PES 2010 360/PS3 Demo Feedback

charlievolano said:
What dif seeting is that one Net?? why the 2 central defenders aren't closing down on Toni?? Well in real life he would be follow as soon as he tried to unmark himself.
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It must be one of the last two, but sometimes i forgot to change it, so maybe its the default one (third). I´ll have to check the names in english...

But you are right, one of the defenders should block that shot...

The goalkeepers are killing me...

YouTube - pes 2010 reina bugs

The first pass, was intended to go to the other lateral, but the game thougt it was funnier to pass it to the keeper... but he didnt want it :(
 
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Played about 7-8 games last night and have mixed impressions.

I play on wide cam so it appeared to me that it looked no different to PES2009, Granted close up tells a different story but it is more how the game will play rather than looks.

I played Germany v Italy on top player first game and scored within about a minute good movement from Klose and great ball inside the defender BUT Schweinstiger 20 yards out i wanted him to thump it and what happened...He slide into the ball and it must have hit his sole but the power in the shot kept it low and hard in off the far post. a good goal but i was more annoyed about the slide shot as there was no need. Noticed the movement slightly but tinkered alot with formations and sliders and found Lahm still wandering out of position. I had to take the defensive line 0 to keep him in check.

Italy scored with a........Keeper blunder.Ball launched forward and Enke came out to the corner flag almost to header it, WHY? defender were there covering. Anyway straight to a Italy player and a equaliser in the last minute :RANT:.

Played some more with Liverpool and Barca and noticed the player movement was very very different. Very loose and free on the ball, players in position obeying commands. To me it seems they may have put all their efforts into Liverpool and Barca in the demo as the other teams seem very generic(even Spain) and play similar. I like a slow build up and hold the ball anyway. Also noticed they seem more free with the analogue stick as opposed to D-pad(strange because the PS3 D-Pad is analogue)

Also seemed alot off long range shots seem to be drilled low along the ground, rarely saw any height don't know what you guys think?

I will play more and tinker more but feel this will offer me more than FIFA10:OOOH:

I 'll still keep the faith this will be refined more for release. But i will get this as my second game this year, The first....





....Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2*


*Sorry EA
 
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ok so i played the demo last night and i wouldn't say that i'm overly impressed but i did enjoy it i do have and issue with some of the passing animations like sometimes when you pass horizontally the ball flies of the side of the players foot when he's cleary kicking forwards and i still see alot of sliding i didnt notice 360 that much but i'llplay some more and see if i notice and i also think it's not as fluid as it can be. it feels like pes5 but is that a good thing on next gen i don't know ' i prefer fifa but that's my own personal preference i might still buy this as like i said i did enjoy it but i did feel slight arcadiness but if i have two games to play this year i'll overlook but in closing i will say that pes 2010 is a step in the right direction and i hope next years version will be something special
 
For those that don't know, my wife runs a mocap studio here in Sweden, I showed her the PES demo last night, and more specifically some of the dribbling up close where you can see lots of weird stuff happening like feet sliding, shuddering, ball moving without being touched by the foot etc. etc. she said that it looks to her that they took the raw mocap data and simply inserted it into the game using some kind of auto-correction process, properly done mocap is cleaned and fine tuned by hand before it's ever used in any final engine state, which is why the animations look so rough in PES and why when you look closely and slow them down there's so many slides/shakes and other errors, whether or not the animations are final remains to be seen.
 
drekkard said:
I played about 13 matches yesterday. Overall, after playing the game, I just don't understand some of the people and comments here.

There's no depth in this game AT ALL. I played in TOP difficulty and began winning on my third match to win all the rest (varying the teams all the time). That's because there is NO DEPTH in the controls. They're easy as hell and I get the feeling that people who likes the game may be usual gamers or people not particularly skilled at it. That could explain why they never "get" or "feel" into other games.

First, the main thing. Since the first minute, I was able to pass like an angel to anyone almost anytime. Most of the time it doesn't event matter if your player is backing the ball or if he has no legs. You press X and a perfect pass is done. No skill needed at all. It's easy as shitting. I can literally pass the ball between my players to no end without even taking into consideration any other factor than pressing X and a vague direction (again, it doesn't matter that much because the CPU will put the ball where it wants to sometimes).

L1+X is as effective as always, completely breaking defenses. From the third match and on I managed to play passing at first touch through the whole pitch until a cross / through ball / shot ended the play, and scored a couple of goals by simply getting into the area passing (without any other button used other than X, note it) and shooting. What depth is there? I don't do anything special, simply point and click X, and the pass is 90% of the times PERFECT, no matter the context, no matter the player, no matter the opponent.

Once I saw how freaking easy it was to pass around (that includes long passes for me) I tried dribbling, that in general's opinion is very hard. I found it as easy as it was in pes 5, pes6, that means I can regularly skin the defender simply by changing direction, do a little feint and sprint. Of course, you can't dribble the entire team, and I feel people thinks it's very hard only because they can't just dribble all the time.

Then shooting. yes, physics are nice most of the times (though I've found there's no swerve, no dip, nothing, the ball uses to go straight), but the problem is still the scriptedness. There's very little relationship between what you do with the pad and the outcome. Many times I shoot to a corner but the player ends up shooting straight to the keeper just to keep scorelines low. Yep, cheatvision is still there. More later.

Then the worse thing: collision detection. How awful it is. It's amateurish at best. I've seen things of all colours, but ashaming if you see them in close view. Balls trespassing bodies, balls getting the opposite rebound to what reality would expect, balls frezzing suddenly in the air until they are kicked, ball changing direction without any contact registered, the list is so long... Not to mention body collisions, that are a joke, I've seen players trespassing each other, or even some instances in which players rebound between themselves and suddenly appear at "the other side" of each other. How amazingly ugly is this? There's a random component into collisions but in a very bad way, you can expect to succeed previewing what will happen if you're guided by what would happen in reality.

AI is terrible terrible terrible. Players that walk away of the ball, players that suddenly walk away of their position by no reason, SIDEBACKS always away from WINGERS (you can't avoid this in any way in this demo, and I'm a tactical bitch)...

And then goalkeepers. They can makes splendid moves and have great reflexes (though it's quite suspicious that no matter which team I choose, my keeper is more prone to error than my opponent...mmmm, must be the excelling teamvision again). But at the same time the ammount of bugs / stupid behaviour is appaling. Half my goals came from stupid defenders suddenly leaving the striker alone in the area (and I mean literally walking away from him), but half the goals came in absurd goalkeeping behaviour.

They have BIG problems trying to catch soft bouncing balls, most of the times they simply walk sideways through the goal line. Sometimes the cpu shot and my keeper was simply walking to the direction of the ball without diving / trying to catch it), Some times a soft shot went under his body when he dived as if the world was ending tomorrow. Simply put there's so much problems to be fixed in one or two months. Impossible. The fantastic saves, though have a terrible feeling of "scriptedness" because in goal scrambles sometimes a spilled ball comes to my striker and when I shoot the ball doesn't go where I point, but to the keeper that is automatically executing the "great save" animation.

Animations look awkward by the same reason of late, the animation engine fails miserably again and again and you can see where an animation starts, ends and "tries" to blend. The quality of the animations themselves varies from great to poor. Feels terribly unfinished (not to the quality level you would expect in a demo anyways).

Finally, reaction times are shit. Period. We all agree. Only a fool would try to defend this.

Even though all this points sound very negative (but I'm not making up anything, you can check all this in the game by yourselves or you can deny reality...), there's many positives.

The pace of the game is better than in pes 2009. It's odd that the "passing" game plays at an incredible speed but the "dribbling" game feels heavy and slow.

Lightning engine is great! A shame it's a football game and lightning doesn't have any impacto on gameplay. The time spent on this could have been put into really important areas, but the result is awesome. Faces are good, but not as impressive as some told. They have a strange bump mapping applied that makes them cardboard-looking and you can see the photos stretched through the mesh. But overall graphics are vastly superior to other football games.

Tactical options are good and can potentially make human vs human enjoyable and a longer experience in time.

I don't understand people who praise this as the perfect simulation of football. It doesn't look like that at all, and most importantly, it's a pick and play product for casual gamers and kids.

Maybe having manual everything in Fifa has had a good effect in my gaming skills, but really I'm not a pes fan and I could win 90% of my games in my first day. I scored free-kicks, volleys, headers, long shots and a LOT of spilled balls to tap in. Where's the fuss of it? Maybe some people like it because it's so easy to play and you don't need to be 100% focused to get the most of it.

I respect it, I mean, not everyone wants to play with complex control layouts, some people simply wants to stay simpler and play for fun. It's great and I do it randomly. Simply I don't lie to myself saying it's a depth football simulation. I used to play COD 2 and had great times with friends when it had only 2 buttons.

Hell, I enjoyed SWOS and was even simpler than current games. And yes, I enjoyed sometimes the demo for what it is, an action-oriented football game to people who wants a pick-n-play experience. Though I'm not sure slow response times will convince this kind of audience.
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EXCELLENT post drekkard. You've put in words what I was thinking about it but couldn't be arsed to type it all up... :)

Again, well said.
 
Placebo said:
For those that don't know, my wife runs a hair studio here in Sweden, I showed her the PES demo last night, and more specifically some of the hairs up close where you can see lots of weird stuff happening like hair moving, shuddering, arm hair moving without being touched by the wind etc. etc. she said that it looks to her that they took the raw mocap data and simply inserted it into the game using some kind of auto-correction process, properly done mocap is cleaned and fine tuned by hand before it's ever used in any final engine state, which is why the animations look so rough in PES and why when you look closely and slow them down there's so many hairs/shakes and other errors, whether or not the animations are final remains to be seen.
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I knew what your hidden message was!!
 
GIANNI said:
After all the comments I read yesterday, I went home and downloaded the Ps3 ver of the game, I had already saw the screenshots of the game, but I was really impressed by the visuals, and its a demo, which its usually less sharp to keep the file small, the lighting, the shadows, the textures are amazing, the first game I played i just passed the game, went on replay and watched the player faces to see and try to believe that what I was seeing is true, cause they are nearly identical to life like players!

Gameplay

Again after all the negative comments I read, i taught that what i was going to play is one of the worst pes ever...... then when the game started i realized that, alot of players, not only on this forum, does not know what they are talking about, and I really doubt myself that they played all the prev pes games as they state, I am not pointing my fingers at anyone, i am just talking in general as a whole. I admit that both pes 08 and 09 where not good games (09 was not that bad, i still play it), especially 08.. and keeping in mind that this is not the final build of the game, I actually think this is the best Pro Evolution Soccer to date.

We all wish to have a football game exactly as we see on tv, but if the animations maybe are not exactly as human motion, i think that the actual game of football is spot on.

passes, perfect.. Shooting, incredible, you really feel the shot. Heading very good. A.I very good, try playing top player (the only thing is that I really would like to have the extra star difficulty as pes 6)

It really feels like a different game, and thats a Pes trademark, somtehing which was lacking in 08 and 09

the 360 movement its there and you can feel it. I realy think that the problem is that many wanted the moon from konami, and if they will not give us the moon, they gave us the best pes to date.

As we have.. pes gameplay and the best graphics ever in a footy game.

we have master leauge with europa leauge and champions leauge.

for me these last 2 are already huge...

now if you guys prefer the other game where yes it has a better collision system, and yes animations, just play the other game np with that its a free world, both games are good, for me fifa is still behind in terms of gameplay but thats a personal taste. as in pes everything seems like different, all goals have a unique feel, something that in fifa is lacking. apart from the graphical issues of fifa like shirts, player num and faces, etc

for me its a day one purchase and well wort the money...

as i think we have the best pes to date
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here here great chuffing post :)
 
Tohelo said:
Here's two pics from this "great" demo.



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fifa1_0.jpg
norm-48c6ca7f2fe8b-Beetlejuice%20(1988).jpeg



?
Even the "great" games have it

There seems to be alot of confusion about the demo, I think this partly stems from not understanding it in context or the point of it.

Sure there are bugs these need to be pointed out and noted so hopefully they can be fixed.

Right on to what a/any demo is trying to achieve.

1. Hype
2. Technical showcase or feature preview
3. Improvements

There are several things to bare in mind with game demos.

1. The are expensive to produce
2. They are limited by Live and PSN
3. They are to provide a taster of the game (hype)
4. They can be engineered to demonstrate specific functionality/game play.

Lets look at each of the above:

1. The are expensive to produce
Demo's are a costly business there are several things that go in to a demo, firstly they have to remove or disable all extended functionality then they have to optimise the size for download and then test it. These all eat in to developers time. Then you have the network costs as I believe Sony charges for this to subsidise PSN but I maybe wrong on that.

2. They are limited by Live and PSN
File size is a big consideration with demo's so lots of stuff gets removed, hi res textures, animations, core engine code etc. Again you get a cut down version of the game.

3. They are to provide a taster of the game (hype)
The demo is there to promote hype to encourage sales. This means that again its engineered in a way to promote the core aspects of the game. In this case its control (360, Skill Dribble, Physical play). This demo showcases all of those. It is not intended to be a full version "quick match" game its a technical and marketing item to show new features.

4. They can be engineered to demonstrate specific functionality/game play.
With the comments above in mind you can now start to see that the demo is engineered to show certain aspects of the game off. This is why the AI is a bit iffy, the keepers playing in weird positions etc. If the keepers werent so badly positioned we wouldnt get to taste the long range goals as much. They will be there but not in the frequency we get in the demo.

Again look at the free kicks they are definately tweaked to be accurate for the demo infact it really does seem that they are being "assisted"......

We can take a pragmatic view and accept the following things:

The demo doesnt contain the full gameplay engine.
The demo is engineered to play a certain way to promote aspects of the game.
The demo doesnt include any extended features or secondary elements like hi resolution textures.
The demo is based on an older build that was working to a suitable degree.
The demo is not a core focus for the development team so will have foilbles.

Bugs should be reported, but we need to be pragmatic and realise the AI will be an improvement on 09 not what we see in the demo same goes for goal keepers and textures.

I just think that people can sometimes lose sight of what the demo is for. Yes there is an element of faith that we have to put in the dev team but if the demo is a taster of what we can expect they have my entire faith!
 
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From the videos I'm watching the shot feint is amazing, all of you who says it isn't in the game are I think wrong because the principle of a feint is to act as if you're taking a shot and then stop.This is the same thing, you have a larger array of feints thanks to this system now
 
I posted this earlier and I'll post it again as I think it's relevant:

I like what I've played of the demo...

My mates who I'll be playing with like what they've played of the demo...

Playing 1 v computer doesn't interest me...

1 player in comparison to 2 human players or better still, 2v2 online lag free is where the game will come alive for me.

If online plays the same as offline, It'll do me...

I don't care for anyone else's opinion.

It's my money that will be spent and my gaming experience that matters.
 
Placebo said:
For those that don't know, my wife runs a hair studio here in Sweden, I showed her the PES demo last night, and more specifically some of the hairs up close where you can see lots of weird stuff happening like hair moving, shuddering, arm hair moving without being touched by the wind etc. etc. she said that it looks to her that they took the raw mocap data and simply inserted it into the game using some kind of auto-correction process, properly done mocap is cleaned and fine tuned by hand before it's ever used in any final engine state, which is why the animations look so rough in PES and why when you look closely and slow them down there's so many hairs/shakes and other errors, whether or not the animations are final remains to be seen.
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?
 
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Tohelo said:
Here's two pics from this "great" demo.



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All games have clipping issues, Fifa has clipping issues, the worst thing for me personally in PES2010 is the messed up physics engine, the ball moving around when not making any contact with the foot or the player, as I mentioned yesterday the AI scored an own goal and the ball moved without touching the player as if there's an invisible forcefield. Fifa09 was really bad for the ball being saved without actually touching the goalkeeper's glove which really annoyed me, example here: YouTube - Fifa09: Cech's Magic Hands looks horrible and of course frustrating if it stops you scoring a goal (as it did in this example for me), fortunately it looks like Fifa10 has eradicated this problem, there will be clipping issues in Fifa10 but that's no surprise, non clipping is IMO an impossibility.


Urban said:
Right on to what a/any demo is trying to achieve.

1. Hype
2. Technical showcase or feature preview
3. Improvements
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To my mind this is 3 areas the PES2010 demo is falling flat on due to (as Adam himself said) such old buggy code being used.
 
Urban said:
Check again in the quote.
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I see it now, oooooookkk........

kouroux said:
Hey Placebo, will that possible to get them megaupload links soon then ?
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Yes of course, will be mirrored on the following:

kiloupload.jpg


Upload to Kiloupload is now done, just waiting for it to process the file and send me the link (then it's just a case of waiting for the mirrors to propagate) :)
 
Placebo said:
I see it now, oooooookkk........



Yes of course, will be mirrored on the following:

kiloupload.jpg


Upload to Kiloupload is now done, just waiting for it to process the file and send me the link (then it's just a case of waiting for the mirrors to propagate) :)
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Ok and then it's burn it the demo on a DVD right ? Sorry I ask many questions but I prefer to be 100% sure and once again thank you for the fast answers
 
Hi all

Gonna give the PES demo a try later on today but from what I've read it doesnt sound good, and it sounds like Konami havent delivered again :(

Is there still that "skating" kind of effect when you press x near a player with the ball, your player seems like he is skidding along to try and get the ball? or did they fix that?

By the way, I doubt Konami will make many changes from what the demo shows, this is Konami we are talking about you know :(
 
about 80% of the goals i have conceded from the computer have been headers. The goal keeper doesn't even attempt to save it. Anyone else experiencing this?
 
bonyi said:
"From WENB:
Re: PES 2010 Demo Impressions

Postby Dopecoil » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:51 am
ps3 version tested

What can i say im still in shock at how finetuned and beautifally crafted pes2010 is on the ps3, for me in my whole 20 years of playing konami football games this is there finest hour and mantra from heaven and will be heralded as a classic in the years to come.

From the perfect response times to the passing and first class crossing that you can now hit from any angle and spot on a players head this is the stuff of dreams.

For those who havent realised the shear unlimited scope of this game good times are ahead and how landmark this game is should not be under estimated.

No doubt about it analog is the only way to go if you want to get the best out of the 360 movement and the new found freedom in passing and crossing and all the benefits this gives,the switch is essential otherwise your only getting a glimpse of this games massive protential.

Im not going to give any negatives because that would be unfair because i feel konami have produced the best football game ever made this year that eclipses anyhting that came before it and on the market today and in time even the most sinnacle pesfan will see its inner beauty and level of refinement and fine tuning that is quite simply sublime and perfectly executed.

Dopecoil

Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:18 pm
"

Is it you SteveM ;)
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WTF!!! Is this from playing the latest review code?

I liked the demo apart from the fact that the keepers can still be dodgy at times. Animations arent the best at times and because of this it can be sluggish and the AI could also be better and more difficult also.

Is this guy saying all this is fixed in his code and will be great in the full version for release?
 
liger05 said:
Not at all. The thread should be like the Fifa one where positive and negative posts are a plenty. Post negative here and its like you have killed someone.
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It's far from like you've killed someone. Tons of people have commented on negative points and it's been perfectly okay. It's only when the morons say 'you should kill yourself if you like this and do us all a favour' or 'this game is shit, fifa rules and you all know it' that someone then argues back.
 
DavidBushell said:
My feedback:

Great game. Great graphics. I have the same 'I've got to learn this game' feeling that I used to get back on PS2. As I predicted and got heckled for the 360 dribbling is there but doesn't mean jack.

I tested Fifa 09 for 4 months before switching back to PES so I am pro-PES but how can anyone seriously enjoy a game that has such clumsy tactics activation - I am assuming that Fifa 10 has the same game-ruining system. I mean forget about the offside trap - by the time you activate it in Fifa the ball is back on the centre circle. You can't even change formations without pausing in Fifa!!

Anyway - each to their own but I just don't get it. PES has nailed it this year. That is of course unless you have OCD, never seen a woman naked and wear 4 pairs of specs (ie you need perfect animations, 360 dribbling, keepers that never ever screw up and ideal ball sounds and new nets).

IF YOU ARE NORMAL AND DRINK BEER & LISTEN TO MUSIC WHILE PLAYING YOU WILL LIKE THIS GAME BECAUSE IT IS FUN.
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Haha I havent posted on here for years but im gonna raise a virtual beer to that last paragraph f*cking brilliant and totally agree
 
PLayed a few more games at lunch time, i kinda have the impression this game might be worse than 2009. And for all its beauty, on a wide cam the two games are identical.

Anyone noticing that the transparent radar seems more invisible than transparent???

Ah and they have manage to put in what it is probably the worst 0_sound ever...feels like two japs singing chants after a few shots of sake.
 
i cant understand why untucked shirts arent seeable on the wide camera....it makes all the players look way too similar...messi dont look like messi when ure playing with him, sucks really.
 
Simcut said:
Is there still that "skating" kind of effect when you press x near a player with the ball, your player seems like he is skidding along to try and get the ball? or did they fix that?
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Yes it's there and worse than I've seen it before in past PES.

kouroux said:
Ok and then it's burn it the demo on a DVD right ? Sorry I ask many questions but I prefer to be 100% sure and once again thank you for the fast answers
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Yep burn the content folder to the root of your DVD.
 
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