Manchester City Thread

Mario-Balotelli-007.jpg


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/24/mario-balotelli-face-of-fireworks-safety
 
beachryan said:
Hehe, I love that we just got thumped by City 6-1 and there's not a single post in the City thread.

British power shift indeed.
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Choose from the usual reasons:

1) We were at the match.
2) We have better things to do immediately post-match than post on Evo-web
3) Far, far too pissed to use a computer.
3) All of the above.
 
Does anyone know if City have some kind of deal with ESPN in the US? Not only is virtually every City match on tv here, but during halftime of the Liverpool/ City match ESPN basically just did a promotional video for City TV, and then proceded to extol the virtues of how City have improved the community, and that perhaps City's spending shouldn't be a focus.

I await with bated breath for ESPN to do similar with Liverpool TV, Chelsea TV and MUTV later in the season..
 
Words fail me: from the mouth of Roberto Mancini:

"For Sunday, we have 17 players and I don't think we will fill the bench," he said... We are losing two players for a month and if we lose another we are going to need more players."

Poor Mancini has to field 6 players from (excluding defense and GK, which are fine):

De Jong - 16m
Milner - 26m
Nasri - 22m
Silva - 25m
Johnson - 7m
Barry - 12m
Hargreaves - Free
Dzeko - 27m
Balotelli - 25m
Aguero - 38m

Ignoring, of course, that like other teams with injuries he might have to play his 17m left sided defender Kolarov a bit further forward, or his 7m left sided defender Zabaleta a bit further forward, or his 7m left sided defender Clichy a bit further forward. Or maybe move Kompany into midfield and player 9m Savic alongside 24m Lescott?

I'm sure you get the point.
 
Barry is banned due to the red card vs Liverpool and Hargreaves isn't fully match fit, Nasri has the flu and so is less than 50-50. If you're going to make a list like that you could at least get it right.

Also Balotelli is 50-50.
 
You missed my point which was that its a joke to me that Mancini could possibly be asking for more players, irrespective of the fa cup
 
beachryan said:
You missed my point which was that its a joke to me that Mancini could possibly be asking for more players, irrespective of the fa cup
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i got it and agree, City used to have or still have one of best youth academy´s in the country.. i often smile about Mancini´s words..
 
I think you may have won the league today. I know, sounds like a bold prediction, but City gave a strong impression this afternoon. The soul of this team, the warrior attitude and the union between players and fans was something special. That spirit could be a boost for the rest of the season.
 
Any thoughts about Kompany's sending off, looked harsh to me...but on the other hand this was a potential dangerous tackle...
 
Thought it may have been harsh, but an identical tackle to that ended our promising young Brazilian possebons career a few seasons ago. Ref is just doing what they've been told.
 
The_Special_One said:
I think you may have won the league today. I know, sounds like a bold prediction, but City gave a strong impression this afternoon. The soul of this team, the warrior attitude and the union between players and fans was something special. That spirit could be a boost for the rest of the season.
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I think ppl might be reading too much like for example city at OT vs 10 men 1-6 result. Where at City with 10 men 2-3 result. On any given day anything can happen. Still another half of the season to go ,anything can happen whether City becomes weaker IF toure brothers come back w/ Malaria... Not playing FA games don`t mean resting will guarantee, if things are not going well. City should of drop points from Pools match but they didnt after 48 hrs of rest.


Mutd are not the same team from a year ago and refs are doing what they done all season...making mistakes some harsh ones , some even worst , when trying to make up for it! England has the worst refs on the planet either too quick to call or their counter partners on the sidelines have their thumb up their arse.
Fair to say each team had their harsh calls , that in itself makes sense today it`s us tomorrow it`s you.
 
Yeah, on the league I do think City will easily still win it. Despite Mancini's moaning, his squad has more talent in it than any other - plus their schedule is easier in the second half of the season than the first (in terms of home games).

Losing Kompany for 4 games will be a blow, but 2 will be Carling Cup so shouldn't matter too much.

@ Bebo - Agree on refs. Great example when Foy didn't give the penalty for Valencia at 3-1: clear as day but you could tell he wouldn't be given because he felt pressure having given one already/ sent a City player off.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
I pretty much agree with what Graham Poll said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ending-Graham-Poll-verdict.html#ixzz1iukF06mk

He's an ex-ref and it's fairly unusual that he's saying Foy had a bad game, normally ref's (even ex-refs) are reluctant to criticise other refs.
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Seriously? Ex-refs are reluctant to criticise other refs...yet Graham Poll has a weekly column in a UK paper where he does that. Every single week.

If that had been Scholes doing an identical tackle on Silva, I can almost guarantee no one would have problem with it...
 
Kompany reached the ball before Nani even laid a foot on that pass and from another angle, Kompany's right leg doesn't seem to dive studs up. Very harsh red.
 
beachryan said:
Seriously? Ex-refs are reluctant to criticise other refs...yet Graham Poll has a weekly column in a UK paper where he does that. Every single week.

If that had been Scholes doing an identical tackle on Silva, I can almost guarantee no one would have problem with it...
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He doesnt do that "every single week" maybe you only read the Daily Mail once per month, but to say Poll criticises other refs every single week is a massive overstatment which simply isnt true. Over the last few months he's agreed with many of the major decisions (Spearing red, Barry red, Torres red, Rooney red vs Montenegro) the errors he's pointed out have mainly been the obvious ones (eg Hutton on Long, Gervinho on Barton, Kompany / Cahill incident). All the pundits, Reid, Southgate and even Roy Keane said it was a harsh decision and it seems most neutrals (Gerd, Zeem, me) also think it was harsh.

The big foreign papers have also picked up on it, Gazetta said it was, "forse affrettata" which means "too hasty" and that City "hanno di che recriminare" which basically means they "have a valid complaint". Kicker (faily famous German magazine) put it more bluntly, "Erst profitierten die Red Devils heftig von einer krassen Fehlentscheidung", which means roughly that, it was a big benefit to the "Red Devils" (Man U) and glaringly bad decision.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...zittert-sich-in-ueberzahl-zum-derby-sieg.html

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio_Ester...-super-rooney-derby-united-804234497655.shtml
 
City loosing Kompany for 4 games is a bit of a blow, IMO he is their most important player, the only one they can't afford to miss.
I know Silva is the genius of the team, but Kompany is the lock.

This sending off proves that Kompany hasn't got the status of (for example) Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Rio Ferdinand...each of them would certainly have got a away with it.

Kompany got a straight red and Rooney got absolutely nothing for his assault against the Wigan player last season (that was one of the most outrageous referee errors i've ever witnessed).

But to be entirely fair, the red card may have been harsh but aren't we in a grey zone. The ref should decide on the spot what is a potentially dangerous tackle...that is almost impossible to do in a split second without being impulsive...

So i don't agree that England has the worst refs. The premier league has the best players in the world (together with La Liga) and the football is played at high speed...add to that the fact that players are constantly diving and that managers and media are applying huge pressure on the referees. Those referees have to take more crucial decisions in one match than most of us in a life time.

What should happen now is that a board of experts (with former refs but also with former players) should take a look at the images and eventually change the decision. Of course this has influenced the match and cannot be undone, but one could try to limit the damage.

FIFA, UEFA and FA should also communicate more about controversial decisions. It could well be that Kompany's red card is entirely justified, why not give refs the chance to issue an explanation about their decision?
 
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Having seen it a few more times I definitely understand both sides. I've seen ex-refs argue both ways too. There are a few red herrings thrown in - it doesn't matter if he played the ball/ broke Nani into two - but I'm surprised it was a red, on hindsight.

What will now be interesting will be the FA. They almost never overturn these things unless it's ridiculous (see the Rodwell red). But, there's been so much media attention and that tends to be the only thing that the FA are consistent with - if enough papers talk about it, they'll do something.

As for refereeing, I just find it very frustrating. There were 2 far worse calls in the match (the two penalties, one each) that were soooo clear, and yet not given. Plus I don't think there was a foul in the first Kolarov goal, and there was also an incorrect offside against City at some stage.

The problem is that in any match an official has, what, 25-40 decisions to make? And at present they are screwing up at least 10% of them. And they obviously have big repercussions.

There are so many easy, simple steps that could be done to improve, but as long as FIFA/ UEFA have the stalwarts in charge, nothing will change.
 
gerd said:
So i don't agree that England has the worst refs. The premier league has the best players in the world (together with La Liga) and the football is played at high speed...add to that the fact that players are constantly diving and that managers and media are applying huge pressure on the referees. Those referees have to take more crucial decisions in one match than most of us in a life time.
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sorry my friend, but i can't quite agree on anything there. from what i saw over the last 17 years, english refs are by far the worst of all the top leagues refs (although i do like the english refereeing style, but that's a completely different thing).
i also don't think the premier league has the best players in the world...(absolutely no way!), besides i can't really see what would that have to do with refereeing.
i certainly don't think the english game is played at higher speed than german, spanish, italian or french football (the "higher pace" thing has always being a very common clichè about english football, but it's actually ridiculously false).
i also don't find english players being more of a divers than other players (quite the opposite infact, i believe english players tend to recurr to diving slightly less often than their continental colleagues).
and i certainly don't think english coaches and media put more pressure on referees than, say italian and spanish coaches and media. again, it's the exact opposite; when it comes to mediatic pressure on the referees england is HEAVEN, compared to italy or spain.
Gerd said:
What should happen now is that a board of experts (with former refs but also with former players) should take a look at the images and eventually change the decision. Of course this has influenced the match and cannot be undone, but one could try to limit the damage.
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u see, some people think that would be a good idea... that it might actually decrease the impact of wrong ref's calls on the game.... that it would be a way to limit the damage (like u said).
but some other people (and i am one of those) believe this would completely destroy the game. that it would irreparably compromise the (already weak) reputation of national football federations, that it would raise (enournmously) the interest of criminal organizations over the football industry (as if that interest weren't already serious enough)....that it would turn our leagues into a laughable joke (as credible as the elections in russia), and that it would hugely increase the ammount of heated arguments and controversies about fouls and questionable calls (wich is the exact opposite or what your purpose would be, i guess).

i respect your opinion on this Gerd, but i pray the powers to be won't ever take approve such a change in the game, as that would most likely mark the end of the game itself....... and lucky us, that doesn't seem to be the case thus far.

refereeing is not football's major issue Gerd. football fans are football's real problem. we don't need technology, we don't need a board of grey eminences effecting the outcome of football matches (and making the matches themselves.... and referees completely irrilevant and useless).... what we need is a higher class of fans.... fans who understand what sport is about... people who don't just watch football, but who also play it every once in a while. more educated fans, with better culture and fair play. fans who can actually appreciate the game for its purity and simplicity and realise how important it is for the game not to change its nature.... people who can actually respect the game enough to accept the referee's wrong calls as much as they accept their favourite players mistakes.
u might thing that's utopic but look at rugby fans.... look at tennis fans.... are those people not humans? are they genetically different from the average football fan? then why can't we be a little more like them?

concerning that specific foul, just by looking at that pic northstandhero posted, it looks like a straight red (for the very reasons northstandhero pointed out), but i haven't seen the match (nor the highlights) and it would be imnpossible to judge a foul from a single gif. would anyone post a video with different angles? :))
 
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Good post Ben.
Of course you are right that football fans are the problem. But to be honest i do think it is utopic expecting a higher class of football fans. Football has massive support compared to rugby and even tennis.
Another difference with rugby is that for some reason football (especially football) incites some form of very basic tribalism. It would be interesting if researchers did some study around this subject, why football and not (or much less) other sports. I know football is about passion, but i simply cannot understand why as a Spurs fan, i can't love Arsenal (and most Arsenal fans on evo web must see me as some sort of mild lunatic whereas Spurs fans will see me as a traitor).

In the first part of your (very good) post you completely disagree with me. There is nothing wrong with that, you make some very good points. I agree with you on the fact that a board of experts makes football very vulnerabele to organized crime and therefore maybe is not the best idea.

I think you have an idealized view of the legendary Brittish fair-play. I remember that in the 80's my compatriot Claesen played for Spurs and that he once tried to force a penalty by diving. The outrage was widespread and his dive made headlines in the papers (the only he ever made if i remember well). Here on evo-web i also see that English people are outraged if (other team's) players dive. But i see more and more players effectively dive in English football.

As for the pace: i may be wrong but i have the distinct impression that English football is pacier than Spanish and Italian football. German might be as pacy as English football, but maybe this is all just an impression...

I also agree that the pressure from the media might be higher in other countries (certainly in Italy were there is a television program about refs' performances and decisions, and at first sight this does not seem the sort of program i want to see, but maybe that is what we need, a forum where refs can explain their decisions, because it's well known that players and coaches don't have a clue about the rules of football).

The only argument i simply refuse to take in consideration is when yo usay that English refs are worse than others...I think most people seriously underestimate the task of a referee...

About Kompany's tackle: his tackle was potentially dangerous and it is a good thing for everybody that refs give red cards for that sort of tackle...(except for Belgian players of course :COOL:). I never blamed the ref for the red card.

The only thing i ask myself (and perhaps this is something English refs tend to do more than other refs) is if Kompany would have been a more accomplished player (let's say the Kompany who would still play for a big English team in 5 years time), he would have got that card. Or in other words: if Ferdinand, Rooney, Lampard (he did recently), Gerrard or Terry would have done the same tackle, they would have been sent off. I'm tempted to say no... The EPL is the international league i watch most and i have the distinct impression that big clubs or big players can come away easier but that sort of things...
 
Well i never put worst referring due to decision of a players influence like gerrard, rooney,etc. Nevermind they're the most heavy set of the lot tells me Englands game cant be the fastest more reckless i say. I dont like refs cracking jokes n laughing i get their human beings but i want them to represent authority not their character.

LIKE I SAID THEIR MISTAKES AREN'T JUST from 1 club its nearly every team like if the system is broken.maybe there force video technology, but that is more for goal line purpose not for a free kick. Not even NFL get to replay every decision. If we all want we can come up with blantant calls like onside goals or a pen that wasnt . REFS MAKE MISTAKES BUT GAME CHANGER MORE THAN SUSPECT REALLY...SOME REFS can not MAKE A RIGHT DECISION EVEN WHEN ITS A YARD APART ,fatigue maybe?! I like how la liga refs act like they represent the law of the town...only english get that way when they lose control..professionalism starts n ends with the blowing of the whistle.
 
I personally think that refs in England are biased and do not judge games well enough and are not consistant. I have never known a time when there have been so many mistakes from a number of different refs.

If you are a male interested in football and were born in Britain then you will support a team and have teams that you hate, prefer, respect etc based on where you were brought up.

This is where I think refs need to make as little decisions as possible and let computers and an official with camera evidence make more of the decisions.

I feel that refs should be held more acocuntable for their decisions.

I do feel that some refs decisions, whether consciously or subconsciously are influenced by who they support, what is going on in the media etc etc.

When Arsenal were seen as not liking teams to kick us around, it was perfectly acceptable for some teams to do this and refs to let it happen. If they did their jobs properly, then some of the challenges that were commited would have been punished, but this didn't happen and teams were allowed to do this to us.

It happens to other teams and individual players (even more so than Arsenal) where refs are influenced to make certain decisions and it isn't right.

I also think that the rule if the ref made a decision then the decision can't be changed, needs to be changed also.

Anyway it all needs changing, I know refs have a hard job, but we have the knowledge and the technology to take the pressure off of them and have a fairer system.
 
BobbyBox;2415994. I feel that refs should be held more acocuntable for their decisions. I also think that the rule if the ref made a decision then the decision can't be changed said:
Bobby, i edited your post because those are the points i want to talk about.
I agree with the last two points.

I don't see how the first point should be brought in practice...this would open pandora's box...but maybe you got ideas how to do this...
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Interesting discussion, few thoughts:

1. @ Bobby - Referees obviously like football, and hence probably grew up as a football fans. But I don’t for a second believe that they’re so unprofessional as to let this influence them. By the same token, almost every player in the world is playing for a team he doesn’t support. Plus, Howard Webb is a self professed Liverpool fan, so that’s proof to me ;)

2. Refereeing is a professional, integral part of a very, very prosperous business. And yet salaries, training and so forth are a joke. Most referees make less in a year than every City player makes in a week. Wayne Rooney probably makes more in a month than the entirety of the refereeing profession in England. And yet we wonder why it’s hard to attract top talent.

3. If anyone has ever tried to referee a match, you’d know that you’re dependent on two things above all others: firstly your ability to keep up with play, and secondly reactions of footballers. On the first point, other than Phil Dowd I think most referees in England can at least run around a bit. On the second, the game has changed soooo much in the last 30 years with regards to this point. I’m sure people know this, but when football started there wasn’t even a referee. The thought that players would need someone to tell them if a foul had occurred was completely alien to the players. Obviously, if a player had fouled another he would own up to it as a gentleman. Clearly, that level of honesty didn’t last long, but even 15-20 years players tended to try and keep playing if they’d been fouled, and rarely play acted. Nowadays you can’t go near certain players for fear of screaming, rolling and other theatrics. And a referee only has one set of eyes, he can only see so much, he is forced to rely on reactions.

4. FIFA are not interested in making football fair. They are interested in making it compelling viewing, and in generating as much revenue as possible for the sport. And as human beings are nasty, illogical creatures, football fans LOVE it when a decision is incorrect. The media love it more.
 
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