly, animations in FIFA 11, and player specific ones, are now beyond PES. EA have caught up and surpassed PES in this field this year, with things like first touch and first time passes being a joy in FIFA 11.

He went onto mention that as a full game (presentation, feel, visual satisfaction, audio, graphics) again FIFA 11 is still way ahead of PES 2011. He used the words solid and reliable. He feels PES 2011 is fantastic in spots, but as a whole suffers from Konami trying new things, where as EA have developed their engine to such a degree it's untouchable. The game is so satisfying, that even the better aspects of PES aren't big enough for him to go back to Konami's game.

The last part is the most interesting, where he states animations now look believable. They're less OTT and from gameplay cam can look like less than last year. They're not less, but the way they're represented makes it feel much more realistic.

His conculsion then, is while PES is better in core play feel of a player, and even one player vs CPU (states one play AI in FIFA 11 still needs work), EA aren't far off on those things. So for him FIFA 11 will rule again, but not just for FIFA fans, but fans across all bases.
Click to expand...

I smell bullshit. FIFA 11 graphics will not be as good as pes. The pictures show different. PES will always own fifa for graphics were as fifa is the top dog for animations.
 
goalgerd said:
this was posted in the fifa forum,contains info from journos who have now played both pes 2011 and fifa 2011

Quote:
Hey guys, just wanted to give you guys some impressions from some of my mates in the press who have both FIFA 11 and PES 2011 code.

I thought I'd post it in here though, as it's more favourable for FIFA 11 right now. He did say, comparisons are maybe unfair as he has same preview code of PES as me (around 70-75%), but around 90% FIFA 11 code. So pretty much what we'll be playing in Cologne.

I won't name names either, as it was said in confidence. But you'll get press previews first week of September - even reviews.

His take then was that FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES - but stressed to point out thats more about opinion than fact.

For him, stats in passing, and even having the confidence to play in confined spaces is more satisfying in PES, although FIFA 11 has caught up so much in this respect the physical nature of them game has been toned down loads.

Secondly, animations in FIFA 11, and player specific ones, are now beyond PES. EA have caught up and surpassed PES in this field this year, with things like first touch and first time passes being a joy in FIFA 11.

He went onto mention that as a full game (presentation, feel, visual satisfaction, audio, graphics) again FIFA 11 is still way ahead of PES 2011. He used the words solid and reliable. He feels PES 2011 is fantastic in spots, but as a whole suffers from Konami trying new things, where as EA have developed their engine to such a degree it's untouchable. The game is so satisfying, that even the better aspects of PES aren't big enough for him to go back to Konami's game.

The last part is the most interesting, where he states animations now look believable. They're less OTT and from gameplay cam can look like less than last year. They're not less, but the way they're represented makes it feel much more realistic.

His conculsion then, is while PES is better in core play feel of a player, and even one player vs CPU (states one play AI in FIFA 11 still needs work), EA aren't far off on those things. So for him FIFA 11 will rule again, but not just for FIFA fans, but fans across all bases.
Click to expand...

i dont see how that is such a big leap over Konamis efforts apart from technical showcases in animations and better menu layouts :CONFUSE:
 
When it comes to player form, is it completely random? Or does form take into account performance on the pitch as well?

I really like how in PES form forces you to make tough decisions and play a larger number of squad variations, but on the other hand I do like that in FIFA form is determined by performance.

Isn't the best system the one that most effectively combines the two (randomness and performance related)?
 
What I said in the FIFA forum on PES vs FIFA impressions:

Have to say, these impressions worry me. This in particular: "FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES."

Basically, that's the status quo of the last few years, which means I won't be getting my wish this year: a more realistic FIFA, a return to form PES, or both.
 
goalgerd said:
this was posted in the fifa forum,contains info from journos who have now played both pes 2011 and fifa 2011
Click to expand...

Yeah, journos
i trust a lot more player's impressions than journo's
i want to see improvements of pes 2011 compared to pes 2010, i don't really care about fifa
 
Ameppe said:
Yeah, journos
i trust a lot more player's impressions than journo's
i want to see improvements of pes 2011 compared to pes 2010, i don't really care about fifa
Click to expand...

This guy nailed it. Worry about your own preference and not the preference of others.

Looking forward to both but PES has always "got" control and flow of football better than Fifa. There are things FIFA is better than PES at too but really the reason I get PES is for the control and individuality anyways. Both sound stellar so far.
 
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