Manchester City Thread

Very, very good post beachryan.
All things considered most teams, players, managers have no reason so whatsoever to complain about refs and their decisions because nowadays almost all of them go very far to cheat the refs, no wonder refs make mistakes...

And yes deep down referee mistakes and all the contorversy around it is an essential part of football. So we are all a litle bit hypocritical if we complain about refs...perfect referee decisions would be boring.

Refs are also a mean to delude yourself: Genk lost 5-0 against Chelsea and 7-0 against Valencia. Yet early on in both matches one could argue that they were diasadvantaged (Cech could have been sent off for hands and Genk could have had a penalty in Valencia). Would this have changed something, i'm pretty sure that it would have made no difference, but one likes to think it made a difference...so despite the fact that the team played horrible, the ref takes a bit of the blame even when the difference between two teams is huge...

I also agree that refs should be payed more.

And lastly: if a striker misses seven sitters and afterwards the ref does not see a penalty, who is to blame for the fact that this team does not score...IMO it is the striker and not the ref. 99% percent of the fans (including me) will say, the ref is to blame...of course it's the striker...if he scores one or more of the sitters the refs error is totally irrelevant.
 
I definately think that refs mostly subconsciously let the media and their current/previous thoughts and views on clubs influence them. It is human nature and everybody has a way they act etc on knowledge they have seen, been told etc and let it influence them in whatever they do.

you see it in every game, decisions that players get against them, or away with. My Arsenal point was to show how the media can effect the way the ref acts, there is no way that refs were not influenced by that and we saw teams go for most of the game before they would get a card. Certain players not getting fouls because they are known divers etc etc

The best way would be to get foreign refs in to officiate games and or get technology involved.

More money needs to be put into that side of things though your right Ryan and you should see a big improvement.

They are humans that do a very tough job, I would only expect a robot not to let past experiences, media stories etc not effect the way they go about things.
 
BobbyBox said:
I definately think that refs mostly subconsciously let the media and their current/previous thoughts and views on clubs influence them. It is human nature and everybody has a way they act etc on knowledge they have seen, been told etc and let it influence them in whatever they do.

you see it in every game, decisions that players get against them, or away with. My Arsenal point was to show how the media can effect the way the ref acts, there is no way that refs were not influenced by that and we saw teams go for most of the game before they would get a card. Certain players not getting fouls because they are known divers etc etc

The best way would be to get foreign refs in to officiate games and or get technology involved.

More money needs to be put into that side of things though your right Ryan and you should see a big improvement.

They are humans that do a very tough job, I would only expect a robot not to let past experiences, media stories etc not effect the way they go about things.
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that`s much better I say let the old dogs keep technology away for NOW, and bring in foreign refs... It wont make everyone happy it will be like Europe league!
 
I don't buy the whole thing about EPL refs having tougher jobs than other top leagues either. And the Bundesliga pace and Ligue 1 as well is just as high. Spanish and Italian CAN be at times slower-paced and more tactical/technical but that brings its own challenges especially when on average, Spanish/Italian players are much bigger divers than their English counterparts.

I think the salary point is KEY! As is the training of the referees and the accountability they're held under.

If refs in Serie A and Bundesliga aren't getting paid more than these English refs, they should be! :LOL: Because on average, throughout the course of the season, they do a much better job and get far less decisions (and at least key ones) wrong.

I think the English FA should be looking at what training the likes of Germany and Italy have for their referees and implement some and then RAISE the salaries! It's gotta be a more lucrative and 'higher-position' job where there is a lot of pride and prestige attached to being an EPL referee. Rather than people making fun of you for it and giving no respect which few referees get in England except maybe Howard Webb who is a little more internationally known and even he is hardly anything to shout about.

In Bundesliga, I only know of one referee as bad as the English ones and that's the Iranian-German Babak Rafati who recently tried to take his own life and is apparently suffering from depression. In Serie A, I'm consistently impressed by the amount of close but correct decisions the ref makes (As we get to see in replays in slow motion and his decision gets confirmed!) every time I watch a game.

One thing's for sure, this whole pace of the game thing is a cliche and an excuse, if anybody watches Bundesliga, Serie A and EPL regularly, one thing becomes clear very quickly! And that is that the difference in quality of the players is nowhere near as much as the difference in QUALITY of officiating between the referees!

I've never been one to blame refs much but I think now EPL ones clearly deserve it and need to be held accountable. Half a season has passed and I've never seen SO MANY INCORRECT decisions half way through the season as I've witnessed in any other year of my life! Almost every other match has had a BIG talking point and a big incorrect decision which has changed results/points and therefore the table! The EPL refs at this point have already gotten more decisions wrong than they had at the END of some other seasons I feel. They've done an atrocious job thus far and for once need to be held accountable and measures need to be taken! English FA needs to something! The quality of officiating in this country isn't getting any better but worse each passing day it seems!
 
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I almost completely disagree with that last post of PLF (who i respect for his football knowledge and as a person).

Sina my friend,

In the last paragraph, you talk about the amount of referee errors. But what is a referee error. All this discussion started about Kompany's red card. This can never be a referee error since so many people disagree about the fact that it is or is not a red card. Most of the times it's all about interpretation and we have the benefit of hindsight and 48 replays in slow motion and with CPU programmes that can evaluate if THAT ball crossed the line or not in 1966...

If English refs are the worst refs (and i doubt that), then there must be a reason...although i recognize that refs should be paid more, that cannot be the reason ...
 
I wasn't talking about the Kompany red card, Gerd. In fact I think that WAS a red-card.

I was talking about all the other occasions the referees have made mistakes this season. And what do I mean by these mistakes/errors? I mean exactly what you said about hindsight. :) Where the replay then gets shown and from 4-5 different angles, we can clearly see the foul was committed OUTSIDE the penalty area for example but the ref WRONGLY pointed to the spot. Or when the ball took a deflection and went out of touchline for what SHOULD clearly be a Corner kick but he's instead given a goal-kick and killed the opposition's attack.

Obviously there are decisions that are much more in the grey-area and not so black and white and those will spark up debates but that's fine. When I say referee ERRORS I mean those clear mistakes like mentioned above which is happening more and more it seems in England. There are numerous wrong decisions being given in each EPL match I watch but maybe 1 or 2 in every Serie A. Is there a reason? I believe yes. BETTER referees. HIGHER quality in judgement and awareness and being at the right place at the right time (close to plays, better communication perhaps with lines-men which all ultimately lead to better decision-making).
 
I know you weren't talking about Kompany's red card, i only used it as an example. To me it wasn't an obvious red card, but one could certainly argue about it being a justifiable red card (or not).
The examples of an error you are giving are about not having seen something and yes, that could be due to their eyes (but we don't believe that, do we?) or because the positioning of English refs and linesmen is not good enough and that is something that should get noticed and could be trained...to me it's seems too simple an explanation. But maybe you have other plausible explanations...(oh, and i don't mean this sarcastic).
 
beachryan said:
Howard Webb is a self professed Liverpool fan, so that’s proof to me ;)
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Is he? Or are you going by that video of him singing YNWA?

A friend of mine was saying he's a definite Scouser because of this. I just told him I've sung about drugs (not medication incase any smartass pipes up) in the past but I have NEVER taken one in my life so it means nothing.

I'm also bored of everyone saying he's a United fan too tbh. Too many people talk too much shit for my liking.

Anyway... hope it's a good game tonight and Liverpool are still in it so the game at Anfield means something.
 
Best way to solve the refereeing issues would be to never employ the following to set foot on a football pitch with a whistle again.

Chris Foy
Peter Walton
Mark Clattenberg
Stewart Atwell

And worst of all, Martin Atkinson.

Think you'd find the standard of refereeing would go up quite considerably without those lot :P
 
gerd said:
I know you weren't talking about Kompany's red card, i only used it as an example. To me it wasn't an obvious red card, but one could certainly argue about it being a justifiable red card (or not).
The examples of an error you are giving are about not having seen something and yes, that could be due to their eyes (but we don't believe that, do we?) or because the positioning of English refs and linesmen is not good enough and that is something that should get noticed and could be trained...to me it's seems too simple an explanation. But maybe you have other plausible explanations...(oh, and i don't mean this sarcastic).
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No I'm not saying their eye-sight is bad. :P :LOL:

But I don't have to explain why THEY (who are getting PAID to make sure the game plays fairly and as many correct decisions as possible are getting made) are getting so many wrong. I don't know why. Is it bad positioning? Bad communication? Just poor judgement or lack of balls? Pressure of fans getting to them? player protests? Or simply poor decision making? Maybe lack of authoritativeness? I don't know. But it doesn't matter.

Bottom line is, the replays clearly indicate MANY clear-cut decisions (let's not even talk about debatable ones) are going the WRONG way in EPL and that is a problem! And it's a problem for these referees and the FA to deal with. The rest of us can just sit back and watch their incompetency but similarly see the same cameras and replays CONFIRM the Referees' CORRECT decisions in places like Serie A and Bundesliga where the standard and quality of officiating is much higher.

Like I said, I see a Serie A ref make maybe 2 wrong calls throughout the 90 mins and sometimes am really impressed by how he made the RIGHT decision in a split-second which initially LOOKED a foul for example but then through several replays and different angles, it becomes clear the player had dived and ref had CORRECTLY not given it. They impress me quite a bit. But on average, I see at least 5 BLATANT wrong decisions given by each EPL ref in any given match. Doesn't even matter who you pick. They're all quite bad, some just worse than others!

Makes me wonder actually, are the referees in The Championship (2nd division and below) actually that bad that these guys we see in EPL are cream of the crop this country has to offer?! Surely some of them can't be any worse and are maybe due for a promotion! :P
 
And just to make our discussion look mock-able - FIFA have upgraded both Clattenberg and Atkinson (throws up) to 'elite' referee status.
 
Clattenberg is probably the best of the worst for me lol.

And what does that mean? Does that mean like Howard Webb they're going to actually ref International competitions now?! Oh NO!!
 
That's all City will cry about, I'd be worried as they're probably the most expensive pub team ever, so many average players it's unreal. Minus a few players they'd struggle in the Championship.

Where the fuck did they find Savic, if Mancini bought him it's even more reason to punt him before their season falls apart.


FD
 
Mancini told Gerrard " I say what I want" don`t like players confronting the boss of opposing team. It`s like my son`s friend confronting me on matters that don`t concern them.


Funny though how Rooney used his 2 fingers n Mancini used his 2 fingers :LOL: one to question ref the other to question ref ?
 
Given the Tevez thing coupled with Balotelli's stamp ban, do we think City are going to go forward shopping this window? Any targets/ rumours?
 
they have no injuries and they dont face anyone above 6th . They have more than enough to get the business once kompany comes back stability at the back will sussed . Face it ! they will have to really bottle it to lose it. Only Arsenal were known to have 10pts lead by February and come March were sitting 3rd :COAT:
 
I tend to agree. If United weren't so broken, I'd have some faith, but City have had virtually no injuries this entire season (just checked the physio room thing - United have 12 injured first team players (!) City have 0)

Credit to the medical staff at City I guess.
 
When Clichy n Nasri went to City they were shocked to see their training consist of full body contact tackles, where at Arsenal nothing of the sort.
 
Agree with that. I still remember Aliadiere having his ban extended for the ridiculous 'slap' on Reina (I think?) a few years back - where he did nothing wrong, got sent off - appealed and got an extra match.
 
bebo said:
they have no injuries and they dont face anyone above 6th . They have more than enough to get the business once kompany comes back stability at the back will sussed . Face it ! they will have to really bottle it to lose it. Only Arsenal were known to have 10pts lead by February and come March were sitting 3rd :COAT:
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Oh yeah? Looking at last night, as long as you have Lescott, Milner, Barry, Clichy and Dzeko in the team, they'll struggle to hold onto top spot. Even Nasri has been mince for them. They miss Yaya Toure big time though, say all you want about Silva, but Toure is head and shoulders above him, totally dictates games.

Jose Mourinho is a cert for the job in the summer.


FD
 
fd1972uk said:
Jose Mourinho is a cert for the job in the summer.
FD
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Think he'd screw his chances to be the big man at OT to manage City for a year or two? I don't deny that City will approach him if he leaves Madrid - of course they will and they'll offer the most money - but he has always been the man to take over when Fergie leaves. What could feed his giant ego more than that?
 
Beating Ferguson with the litle club of the city.
Mourinho sees football in terms of one manager against another (as opposed to one team of players against another team of players).
Beating the best manager ever makes him the best manager ever (in his logic).

It would be a shame to see Mourinho with one of the Manchester teams they are too god to play Mourinho's sterile football...

Basically he still plays like with Porto (an underdog team with future stars) even with starstuddes teams...
 
fd1972uk said:
Oh yeah? Looking at last night, as long as you have Lescott, Milner, Barry, Clichy and Dzeko in the team, they'll struggle to hold onto top spot. Even Nasri has been mince for them. They miss Yaya Toure big time though, say all you want about Silva, but Toure is head and shoulders above him, totally dictates games.

Jose Mourinho is a cert for the job in the summer.


FD
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Yes ! Silva is fading away and Toure is the back bone in the middle n Kompany at back. I wouldn`t mind City winning they do play clever and having a new team at top is inviting. well, tbh if Arsenal don`t win I don`t care who wins the league.
 
gerd said:
Beating Ferguson with the litle club of the city.
Mourinho sees football in terms of one manager against another (as opposed to one team of players against another team of players).
Beating the best manager ever makes him the best manager ever (in his logic).

It would be a shame to see Mourinho with one of the Manchester teams they are too god to play Mourinho's sterile football...

Basically he still plays like with Porto (an underdog team with future stars) even with starstuddes teams...
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He did thrash Fergie pretty thoroughly with Chelsea for 2 years (and won with Porto once, but that a was a travesty of officialdom rather than any great achievement). I think he might like to get away from the 'give Mourinho the best team and he'll win' thing. What could be more tempting than taking a fading giant, filled with potentially solid young players and turning it into a dominant force again?

(fears the answer is double the salary at City)
 
I do agree that Jose seemed that he had the thing for Man Utd, but Fergie isn't for giving it up anytime soon and think JM won't wait that long.

Have to admit though, in terms of Jose Mourinho's tactics, whilst I don't like some of the antics into their style of play, I have to disagree about how he wins ugly, Porto (and I hate to say it after the UEFA Cup Final against Celtic) had excellent players in it and Real Madrid whilst having a nasty streak are a joy to watch at times with the likes of Kaka, Benzema, Higuain, Di Maria, Ronaldo, Marcello and Ozil.


FD
 
beachryan said:
I tend to agree. If United weren't so broken, I'd have some faith, but City have had virtually no injuries this entire season (just checked the physio room thing - United have 12 injured first team players (!) City have 0)

Credit to the medical staff at City I guess.
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They might have 12 players injured but first XI players? Really?? You said first team players admittedly but quite a few of them are subs / squad players and it's not as if they really miss all of them. Some kid goes on and on about the same thing in another forum but it just doesn't wash with me. From the list he gave a week or so ago, half the players were shit and hardly get a game anyway. Out of the list (I haven't seen the one you are on about), how many players would you really miss out of the 12? There are some good ones missing that I can think of off the top of my head but not buying this number 12 as some are there to just make up the numbers.
 
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