PES 2011 Discussion thread

[Jamezinho]

Though I don't expect a release date to be announced next week, perhaps we'll get an earlier than usual release this year? Sounds as though the game is at an advanced stage already. Konami would be wise to get PES 2011 on the shelves before Fifa 11 to show confidence and really up the ante.

 

[_anderson]

Though I don't expect a release date to be announced next week, perhaps we'll get an earlier than usual release this year? Sounds as though the game is at an advanced stage already. Konami would be wise to get PES 2011 on the shelves before Fifa 11 to show confidence and really up the ante.

I would say it's possible, because I believe the Blue Sky Team is working on PES 2011 in particular for two years now, PES 2010 was only a small update (with a huge graphical one, I know) to the previous releases. And I believe that if Konami wants anything at all, they need more than an update.

 

[Lami]

I believe 2011 is something special only because Seabass himself finally confessed that the animation system used for all the past games were the same old one used since the 90s! And a new one will be placed for 2011.

Here's hoping its a good one, just like they got us hooked during the PS2 days.

Forget all the hype made by anyone.

You be the judge.

 

[Gab_]

Really Lami he said that? Do you have a source on that statement?

I'm in the PES 2011 hype this time, I can feel it...

 

[klashman69]

I believe 2011 is something special only because Seabass himself finally confessed that the animation system used for all the past games were the same old one used since the 90s! And a new one will be placed for 2011.

Here's hoping its a good one, just like they got us hooked during the PS2 days.

Forget all the hype made by anyone.

You be the judge.

Let's all pray it's PES 2010 with great animations

Rather than a copy of fifa 10

 

[freak08]

BLUE SKY will take PES back to throne
King is returning !! yaaaay !!

 

[Northzzz]

Let's all pray it's PES 2010 with great animations

Rather than a copy of fifa 10

I agree but every reviewer will still give Fifa 11 10/10 and Pes 2011 7 or 8/10

Just because 98% of games reviewers are clueless and base every game score on hype and how popular the game will be.

That's the one thing that is holding PES back currently and it's not even their fault. A lot of people still depend on reviews of games from professional sources rather than actual experience and that is currently holding the PES series back.

After playing both games extensively both PES and FIFA this year were 7/10 titles but that doesn't reflect what the reviewers gave Fifa. They need to start reviewing games as individual products and not just based on other games, it's ridiculous. You don't base a film on how good another film was, you take it as an individual entity and it should be this way with games. If they don't specifically mention other games then you know that they are thinking of other ones. Pes games are both rated against FIFA and the games of the former glory days.

 

[RAMAXWY]

agree, why FIFA gets rated so high year after year is beyond me.

 

[Gab_]

Reviewers are just like normal people. They didn't switch directly to FIFA 08 and saying that it was the better game of the two (even if it is the same difference between them as now). I've written about this before, it has to do with repeating what the "leaders" are saying is the most realistic football game currently. The public's (which also includes reviewers) opinion always lags behind because of this.

So even if PES 2011 will be the most realistic of the two games, it will not be the one that gets best reviews for a couple of years. This is why it's so important in sports games to make the game as realistic as possible, and not have casual gamers as the main target. Because casuals will in time always follow the leaders (what is cool to like) and the leader people always looks for the most realistic experience (in sports games at least).

This is the problem for PES. They lost the leaders and now they have to pay for this, because it will lag behind like always so they won't be back in the old sales numbers in probably 3 years (given that PES 2011 and later actually brings the leader types back).

 

[Lami]

Really Lami he said that? Do you have a source on that statement?

I'm in the PES 2011 hype this time, I can feel it...

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=57563

The first post.

In an interview in the recent issue of Famitsu, series producer (and originally programmer) Shingo "Seabass" Takatsuka cited the criticisms Winning Eleven has taken over the years, particularly in Europe, and promised for this year a Winning Eleven that's been powered up many levels.

The updates will come in both graphics and gameplay areas. Winning Eleven games until now, he said, have been just extensions of the Famicom era. Players were fine with this through the PlayStation 2 , but the development staff now need to change their concepts and ideas to something more appropriate for the new generation machines like Xbox 360 and PS3.

He wouldn't give share specifics about what kind of changes to expect, but he did say that the area of the game that most clearly shows the changes is the relationship between AI and player motions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's all pray it's PES 2010 with great animations

Rather than a copy of fifa 10

That is the last thing I'd want.

 

[Gab_]

Thanks Lami, great to hear.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Reviewers are just like normal people. They didn't switch directly to FIFA 08 and saying that it was the better game of the two (even if it is the same difference between them as now). I've written about this before, it has to do with repeating what the "leaders" are saying is the most realistic football game currently. The public's (which also includes reviewers) opinion always lags behind because of this.

So even if PES 2011 will be the most realistic of the two games, it will not be the one that gets best reviews for a couple of years. This is why it's so important in sports games to make the game as realistic as possible, and not have casual gamers as the main target. Because casuals will in time always follow the leaders (what is cool to like) and the leader people always looks for the most realistic experience (in sports games at least).

This is the problem for PES. They lost the leaders and now they have to pay for this, because it will lag behind like always so they won't be back in the old sales numbers in probably 3 years (given that PES 2011 and later actually brings the leader types back).

that casual gamers always follow the leaders seems logical but what is the reason which makes the leaders say a average game is lightyears better than the game which delivers the best footballing experience game wise.

if even they get sucked up into the hype it doesn't make them leaders does it?

leaders make up their own minds and can give you arguments enough why they choose something,so unless their is money involved why would they play the inferior product and praise it too?

 

[maph]

Estás seguro de esto?

"Next week don't expect too much information. I say this because of the hype. People likes to throw lures to attract people to their websites.

The important news that PES followers care about will come near the world cup start, and during it.

So until then we won't have many news"

So why dont you give us some inside like you did last year? As I remember you were telling a lot of stuff of which some points turned out to be true and some not.

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

So why dont you give us some inside like you did last year? As I remember you were telling a lot of stuff of which some points turned out to be true and some not.

Las compañias hacen muchas pruebas, incluyen y quitan caracteristicas, por eso algunas cosas finalmente no salieron en pes2010.

Aunque el juego en si puede estar muy avanzado en lo que ha jugabilidad se refiere, el tema de "adornos" puede sufrir variantes...un dia consigues una licencia y en unos meses pierdes otra...

Algo seguro, y que este año no tengais ninguna duda de que estara en Pes2011 son los 360º.

 

[_anderson]

Las compañias hacen muchas pruebas, incluyen y quitan caracteristicas, por eso algunas cosas finalmente no salieron en pes2010.

Aunque el juego en si puede estar muy avanzado en lo que ha jugabilidad se refiere, el tema de "adornos" puede sufrir variantes...un dia consigues una licencia y en unos meses pierdes otra...

Algo seguro, y que este año no tengais ninguna duda de que estara en Pes2011 son los 360º.

"Companies make alot of tests, they include and remove characteristics, that's why some stuff didn't came out with PES 2010.

Although the game can be pretty advanced in gameplay, when it comes to "ornaments" it can be different. One day you get a license, and then you lose another one...

Something you can be sure is that this year's PES includes 360º for sure."

 

[Ameppe]

"Companies make alot of tests, they include and remove characteristics, that's why some stuff didn't came out with PES 2010.

Although the game can be pretty advanced in gameplay, when it comes to "ornaments" it can be different. One day you get a license, and then you lose another one...

Something you can be sure is that this year's PES includes 360º for sure."

What you mean here?
360° in movement and dribbling or 360° in passing too?

I mean, can we choose the exact spot where we want to put the ball or direction will be predetermined authomatically by the game?

 

[_anderson]

What you mean here?
360° in movement and dribbling or 360° in passing too?

I mean, can we choose the exact spot where we want to put the ball or direction will be predetermined authomatically by the game?

I would say there will be 360º for passing too (like the "Total Freedom/Liberty" hints would suggest), but I dunno. Let's wait for his response.

 

[freak08]

I want PES to be very different from FIFA, so that the comparison does not exist, which should make the reviewers pluck their hairs, who does not know what is football and PES all about.

 

[_anderson]

I want PES to be very different from FIFA, so that the comparison does not exist, which should make the reviewers pluck their hairs, who does not know what is football and PES all about.

How come if Fifa has copied so many stuff from older PES? It will always be different because it's PES (and hopefully won't lose the PES feeling. Even PES 2008 had it).

 

[klashman69]

Reviewers are just like normal people. They didn't switch directly to FIFA 08 and saying that it was the better game of the two (even if it is the same difference between them as now). I've written about this before, it has to do with repeating what the "leaders" are saying is the most realistic football game currently. The public's (which also includes reviewers) opinion always lags behind because of this.

So even if PES 2011 will be the most realistic of the two games, it will not be the one that gets best reviews for a couple of years. This is why it's so important in sports games to make the game as realistic as possible, and not have casual gamers as the main target. Because casuals will in time always follow the leaders (what is cool to like) and the leader people always looks for the most realistic experience (in sports games at least).

This is the problem for PES. They lost the leaders and now they have to pay for this, because it will lag behind like always so they won't be back in the old sales numbers in probably 3 years (given that PES 2011 and later actually brings the leader types back).

Yes, this is a pretty good observation PES rightfully 'lost' the leaders witht he dire game that was PES 2008, what was intresting was that meanwhile EA served up what it's clearly still their best football games to date wih FIFA 08 an EURO 2008.

FIFA 08 did get a heap load of critisisum with it's first reviews, many people were just moaning about not being able to play it really. Saying 'every game is a midfield scrap'. Yet the god awful PES 2008 got some great reviews despite the crap game just in general. The 'leaders seemed to catch on with FIFA 09 which again easily beat PES 2009.

FIFA 09 for the first 2 weeks was great until you actually explored the game in full and realized it's a good game with nice animations but a stupid amount of exploits and was in general arcadey and easy!

Yet these stupid reviers seems to rate it as if it's some god like game simply because it was better than PES 2009! It's been the same for years it seems, instead of playing the game for what it is they compare eachothers games and judge them on hype!

I wouldn't pay much attention to these reviews really at all. I haven't for a number of years not and don't intent to anytime soon.

 

[Northzzz]

I think Klash is spot on

leaders make up their own minds and can give you arguments enough why they choose something,so unless their is money involved why would they play the inferior product and praise it too?

For what my opinion is worth, i just don't think that the vast majority are good at critiquing games. I don't really know why that 9/10 seems to be the default score for game reviews. If in doubt just give it a 9/10 seems to be the most commonly employed tactic, it seems that the standard are exceptionally low for a start (well respected reviewers like IGN do it all the time). The post above basically agrees with my views as well regarding hype etc in relation to why they praise products when they don't need to.

I don't want to lambast all games reviewers though because there are a few (Edge Magazine, 1UP) that are generally really good when it comes to rating games and they reserve 9's for stellar games and 10's for godlike games. The thing is i still think that metacritic's 77 rating for PES 2010 is too high, it should be more around the 70 mark and FIFA 10 should be there too. 90? Give me a break. Obviously that kind of serves to highlight metacritic's downfalls so it doesn't matter too much really.



Somebodies point about Fifa 08 was brilliant as well. That game was by far better than PES 2008 but from the major reviewers you wouldn't have noticed it. It was only when people bought PES 2008 and played it that they began to look at FIFA 08 as the superior football game, nothing to do with how well the game was reviewed because the reviewers were mostly wrong.

 

[Miro]

In my opinion, its all about the fact that PES is not that good game as it used to be and it lacks online gaming quality, its not that FIFA is that great cause it isnt.
FIFA is the best football game on market because PES is simply bad game nowadays or not that good if u wish.

 

[tc811]

well said. It's not that EA have produced an excellent football game in FIFA, but that PES didn't improve enough to win back the fans it lost to FIFA. I remember PES being a lot less laggy online 2-3 years ago, but with games like Call of Duty it really shouldn't be an excuse for KONAMI to produce a sub-par online experience. The biggest piece of news that I'm waiting for is a genuinely revamped online mode, because I wasn't satisfied by the online part of the game.

 

[_anderson]

well said. It's not that EA have produced an excellent football game in FIFA, but that PES didn't improve enough to win back the fans it lost to FIFA. I remember PES being a lot less laggy online 2-3 years ago, but with games like Call of Duty it really shouldn't be an excuse for KONAMI to produce a sub-par online experience. The biggest piece of news that I'm waiting for is a genuinely revamped online mode, because I wasn't satisfied by the online part of the game.

I think the online system is already good enough. Problem is, input controle online gets unbearable

 

[tc811]

Sorry, what I meant to say is that the online lag needs to be eradicated. A game like CoD that is much more resource intensive has absolutely no lag online. Meanwhile I'm struggling to even play a full game because the button lag renders you unable to play at all. I'd also like to play people internationally, rather than be forced to join the US servers. It's not like all football fans are located in the US, anyways.

 

[Miro]

I think the online system is already good enough. Problem is, input controle online gets unbearable

Its not, besides where are online Clubs ? Or simply a system that allows u to play at least 5 vs 5 , which FIFA had 3 years ago ? Times they are changing, what was enough when PEs 6 was out ( 2vs 2)is simply not enough today.

 

[Gab_]

that casual gamers always follow the leaders seems logical but what is the reason which makes the leaders say a average game is lightyears better than the game which delivers the best footballing experience game wise.

if even they get sucked up into the hype it doesn't make them leaders does it?

leaders make up their own minds and can give you arguments enough why they choose something,so unless their is money involved why would they play the inferior product and praise it too?

You're right, the leader types don't judge the final product from the hype. Obviously they can get into the pre release hype because they want it to be good. But if the game doesn't deliver they won't switch back to PES just because of the hype that builds up before the release.

There were a lot of leader types that switched to FIFA 08 even if the hype was very low and it didn't get that good reviews. PES was still the game that was "cool to like" or "the game to like if you know anything about football", because like I said the casual masses lags behind.

If you went to different forums that didn't have anything to do with PES or FIFA you would only see people talk good about PES even up to early FIFA 09. Then you could see the transition when finally the lagging behind was done, and now 90% rate FIFA as the cool game and everyone that talk good about PES get thumbs down.

Konami has to get the leader types back by giving them what they want, and that is a more realistic experience than FIFA. However in today's world I guess online plays a major part for a lot of leader types too. If Konami makes a good game but still can't match FIFA Clubs (10 vs 10) then I think you'd still have plenty leader types sticking with FIFA (but not the majority).

Konami does have a good advantage still I think because the leader types have been playing PES for a long time and only played FIFA for 2-3 years. So even if leader types generally isn't fanboys, since they switch to the best game, they obviously still have fond memories of the PES series and probably feel a bit "like home" when playing it.

I they can bring back good response times coupled with smoother animations (IK based) then I think they've gone a long way by "only" doing that. Add to that a proper collision system and make the ball completely free again (in PES 2010 it moves around to suit the animations instead of players ice skating to the ball) and maybe let us have more control over the length and direction of passes (but not manual as FIFA has because it removes individuality).

The main reason that made me go back to PES even if I don't really like PES 2010 is the chaotic events that happens all the time in PES (and real life). Any player close to the ball can attack it and the keeper's saves are not scripted at all so you never know what will happen. I love that feeling, and this doesn't exist in FIFA at all because they only allow 1 player from each team to attack the ball and they got super scripted keepers that makes the same saves over and over again.

 

[freak08]

Latest rumors/news/whatever

- It comes in the first half of this week
- It includes a first video-teaser
- Some Details about radical changes in the announcement

 

[BillyBoy]

Las compañias hacen muchas pruebas, incluyen y quitan caracteristicas, por eso algunas cosas finalmente no salieron en pes2010.

Aunque el juego en si puede estar muy avanzado en lo que ha jugabilidad se refiere, el tema de "adornos" puede sufrir variantes...un dia consigues una licencia y en unos meses pierdes otra...

Algo seguro, y que este año no tengais ninguna duda de que estara en Pes2011 son los 360º.

You leaked some screens early last year. How about again this year?

 

[Junka]

Yayyyyyy its that time of the year again....LOL!!!!!!!