Re: Liverpool Thread
Seems like the reasons for a few of the reserve players leaving are due to the homegrown rule coming in. Quite a few will be classed as overseas players and would take up a slot rather than class as homegrown due to them not being at the club long enough.
Duran and Brouwer would be classed as "older" overseas players and take up slots, Ngog is classed as a youngster this season but next season would take up a foreign slot.
Going to be a lot of chopping and changing in the Prem I reckon, especially at clubs like Liverpool where a lot of the reserves are foreign.
Incidently, I think it's a bit silly for any United fan to laugh at Liverpool's state at the moment, they'll be in the same situation as us soon if not worse due to the amount of debt. Most Utd fans understand our situation and can see that Utd aren't exactly secure either. Some people might be laughing on the other side of their faces soon enough.
Just sayin'.
It’s extraordinarily rich(excuse the irony) to compare Liverpool’s situation to United’s, It really is sheer fallacy and ignorance of the highest order. The difference is similar to comparing a wounded broken and battered dog, which is cowered and lost into the pits and depths of despair - To a lion maturing into it's prime, to that of a king standing proud and ready to take dominion over it's territory. Let me educate you on a few facts or rather (Fachts these are not mind games...as Rafa would put it) and make clear to yourself and few other like-minded individuals of similar unawareness, to show and explain to you the reality of the situation for both sides. The only similarity is both Hicks and Gillett borrowed the money to buy the club, just as the Glazers did.
Yes by all means, the glazers are not perfect, they are not football experts. but if you look at their wealth it’s pretty safe to assume they know about money. They bought this club as a way to make more money, not on impulse. They ran the numbers over and again and saw they could make money off it. They knew about salaries, player transfers and the much dreaded interest payments before they bought it.
United didn’t need foreign ownership in hope to bring in success. The Glazers weren’t undertaking some philanthropic rescue mission born from a love of United and its history. They saw a business opportunity. Luckily for us, they have decided that the best way to run this business is to leave the football matters alone and take care of the serious business matters. One of the marks of a intelligent person is when they know they are out of their depth in certain areas. So you see, the Glazer are strictly business men who know what they’re doing. Not cowboys who have to improvise and take drastic measures on the spot. They don’t interfere with the managerial side of things which they don’t have a clue about, while deviating and undermining the manager by speak to potential employees. This is left to Sir Alex who is given the freedom to buy and sell as he pleases.
Rest assured our club is in no danger of falling into administration or have any trouble competing for major honours in the coming seasons. Unfortunately the same can not be said of it not happening to Liverpool. As there is the real possibility and danger of your club completely going to the dogs unless they are able to find new super rich City type owners, who can afford to invest nearly 800 million of the value quoted by G&H and pump money in the club to help towards balancing the books. We are far more stable and currently in the process of paying off all our debts accordingly after refinancing through our new bond issue. All in due time of course. Don’t be deceived by the doom mongers. Here’s our current financial assessment from the BBC business site, in relation to our bond issue deal that was done back in January last year:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8475317.stm
The deal means the Premier League club will be able to pay off nearly all their outstanding debts of £509m.
They will face an annual interest bill of £45m a year on the bonds.
The sale comes after figures showed debts at the club's parent firm, Red Football Joint Venture, rose to £716.5m ($1.17bn) in the year to June 2009.
Pounds and dollars
The bond was sold in two tranches, one of £250m with a coupon rate - or interest rate - to bond holders of 8.75%, and another tranche of $425m with a coupon rate of 8.375%.
However, unlike the debt at present secured against the club, the seven-year bonds will not mature until 1 February 2017.
The annual interest bill on the bonds is close to the £41.2m in interest paid in the last financial year
Having done this and by converting the money owed to banks into a bond, it means United will be free of the potentially strict financial conditions imposed by lenders. Also we have entered into a new six year revolving credit facility to allow it to borrow an additional £75m. , we may be required to draw from our revolving credit facilities to meet our cash needs. The Glazers can draw on that facility again should they need it to invest in transfers Our situation is slightly more complicated because of the PIK notes. However, they're not technically United's debt, as they belong to the glazer family. Who are also now in the process of paying it off. However just because we are not spending huge amounts of players due to the impending fair play uefa rule and inflated market, doesn’t mean we lack financial resources as Fergie has stressed time and time again that the funds are available
Whereas your club has already took out a £350m loan to cover their initial takeover and by 2009 , they had spent £313m of it. The club has already had to pay off the £36.5m interest on that,Your debt has now reached £350m. Recording a loss of over £50m during the last financial year.. You also are suffering from loss of revenue from missing out of the Champions League football which has resulted to your club falling deeper into the chasm of debt without even a remote hope in hell of being able to meet the repayments of any of the loans.
Now the much promised plans for building a new stadium are postponed indefinitely. Even, if it does eventually happen. a new stadium at 300-400million will only plunge your club into further debt and misery. You certainly won’t be in a great position to invest in new players and pay off the debt at the same time. if you ever hope to be competitive, then obviously you need to spend more. But unfortunately you’re stuck in a near hopeless situation, where you have to sell players to keep up and pay off debts and make profits in order to actually buy.
You know I even heard Benayoun, was implying himself, that he believes that he was being pushed out of the club, just to raise money to pay off debts even though he wanted to stay. Sadly you’re in a position where all valuations of players have been negotiated by your CEO and not by the manager. Hodgson won’t have much control, as I’m sure G&H would not be willing to make the same mistake as what they did with Benitez by giving full control of transfers. Compared to the Glazers -, who leave the football side of things to Fergie. - You’re now operating as a club following the Continental style of management; Hodgson is just a coach even though his title is manager. Exactly like how Newcastle was before Keegan walked away because he had enough, while Dennis wise was buying and selling players left right and centre for him. This time Christian Purslow is your Dennis Wise, while Hodgson is your yes-man abiding version of Kevin Keegan.
While certainly this is a pity and sad state of affairs for a club once heralded as one of the most successful in British football (eons ago obviously). Though sometimes I feel bad, there can only be little sympathy for fans who were only so willing to sell their souls in exchange for money and trophies in hope finally overturn United.
However in their desperation to bring back the glory years they were yet to learn that money/success doesn’t always bring with it dignity, class and respect. The fans had assumed they had been saved and were to be the new Chelsea. They were pleased that Hicks and Gillett had bought the club - Two men with a history of owning American amateur (hotdawg and fries) teams called rodeo championship and Texas Rangers. You are now getting your just desserts for placing money above tradition, values and dignity.
Yet these are the same fans who consistently slated United through the years of buying success as if we did not earn it through building up our own history and success on the pitch. The hypocrisy showed in full force when the Liverpool fans were crowing of their perceived premature victory. By and large singing in full throttle chants of ‘’USA USA’’. When it began to go wrong and all and sundry could see Hicks were bad news, from the moment they went behind Benitez’s back. Most realists like myself tried to warn, that you shouldn’t be a team run by owners. Yet the blind fans still didn’t learn and wanted to switch to the Dubai arab owners bandwagon. Still searching for a quick fix even if it came from child abductors . The mantra resounded at the time was Yanks out Dubai in. We United fans had no choice in the matter and from day one we were aggressively against the takeover by the glazers. The reaction against it was strong there were boycotts immediately as we realized what could happen with new owners. To sum it all up the situation between Pool and United is like night and day
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