PES 2011 Discussion thread

[Lons]

everyone needs to calm down cos the fact is both these games need each other to get better it's called compettition but one you guys (quite possibly grown men ) need to realise is that these are only computer games it just amazes me the ammount of arguing that goes on here. i thought this was a mature forum whereby people can discuss mature what they do and don't like please stop embarrasing yourselves and i'm not talking to anyone in particular cos a lot of people do this c'mon guys please.

Fifa Rulez

 

[romagnoli]

Come on, you have just lowered yourself there. My statement wasnt meant to be degrogatory, just factual. My case for why previous Fifa incarnations dont sit quite right with the 'simulation tag' are well documented. Hence the reason I dont play it. You on the other hand do play it, and it is your game of choice. Now, re-read my initial statement again, and please advise me where the childish bullshit comment stems ?

In fact dont bother, I cant go through this again.

Lovely attempt at backtracking but you know exactly what you were trying to do with that hamfisted statement you made. I don't know what sort of fools you take people on here for.

It's lunacy to suggest that PES is an uncompromising simulation. The precise way that Konami went about making PES 2010 more of a sim than PES 2009 was by breaking numerous aspects of the game, particularly responsiveness. There are only so many times people can describe a lack of responsiveness as a simulation before you start to worry that they might not be joking.

I was almost inclined to follow your advice not to respond when I read you describe FIFA as my game of choice. My game of choice is PES 5/6 as anyone who has actually read my posts with any sort of objectiveness would know. I've created threads based on my problems with FIFA 10 in particular, stretching right back to release day. However for all the problems I have with it I can see an extremely ambitious game in there, a proper football game (which we've yet to see this generation) trying to break out. FIFA 11 is a big step in that direction and it's thanks to evo-web members as much as anyone else.

PES 2011 does look like a change for the better and I look forward to getting my copy. But I won't be talking myself into a stupor about how something that still looks to be following videogame conventions to represent a football game will be a sim, nor will I be playing one football game as if it's another and then writing it off when that doesn't work.

 

[Northzzz]

You know i watched a video where Gary something was explaining how they put personality+ into shooting. I don't get it. It simply looked like one player was worse at long shots and one player was better. Doesn't that happen anyway in Fifa 10? I just watched one with Rutter where he compares dribbling between Sol Campbell and Arshavin. Doesn't Arshavin dribble faster and more precise on Fifa 10?

In the latter video he also speaks to the viewer as if the viewer is stupid which is irritating. Have you seen it?

I'll buy both games i think, i don't want to be prejudice for the sake of it. I just don't understand what Fifa is changing at all and how significant it'll be.

P.S Rutter sounds like he's trying to be a LAD as well in that video. Kind of off-putting.

 

[hanakuka]

Fifa Rulez

lol joker

 

[Northzzz]

No, PES5 was absolutely amazing and to that date the best attempt to simulate football. PES6 was a step down (or sideways, kind of) though.

I actually thought that PES6 was worse than PES5 aswell

But then again i had the xbox 360 version of PES6 and it just looked a little basic.

 

[romagnoli]

Does it turn anybody else get a littled turned off by the fact that Fifa decided rather than making the gameplay a lot better and adding in individuality they had to come up with a fucking pointless name for it (personality+). It's such a fundamental addition to any sport game that as much as it should have been in for ages anyway it shouldn't have to have a special new name. It is probably made worse in that it's the only thing regarding gameplayer that i have heard about the new game.

Perhaps the PES2011 Discussion thread is not the place to hang around waiting for FIFA 11 gameplay news? There's buckets of gameplay news everywhere. Hell, ask me a question or two.

It can be a great addition but this takes the gloss off it for me because it makes me realise that it is such an EA marketing thing to do.

I've enjoyed Konami's PR this year, there's been no bullshit terms like that. 'Teamvision' is probably as far they went and it didn't sound as condescending as 'personality+' (there's no need for the + anyway).

Total Freedom and Blue Sky Team, to name but two. The initials for Blue Sky should be the clue there. The amount that people here bought into that as being the turning point for PES was bewildering, given the initials for Blue Sky, and how it is a common management phrase.

I agree that Personality+ and Pro Passing are both pretty appalling though. I don't know who they're trying to pitch those terms to.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Perhaps the PES2011 Discussion thread is not the place to hang around waiting for FIFA 11 gameplay news? There's buckets of gameplay news everywhere. Hell, ask me a question or two.



Total Freedom and Blue Sky Team, to name but two. The initials for Blue Sky should be the clue there. The amount that people here bought into that as being the turning point for PES was bewildering, given the initials for Blue Sky, and how it is a common management phrase.

I agree that Personality+ and Pro Passing are both pretty appalling though. I don't know who they're trying to pitch those terms to.

Probably its target audience. Children.

 

[romagnoli]

NICE! PES WINS!

 

[Jess]

Does it turn anybody else get a littled turned off by the fact that Fifa decided rather than making the gameplay a lot better and adding in individuality they had to come up with a fucking pointless name for it (personality+). It's such a fundamental addition to any sport game that as much as it should have been in for ages anyway it shouldn't have to have a special new name. It is probably made worse in that it's the only thing regarding gameplayer that i have heard about the new game.

It can be a great addition but this takes the gloss off it for me because it makes me realise that it is such an EA marketing thing to do.

I've enjoyed Konami's PR this year, there's been no bullshit terms like that. 'Teamvision' is probably as far they went and it didn't sound as condescending as 'personality+' (there's no need for the + anyway).

We can hate it all we want but its smart marketing. Kids are gonna love the brand new feature thats been in PES for 9 years.

 

[AlaaEG]

Lovely attempt at backtracking but you know exactly what you were trying to do with that hamfisted statement you made. I don't know what sort of fools you take people on here for.

It's lunacy to suggest that PES is an uncompromising simulation. The precise way that Konami went about making PES 2010 more of a sim than PES 2009 was by breaking numerous aspects of the game, particularly responsiveness. There are only so many times people can describe a lack of responsiveness as a simulation before you start to worry that they might not be joking.

I was almost inclined to follow your advice not to respond when I read you describe FIFA as my game of choice. My game of choice is PES 5/6 as anyone who has actually read my posts with any sort of objectiveness would know. I've created threads based on my problems with FIFA 10 in particular, stretching right back to release day. However for all the problems I have with it I can see an extremely ambitious game in there, a proper football game (which we've yet to see this generation) trying to break out. FIFA 11 is a big step in that direction and it's thanks to evo-web members as much as anyone else.

PES 2011 does look like a change for the better and I look forward to getting my copy. But I won't be talking myself into a stupor about how something that still looks to be following videogame conventions to represent a football game will be a sim, nor will I be playing one football game as if it's another and then writing it off when that doesn't work.

Exactly! PES might be compelling with fun and all but it is certainly not close to simulation as FIFA. You see fluidity and animations of FIFA that could be used to create a true simulation. On the other hand, PES still needs to deal with rigid play, slow response and players that move like robots.

In other words, I look forward to FIFA becoming a true simulation and PES as the fun alternative I used to love from the PS2 old-tech days.

 

[AlaaEG]

NICE! PES WINS!

Because FIFARZ are children.

 

[romagnoli]

Well apparently it is intended to be representing personality in more ways than PES does, e.g not just passing inaccuracy etc. Hence there's a lot of work on giving players specific animation sets, defensive and attacking work rates, traits for how willing they are to throw themselves in front of shots, aggressiveness of tackles etc.

Time will tell how deep it actually goes. again though, it must work - these boards were knee deep in bodily fluids when the Blue Sky team was announced (which basically copied EA's dev structure . And that wasn't even part of the game!!

 

[romagnoli]

Exactly! PES might be compelling with fun and all but it is certainly not close to simulation as FIFA. You see fluidity and animations of FIFA that could be used to create a true simulation. On the other hand, PES still needs to deal with rigid play, slow response and players that move like robots.

In other words, I look forward to FIFA becoming a true simulation and PES as the fun alternative I used to love from the PS2 old-tech days.

I didn't say FIFA is a sim and PES isn't. I said that PES is in no way an uncompromising sim; Konami didn't have an engine capable of merging responsiveness and balanced realistic gameplay, so they tore out the responsiveness. PES 2010 is more of a sim than FIFA 10 but I don't like either game. I just see the current EA as being much like a fledgling company who are being extremely ambitious and enthusiastic but need their focus reined in on certain areas before they build on top of it too much. Hence I asked everyone here to chip in with their thoughts and opinions, and EA have acted on that.

 

[klashman69]

Exactly! PES might be compelling with fun and all but it is certainly not close to simulation as FIFA. You see fluidity and animations of FIFA that could be used to create a true simulation. On the other hand, PES still needs to deal with rigid play, slow response and players that move like robots.

In other words, I look forward to FIFA becoming a true simulation and PES as the fun alternative I used to love from the PS2 old-tech days.

I dunno, FIFA for me has the potential to be a sim game but i don't think it can go full out to simulate football as PES can.

What will happen to the huge amount of players like this:
YouTube - FIFA 10 - "The Beautiful Game" Online Goals Compilation

These trick monkeys make up most of EA's fanbase. IF the game moves fully into the simulation market we will have the FIFA 08 effect and many of these players will stay away

This is why FIFA is better off aming to be a good, balanced game rather than a sim so it suits anyone. I think FIFA 11 will be this! Rather than a proper sim. Also i was very inimpressed with Rutters interview demonstating the diffference in dribbling. Arshavin looked like he was skating

 

[master_smurf]

Well apparently it is intended to be representing personality in more ways than PES does, e.g not just passing inaccuracy etc. Hence there's a lot of work on giving players specific animation sets, defensive and attacking work rates, traits for how willing they are to throw themselves in front of shots, aggressiveness of tackles etc.

Time will tell how deep it actually goes. again though, it must work - these boards were knee deep in bodily fluids when the Blue Sky team was announced (which basically copied EA's dev structure . And that wasn't even part of the game!!

Really ??? - and you claimed to have played the famed (get over yourselves for name-dropping) PES5 - practically every PES (even the crap ones) do a good job of this, reason being the attributes in PES actually work and arent just there for window dressing.

Aggresion, Mentality, Balance, Shot Technique etc and the stars all come in to play and make Riquelme feel different to Lampard to Rooney to Messi. C'mon now - you are trying to set Jimmy straight but are doing the same thing.

 

[mr_man]

Exactly! PES might be compelling with fun and all but it is certainly not close to simulation as FIFA. You see fluidity and animations of FIFA that could be used to create a true simulation. On the other hand, PES still needs to deal with rigid play, slow response and players that move like robots.

In other words, I look forward to FIFA becoming a true simulation and PES as the fun alternative I used to love from the PS2 old-tech days.

You are talking about PES 2010 riiight?

 

[wan_d7]

FIFA sucks! PES sucks! Yeah!

 

[mr_man]

Arshavin looked like he was skating

I agree with you mate, it looked awful. He is a 5 star player but making him dribble like that looks awkward and unrealistic, and the skating was everywhere.

Atleast PES 2011 has footplanting this year, and for the first time you should be able to see the ball have contact with the foot at all times.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Well apparently it is intended to be representing personality in more ways than PES does,

Stewart DOWNING
Name: Stewart Jason Downing

Club: Aston Villa
Number: 6
Position: *SMF, WF
Nationality: English
Age: 25 (JUL-22-1984)

Foot: L
Side: B

Length: 180
Weight: 64

Attack: 76
Defence: 52
Balance: 76
Stamina: 85
Top Speed: 85
Acceleration: 85
Response: 80
Agility: 83
Dribble Accuracy: 85
Dribble Speed: 85
Short Pass Accuracy: 76
Short Pass Speed: 77
Long Pass Accuracy: 83
Long Pass Speed: 84
Shot Accuracy: 73
Shot Power: 82
Shot Technique: 75
Free Kick Accuracy: 80
Curling: 85
Header: 71
Jump: 77
Technique: 83
Aggression: 83
Mentality: 76
Keeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 78

Injury Tolerance: B
Condition/Fitness: 8
Weak Foot Accuracy: 6
Weak Foot Frequency: 5
Consistency: 6

CARDS:
P07 - Mazing Run
P09 - Early Cross
(S01 - Reaction)

SPECIAL ABILITIES:
*Dribbling
(*Reaction)

Beat that for individuality.

 

[Dusse]

Stewart DOWNING
Name: Stewart Jason Downing
etc etc etc

Are you serious? FIFA has had all these things (and more/different). What's difficult is to have all of them well represented in the game.

 

[romagnoli]

Really ??? - and you claimed to have played the famed (get over yourselves for name-dropping) PES5 - practically every PES (even the crap ones) do a good job of this, reason being the attributes in PES actually work and arent just there for window dressing.

Aggresion, Mentality, Balance, Shot Technique etc and the stars all come in to play and make Riquelme feel different to Lampard to Rooney to Messi. C'mon now - you are trying to set Jimmy straight but are doing the same thing.

Are you familiar with the word 'apparently'? Or 'intended to'? I even said 'time will tell how deep it goes'. I don't know how many more caveats I could openly put into one paragraph.

FWIW I doubt EA will outdo Konami for individuality in one year. PES has the luxury of being able to make Rangers play like Accrington Stanley so that, even if they also make Man Utd play like Swansea, there is still a huge difference between the two. It's still a massive step in the right direction, and one of many announcements EA have made this year that flies in the face of people's preconceptions about them not doing anything to budge away from the arcade crowd.

I don't think FIFA 11 will be an absolute sim for all these changes either. However EA have said there will almost definitely be sliders in FIFA 12, allowing users to create a full-on sim if they want.

 

[_anderson]

People still calling Fifa a simulation

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Are you serious? FIFA has had all these things (and more/different). What's difficult is to have all of them well represented in the game.

I think you better get your coat. Taxi for Dusse !!

 

[Jamezinho]

@ this thread

Can we keep the Fifa shit out of here? I want to read about PES news and the latest reactions from E3, not constant comparisons to EA, Fifa and their wonderful dev team.

 

[klashman69]

I agree with you mate, it looked awful. He is a 5 star player but making him dribble like that looks awkward and unrealistic, and the skating was everywhere.

Atleast PES 2011 has footplanting this year, and for the first time you should be able to see the ball have contact with the foot at all times.

Even Campbell looked as if he could controlt he ball very well and had no problems turning at all

 

[romagnoli]

Stewart DOWNING
Name: Stewart Jason Downing

...

Beat that for individuality.

We'll see if they do. Again, I'm sceptical. But it's one thing to list stats (85 for dribbling accuracy??) but another to see how they're used. FIFA 10 is full of attributes and traits but implements them poorly. How well does FIFA 11 use the stats - THAT is the question, and one that we won't be able to answer until it's at least a demo, but more likely after a month or two's play.

 

[master_smurf]

@ romagnoli - Please stop with the holier than thou "didnt I see the caveats" and just say what mean

- You were implying that FIFA would outdo PES at its cornerstone feature as if Konami hasnt been doing a good job at it.

A few years ago (last world cup or euros) FIFA had the game where they gave the star player special attributes and how did that go.

I am all for both games improving and pushing each other but get off your high horse and try to just comment evenly - especially if you want to call out others for it.

 

[romagnoli]

@ this thread

Can we keep the Fifa shit out of here? I want to read about PES news and the latest reactions from E3, not constant comparisons to EA, Fifa and their wonderful dev team.

There's fuck all PES news and people are talking out of their arses about FIFA. A mod asked a question about FIFA. Pretty much all of the FIFA talk is in relation to PES. It's gone silly now that people have stopped reading posts and started read half a sentence before replying, though.

Got anything worth saying about PES and their wonderful Blue Sky team?

@ romagnoli - Please stop with the holier than thou "didnt I see the caveats" and just say what mean

- You were implying that FIFA would outdo PES at its cornerstone feature as if Konami hasnt been doing a good job at it.

A few years ago (last world cup or euros) FIFA had the game where they gave the star player special attributes and how did that go.

I am all for both games improving and pushing each other but get off your high horse and try to just comment evenly - especially if you want to call out others for it.

It's not me implying anything. It's me paraphrasing what the EA Dev team said. I can supply a link if you like, but I'll need to find the link first. Again, it's not me who messed up and misread the paragraph here.

The problem with arguing with someone as partisan as Jimmy is that it will overemphasize any leanings you may have the other way. Yes I am more interested in FIFA 11 than PES 2011, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in PES 2011. I'm very interested. I just see a lot of BS being talked about FIFA in here by people who have had a couple of goes on someone else's copy and then applies received wisdom to fill in the many blanks they have left, and call them out on it.

Things like saying PES 2010 is a true uncompromising simulation (!!) while at the same time making wildly inaccurate remarks about FIFA accompanied by the phrase "that is beyond debate", is the sort of thing that will naturally irritate anyone who knows that this is bull.

 

[master_smurf]

We'll see if they do. Again, I'm sceptical. But it's one thing to list stats (85 for dribbling accuracy??) but another to see how they're used. FIFA 10 is full of attributes and traits but implements them poorly. How well does FIFA 11 use the stats - THAT is the question, and one that we won't be able to answer until it's at least a demo, but more likely after a month or two's play.

good show

 

[Jamezinho]

There's fuck all PES news and people are talking out of their arses about FIFA. A mod asked a question about FIFA. Pretty much all of the FIFA talk is in relation to PES. It's gone silly now that people have stopped reading posts and started read half a sentence before replying, though.

Got anything worth saying about PES and their wonderful Blue Sky team?

There's plenty of media impressions from E3 to discuss, the trailer, new screenshots. No need for the bullshit over the last couple of pages.

Anyway, did I mention anything about the Blue Sky team? In fact, did Konami ever mention anything about the Blue Sky team? It's all WENB-created hype, but one thing is clear - Konami have put a lot of work into PES this year. And the impressions so far are very encouraging.