Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Kun is awesome but he wouldn't come to L'pool anyway so no point in keep bringing him up and even less so in comparing him to a completely different forward in Carroll.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Pipa sometimes you are soooo naïve.
About that Henderson quote, what else was he supposed to say?

This maybe:

"I always considered Kenny Dalglish an overrated manager. It's right that he did not do bad, but Hodgson did fantastic with WBA too, so maybe he should have stayed."

"To be completely honest, i'm a big Man Utd fan, but Ferguson offered less than Commoli and like all players, i'm only in it for the money (THAT IS A FRANK ZAPPA QUOTE!!!!). I don't like Anfield and i absolutely hate the Kop but Liverpool is only a temporary club, a step up to the real clb of my dreams: Man Utd!"

Could you imagine one player saying this??? I don't think so. All these players have had PR lessons.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

PIPA23 said:
...we had hours to replace him.
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C'mon mate! It is not like he was an integral part of the squad. On wikipedia, it says he only played 6 games and was injured for a while. Look at it this way, a team stupid as Chelsea presented you with a chance to rebuild a team by offering a huge amount of money and you blew it. You need to be smart spenders. Milan didn't replace Kaka straightly neither did Man U with Ronaldo but look at them now. Milan bought Ibra,Thiago Silva,Cassano,and Boateng for the money you had for Carroll. I might be wrong. Carroll may turn out to be a world class player. He sure has all it takes to become one.

I hope you don't do what Juve did last season by buying potentially good Italian players only. At least you have a better coach though.

Anyway, Henderson signing means Aquilani has no chance at staying right? Rumoured to be moving to Milan. Juve seem to have gave up on him after they got Pirlo for free.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Back to Clichy,

Wouldn't mind him at all. With some good defensive coaching from Clarke he could be a very very good player. You know he has the skill set having played for Arsenal, so it would be mostly defense and organisation that would need work. Johnson has looked a lot better since Clarke came in as well.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Zeem said:
C'mon mate! It is not like he was an integral part of the squad. On wikipedia, it says he only played 6 games and was injured for a while. Look at it this way, a team stupid as Chelsea presented you with a chance to rebuild a team by offering a huge amount of money and you blew it. You need to be smart spenders. Milan didn't replace Kaka straightly neither did Man U with Ronaldo but look at them now. Milan bought Ibra,Thiago Silva,Cassano,and Boateng for the money you had for Carroll. I might be wrong. Carroll may turn out to be a world class player. He sure has all it takes to become one.

I hope you don't do what Juve did last season by buying potentially good Italian players only. At least you have a better coach though.

Anyway, Henderson signing means Aquilani has no chance at staying right? Rumoured to be moving to Milan. Juve seem to have gave up on him after they got Pirlo for free.
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We knew we wanted Carroll, we said to Chelsea that it'd cost whatever Newcastle want for Carroll plus £15m. It was up to Chelsea to pay £50m or not, how much did they want him? It turns out that they were happy to pay the £50m, and we got Carroll and the £15m extra ... so let's say we sold Torres, replacing him with Carroll and Henderson.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Zeem said:
C'mon mate! It is not like he was an integral part of the squad. On wikipedia, it says he only played 6 games and was injured for a while. Look at it this way, a team stupid as Chelsea presented you with a chance to rebuild a team by offering a huge amount of money and you blew it. You need to be smart spenders. Milan didn't replace Kaka straightly neither did Man U with Ronaldo but look at them now. Milan bought Ibra,Thiago Silva,Cassano,and Boateng for the money you had for Carroll. I might be wrong. Carroll may turn out to be a world class player. He sure has all it takes to become one.

I hope you don't do what Juve did last season by buying potentially good Italian players only. At least you have a better coach though.

Anyway, Henderson signing means Aquilani has no chance at staying right? Rumoured to be moving to Milan. Juve seem to have gave up on him after they got Pirlo for free.
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1. how do you know we blew it, did Torres better for Chelsea than Carroll (still not 100% fit) for us?

2. how can you even compare us - from previous year situation with champions of Italy?

Did you consider how much those player you mentioned need to get payed in wages..? our club get´s rid of high earners and you wan´t us to sign Ibra, Cassano? Boateng was loaned and they got help from Genoa and buy him just now from them...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

DagsJT said:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...y-liverpool-fc-s-squad-plans-100252-28853719/

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/251881/Steven-Gerrard-tip-top-after-op

Some good articles in the press today.
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That first article is actually the single most ridiculous thing I've ever read in UK press. And that is definitely saying something.

It's premise is that Fergie is only signing young, English players to stop Daglish getting ahold of them, and this stems from something that happened over 20 years ago.

I mean, if I demonstrated that level of intellectual rigour in my job, I'd be fired and laughed at.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

yeah although I'm a Liverpool fan myself I get tired of these articles and comments about Ferguson shaking in his boots over Dalglish returning. Progress on the pitch and in the Premier League is what it's all about. That's where we need to overcome United, before talking about how scared he is of Liverpool FC.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

yeah.. though they did go for him unexpected.. after he was dealing with us...so make´s you think they didn´t want us to have him..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

I think it's a bit tongue-in-cheek to be honest, but I don't think Fergie will be comfortable with Kenny being around again. He probably thought he was onto a winner with another of his friends, Woy, being here.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

DagsJT said:
I think it's a bit tongue-in-cheek to be honest, but I don't think Fergie will be comfortable with Kenny being around again. He probably thought he was onto a winner with another of his friends, Woy, being here.
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I don't like Ferguson, but you are seriously underestimating him here...
I will say what i once said in the Everton thread (i like Everton very much): stop looking at other clubs (in this cas Man Utd, in Everton's case it was Liverpool) and be confident enough to focuss on your own future instead of always looking to rivals...Wouldn't you sign now for a second place after Man Utd at the end of next season? It would mean that Liverpool play CL and would be once again contenders...it doesn't matter which club is champion...

All those rivalries are contra-productif...it seems i'm the only one on this forum who don't understands them...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Jones has probably been on Fergie's radar for a couple of years.Clubs are well aware of other clubs young talent, My nephew went through the Man Utd & Blackburn academy, whilst at Utd he broke his arm and a few days later got a get well soon card through the post from Leeds Utd!
The Liverpool interest in Phil Jones has probably forced Fergie's hand, in the same way Newcastle's interest in Rooney made him rush the signing through.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Steven Gerrard today gave his backing to the signing of Jordan Henderson as he revealed why he expects to begin the 2011-12 season in stronger condition than ever before.

Liverpool tied up the transfer of the 20-year-old from Sunderland on Thursday evening and Gerrard, who played with the midfielder for England last November, feels he will have a lot to offer long term at Anfield.

He said: "It's a really positive signing. Let's hope he is the next Steven Gerrard. That's what good football clubs do - they replace their best players. Liverpool needs a new Steven Gerrard and it will need a new Jamie Carragher.

"I saw Jordan at first hand for two or three days with England and he is a good player with energy."

Gerrard will be competing with Henderson for a midfield berth in the new season.

The captain hasn't kicked a ball for Liverpool since the 3-1 victory over Manchester United at Anfield on March 6 after undergoing surgery on a groin problem.

However, Gerrard has worked assiduously in his rehabilitation and is convinced he will start the new campaign in the best condition he has been in for several years.

He said: "I have confidence in what I can do. I am going to be in the best condition physically going into this season that I have been for the last 10 years.

"I am working doubly hard on my body, on my core and on strengthening my groin, which I have suffered with.

"The operation went well and I have nearly double the strength in the groin now than before. The physios at Liverpool are measuring that on a weekly basis and the results show that.

"I know I will be rusty in friendlies but I have confidence that I am going to be the freshest I have been, both mentally and physically, for a long, long time."

Gerrard was thought to be on the verge of a first-team return in early April before he suffered a setback in training and subsequently a decision was made for him to go under the knife in a bid to cure the problem.

And while many players will be enjoying some time to relax following a long season, the No.8 will continue his recovery work over the summer to ensure he's firing on all cylinders come the start of pre-season training and beyond.

"For two or three hours each day I will have to work on my body to make sure I am right," he said. "But I don't see that as a chore. This is me getting right for Liverpool Football Club.

"I have started doing yoga a couple of times a week as well. It absolutely wipes you out. People who think you turn up and you're just posing in different shapes should have a go!

"I am enjoying it after the sessions because I am feeling the benefits. That is part of the reason why my groin feels so good just now.

"I've not kicked a ball for a long time, probably the longest I have gone in my career, and I can't wait to get back now.

"I am excited about playing under Kenny Dalglish, just like the team did at the end of the season, which was going forward. We were playing with bottle and character and going all out to beat teams. And that always suits my style of playing."

Gerrard continued: "All the work I am putting in now is to make sure I'm in the best condition going into the season and then extending my career at Liverpool beyond the two years I've got left on my contract.

"Being on the outside for two months has allowed me to look at the club in a different way because you're not caught up in the day-to-day goings on so much. Kenny's done really well, Steve Clarke's been great and the structure of the club is all in place. I'm super-excited about the future."

In Gerrard's absence, Liverpool maintained their impressive resurgence under Dalglish's stewardship - and the skipper was particularly delighted with the form of January acquisition Luis Suarez.

"You know within two or three days of training with someone what they are going to be like - Luis has got it," he said. "He's a winner and a fighter.

"Everyone is talking about his skills and rightly so, but I like the other side of him, too. I remember in the Fulham game when we won 5-2, it was the 93rd minute and he wasn't happy that we weren't given a handball. That sums him up."

Liverpool's form without Gerrard helped dispel the 'one-man-team' claims that have been perpetuated in some quarters down the years - but it was a view the 31-year-old never subscribed to personally.

"I never believed that anyway because in 2005 (Champions League final) when we won the biggest trophy, and I had the best night of my life, we had 14 absolute heroes on the pitch," he said.

"Don't forget Neil Mellor and Florent Sinama-Pongolle, who turned the Olympiakos game in the group stage that year or we would have been out.

"Of course there have been times when I have stood out, but there have been plenty of times when I have looked to my team-mates to help me.

"If that 'one-man-team' thing never gets mentioned again that's great as it means the team is doing well."

Having found themselves 12th in the table when Dalglish returned, the Reds fell narrowly short of securing Europa League qualification after suffering defeats in their final two matches to Tottenham Hotspur and Aston Villa.

Gerrard reflected: "Sometimes it is important to stay grounded and have a little reality check. The last two results will help next season because it sends a message to players and fans that we are not the finished article. There is still an awful lot of hard work left. But we don't mind that."

Gerrard watched Liverpool's final day defeat at Aston Villa at close quarters, opting to take a seat amongst the travelling Kop at Villa Park - much to the delight of the supporters sat around him.

It was an experience he relished.

"I was a fan for a day," recalled Gerrard. "Carra had done it a few years ago and I'd had a few letters saying I should go to an away game.

"It was an eye-opener for me to get in among them. For a young player in our squad, or maybe one of the foreign lads, to have a day like that would really help them.

"Fans absolutely adore the players. Everything is about the players for them, so for a player to give up a day, mix with the fans and give a little back...well, there's no harm in that.

"I am not putting pressure on anyone, but it is important for the players to have that link with the fans. If this club is going to be successful, everybody needs to stick together."

Gerrard added: "There was a bit of banter flying around. Stuff like, 'You won't get back in the team, Stevie' and 'You've got a fight on next season, Gerrard, to get past Lucas and Spearo (Jay Spearing)'.

"It was all good natured. But I don't mind all that. I know what I can do and I know the challenge ahead for me. I welcome all that. Right now, I'm just steaming for a game of football again."
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http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/stevie-on-jordan-injury-and-future

love him! :LOVE:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Oh no...here we go...the "next Gerrard"....why are they hyping up
players before he has even kicked a ball in the red shirt...

I feel 20m is way too much for Henderson...hoping he proves otherwise

Compare that to Luis Suarez signed for 23m and he was one of the
better players at the World Cup, Ajax captain and top scorer...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

he can´t be the next Gerrard, Shelvey is :P

and it´ 16 mil. pounds with Ngog on his way to Sunderland..

i think 16 mil. is still overpayd, but this depends on his season for us.. maybe we will think he was bargain after that..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

I'm pretty confident Henderson will be better than Gerrard.
I know this sounds as a provocation in a Liverpool thread (and i assure you all it isn't) but in IMO Gerrard must be one of the most overhyped players ever. I never understood what all the fuss was all about. IMO Lampard was a much better player and he was also strongly overrated. Gerrard was good because he played together with Xabi Alonso and Masscherano.

Don't understand me wrong, Gerrard was a very good player but not a world class CMF-AMF. He was never in the same league as players like Zidane, Kaka, Makelele, Fagregas, Xavi, Roy Keane, Xabi Alonso, Özil,

I do think Henderson has everything to become better than Gerrard. Gerrard became an iconic player because he came from Liverpool's youth ranks, had leaderships qualities (which is a big merit) and yes, was a very good player. But IMO he never was a world class player. IMO the best English player of (roughly) his generation is Rooney. Gerrard comes nowhere near Rooney (and personally i don't like Rooney at all).

PS: sorry if this causes havoc...it's my honest opinion.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

gerd said:
I'm pretty confident Henderson will be better than Gerrard.
I know this sounds as a provocation in a Liverpool thread (and i assure you all it isn't) but in IMO Gerrard must be one of the most overhyped players ever. I never understood what all the fuss was all about. IMO Lampard was a much better player and he was also strongly overrated. Gerrard was good because he played together with Xabi Alonso and Masscherano.

Don't understand me wrong, Gerrard was a very good player but not a world class CMF-AMF. He was never in the same league as players like Zidane, Kaka, Makelele, Fagregas, Xavi, Roy Keane, Xabi Alonso, Özil,

I do think Henderson has everything to become better than Gerrard. Gerrard became an iconic player because he came from Liverpool's youth ranks, had leaderships qualities (which is a big merit) and yes, was a very good player. But IMO he never was a world class player. IMO the best English player of (roughly) his generation is Rooney. Gerrard comes nowhere near Rooney (and personally i don't like Rooney at all).

PS: sorry if this causes havoc...it's my honest opinion.
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I see what you are saying.....
Gerrard is not a technically gifted player.... he is not
a passing genius like Xavi...not as skilful as Ozil or Zidane
not as intelligent as Kaka or Alonso or Fabregas...
he was not as tough as Keane...

but he has something else....and that was to score some big goals for us (Istanbul, West Ham,
Olympiakos, Real Madrid)
And I don't remember Roy Keane or Makelele do that...both of them are defensive midfielders
unlike Gerrard who cannot be compared to that position...

Yes he is hyped...as most British players are...
but there is something about Gerrard at his peak...
a bulldozing powerful goal-scoring midfielder....
a bull in the china shop....not very skilful or intelligent
but man...he did score so many important goals.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

gerd said:
I'm pretty confident Henderson will be better than Gerrard.
I know this sounds as a provocation in a Liverpool thread (and i assure you all it isn't) but in IMO Gerrard must be one of the most overhyped players ever. I never understood what all the fuss was all about. IMO Lampard was a much better player and he was also strongly overrated. Gerrard was good because he played together with Xabi Alonso and Masscherano.

Don't understand me wrong, Gerrard was a very good player but not a world class CMF-AMF. He was never in the same league as players like Zidane, Kaka, Makelele, Fagregas, Xavi, Roy Keane, Xabi Alonso, Özil,

I do think Henderson has everything to become better than Gerrard. Gerrard became an iconic player because he came from Liverpool's youth ranks, had leaderships qualities (which is a big merit) and yes, was a very good player. But IMO he never was a world class player. IMO the best English player of (roughly) his generation is Rooney. Gerrard comes nowhere near Rooney (and personally i don't like Rooney at all).

PS: sorry if this causes havoc...it's my honest opinion.
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i wanted to answer with long post how i don´t agree with this post...but i will only post this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/13/zinedine-zidane-steven-gerrard-liverpool

Gerrard did amazing stuff since his debut game untill now, this has nothing to do with the fact who played with him..

YouTube - Gerrard 10 TOP Goals

Lampard has won the league, but individualy he never did things Gerrard did..Gerrard won CL, Lampard never did..

and if for example this goals don´t describe his class, than i don´t know what does...btw, my personal favourites

YouTube - Gerrard Goal // Vs Marseille HQ

YouTube - Steven Gerrard goal against real Madrid

YouTube - Gerrard 2-0 vs. Inter

YouTube - Steven Gerard -Free Kick

To many people write our captain of early, the next Gerrard is Gerrard, for long time.. Henderson better score a goal like he did soon..becouse that´s what gerrard did in his debut for Liverpool:

YouTube - steven gerrard first goal for liverpool !!

also you can´t compare a striker with an midfielder.. it´s like i would say Reina comes nowhere near Drogba as player, he didn´t scored so much goals...

Gerrard´s full potential was only described with a fully working team in Rafa´s title chase...but beside that he had to play with Voronin or Bellamy type of players most of his carrer, compare that to financialy better United and Chelsea and with the players Lampard and Rooney played and play every weak.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Can't say I agree with you Gerd, I don't think Gerrard's quality is based on any individual skill, technically he isn't up there, tactically he isn't up there, movement he isn't up there. However there have been few, if any players that have had the same individual impact on the biggest matches as he has in the past decade. Keane is another one up there for the sheer force of mentality and what he got out of the rest of the team. Gerrard is similar but more goal orientated. It's his (mental)drive that is WC and that combined with a very good level of skills and power has made him one of the most important players in the league and Europe. The past few seasons with injuries has seen him drop back a step, and the lesser skills have become more apparant (passing, defensive positioning, etc) but he has still been at the very top for atleast 5 years (up till 2009 imo).
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

He's a great player, You get so many variety of midfielders so its silly to compare him to the passers like Xavi and Scholes or the creative sparks like Kaka and Ozil but like a Hamsik or a Lampard they can get you valuable goals.

they seem to be a less desirable knowadays considering you can get Wide players that have the potential to get those goals with possession players in the middle of the park
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Watching them goals makes me miss THAT Gerrard so much... please come back!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268405.0

A really interesting read, later in the thread especially, with posts by Abrak particularly good.

If anyone can be bothered to read through a quick bit of accounting I will demonstrate why a sharp focus on value is important in the transfer market. It refers to Chelsea and the numbers I have taken are from Swiss Ramble. My numbers are a little rough.

Since 2003/04 Chelsea has had net spend in the transfer market of 400m which has resulted in amortization to date of 360m. They have recorded profits from players sales of 50m. Essentially that means their net investment has been 310m. There is obviously still a lot of value tied up in the squad and older players are by now largely amortized to little or no book. But there is nothing like 310m of unrealized profits on players within the team. In fact we know that quite a few players are so old and on such large salaries that they are worth next to nothing - Lampard, Ashley Cole, Drogba, John Terry, Anelka to name a few. So effectively that is probably at least 200m of value that has been destroyed through the transfer market.

If you take that 200m and spread it over 6 years that 34m a year of losses from the transfer market or 15% of Chelseas revenues. If you consider that an average club that has 0 net spend (that is an axiom) and that the maximum wage to turnover ratio a club can have to breakeven is 70% then for Chelsea they can only afford a 55% wage to turnover ratio.

So how is Chelsea losing such much in the transfer market. (1) When Chelsea bought Torres they increased his salary from 110k to 180k and paid us 50m. As he had 4 years left on his contract they had to pay us 15m in compensation for the fact we were underpaying him. To look at it another way, if we had bought him back the very next day we would only have paid a maximum of 35m because we would be lumbered with a much higher wage bill. (2) The fact that he is so highly paid means he is not a particularly attractive acquisition for another club especially by the age of 30. In all probability he will stay at the club like most of their highly paid players until he retires at which point his transfer fee of 50m will have eroded to zero. (3) If you make a habit of buying Schevchenkos and the like at 29 you will find your transfer fee erodes to zero very quickly however good a player he is.

And this is a BIG problem for Chelsea you see they need to reduce their wage bill at 82% of turnover in any case. They have lots of highly paid players who have been there a long time with virtually no book value to amortize who will retire over the next two or three years. They can of course replace them with players on much lower salaries - say 90k compared to 130k a week. The problem is that they first have to acquire them and the acquisition cost will push up their amortization charge. If Lampard on 140k a week is replaced by a player on 90k who cost 25m in transfer fees, then they will have an additional 5m a year amortization or 100k a week. Meaning the replacement player is actually costing the club 190k a week, rather more than Lampard who he replaced.

The point to understand is that Chelsea and I suspect Man City not only have to reduce their wage base they have to stop wasting money in the transfer market. As I see it if you buy Scneijder for 35m and pay him 200k a week, as the transfer value will erode to nothing in 7 years you are better off saying his wages are 300k a week. Henderson at 20m stands a good chance of still be worth 20m in 7 years time at the age of 27.

I am very much aware that we need to have players who can bring immediate results to the pitch next season but we have to keep an eye on value. I am very reluctant for us to pay 18m for Gary Cahill if he is demanding 130k wages a week. That is a wage bracket we can only afford to pay our very top players and it possibly represents a level whereby other teams are unwilling to purchase him in the future, so that our transfer fee is rendered effectively worthless. If 'proven' 'producing' english talent is going to be that expensive it may make sense to look abroad to bring in established players.

As we can see lumbering yourself with high wage contracts is a very sure route to losing value in the transfer market which then simply translates to additional costs for the player.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268405.msg8805817#msg8805817

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268405.msg8805821#msg8805821

Cracking posts.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Can someone please put my mind at rest and confirm we will not be getting rid of Merieles if we get Adam?????????
 
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