PES 2009 General Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA TALK OR POLITICAL CHAT)

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Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

muzza798 said:
Why do most of you bother coming on here to big up Fifa or critisize pes. Im sick to death of the negativity. Why the fuck would i come on here to read about how Fifa is better. Myself and other dont give a flying wank if its better, we just wanna talk about pes. And i do respect that some of you dont like it but its getting a bit boring now listening to everything you find wrong with it. If your gonna slate it then just piss off and go in another thread because its gettin annoying having to filter through your crap trying to find someone who actually wants to talk about its good points.
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Admittedly, several posts don't help matters when they're clearing just bigging up FIFA/slagging off PES, but the vast majority have raised genuine concerns for the title.

On the flip side, the people who seem disappointed with what they've seen of PES2009 so far might find it "boring" that you claim to find absolutely nothing wrong with what you've seen, therefore continually saying how great you believe it to be.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

BwA Spectre said:
It seems like most people who have played and seen videos of Fifa 2009 and PES 2009 think Fifa 2009 is better than PES 2009. Gameplaywise. I have just seen tons of videos from both and you can tell alot by a video. You can tell physics, animations, ball physics. To me it's apparent that Fifa looks as if it plays much better than PES this time around. And IMO, Konami looking back to previous PES's for inspiration says one thing. They are totally lost and have no direction. I'm sorry but if a game maker looks back, it's not a positive thing. It is all too apparent that there's trouble in the PES camp. Whether be production budget, inadequate team, just npot caring because they have won PES players eternal support no matter what they put out, something is not right.

And this whole EA thing. I beg to differ. Traditionally EA has put out very inferior games, imo. I always look at them as the McDonalds of game making. Quantity over quality. This has changed recently. Fifa 07 was abysmal and half finished but it was anew game engine and at least you saw promise. Fifa 08 was miles and miles better than 07. In one year alot was accomplished. And now Fifa 09 looks miles better than 08 so far. Not only gameplaywise but feature wise, innovationwise. Now take alook at NHL 08! If any have played it you will totally agree that it wipes the floor with NHL 2K! That is shocking! Shocking! Why has EA stepped it up? Cause they fear competition? Hell no! No matter how bad EA titles have been, the sports titles, they always manage to outsell the competition. Year after year. So why are they making better games all of a sudden? I'd like to believe because someone or some people at EA have pride in what they do and listen to the community (which they totally do). Either that, or it's just a fluke that they are producing great games. Now, if Dead Space ends up being a smash hit, excellent game then you know EA sold their souls to the devil. Perhaps it's partly due to new leadership at EA as well?

For the first time in years, I am actually very excited about a footy game. I am glad there are 2 major companies making footy games. I think one pushes the other. Eventually Konami will have no choice but to go all out and come up with something big. And I sure hope they read posts like this, on threads like this. It may pain some of you (the ones that will support any PES game regardless of anything, blindly) that we post like this but believe me it may prove to be beneficial in the long run if they ever listen to the community.
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great post dude:COOL:
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

raffupperv12 said:
Fifa can make big strides, but I have played many titles from EA: NCAA, MADDEN, NBA, etc....and they all have one thing in common glitches, AI cheats, and overall feeling that you don't have complete control.
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I am sure as hell you haven't played Fifa 08 in full manual control. If you do this and put effort on mastering the controls, you would write again this line changing Fifa for PES.

Why do a lot of PES fans (I'm still a fan of the series because of its past milestones) ignore the depth of control EA has put into the game? People really prefer to simply press a button and let everything else done by the CPU?

One of the things I am sure of is that if Konami had put manual control to the game (32 direction manual direction and power for passing and shooting) they would automatically have a much better product and I would surely buy it and enjoy it.

But seems to me they have a new audience that prefers much simpler games in terms of control and depth and that's why they sticked to the old formula.

These last 2 years are really impressive in terms of Marketing. How come Konami has won the product placement that the market and media had denied during the early 2000s, and at the same time EA produced a game (and oriented its marketing) for hardcore fans of football and videogaming. How quickly things change, isn't it?
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

drekkard said:
Why do a lot of PES fans (I'm still a fan of the series because of its past milestones) ignore the depth of control EA has put into FIFA08?
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Because it's been nearly a year since FIFA08 came out and there are still loads of die-hard PES players who haven't played it and never will play it, but will go on writing off 'same old FIFA'. They will never acknowledge the massive change of direction that the FIFA franchise has taken because they don't know that it's happened.

All year on various PES forums I've seen people talking at complete cross-purposes when it comes to FIFA08. A few pages ago on this very thread somebody condemned FIFA08, then a few sentences later said they hadn't played any FIFA since FIFA2004! That's what's going on, IMO, and it's not going to end.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Keith Houchen said:
Because it's been nearly a year since FIFA08 came out and there are still loads of die-hard PES players who haven't played it and never will play it, but will go on writing off 'same old FIFA'. They will never acknowledge the massive change of direction that the FIFA franchise has taken because they don't know that it's happened.

All year on various PES forums I've seen people talking at complete cross-purposes when it comes to FIFA08. A few pages ago on this very thread somebody condemned FIFA08, then a few sentences later said they hadn't played any FIFA since FIFA2004! That's what's going on, IMO, and it's not going to end.
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Good post. But in all fairness there are many here who are extremely open to both games. There are even life long PEs fans who have acknowledged Fifa's change in direction. Times are changing. I think the average PES fan is a very well educated person when it comes to games and very critical of their preferred footy title recently. I like the fact that I can post here and not be attacked by the majority of people for not defending PES at all costs.

What really worries me is that, and I say this wholeheartedly, that PES has lost the crown for a very long time, if not, forever. Im just judging on current trend. EA would totally have to give up on Fifa. I mean, at this pace, it will be extremely difficult to catch up to Fifa, IMO. This is where things get good because Konami will have a huge challenge , and for the first time in a long time, they will be the underdogs. I feel that even more people will be making the switch again this year, like last year. And then there are the years ahead. Konami is in for along fight.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I think there's an awful lot of PES players utterly mystified as to why PES forums and threads now feature people claiming to be diehard PES players but who use FIFA (specifically FIFA08) as a reference point for the current PES games. Sacrilege!

I also see a lot of talking at cross-purposes going on in regards to PES2008. I loathed the PS3 version, loved the PS2 version. I often wonder whether those people who pop up from time to time to ask what the problem is with PES2008 are talking about the PS2 version.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Placebo said:
Agree with that completely. PES was an awesome current gen game in its time, easily the best football game by a long margin in that period, so good we spent 100s of hours playing it, editing it, patching it, burning new patched versions at the cost of numerous CD/DVD but we didn't care.

But time moves on, PES it's very easy to see has not moved on, simple fact is after a decade of loyal love and support and fanaticism the fans are not getting what they deserve.

SWOS was an awesome game, had its time and I don't want to play it again, Kick Off was an awesome game, had its time and I don't want to play it again, Player Manager 1/2 was an awesome game, had its time and I don't want to play it again, PES was an awesome game, has it had its time? It seems to me it's getting very close to that point where the only good thing about PES is the memories we hold for it.
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Sorry Placebo but i don't agree with you.You know why?BECAUSE FOR 10 YEARS FIFA PRESENTED NOTHING but now we can see that Fifa is no bad game.Why do you think that Pes will over as Kick off for example? why? because Pes 2008 was bad?(one game on series do you remeber this)or maybe Pes 2009 will bad?? Sorry placebo i don't agree with your thinking.
 
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Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

lons_pl said:
Sorry Placebo but i don't agree with you.You know why?because for 10 years Fifa didn't present nothing but now we can see that Fifa is no bad game.Why do you think that Pes will over as Kick off for example? why? because Pes 2008 was bad?(one game on series do you remeber this)or maybe Pes 2009 maybe will bad?? Sorry placebo i don't agree with yours thinking.
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I don't agree with your spelling but you don't see me complaining.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Keith Houchen said:
I think there's an awful lot of PES players utterly mystified as to why PES forums and threads now feature people claiming to be diehard PES players but who use FIFA (specifically FIFA08) as a reference point for the current PES games. Sacrilege!

I also see a lot of talking at cross-purposes going on in regards to PES2008. I loathed the PS3 version, loved the PS2 version. I often wonder whether those people who pop up from time to time to ask what the problem is with PES2008 are talking about the PS2 version.
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It's almost imposible to talk about PES without mentioning Fifa and vice versa. The only difference now is that Fifa 2009 looks like it set the bar (just from what we have seen and heard, read, of course, and based on 08). Usually there's alot of talk on PES/WE forums every where calling Fifa a game for kids, and an arcady game and Fifa just being shite. Now the tables have turned and some people don't know how to handle it. They are not used to it. A case study in double standards could be made here. How times have changed!
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

BwA Spectre said:
It's almost imposible to talk about PES without mentioning Fifa and vice versa. The only difference now is that Fifa 2009 looks like it set the bar (just from what we have seen and heard, read, of course, and based on 08). Usually there's alot of talk on PES/WE forums every where calling Fifa a game for kids, and an arcady game and Fifa just being shite. Now the tables have turned and some people don't know how to handle it. They are not used to it. A case study in double standards could be made here. How times have changed!
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case study in double standards? even seamonk's penguins played better than fifa 08 :DD
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

lol, you go for it lons.

I don't think placebo's point is based on a single game. PES was the best, by a long way, on the ps2/1. However so far this is going to be the 3rd "nextgen" game and basicly what we now have is pes5 with somewhat HD graphics. It's taken 3 versions to get a half decent nextgen game out that is on par with the ps2 version. They are simply stuck in the wrong era atm. Coupled with the huge, and needed, strides FIFA is making each year the new engine (if the rumour is even true) will be so far off the pace that it could be too late. I mean its taken 3 version of development to get the current engine up to scratch.

Its the same as what happend with the games Placebo mentioned, great for their time but technology improves, and with that most games do. Or new ones come around and innovate and take it to the next level. Konami are just trying to get a half decent "full" nextgen game out. That coupled with Seabass' confesion last year that the development team hadnt really changed since the snes/ps1 days and it gives a lot of us the impression that they won't be able to take the needed step. You only have to look at what EA have invested; 4! years (2 years to build a brand new engine, another year of development for 08 and again another year for 09) and they are a looking like they now have the best game, the money that has accompanied that aswell and the obvious input they have accepted from the community. And this is one of the biggest, richest gaming companies in the world with some of the best talent in the world.

And now compare that to Konami! Konami/PES have a clear history of low budget, low imput and low development. It's quite a challenge for them to totally change the way they have worked the past decade, as it would be at any company.

I think that is the point, or one of, that Placebo is making. Its not just about how good or bad this or the last pes game is/was.
 
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Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

BwA Spectre said:
Case study in something else too:-D
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sorry my english is not that good as you most definitely noticed lol, what you mean exactly? how can you even compare pes 2009 with any other football game if you haven't even played it? what exactly you don't like in pes 2009?
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

shilam0unainai said:
sorry my english is not that good as you most definitely noticed lol, what you mean exactly? how can you even compare pes 2009 with any other football game if you haven't even played it? what exactly you don't like in pes 2009?
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I haven't played either 2009 game. That's the reason why i STRESS :"From what we have seen, heard, read" in all my posts. I never claimed to have played any. But I have played Fifa 2008, PES 2008, UEFA EURO. That coupled with everything that's come out of Leipzig? C'mon now!


Your english is fine mate!
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

TikTikTikTikTik said:
lol, you go for it lons.

I don't think placebo's point is based on a single game. PES was the best, by a long way, on the ps2/1. However so far this is going to be the 3rd "nextgen" game and basicly what we now have is pes5 with somewhat HD graphics. It's taken 3 versions to get a half decent nextgen game out that is on par with the ps2 version. They are simply stuck in the wrong era atm. Coupled with the huge, and needed, strides FIFA is making each year the new engine (if the rumour is even true) will be so far off the pace that it could be too late. I mean its taken 3 version of development to get the current engine up to scratch.

Its the same as what happend with the games Placebo mentioned, great for their time but technology improves, and with that most games do. Or new ones come around and innovate and take it to the next level. Konami are just trying to get a half decent "full" nextgen game out. That coupled with Seabass' confesion last year that the development team hadnt really changed since the snes/ps1 days and it gives a lot of us the impression that they won't be able to take the needed step. You only have to look at what EA have invested; 4! years (2 years to build a brand new engine, another year of development for 08 and again another year for 09) and they are a looking like they now have the best game, the money that has accompanied that aswell and the obvious input they have accepted from the community. And this is one of the biggest, richest gaming companies in the world with some of the best talent in the world.

And now compare that to Konami! Konami/PES have a clear history of low budget, low imput and low development. It's quite a challenge for them to totally change the way they have worked the past decade, as it would be at any company.

I think that is the point, or one of, that Placebo is making. Its not just about how good or bad this or the last pes game is/was.
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Hmmm maybe,maybe its true;))
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

DaWolf said:
The guys at WENB loved the ball physics and I did not... at all!
When you want to change sides with a long ball the ball is in the air for suuuuuch a long time that every time nearby defenders will interruopt you trapping the ball. Ive never felt that the ball physics in PES feel floaty like in Fifa but this time I really did not feel the weight. I mean in 08 the ball was TOO heavy imo but now it feels not heavy at all. Hope the improve on that till the release.
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Well, the ballphysics aren't solely to blame for "floaty" passes etc.

It might just aswell be that the longpassing has been programmed to always give lots of backspin on the ball, which generates alot of lift and stay-up power to the ball in the air. In real life, the range of behavior of the ball in the air is quite wide, depending on power, angle of the strike into the air and the curl.

A better more versatile calculation system would allow more variation in curl and thus the floatiness of the ball. Or they could give us the control of it rather than using an automatic system that could potentially strike a lower ball when we want a higher more floaty, and vice versa.


For example:

Normal slightly faster lower Longpass: B (360)
Higher more floaty longpass: B + R2 (as in PES6).


Or they could give us height control on the analog stick tilt angle.


Even if they give the ball less floatiness by using less backspin, or make the system more random so the trajectories are different all the time, we won't have control over it.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

BwA Spectre said:
I haven't played either 2009 game. That's the reason why i STRESS :"From what we have seen, heard, read" in all my posts. I never claimed to have played any. But I have played Fifa 2008, PES 2008, UEFA EURO. That coupled with everything that's come out of Leipzig? C'mon now!


Your english is fine mate!
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thanks im trying, anw mate what exactly you didn't liked of what you've seen and heard so far in leipzig or from seabass interview-video regarding pes 2009?
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Trance_Allstar said:
Well, the ballphysics aren't solely to blame for "floaty" passes etc.

It might just aswell be that the longpassing has been programmed to always give lots of backspin on the ball, which generates alot of lift and stay-up power to the ball in the air. In real life, the range of behavior of the ball in the air is quite wide, depending on power, angle of the strike into the air and the curl.

A better more versatile calculation system would allow more variation in curl and thus the floatiness of the ball. Or they could give us the control of it rather than using an automatic system that could potentially strike a lower ball when we want a higher more floaty, and vice versa.


For example:

Normal slightly faster lower Longpass: B (360)
Higher more floaty longpass: B + R2 (as in PES6).


Or they could give us height control on the analog stick tilt angle.


Even if they give the ball less floatiness by using less backspin, or make the system more random so the trajectories are different all the time, we won't have control over it.
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Yes this could be a touch of "next-gen" when you do not always have the same long passes but also depending on different attributes like they do with the shooting.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

drekkard said:
I am sure as hell you haven't played Fifa 08 in full manual control. If you do this and put effort on mastering the controls, you would write again this line changing Fifa for PES.

Why do a lot of PES fans (I'm still a fan of the series because of its past milestones) ignore the depth of control EA has put into the game? People really prefer to simply press a button and let everything else done by the CPU?

One of the things I am sure of is that if Konami had put manual control to the game (32 direction manual direction and power for passing and shooting) they would automatically have a much better product and I would surely buy it and enjoy it.

But seems to me they have a new audience that prefers much simpler games in terms of control and depth and that's why they sticked to the old formula.

These last 2 years are really impressive in terms of Marketing. How come Konami has won the product placement that the market and media had denied during the early 2000s, and at the same time EA produced a game (and oriented its marketing) for hardcore fans of football and videogaming. How quickly things change, isn't it?
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I admit I only played the demo for FIFA 08, and I didn't like it...fast forward to early this year, I did try the demo for EURO and I was impressed but when i played the actual game it fell short from the demo (IMO), reasons being; the unresponsiveness in certain situations, not being able to defend well, every player looked more or less the same, the weight of the ball, the look (which for me looks more like I'm watching a movie than playing a football match), etc...Now I don't have my blinders on so tight that I won't give FIFA 09 a chance, but from past experiences I've always felt something missing from every FIFA title till now.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

BwA Spectre said:
Good post. But in all fairness there are many here who are extremely open to both games. There are even life long PEs fans who have acknowledged Fifa's change in direction. Times are changing. I think the average PES fan is a very well educated person when it comes to games and very critical of their preferred footy title recently. I like the fact that I can post here and not be attacked by the majority of people for not defending PES at all costs.
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Thats me! Even with fifa better since last year (IMO) ill never stop play pes. Ill keep playing both games, cause im love futebol!!! My question is: Wich one i ll play more? So far, fifa 09.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

raffupperv12 said:
...Now I don't have my blinders on so tight that I won't give FIFA 09 a chance, but from past experiences I've always felt something missing from every FIFA title till now.
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Same experience here. But I will give it another go. This could be their year.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Playing Fifa is like being a die hard Liverpool fan and thinking Man Utd are a great team with great character and have the best fans in the World. It just doesnt work. You either love pes or Fifa. There isnt a middle ground.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Are my infos correct ? Online is only 2vs2 and be a legend online ONLY vs CPU ? Be a legend online max 4 players vs CPU ? Is that right ?
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

muzza798 said:
Playing Fifa is like being a die hard Liverpool fan and thinking Man Utd are a great team with great character and have the best fans in the World. It just doesnt work. You either love pes or Fifa. There isnt a middle ground.
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They're just video games, not football teams :LOL:.

You don't have to stick with a football game through thick and thin, through it's ups and downs like you do with a real football club.

I am a glory hunter in the sense that I support whichever game is winning (the best) :DD.
 
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