PES 2011 Discussion thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
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I think you better get your coat. Taxi for Dusse !!
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What are you on about? FIFA has had all these stats for years and years. They haven't been used properly in the game, no, but it's hardly difficult to put some numbers in a database so what kind of proof is that for amazing individuality? You're making a fool of yourself.
 
romagnoli said:
There's fuck all PES news and people are talking out of their arses about FIFA. A mod asked a question about FIFA. Pretty much all of the FIFA talk is in relation to PES. It's gone silly now that people have stopped reading posts and started read half a sentence before replying, though.

Got anything worth saying about PES and their wonderful Blue Sky team?
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What do you mean theirs been no news. There have been about 10 previews from E3 today, all extremely positive. I think its hard to take that PES will be good this year. One preview that stood out was the guy saying he quit PES after PES 6 and after playing at E3 states it could be time to switch back.

I think for those who are PES fans, this year is looking special.
 
mr_man said:
You are talking about PES 2010 riiight?
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I hope that was only about PES 2010! Hope it doesn't extend to 2011.
klashman69 said:
I dunno, FIFA for me has the potential to be a sim game but i don't think it can go full out to simulate football as PES can.

What will happen to the huge amount of players like this:
//vid

These trick monkeys make up most of EA's fanbase. IF the game moves fully into the simulation market we will have the FIFA 08 effect and many of these players will stay away :TTTH:

This is why FIFA is better off aming to be a good, balanced game rather than a sim so it suits anyone. I think FIFA 11 will be this! Rather than a proper sim. Also i was very inimpressed with Rutters interview demonstating the diffference in dribbling. Arshavin looked like he was skating :(
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I am not impressed with anything yet to be honest. It is all just basic stuff but I hope the gameplay gets improved. The game is far from a simulation but you know, it gives me the feeling that it could be used to create a sim game if they wanted to. I am waiting to see the improvements for this year and hearing about the sim mode for FIFA 2012 gives me hope for finally getting a proper football game.
romagnoli said:
I didn't say FIFA is a sim and PES isn't. I said that PES is in no way an uncompromising sim; Konami didn't have an engine capable of merging responsiveness and balanced realistic gameplay, so they tore out the responsiveness. PES 2010 is more of a sim than FIFA 10 but I don't like either game. I just see the current EA as being much like a fledgling company who are being extremely ambitious and enthusiastic but need their focus reined in on certain areas before they build on top of it too much. Hence I asked everyone here to chip in with their thoughts and opinions, and EA have acted on that.
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Neither did I. It is just how the two games play that sets PES way behind FIFA if one was to reach simulation.
 
jameslv1986 said:
What do you mean theirs been no news. There have been about 10 previews from E3 today, all extremely positive. I think its hard to take that PES will be good this year. One preview that stood out was the guy saying he quit PES after PES 6 and after playing at E3 states it could be time to switch back.

I think for those who are PES fans, this year is looking special.
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I'm sure you'll manage.

Feel free to post some of the 10 previews up here for all to see. I've read the Gamespot on and the snippets from the Italian one so far.
 
 
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now that almost every preview is positive about pes i feel like the other side is getting a little nervous

How can it be that a simple Pes game can be even compared to our wonderful, excellent, perfect, exceptional football game?

i guess they are thinking this :FAIL:

Please stop being so fanboy
 
romagnoli said:
Perhaps the PES2011 Discussion thread is not the place to hang around waiting for FIFA 11 gameplay news? ;) There's buckets of gameplay news everywhere. Hell, ask me a question or two.



Total Freedom and Blue Sky Team, to name but two. The initials for Blue Sky should be the clue there. The amount that people here bought into that as being the turning point for PES was bewildering, given the initials for Blue Sky, and how it is a common management phrase.

I agree that Personality+ and Pro Passing are both pretty appalling though. I don't know who they're trying to pitch those terms to.
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I understand how "Total Freedom" can be a PR/marketing tool. But Blue Sky? Seriously? That's the name of a team working on future projects, and it is relevant. And I'm not sure Konami even mentioned it anywhere or even boasted about it. Not sure what you're on about there. I think you came out a bit childish there.

I see no reason whatsoever for that reaction of yours regarding Jimmy G-Force's comment earlier. You were sort of aggressive.

Lets get one thing clear here, and I'm pretty sure there are people who agree with me, that I don't like EA's approach in their football games. No matter how hard you try convincing me, or us, with all them fancy words. I've played them, I've given them lots of my time and I could not like it. The feeling was the same, deja vu, same old Fifa, same old boredom, same old scoring from the same spot over and over and over, same old zero individuality, nothing changed in the gameplay department fgs. I'm not blind, as well as many people aren't. EA have bored me with their PR and marketing campaigns. I couldn't care less what they friggin' say because they have proved me right with all the crap they come up with year after year. Don't bother replying saying Konami is no different, because I seriously don't care what marketing tool they use as well.

PES 2008 and 2009 may have been bad, but they are still playable because they have the fundamentals right somewhere in the dark realms of their mysterious code. Fifa lacks that, end of story.

Believe me, I'm going to buy Fifa this year, which I do every year since Fifa 94, and if the game managed to convince me it has finally got the football fundamentals right, then I won't hesitate saying it gives a very good game of football.

Til then, PES stays in my library of greatest games.
 
Jamezinho said:
CVG

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250039&skip=yes

Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2010/jun/17/e3-2010-pes

Jeux Video

http://www.jeuxvideo.com/articles/0001/00012993-pro-evolution-soccer-2011-e3-2010-preview.htm

Godisageek

http://www.godisageek.com/2010/06/e3-2010-pro-evolution-soccer-2011-impressions/

Italiatopgames

http://www.italiatopgames.it/section/a.asp?ID=13355

Gamespot

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6266410/pro-evolution-soccer-2011-hands-on?tag=top_stories;title;12

Tweakers.net

http://tweakers.net/reviews/1713/1/e3-pro-evolution-soccer-2011-helemaal-anders.html
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Much better, ta.

As an aside, I'm part of the Guardian GBCB PES leagues (well, I was, but I retired my copy of PES 2010). I won the first league as Fulham. Did ok as Rangers, but that was when I noticed how much of a number they've done on the lowest teams. They did have a couple of ok players in Rothen, Pedro Mendes and Beasley, but there were so many scripted fuck-ups on the part of the AI, including running the ball into my own goal after hammering square to clear for a good couple of seconds before coming into contact with it, that I just couldn't take it seriously anymore.
 
AlaaEG said:
Exactly! PES might be compelling with fun and all but it is certainly not close to simulation as FIFA. You see fluidity and animations of FIFA that could be used to create a true simulation. On the other hand, PES still needs to deal with rigid play, slow response and players that move like robots.

In other words, I look forward to FIFA becoming a true simulation and PES as the fun alternative I used to love from the PS2 old-tech days.
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You're post is full of nonsense.

Fifa, a simulation. Don't make me laugh. Please.
 
romagnoli said:
Perhaps the PES2011 Discussion thread is not the place to hang around waiting for FIFA 11 gameplay news? ;) There's buckets of gameplay news everywhere. Hell, ask me a question or two.

Total Freedom and Blue Sky Team, to name but two. The initials for Blue Sky should be the clue there. The amount that people here bought into that as being the turning point for PES was bewildering, given the initials for Blue Sky, and how it is a common management phrase.

I agree that Personality+ and Pro Passing are both pretty appalling though. I don't know who they're trying to pitch those terms to.
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Good point about 'Total Freedom'. It might to make me sound like a fanboy or something equally drab :PIRATE: but i don't mind that so much. It's more about the whole spectrum of the game and doesn't sound so much like they're advertising a specific new game mode.
 
Unfortunately, I had to abandon PES along with their terrible transition into the next gen. And Fifa definitely did a great job to fulfill my soccer desires for 2-3 years. But now I believe PES is slowly becoming playable again. If not this year, next year I will definitely be switching back or buying both.
 
I've got no problem with PES being labelled as a fun football game. I play games for fun, after all. What PES does well is cramming all the thrills and spills of a real football match into a 10 minute time frame, with all the unpredictability and randomness that makes football. If that's at the expense of true simulation then I'm fine with that.

If I want the real thing I can watch my local team, Sky Sports or play football. If I want a brilliantly fun virtual kick-about with my mates then PES really is unrivalled.
 
AK.Rabona said:
Unfortunately, I had to abandon PES along with their terrible transition into the next gen. And Fifa definitely did a great job to fulfill my soccer desires for 2-3 years. But now I believe PES is slowly becoming playable again. If not this year, next year I will definitely be switching back or buying both.
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Perfect !:))
 
AK.Rabona said:
Unfortunately, I had to abandon PES along with their terrible transition into the next gen. And Fifa definitely did a great job to fulfill my soccer desires for 2-3 years. But now I believe PES is slowly becoming playable again. If not this year, next year I will definitely be switching back or buying both.
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I want both to be good. In fact I wish there were more football titles, no not that ubisoft farce. I want to see the philosophy of football of other game companies.
 
Lami said:
I want both to be good. In fact I wish there were more football titles,
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So do I, shame this 'liscence' crap has taken over computer games, also the amount of money needed to create a football game is immense, plus marketing, etc... Football games are also extremly difficault to create from scratch.
 
Lami:
Lami said:
I understand how "Total Freedom" can be a PR/marketing tool. But Blue Sky? Seriously? That's the name of a team working on future projects, and it is relevant. And I'm not sure Konami even mentioned it anywhere or even boasted about it. Not sure what you're on about there. I think you came out a bit childish there.
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Blue Sky thinking is a management term for idealist brainstorming. It's not picked arbitrarily. As Jamez said though, that's actually a WENBism. Having done a quick google I don't see that Konami actually hyped it themselves.


I see no reason whatsoever for that reaction of yours regarding Jimmy G-Force's comment earlier. You were sort of aggressive.
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It was perfectly clear what he was trying to say. I'd debunked a few points he made, so he made a withering remark about how he's a sim purist and I'm not. He knows exactly what he was doing despite trying to protest his innocence.

Lets get one thing clear here, and I'm pretty sure there are people who agree with me, that I don't like EA's approach in their football games. No matter how hard you try convincing me, or us, with all them fancy words. I've played them, I've given them lots of my time and I could not like it. The feeling was the same, deja vu, same old Fifa, same old boredom, same old scoring from the same spot over and over and over, same old zero individuality, nothing changed in the gameplay department fgs. I'm not blind, as well as many people aren't. EA have bored me with their PR and marketing campaigns. I couldn't care less what they friggin' say because they have proved me right with all the crap they come up with year after year. Don't bother replying saying Konami is no different, because I seriously don't care what marketing tool they use as well.

PES 2008 and 2009 may have been bad, but they are still playable because they have the fundamentals right somewhere in the dark realms of their mysterious code. Fifa lacks that, end of story.

Believe me, I'm going to buy Fifa this year, which I do every year since Fifa 94, and if the game managed to convince me it has finally got the football fundamentals right, then I won't hesitate saying it gives a very good game of football.

Til then, PES stays in my library of greatest games.
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I think a lot of the problems people have with FIFA is that they aren't as familiar with how to play it as they are with PES which they've played for much of their life over the past 15 years.

Again, it's fine if people genuinely prefer PES, and it doesn't bother me if they carry on playing PES. I personally haven't played FIFA 10 in anything but Clubs or the odd manual single player game for about 4 months, because of the reasons you give. At the moment I can't play PES 2010 either for reasons I've given almost as many times as I have for FIFA.

But I, personally, see a shedload of potential in FIFA as a bona fide long term first choice football game. There are a lot of things it does which differ from PES but are actually closer to how football works; it's the package as a whole up till now that is still well behind those mythical PES's.

If somebody says something about FIFA that's pretty inaccurate (as Jimmy in particular is wont to do) then I will pipe up, just as I publicly disagree with people on FIFA forums when they talk rubbish about PES (and, yes, I've been called a PES fanboy many a time over there). I'm not going to stop doing that, even if it means I'll still be against the flow of traffic in both PES and FIFA forums. It's because I do this that I managed to get a bloody massive list of suggestions from members of these forums, who are all former/current PES enthusiasts, and send them direct to the creative director of EA Sports Canada for possible implementation into the game, and by hell a lot of them have been implemented and will continue to be implemented.

The solution to me talking less about FIFA in here is for the main offenders to stop talking rubbish about FIFA. As I said at the start, there are plenty of valid criticisms to be laid at FIFA's door; stick with them rather than making up imaginary criticisms.

Klash:

Absolutely. Team Sport sims are by far and away the most sophisticated type of game available (that I can think of right now!). The maths and science behind it is utterly frightening, especially now that people are expecting more and more complexities out of everything.
 
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well, i liked the trailer tbh, i liked the new dribbling/technical moves, that what was missing i think...
I liked too the integration of Copa Libertadores with Corinthians and Estudiantes..... looks goodn besides faces looks niice(Ronaldo, D'Allesandro, and a player in Corinthians that i didn't recognize look @01:54..). the gamplay seems tweaked and enhancd too...looking forward to the Demo, any ideas on release date btw ?
 
romagnoli said:
Lami:

If somebody says something about FIFA that's pretty inaccurate (as Jimmy in particular is wont to do) then I will pipe up, just as I publicly disagree with people on FIFA forums when they talk rubbish about PES (and, yes, I've been called a PES fanboy many a time over there).
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Roman's views are entirley balanced, but he clearly believes in FIFA and think it has more potential so he's on a relentless charge to get the best out of the game. Your more FIFA than PES but fanboy is the last thing i would call you, the VERY LAST thing!

Which sums up the EA UK forums really. Some idiot decided to make a thread stating Iniesta is overrated because he's not scored many goals recently :CONFUSE: :SHOCK: :FAIL:


Thats a problem since like i have said a million times before these fools make up most of FIFA's fanbase :TTTH:

Why do i bother anymore with those forums, i mean there really is just a small handfull of decent posters there (glenn, zombie, darkchild, HOB, cooler, dave, craney and a few others)?
 
Jamezinho said:
I've got no problem with PES being labelled as a fun football game. I play games for fun, after all. What PES does well is cramming all the thrills and spills of a real football match into a 10 minute time frame, with all the unpredictability and randomness that makes football. If that's at the expense of true simulation then I'm fine with that.

If I want the real thing I can watch my local team, Sky Sports or play football. If I want a brilliantly fun virtual kick-about with my mates then PES really is unrivalled.
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Sounds like you would consider kart racing unrivaled by simulation racing games. :)) I am not that type to be honest. It is always nice to have cool fun alternatives but my main concern is always with sim games.

@Lami: FIFA is not a simulation until now. But the structure of the game makes it possible to get close to a simulation which I certainly hope happens to satisfy my football sim needs.
 
:lol: @ "The other side is getting nervous".

It's a football game, get over yourself. I normally buy both but for the last 2years I've decided not to waste money on PES. Why? Because the titls fell WAY below par with it's non-responsive passing and poor animation seams leading to infuriating, robotic play.

However, I'm hugely positive towards PES2011. The aspect about freedom and passing creativity is music to my ears. I used to make some crazy PES5/6 vids back in the day because of the pure unpredicatblity of runs and moves unfolding, so i'm very excited at the pure prospect of even a hint of that returning.

I see the same characters that were forcing the issue with PES2010 are trying to armstrong Romagnoli here. He's actually played Fifa11 and is fairly critical of Fifa on the other forum here so it would behooth you to read and appreciate his impressions. There's no vendetta here against PES. Please stop being paranoid. No one said PES' Personality/Indiviuality was poor. It just hasn't been the focus of PES for years and EA are seeking to improve their own ingame. On the one hand here, we have people laughing at Personlity+ in sigs etc and on the other we have the tangible fear that it may usurp PES' excellent "feel" of indiviuality that's been a bullet point used to bash FIFA on the head for years now. Shouldn't everyone be happy that EA are addressing this now then?

Personaly I'm happy with what both are doing. I hope PES' improvements lead to a more fluid game than last years, with more variety in goals. Same with Fifa. I think they both know what they have to improve and are acting accordingly.

Funnily enough I'd like PES to go back to their PES5 roots and add even more personality (not just new celebrations) for the next game (PES2012) and I'd like FIFA to improve the movement of players and gameflow for their next game (Fifa12). If we're lucky they'll both not need that much improving with PES2011 & FIFA11.
 
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romagnoli said:
Lami:
Blue Sky thinking is a management term for idealist brainstorming. It's not picked arbitrarily. As Jamez said though, that's actually a WENBism. Having done a quick google I don't see that Konami actually hyped it themselves.



It was perfectly clear what he was trying to say. I'd debunked a few points he made, so he made a withering remark about how he's a sim purist and I'm not. He knows exactly what he was doing despite trying to protest his innocence.



I think a lot of the problems people have with FIFA is that they aren't as familiar with how to play it as they are with PES which they've played for much of their life over the past 15 years.

Again, it's fine if people genuinely prefer PES, and it doesn't bother me if they carry on playing PES. I personally haven't played FIFA 10 in anything but Clubs or the odd manual single player game for about 4 months, because of the reasons you give. At the moment I can't play PES 2010 either for reasons I've given almost as many times as I have for FIFA.

But I, personally, see a shedload of potential in FIFA as a bona fide long term first choice football game. There are a lot of things it does which differ from PES but are actually closer to how football works; it's the package as a whole up till now that is still well behind those mythical PES's.

If somebody says something about FIFA that's pretty inaccurate (as Jimmy in particular is wont to do) then I will pipe up, just as I publicly disagree with people on FIFA forums when they talk rubbish about PES (and, yes, I've been called a PES fanboy many a time over there). I'm not going to stop doing that, even if it means I'll still be against the flow of traffic in both PES and FIFA forums. It's because I do this that I managed to get a bloody massive list of suggestions from members of these forums, who are all former/current PES enthusiasts, and send them direct to the creative director of EA Sports Canada for possible implementation into the game, and by hell a lot of them have been implemented and will continue to be implemented.

The solution to me talking less about FIFA in here is for the main offenders to stop talking rubbish about FIFA. As I said at the start, there are plenty of valid criticisms to be laid at FIFA's door; stick with them rather than making up imaginary criticisms.

Klash:

Absolutely. Team Sport sims are by far and away the most sophisticated type of game available (that I can think of right now!). The maths and science behind it is utterly frightening, especially now that people are expecting more and more complexities out of everything.
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Something I genuinely liked about this post is your use of the spoiler button. Love that idea. That way no one has to read through all that stuff we say. Good idea.

Now back to my panini cards. Yes, I'm a football maniac :SMUG:
 
Lami said:
Something I genuinely liked about this post is your use of the spoiler button. Love that idea. That way no one has to read through all that stuff we say. Good idea.
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Nothing else then?!? Thanks a lot, Lami.

;)

Now back to my panini cards. Yes, I'm a football maniac :SMUG:
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A mate of mine went for it this year - he was on 18 left, last time I heard. One of them's Heskey! We know the landlord at his local, and he bought £60 worth at the end of May/start of June. He had a lock-in with a few of us and got his swapsies out!

Nothing quite as surreal as sitting in a darkened pub, drinking free Guinness, with the landlord smoking a cigar saying "got...got...got....NEED...."
 
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romagnoli said:
Nothing else then?!? Thanks a lot, Lami.

;)
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Yep ;)
romagnoli said:
A mate of mine went for it this year - he was on 18 left, last time I heard. One of them's Heskey! We know the landlord at his local, and he bought £60 worth at the end of May/start of June. He had a lock-in with a few of us and got his swapsies out!

Nothing quite as surreal as sitting in a darkened pub, drinking free Guinness, with the landlord smoking a cigar saying "got...got...got....NEED...."
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:LOL:
 
oh man. wasted few pages for this. If you think PES is a sim, just eat it. if you think FIFA is a sim, swallow it. Both have their pro and cons, IMO. Don't have to compare it, yeh? The thread already named "PES 2011 Discussion thread" not "FIFA vs PES thread". Thou i may disagree with some bit of the argument, like "PES is all about indviduality" shit or "FIFA is all about personality" shit. We wait for news, we watch gameplay video, we play the game, then we mock each other when the truth came out. Right now, no point arguing. No one get to play the final product. Just believe in what you believe. We don't have to force others to do that. I'm in the side where I don't like to compare, I just pray both game is superb to the expectation. If one game is much better than the other, I dumped the bad one. No need to whine here yeh?
I personally like FIFA than PES last year. I was. But I play PES often this year. Its not good, but it bit OK.
 
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