PES 2011 Discussion thread

When did you post that?

In his post, he actually says there are restrictions, which was my point too. So you can't really move in any said angle, only from 0 to 22.5 then switch to a different direction. So basically it means Fifa 10 has 16 basic directions, but between each of them 16 directions you can run in a range of 22.5 degrees.

But from watching videos, I haven't seen anyone making use of the 22.5 degree range and only mostly, if not all, using the 16 directions. Which again, is pretty enough for me, adding to that the transitions etc.

EDIT: I just searched the thread again and found your post. Sorry I missed it :DOH:
 
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Lami said:
In his post, he actually says there are restrictions, which was my point too. So you can't really move in any said angle, only from 0 to 22.5 then switch to a different direction. So basically it means Fifa 10 has 16 basic directions, but between each of them 16 directions you can run in a range of 22.5 degrees.
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That's not what he is saying.

when requesting a turn you will get exactly the angle you input on the left stick. One note on this however is that for turns less than 22.5 degrees (22.5 degrees may sound like an odd limit but this is basically 360 / 16 ) you will not get a turn immediately. Instead he will make the small adjustment the next time he catches up to the ball.
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The point is you can move in 360 degrees, but if you just change the direction very, very little with the stick he won't adjust to that angle before he would take the next touch anyway (otherwise he'd have to be touching the ball all the time, which isn't possible).

So if I'm running straight forward and change the direction with the analog stick 1 degree, he will change to that direction but not before he would touch the ball anyway. I can also tell him to change 2 degreed, but again, a bigger change is needed for an immediate touch. You can still go in any of the 360 directions though. It's just that a bigger change in direction is needed for immediate change.

So no, you can't say that there is 16 basics directions. That's simply incorrect. It's 360 directions.

jameslv1986 said:
ok so Gary P confirmed the gimmick, 32 will be fine for me.
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As I've explained above, no he didn't. Quite the opposite.
 
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I don't see where the confusion is coming from. In FIFA 10, you can dribble in as many different directions as you can discern with your thumb. Provided your thumb works, you can easily test dribbling to see just how free it feels. Which is, demonstrably, really fking free. To the point where you can accidentally dribble off the side of the pitch if you are right by the touchline and aren't thinking about what you are doing.

So what's artificial about claiming that something that is as near as dammit 360 degrees (even though it isn't 360 degrees), is 360 degrees??

This argument seems to have grown well out of hand considering it's a PES thread and that FIFA blatantly does have dribbling that is as close to 360 as anybody could possibly discern or ask for. There's a huge gap between PES 2010, and by the looks of it 2011, and FIFA, as far as dribbling resolution is concerned. Whether it is all that important for 2011 is subjective to the game, of course, but arguing that FIFA's movement isn't 360 when it close enough for you not to be able to tell the difference without arguing for the sake of pride, is the sort of thing that should be spoilered.
 
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romagnoli said:
I don't see where the confusion is coming from. In FIFA 10, you can dribble in as many different directions as you can discern with your thumb. Provided your thumb works, you can easily test dribbling to see just how free it feels. Which is, demonstrably, really fking free. To the point where you can accidentally dribble off the side of the pitch if you are right by the touchline and aren't thinking about what you are doing.

So what's artificial about claiming that something that is as near as dammit 360 degrees (even though it isn't 360 degrees), is 360 degrees??

This argument seems to have grown well out of hand considering it's a PES thread and that FIFA blatantly does have dribbling that is as close to 360 as anybody could possibly discern or ask for. There's a huge gap between PES 2010, and by the looks of it 2011, and FIFA, as far as dribbling resolution is concerned. Whether it is all that important for 2011 is subjective to the game, of course, but arguing that FIFA's movement isn't 360 when it close enough for you not to be able to tell the difference without arguing for the sake of pride, is the sort of thing that should be spoilered.
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If its as close to 360 dribbling, then its not 360 dribbling. And if it's ineffective, then there's no point including it and boasting about it. And I don't understand why are you bringing PES into this? I'm arguing the fact that we don't really need it and 32 directions is more than enough imo.

Trying to convince us how great Fifa is because of so called 360 dribbling that is ineffective by telling us PES doesn't and won't have it and theres a huge gap (based on what?) between PES and Fifa is just weak imo.

Watch the Fifa videos again, you'd barely see anyone making use of the so called 360 gimmick. Everyone still moves in 16 directions. Also, so called 360 dribbling in Fifa is ineffective. You can't really dribble in that game. It can't even get the basics right.

PES on the other hand, since you've decided to shove it into this argument to make it look bad without the 360 stuff, still has less directions but gets all the fundamentals of football spot on.

Gary P on 360 degree dribbling, "The effect of this is that FIFA10 feels more fluid and you can now beat defenders".

You can now beat defenders my ass. All you can do is use speed and strength to beat defenders. 360 degree dribbling has no effect on dribbling defenders whatsoever.

The art of dribbling is in PES.
 
I can dribble past defenders in FIFA and I have a cast on...:P

I think the main problem comes from the fact you have to be at walking pace to get the full 360 any faster and that goes, this needs altering as a good player can dribble on the run...

On the PES front I take it like EA we have no ML news yet? I'm praying as always for full leagues, I think that will be my epitaph... :PIRATE:
 
Sadly we don't have any ML news yet apart from mentioning it going online. Asked Murphy a few times on twitter and he still doesn't know.

About Fifa, from the many vids I've seen, and posts I've read, dribbling has always been about strength and pace. I've seen no skills tbh and also the way players hop about doesn't help.
 
Cheers for the info Lami, I don't like the sound of the ML going online, I fear this seems to be the way most games are heading..

Last note on the FIFA front there is the close control buttons you can use I have beaten two or three players at a time with it and it can be quite effective...
 
Just to clarify here as people are working themselves into a laver regarding 360 degree movement.

There is now very little difference in the movement system between pes and fifa,although if anything the system implemented in pes2011 is far more realistic being near impossible to gauge from the videos,you have to play to feel it.

All the players in pes2011 from defenders to forwards can move freely while walking with the ball its only when you run do you notice a difference between the more skilled dribblers with defenders having less ball control at speed and a heavier touch.

What i really liked was how you get a greater sense of inertia in the players movements with the kinetic energy in the ball being greater when a ball is hit while a player is in a run,what was also great is if you hit a pass hard great first touch is compromised with you having to get the ball under control as it spins away from the player requiring the user to control the ball first to execute a accurate shot or pass.

While both games now give you the abilty to turn at any point on a 360 degree circle(within reason)based on the direction yor facing,pes2011 allows you to pass and shoot on a 360 degree plain it doesnt feel as fixed as fifa with crossing angles having a far greater range.

Heading the ball in pes2011,always fifas weak point is now governed with the use of a power bar so you can weight your headers and be far more precise in your placement.
 
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My main problem with dribbling in Fifa is that it's not conducive to beating defenders with a quick change of direction and a burst of speed like you see from Messi, Robben, etc. It's still not responsive enough for me to make those kind of mazy, close-control runs with the top dribblers. It may be due to the inertia in the game and/or the complex animation engine, but either way EA needs to do something to make the game more responsive for the technically better dribblers. And at the same time tone down the physics engine so it's easier to hold onto the ball under pressure. So up until now EA haven't got the basics right of dribbling in my opinion, and 360 degrees movement does nothing to change that. I'm all for 360 movement but it will only really add anything to the experience when the basics are fixed.
 
Jamezinho said:
My main problem with dribbling in Fifa is that it's not conducive to beating defenders with a quick change of direction and a burst of speed like you see from Messi, Robben, etc. It's still not responsive enough for me to make those kind of mazy, close-control runs with the top dribblers. It may be due to the inertia in the game and/or the complex animation engine, but either way EA needs to do something to make the game more responsive for the technically better dribblers. And at the same time tone down the physics engine so it's easier to hold onto the ball under pressure. So up until now EA haven't got the basics right of dribbling in my opinion, and 360 degrees movement does nothing to change that. I'm all for 360 movement but it will only really add anything to the experience when the basics are fixed.
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This.
 
Do we have to discuss Fifa in here again, cant we just lock the door Lami ? We could have secret password like the Goonies. Maybe 'Seabass is God'. Utter those words and your allowed in. I'm sick to death of reading about Fifa in a PES thread. It's all wrong I tell you, wrong I say.

And where is Billyboy ? Calling me out in the PEEL lobby indeed. :CONFUSE:

Great game by the way Billy, I really like the way you play football, very educated. ;)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Do we have to discuss Fifa in here again, cant we just lock the door Lami ? We could have secret password like the Goonies. Maybe 'Seabass is God'. Utter those words and your allowed in. I'm sick to death of reading about Fifa in a PES thread. It's all wrong I tell you, wrong I say.
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I know how you feel. It's almost like we could do with a PES2011 discussion thread.
 
You have very little to worry about the basics are fixed being one of my biggest gripes with PES both on the current consoles and the ps2.However good fifa has become pes2011 only serves as a reminder that konami are still the masters of the subtletys and nuances of real football.
 
...is in WC2010 and more so in FIFA 11, which also has the inertia and solidity that made FIFA 10 such a floaty skatey affair.

It does seem an awful lot like arguing against something for the sake of it now. It's pretty hard to take seriously the concept of arguing against FIFA's dribbling being 360 when you wouldnt even notice if the current system was upgraded to 360, while at the same time arguing that Total Freedom is not more of a marketing catchphrase.

As for the tangent this is now being taken on, a lot of people's gripes with each game would be remedied just by learning how to play the game rather than expecting to be able to copy and paste your PES skills into FIFA or vice versa and then complaining when you aren't identically successful. I think most people who have played WC2010 in particular would point out that dribbling past people is a regular occurrence, and a read of any of the hands-on impressions coming out of Guildford/Canada ticks off Jamezinho's gripes pretty comprehensively.
 
I know to some its a nuisance, but we can't help but mention both and compare because both are trying to mimic football as much as possible in their own way.

Anyway,

group-hug2_ani.gif
 
Jamezinho said:
Expander, how are the response times in PES2011?

That's my biggest gripe with 2010 i.e. the sluggish button delay.
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i don't know if we can trust him

someone pointed out that he could be Adam from wenb, and as we know Adam never played pes 2011
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Seriously, when dont you spout your promotional progaganda to those who give a shit.:)
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Any move to make prog popular again is a very good move indeed. Does seem like a lot of shitgiving going on here though. Didn't you notice the last page or two was filled by other people posting about FIFA? I'm merely responding to Lami and Jamez's posts on that particular topic. There are plenty of fans of both titles here, hence the unavoidable crossover. That isn't even up for debate. :)
 
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Jamezinho said:
My main problem with dribbling in Fifa is that it's not conducive to beating defenders with a quick change of direction and a burst of speed like you see from Messi, Robben, etc. It's still not responsive enough for me to make those kind of mazy, close-control runs with the top dribblers. It may be due to the inertia in the game and/or the complex animation engine, but either way EA needs to do something to make the game more responsive for the technically better dribblers. And at the same time tone down the physics engine so it's easier to hold onto the ball under pressure. So up until now EA haven't got the basics right of dribbling in my opinion, and 360 degrees movement does nothing to change that. I'm all for 360 movement but it will only really add anything to the experience when the basics are fixed.
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Pes2011 is a very different game this year that will reward the skill based players that put the time in.Those with a footballing brain that understand and play football how it should be played will reap the benefit,gone are the last three years of the game being totally unbalanced.

Response times arent a issue anymore although pes2011 sticks to being realistic ie timing being the most important factor with body and foot position having a bearing on everything you do.
 
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lons_pl said:
I don't trust Expander.:YAWN:
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Draw from my posts what you will,i dont crave attention or am i looking for 5 minutes of fame,im just one of the many people that got to sample pe2011 at e3.

Im telling it how i experienced it and how the playing field has now been levelled.

Im also a regular on this site and im not going anywhere so come september when the demo is released your be able to see for yourself how honest im being.
 
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