AHTPAKCA
Banned
- 24 October 2009
PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
spektarm
Premier League
- 6 October 2006
- Manchester United
Seems like everything you said makes sense and I agree with your criticism. Nothing more to say.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Well because i played it on PC with patches. Teams played differently due to correct formations, sliders etc.. it would be a slighty different story i think on the PS3, Xbox etc...
Thought i would clear that up
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
I'd love Konami to add a "Classic" section in Exhibition mode (corned off from the rest of the game) were you can select teams like United 1999, Milan 90, Barcelona 97 Etc Would be great fun.
I do not know if you've already seen? Below you have the original link!
Originally Posted by juce
i admit that i have not read the press realeses or reviews from game magazines. I did watch a couple of videos that were posted on the Internet. It is, of course, too early to say anything definitive, but from the experience of the past few years, the pattern was always the same: new game, very high expectations, many changes in the game (GOOD), but not in the aspects that improve gameplay. For me PES2008 - PES2010 gameplay-wise is pretty much the same, and it does not have a feel of a football match. It's a delicate balance, and i'm not suggesting it is easy to do, but i think we all know what Konami is capable of. Opinions differ on whether PES5 or PES6 was the best, but overall consensus is that the gameplay in those two games was far superior to the current next-gen series.
Konami do not want to release a mediocre game, i think you're misunderstanding what i said. PES2010 is a very good game, and there is every chance that PES2011 will be even better. The problem for me with these games however, is that there is too much focus on the visual presentation and not enough attention to try to make the gameplay more believable, more football-like. Gameplay is a combination of graphics, animation, physics, tactics, and many other small things. It is VERY DIFFICULT to find the right balance and have the game feel like it is a football match. Konami had done it with PS2-generation of games, but not with the new-gen (IMHO). And for me, that is the deciding factor. You can have all leagues in the world, balls, kits, tournaments, stadiums, extremely deep management in Master League - but ultimately it all doesn't matter, if when you play the match you don't believe it is football.
Unfortunately, it seems that Konami is currently concentrating on perfecting the visual aspect of the game. It is of course an important part. However, the very fact that people still play PES5 and PES6 is a proof that the hard-core fans of the series want the gameplay, not graphics. You would think that if Konami wanted to target that audience, they would put most of their efforts into improving animations of players, physics and collisions, and also going back to implementing little things right, that combined make a huge difference (like when ball is out of play, the clock shouldn't stop). That is not the case though, so that is why i'm saying that Konami is going after a wider audience - people who don't necessarily want to spend hundreds of hours of playing the game, but for whom graphics and sound is very important, because it is the first thing they see. Again, i'm not saying Konami is right or wrong to **** a particular audience. It is THEIR game and THEIR business to run. But personally, i'm one of those who don't like the direction in which the game is going. That's all.
As for Kitserver future, I honestly do not see myself doing a Kitserver for 2011 - for variety of reasons. I'm sorry if this is disappointing news. Actually, I really wish i had stopped earlier - perhaps after PES2008, but what's done is done. That is not to say that the Kitserver project is necessarily doomed. If there is enough interest, i think there is a chance that a version for PES2011 will be released - i've been in contact with a couple of very bright folks, who have the skills to **** up the project and continue with it.
Originally Posted by juce
i admit that i have not read the press realeses or reviews from game magazines. I did watch a couple of videos that were posted on the Internet. It is, of course, too early to say anything definitive, but from the experience of the past few years, the pattern was always the same: new game, very high expectations, many changes in the game (GOOD), but not in the aspects that improve gameplay. For me PES2008 - PES2010 gameplay-wise is pretty much the same, and it does not have a feel of a football match. It's a delicate balance, and i'm not suggesting it is easy to do, but i think we all know what Konami is capable of. Opinions differ on whether PES5 or PES6 was the best, but overall consensus is that the gameplay in those two games was far superior to the current next-gen series.
Konami do not want to release a mediocre game, i think you're misunderstanding what i said. PES2010 is a very good game, and there is every chance that PES2011 will be even better. The problem for me with these games however, is that there is too much focus on the visual presentation and not enough attention to try to make the gameplay more believable, more football-like. Gameplay is a combination of graphics, animation, physics, tactics, and many other small things. It is VERY DIFFICULT to find the right balance and have the game feel like it is a football match. Konami had done it with PS2-generation of games, but not with the new-gen (IMHO). And for me, that is the deciding factor. You can have all leagues in the world, balls, kits, tournaments, stadiums, extremely deep management in Master League - but ultimately it all doesn't matter, if when you play the match you don't believe it is football.
Unfortunately, it seems that Konami is currently concentrating on perfecting the visual aspect of the game. It is of course an important part. However, the very fact that people still play PES5 and PES6 is a proof that the hard-core fans of the series want the gameplay, not graphics. You would think that if Konami wanted to target that audience, they would put most of their efforts into improving animations of players, physics and collisions, and also going back to implementing little things right, that combined make a huge difference (like when ball is out of play, the clock shouldn't stop). That is not the case though, so that is why i'm saying that Konami is going after a wider audience - people who don't necessarily want to spend hundreds of hours of playing the game, but for whom graphics and sound is very important, because it is the first thing they see. Again, i'm not saying Konami is right or wrong to **** a particular audience. It is THEIR game and THEIR business to run. But personally, i'm one of those who don't like the direction in which the game is going. That's all.
As for Kitserver future, I honestly do not see myself doing a Kitserver for 2011 - for variety of reasons. I'm sorry if this is disappointing news. Actually, I really wish i had stopped earlier - perhaps after PES2008, but what's done is done. That is not to say that the Kitserver project is necessarily doomed. If there is enough interest, i think there is a chance that a version for PES2011 will be released - i've been in contact with a couple of very bright folks, who have the skills to **** up the project and continue with it.
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uae_sniper
The Sniper
u remember me an old game on PS2 called Viva ..
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
I think your being a little harsh there bud to be fair. I've seen some unbelievable runs and AI movmement of late. And the Player Card Attacking setting makes a huge difference. Nothing more so than a checked run by De Melo for Lille just other night. It left my completely gobsmacked by its realism. De Melo made a run anticipating a cross, the Everton defence held it's backline on the edge of their box. De Melo ran offside, then checked back on himself, brought himself back onside, then made a run square with the box and the Everton defensive line, before cutting inside just as the ball was played. He met the cross on the penalty spot and powered a header home.
I actually thought he was a mile offside in real-time due to the fact he was so far clear of any defenders. After watching the replay, his run was timed perfectly. It was so clever it almost defied what we should expect from a video game. It was so Micheal Owen/Shearer/Lineker-esque, it literally blew me away. I'm still gobsmaked now as to how this is programmed. I rewatched it about 5 times in amazement, I just wish I had saved it for the check/run alone. Genius.
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Kaiser
PES Enthusiast
- 3 July 2003
- Borusse
Those teams will have a "novelty" value at best. Obviously not for our South American friends but am i really going to still be picking one months after playing it?
Nik
ARHS na goustaris!
I do not know if you've already seen? Below you have and the original link!
Originally Posted by juce
i admit that i have not read the press realeses or reviews from game magazines. I did watch a couple of videos that were posted on the Internet. It is, of course, too early to say anything definitive, but from the experience of the past few years, the pattern was always the same: new game, very high expectations, many changes in the game (GOOD), but not in the aspects that improve gameplay. For me PES2008 - PES2010 gameplay-wise is pretty much the same, and it does not have a feel of a football match. It's a delicate balance, and i'm not suggesting it is easy to do, but i think we all know what Konami is capable of. Opinions differ on whether PES5 or PES6 was the best, but overall consensus is that the gameplay in those two games was far superior to the current next-gen series.
Konami do not want to release a mediocre game, i think you're misunderstanding what i said. PES2010 is a very good game, and there is every chance that PES2011 will be even better. The problem for me with these games however, is that there is too much focus on the visual presentation and not enough attention to try to make the gameplay more believable, more football-like. Gameplay is a combination of graphics, animation, physics, tactics, and many other small things. It is VERY DIFFICULT to find the right balance and have the game feel like it is a football match. Konami had done it with PS2-generation of games, but not with the new-gen (IMHO). And for me, that is the deciding factor. You can have all leagues in the world, balls, kits, tournaments, stadiums, extremely deep management in Master League - but ultimately it all doesn't matter, if when you play the match you don't believe it is football.
Unfortunately, it seems that Konami is currently concentrating on perfecting the visual aspect of the game. It is of course an important part. However, the very fact that people still play PES5 and PES6 is a proof that the hard-core fans of the series want the gameplay, not graphics. You would think that if Konami wanted to target that audience, they would put most of their efforts into improving animations of players, physics and collisions, and also going back to implementing little things right, that combined make a huge difference (like when ball is out of play, the clock shouldn't stop). That is not the case though, so that is why i'm saying that Konami is going after a wider audience - people who don't necessarily want to spend hundreds of hours of playing the game, but for whom graphics and sound is very important, because it is the first thing they see. Again, i'm not saying Konami is right or wrong to **** a particular audience. It is THEIR game and THEIR business to run. But personally, i'm one of those who don't like the direction in which the game is going. That's all.
As for Kitserver future, I honestly do not see myself doing a Kitserver for 2011 - for variety of reasons. I'm sorry if this is disappointing news. Actually, I really wish i had stopped earlier - perhaps after PES2008, but what's done is done. That is not to say that the Kitserver project is necessarily doomed. If there is enough interest, i think there is a chance that a version for PES2011 will be released - i've been in contact with a couple of very bright folks, who have the skills to **** up the project and continue with it.
As far as i know, Juce is a legend. I think he is responsible for all the kitservers out there and we should be thankful for his work.
There is hope for PES 2011 and if the game brings the gameplay back, then this fella might once again do his miracles and the PC community will once again have an fully working and awesome kitserver. I just hope that KONAMI won't disappoint us this year and the hardcore fan base will finally move to next gen, because lets face it 3 years is helluva a lot of time to wait for a proper NG PES.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Tactics, Individually maybe? Or is that not gameplay?
I mean Konami might as well not even bothered to increase the freedom, enhance the tactical play and positioning AI since the 'Hardcore' Only cares about tight dribbling, v-feints, taking past players with fake shots and using the 'special' lob.
So basically Konami have failed with PES 2011 because the animations are up to their standard? I mean, fuck the rest of the game, animations or nothing. You know what, it's boring repeating myself so i think I'll stay away from this discussion and maybe rejoin when the demo hits,
Take care
Kaiser
PES Enthusiast
- 3 July 2003
- Borusse
Not a truer word spoken on here!! It is dissapointing to say the least.
I just want PES to have that fun factor it used to have always something different in it would happen which made you love PES and WE and not FIFA!
Me and Intrepid had hours of fun on wednesday night playing Winning Eleven 5 Final Evolution on PS2 and we both wished it would replicate that and agreed WE always felt a better game but PES was getting there!
I hope juce is impressed by PES2011 and changes his mind.
With regards, 2008-2010, juce is right. Focus on gameplay took a backseat to other concerns, which was sad, but not just limited to this game. The early games in all genres aimed at the current consoles were all flash, no substance.But it doesn't explain why PES6 was also poor by PES standards.
To say the game was "over-coded" and became too complicated, thus breaking the game, I don't know. There were things added that didn't do the game any favors, but there was a broken AI system which crippled the game as a football simulator. Players suddenly jumping out of position, defences that wouldn't defend in any realistic shape, keepers that wouldn't react to shots, players that wouldn't make runs (looking at the off the ball players, it looked like the AI didn't even exist to tell them to move around). There were so many things that were just never programmed or programmed very badly, all in favor of some newer graphical touches.
For me, it felt like the WEP team became subjects of the game and were almost blinkered to the outside world of real football. Sometimes you need to step back from it and get your perspective back in line.
With regards, 2008-2010, juce is right. Focus on gameplay took a backseat to other concerns, which was sad, but not just limited to this game. The early games in all genres aimed at the current consoles were all flash, no substance.But it doesn't explain why PES6 was also poor by PES standards.
To say the game was "over-coded" and became too complicated, thus breaking the game, I don't know. There were things added that didn't do the game any favors, but there was a broken AI system which crippled the game as a football simulator. Players suddenly jumping out of position, defences that wouldn't defend in any realistic shape, keepers that wouldn't react to shots, players that wouldn't make runs (looking at the off the ball players, it looked like the AI didn't even exist to tell them to move around). There were so many things that were just never programmed or programmed very badly, all in favor of some newer graphical touches.
For me, it felt like the WEP team became subjects of the game and were almost blinkered to the outside world of real football. Sometimes you need to step back from it and get your perspective back in line.
What teams do you want that aren't novelty teams?
Kaiser
PES Enthusiast
- 3 July 2003
- Borusse
Who else?
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
That's great ahah, well done.
Kaiser
PES Enthusiast
- 3 July 2003
- Borusse
Nik
ARHS na goustaris!
I've recently discovered Winning Eleven 9 Liveware Evolution, 3 months ago and since then I've been hammering it every single free minute i have. The 6 stars difficulty is very challenging and you must really build up your attack. There is no word to describe the game, it's not perfect, but it is better then all NG games nowadays.
Keepers are awesome, they are very well animation and the A.I. is doing a great job. When you are on 1on1 situation with a keeper you must really surprise him with something otherwise he will get the ball no matter what.
The Defensive A.I. is also good, they are holding their lines very well and they are pressing with caution. It is really hard to make spaces for a long shots or even passes, a defender will run and cut your pass.
The shooting system is a gem, the assistance is very miniscule and you are responsible for the trajectory of the ball if you miss the goal it is your fault and the satisfaction from a goal is even greater, then PES 6 itself
.Crosses are a bit confusing at firs, they take a lot of practice to master and after 2 seasons of ML I'm still not very good at crossing.
All in all, WE9LE is TOTAL FOOTBALL! Your skills are tested at the very maximum and if you make a mistake the chances for the A.I. to punish you are equal to reality.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
To be fair, I'll be living in the Copa Libertadores. I love those South American players, their technique is through the roof. And the kit's look stunning. I just hope I draw a Copa team for next seasons PEEL Domestic League.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
A quote from a guy at WENB quoting additional edit mode info from PESFAN
So on stadiums and kit logos, when you save it, it doesn't ask for slot. Why isn't it like that for everything?
Jaymez Hetfield said:oh hai
More info about the edit mode from the PesFan boards coming thru...
And i quote...
" Originally Posted by iancurtis1980 View Post
Probably has been asked before, but will we be able to edit licensed teams kits?
How many slots for emblems, kits, music and chants will we have?
re: kit logos
When you create and save a kit logo, it just saves to the hard drive (like a stadium). You don't get a screen like this to choose a slot, it just saves. When you create an emblem, you have to choose a slot (1-46) to save it to, so we're assuming that you can have more than 200 kit logos.
Originally Posted by Daymos View Post
Hey dragonskin...
you know im on this already.. this import feature is brilliant news especially for us Xbox 360 owners..
Id like to know if we can import created teams from 2010 into 2011?
either way I think I now have motivation to create another patch with the championship and now the bundesliga too..
does anyone know how many teams can be created in the empty leagues?
dude it feels good to be able to start creating now using 2010 but before I do, I need to know exactly what can and cant be transfered over.. for instance theres no point me creating Championship or bundesliga players now if they cant be transfered over but ill do kit logos and emblems now with no problems..
Cool
When you choose to import PES 2010 data it asks you:
Use prequel line up data or not?
Use prequel face data or not?
Then you can import kit logos!
Badges imported as well (Blackpool/WBA/Newcastle still had default)
Start a match as Everton and their home kit will have Chang on it.
Player names didn't seem to come across though as teams like Wales, USA and Mexico had fake names. "
....end quote.
Could it be that this year, kits truly are limited only to your harddrive size ? That should mean that EVERYone can have full kits for every team, seeing as PNGs are around 50 to 80kb a go for each 72dpi kit front
Shame edited player names don't shift across tho, that'd save me many hours. I had edited EVERY player name in 2010 to upper and lower case and correct team rosters even for the little international teams like Thailand ! :ugeek:
So on stadiums and kit logos, when you save it, it doesn't ask for slot. Why isn't it like that for everything?
Kaiser
PES Enthusiast
- 3 July 2003
- Borusse
No i know what you mean J but After hammering this game and those teams getting picked till your fingers bleed are they going to be anymore sought after than say Copenhagen?(who were great for scalping Inter whores on PES6)
Also regards to the bold is there a danger konami will over salt the soup on technique, shot power, tricks etc for these teams?
Like you say, we could end up with a FIFA street!
Yes change is nice and it will be fresh but after awhile......
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The anti-Southern American club stance seems to be complaining for the sake of it. Give me washed up South Americans and young talents over the lesser lights of European football.
At least these teams offer something different. Argentine football has its own unique style, as does Brazilian. If the game implements them well, it'd be a joy to play.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
WOW !! Great find Anderson, talk about Konami coming up trumps with the editing side. Not even the most optimistic amongst us could have ever dreamed PES 2011 would be backwards compatible with PES 2010. This will be a modders dream come true.
Edit -
We just need confirmation now on the chant slots, I really hope they have upped it from the pitfyful 64 in PES 2010. Imagine a full roster of Copa Team chants ? What an atmosphere, it will be like the Maracana all over again.
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Kaiser
PES Enthusiast
- 3 July 2003
- Borusse
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
WOW !! Great find Anderson, talk about Konami coming up trumps with the editing side. Not even the most optimistic amongst us could have ever dreamed PES 2011 would be backwards compatible with PES 2010. This will be a modders dream come true.
Edit -
We just need confirmation now on the chant slots, I really hope they have upped it from the pitfyful 64 in PES 2010. Imagine a full roster of Copa Team chants ? What an atmosphere, it will be like the Maracana all over again.
To me it doesn't make much sense they leave it like that, unlimited slots for some things, and extremely limited for others. I could be wrong, but this is very likely to change.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
True. Kaiser isnt a troll Joe, far from it.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
We just need confirmation now on the chant slots, I really hope they have upped it from the pitfyful 64 in PES 2010. Imagine a full roster of Copa Team chants ? What an atmosphere, it will be like the Maracana all over again.
That would make my day.
Only 64 chants is pitiful. Make it unlimited.
That would make my day.
Only 64 chants is pitiful. Make it unlimited.
A boot editor like the one on NBA 2K10, a better kit editor, more slots for more editable teams and a few more licenses...that would make my day! .
dmxdex2020
Premier League
ffs english please.