PES 2011 Discussion thread

I want the J-League in because they already have it. EPL and Bundesliga would be great. Even if they ain't licensed I'm hoping for more slots.
 
Do you want to borrow my copy of FIFA? I seem to be able to do this just fine.

jonneymendoza said:
in fifa its a bit of a hack job changing formations and stratagy but in PES its alot easier. no need to go down the route of going to the editor secion of the game and editing each teams tactics before a match.

in PES you can simply setup a match and BEFORE kick off setup your tactics and save and reuse them right their.

in fifa you cant do this, you have to do it out of a match setup.

say for example i play a match with u in fifa against some random team. i now wish to tweak my tactics and formations on the formation screen loaded just before kick off and behold, i cant. i can only choose default tactics/formations. no tweaking allowed,.

Now in PES i CAN create my own tactics and formations and can even save them right then and their.
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PES beats fifa in terms of tactics easily and always has been.
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This bit I agree with.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Changing formations and strategies on the fly is a new system ? WTF ? What game have they been playing,( or not as the case maybe ) for the last few years ? :CONFUSE:

I love the E3 video, looks stunning. I obviously hate the Rainbow Flick, I just hope it's a really difficult skill to pull off. And it should be only available to hand-full of players at most. The animations look alot better overall. Those are just eye-candy for me anyway, it's the gameplay that dictates simulation, not animations. If I want to see amazing animations I'll watch Toy Story 3.

I think the way Konami put huge emphasis on the simulated approach, will always mean that some animations will always look a little rigid in some areas, it's the only way to create the angles and replicate posture. It's also more noticable with players with lesser technique. Fifa doesnt have this concern as it doesnt address posture or balance in regards it's shooting, passing, and first touch variables. Therefore silky smoothness are much easier, as it's one style fits all. Of course EA have a superior Mo-Cap technology, but the lack of the need to implement such diverse and random body postures to recreate real life technique ensures optimum focus on stunning animated visuals. If you understand football and technique, this argument isnt even open for debate.

Very happy so far with what I have seen, roll on October. I have to say the player faces on Fifa are unbelievable, about time to.
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Ignoring that shooting DID require you to be properly balanced already in FIFA, the passing and first touch systems now have attribute-based, context sensitive error. Remember your list of reasons why FIFA wasn't a sim and PES was? I'd already been to EAC and grinned when I saw you basically listing off the changes they were making this year. So you're right, this argument is closed for debate.

I'll second Dusse's question about your view of FIFA's tricks as well - it's getting apparent that your opinion of FIFA is becoming based less and less on reality and more and more on this vision of FIFA you have cultivated in your mind. There are plenty of problems with FIFA, yes, but if you want to play to the gallery with snipes at the other side then there's no need to bullshit when you could use something that's actually true.


Regarding manual passing and power bars - it's simple. It's a move aimed at stopping the game being about two possible passing lanes/rails per player and making it about several more. It's about trying to use your footballing brain to determine exactly HOW to try and pass to a player within each footballer's attribute limits. It's asking you to use more vision in attack, but also more intelligence in defence as you are no longer able to just camp in a potential passing trajectory, or just stand ball-side of the man you are marking as you can do in PES's of late. Instead you have to take into account that anything could happen within the limits of the player passing the ball - much as in a real football match - and so you have to read a much more complex game of football.

It's a big step in the right direction, one which encourages you to actually supply some creativity of your own besides just hitting triangle and letting your midfield maestro do the thinking, or exploiting how awful the reaction times are for both sides despite everyone on the pitch being natural athletes rather than Sunday league footballers still a bit drunk from a night on the lash.
 
romagnoli said:
Do you want to borrow my copy of FIFA? I seem to be able to do this just fine.






This bit I agree with.
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come off your horses you cant create custom formation and tactics on the formation screen before kick off.

they disabled it because people in fifa 09 abused it apparently by putting either 10 in defence or 10 in attack(you can still do that via the long route) And you definetly cant tweek and create custom tactics liek pressuring levels, types of passing etc etc
 
romagnoli said:
Ignoring that shooting DID require you to be properly balanced already in FIFA, the passing and first touch systems now have attribute-based, context sensitive error. Remember your list of reasons why FIFA wasn't a sim and PES was? I'd already been to EAC and grinned when I saw you basically listing off the changes they were making this year. So you're right, this argument is closed for debate.

I'll second Dusse's question about your view of FIFA's tricks as well - it's getting apparent that your opinion of FIFA is becoming based less and less on reality and more and more on this vision of FIFA you have cultivated in your mind. There are plenty of problems with FIFA, yes, but if you want to play to the gallery with snipes at the other side then there's no need to bullshit when you could use something that's actually true.


Regarding manual passing and power bars - it's simple. It's a move aimed at stopping the game being about two possible passing lanes/rails per player and making it about several more. It's about trying to use your footballing brain to determine exactly HOW to try and pass to a player within each footballer's attribute limits. It's asking you to use more vision in attack, but also more intelligence in defence as you are no longer able to just camp in a potential passing trajectory, or just stand ball-side of the man you are marking as you can do in PES's of late. Instead you have to take into account that anything could happen within the limits of the player passing the ball - much as in a real football match - and so you have to read a much more complex game of football.

It's a big step in the right direction, one which encourages you to actually supply some creativity of your own besides just hitting triangle and letting your midfield maestro do the thinking, or exploiting how awful the reaction times are for both sides despite everyone on the pitch being natural athletes rather than Sunday league footballers still a bit drunk from a night on the lash.
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Romagnoli there are very few angles involved in Fifa, that isnt even open to debate. It's lifeless in that regard. And although I do agree with regards the creative element, I'm all for the individual player giving me that option.

The proof will be in the pudding with Fifa 11, I'll try it and see. Personally I dont feel EA will get there, they have given me no reason to believe this will be case. They have had 16 years and not even come close to nailing it yet. It's not there philosophy. They dont understand the feel of football, even though they nail the look. In my humble opinion.

But back on topic, I wish not to digress.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Roman there are very few angles involved in Fifa, that isnt even open to debate. It's lifeless in that regard. And although I do agree with regards the creative element, I'm all for the individual player giving me that option.

The proof will be in the pudding with Fifa 11, I'll try it and see. Personally I dont feel EA will get there, they have given me no reason to believe this will be case. They have had 16 years and not even come close to nailing it yet. It's not there philosophy. They dont understand the feel of football, even though they nail the look. In my humble opinion.

But back on topic, I wish not to digress.
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The team that has been developing FIFA since 07, but particularly 08, has been taking a drastically different approach. So using the whole of the past 16 years will inevitably lead to you being wildly inaccurate, as is currently on display.

As for a lack of passing angles, that's only if you're using fully assisted
controls along with everyone else the football-loving FIFA community hate. If you play with semi controls you realise that you are easily able to get more passing angles than are available in PES. It's why I hope the passing in PES is indeed semi assisted this year, to avoid the robotic straight line QTE game you get from PES and more of the organic weaving game you could get with proper use of the left stick.

It's fun to say things aren't open to debate, but unfortunately saying such things doesn't make them true.
 
New screensot which I think shows the Maracana Stadium

pro-evolution-soccer-2011-20100615031156883.jpg
 
Hmm.. So Fifa 08, 09 and 10 were supposed to give us that football feeling. How come I've still felt nothing but the old Fifa philosophy written all over it? It's the same old game getting pretty dull a week or 2 later. I'm not the only one to feel that as well. It can have all the improvements in the world, but if it can't give us that "football feel" we get from PES then imo it's done nothing.
 
romagnoli said:
The team that has been developing FIFA since 07, but particularly 08, has been taking a drastically different approach. So using the whole of the past 16 years will inevitably lead to you being wildly inaccurate, as is currently on display.

As for a lack of passing angles, that's only if you're using fully assisted
controls along with everyone else the football-loving FIFA community hate. If you play with semi controls you realise that you are easily able to get more passing angles than are available in PES. It's why I hope the passing in PES is indeed semi assisted this year, to avoid the robotic straight line QTE game you get from PES and more of the organic weaving game you could get with proper use of the left stick.

It's fun to say things aren't open to debate, but unfortunately saying such things doesn't make them true.
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Look bud, we both want different things from a football game, I want a simulation first and foremost with no compromise. You dont.
 
PES will be the game for me this year, it has that special feeling again. It means that after a little escapade, i am back to the misses. But i will keep Fifa's phone number by the hand, just in case.
 
_anderson said:
FIFA isn't a simulation. It pretends to be an accurate representation of football, but with the controller on our hands, it isn't.
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Well, it's not perfect but it's certainly closer than PES at the moment. That's not even up to debate (to use this threads common rhetoric).

This years PES seems to fight Football Kingdom for the arcade title though. Looking forward to the demo.
 
Lami: That's why drastically changing your philosophy and your staff can be a double edged sword. I've said several times that EA have essentially been creating a football game from scratch, and now is a particularly difficult time to do so because the demands for complexity are so much higher than creating a football game ten or more years ago. If it wasn't then PES wouldn't have gone down the shitter for the past three years, relying on old-gen tech to keep it's head above water.

Obviously FIFA is still short of perfect in a number of areas, and there will still be flaws in the next few games as there always is in thus genre. However it's hard to argue that, had EA been taking the same stance towards authenticity and depth that they currently do when they started out, the football game that they'd be creating now would be much further along than it is.

Jimmy said:
Look bud, we both want different things from a football game, I want a simulation first and foremost with no compromise. You dont.
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Not very encouraging for a man who writes for a living to have to resort to childish bullshit comments rather than talk sense, is it?
 
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Dusse said:
Well, it's not perfect but it's certainly closer than PES at the moment. That's not even up to debate (to use this threads common rhetoric).

This years PES seems to fight Football Kingdom for the arcade title though. Looking forward to the demo.
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You must be that kind of people that said that PES 5/6 was arcade. Lol.
 
Dusse said:
Well, PES has certainly gone downhill the last couple of years and the E3 trailer looks a lot like Football Kingdom (which is an all out arcade game).
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Why? Because of the passing system? The huds? You have to justify what you say lol. So PES is aiming for arcade and Fifa is a simulation. Heard everything here already.
 
_anderson said:
Why? Because of the passing system? The huds? You have to justify what you say lol. So PES is aiming for arcade and Fifa is a simulation. Heard everything here already.
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I'm not sure really. It was my first thought when I was the gameplay in the trailer.."oh, it's Football Kingdom", the overall feeling just screams that IMO. And no, I don't think that Konami is aiming for an arcade game, I just don't think they know what they're doing. They're all over the place.
 
romagnoli said:
Lami: That's why drastically changing your philosophy and your staff can be a double edged sword. I've said several times that EA have essentially been creating a football game from scratch, and now is a particularly difficult time to do so because the demands for complexity are so much higher than creating a football game ten or more years ago. If it wasn't then PES wouldn't have gone down the shitter for the past three years, relying on old-gen tech to keep it's head above water.

Obviously FIFA is still short of perfect in a number of areas, and there will still be flaws in the next few games as there always is in thus genre. However it's hard to argue that, had EA been taking the same stance towards authenticity and depth that they currently do when they started out, the football game that they'd be creating now would be much further along than it is.


Not very encouraging for a man who writes for a living to have to resort to childish bullshit comments rather than talk sense, is it?
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Come on, you have just lowered yourself there. My statement wasnt meant to be degrogatory, just factual. My case for why previous Fifa incarnations dont sit quite right with the 'simulation tag' are well documented. Hence the reason I dont play it. You on the other hand do play it, and it is your game of choice. Now, re-read my initial statement again, and please advise me where the childish bullshit comment stems ?

In fact dont bother, I cant go through this again.
 
Does it turn anybody else get a littled turned off by the fact that Fifa decided rather than making the gameplay a lot better and adding in individuality they had to come up with a fucking pointless name for it (personality+). It's such a fundamental addition to any sport game that as much as it should have been in for ages anyway it shouldn't have to have a special new name. It is probably made worse in that it's the only thing regarding gameplayer that i have heard about the new game.

It can be a great addition but this takes the gloss off it for me because it makes me realise that it is such an EA marketing thing to do.

I've enjoyed Konami's PR this year, there's been no bullshit terms like that. 'Teamvision' is probably as far they went and it didn't sound as condescending as 'personality+' (there's no need for the + anyway).
 
Northzzz said:
Does it turn anybody else get a littled turned off by the fact that Fifa decided rather than making the gameplay a lot better and adding in individuality they had to come up with a fucking pointless name for it (personality+). It's such a fundamental addition to any sport game that as much as it should have been in for ages anyway it shouldn't have to have a special new name. It is probably made worse in that it's the only thing regarding gameplayer that i have heard about the new game.

It can be a great addition but this takes the gloss off it for me because it makes me realise that it is such an EA marketing thing to do.

I've enjoyed Konami's PR this year, there's been no bullshit terms like that. 'Teamvision' is probably as far they went and it didn't sound as condescending as 'personality+' (there's no need for the + anyway).
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Trust me, for Fifa to have player individuality at the level of PES, and incorporate every single ingredient to justify the 'Simulation' accolade, EA need to re-write the engine from ground up. It isnt going to happen, and those who truly believe it will are living in a dreamworld. Mark my words, and feel free to save this post word for word to ram it back down my throat. I'll be here, waiting, and smiling. ;)
 
everyone needs to calm down cos the fact is both these games need each other to get better it's called compettition but one you guys (quite possibly grown men ) need to realise is that these are only computer games it just amazes me the ammount of arguing that goes on here. i thought this was a mature forum whereby people can discuss mature what they do and don't like please stop embarrasing yourselves and i'm not talking to anyone in particular cos a lot of people do this c'mon guys please.:PRAY:
 
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