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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

Pool will go the rest of the season unbeaten and claim the title. Then we'll all look prety silly.

Well we've only lost one league game all season as it is anyway.....its not helping much atm ;)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

anuary 29, 2009
Sick Of Defending Benítez
At times like these I feel like giving up. The voices of doom are becoming cacophonous, and here I am again suggesting that things really aren’t that bad. Because, let’s face it, they’re not.


Not that I'm happy with the way things are panning out lately, either. It sucks. I’m fed up, frustrated, disappointed. But sack the manager? Call him some pretty disgusting names? Accuse him of ‘ruining’ our club? No. Never.



Benítez’s greatest crime this season? Well, it appears to be giving the fans belief that we could win the title by having his team, dictated by his tactics (but shorn of his best signing), lead the table for seven weeks at the haflway stage.


The b******.


Was it always pretty? No. Was it always convincing? No. Could the same be said of Manchester United, who ground out unconvincing 1-0 wins aplenty? Yes.


So what’s the difference? Well, one team is full of the confidence of confirmed winners dating back up to 16 years, and experience of the situations and challenges they will face.


The other is one that, if truth be told, probably got a few too many good results earlier in the season and is now low on confidence. A paradox perhaps, but maybe Liverpool flew too close to the sun and invited pressure they were not yet ready to deal with. Of course, you cannot turn that down. You have to go for it. And you have to live with it, and learn from it. (Icarus: next time I’ll build my wings out of a heat-resistant wax.)


After arguably the best performance from the Reds in many years, and with the lead at the top looking healthy, Steven Gerrard was arrested. A Manchester United fan was involved. Since then, Liverpool have not won a league game. (That United fan will probably end up being knighted, knowing the way the honours list works regarding football in this country.)


The captain has appeared in court in between two games against Everton that tested his bottle to the limit; two hugely emotional occasions for the Red talisman, in which he scored chant-muffling goals. But those two games aside (and in the first he was generally quiet), he has not been anywhere near the player that, to me, looked the best in the world at Newcastle and many times before.


After all that effort, in two mammoth encounters within six days, Liverpool faced a confident Wigan team three days later who’d had a week and a half off to rest and prepare. Liverpool tired, and the home side, who were desperately unlucky to lose at Old Trafford a couple of weeks earlier, came back strong. For an hour I had Tourette’s Syndrome, randomly chuntering f*** it! under my breath.


United held on to their 1-0 wins – at times, like against Wigan, with a good bit of luck. Liverpool have been sucker-punched to lose four late points in the last two league games. Fine margins between genius and Gump. Are Liverpool tiring a little? Is a little less rotation earlier in the season proving costly? Who knows.


Did Rafa make negative, ‘protective’ subsitutions to hold on to the lead? Perhaps.


But if he’d brought on strikers, and it backfired, he’d have been slaughtered for that, too. After all, after the first Everton game he was criticised for replacing Torres with Lucas, but half of the critics felt it should have been Mascherano, a better but even more defensive midfielder, who came on instead.


Sometimes you can protect a lead by going more defensive; other times it’ll invite on pressure. There is no hard-and-fast rule of what definitely works. Houllier’s biggest mistake is regularly touted as taking off Didi Hamann for Vladimir Smicer in Leverkusen when leading by one goal on aggregate.


Do I think Rafa lost the plot with his ‘fact’ speech? No. He was spot-on in what he said; Graham Poll came out and spoke of the fear referees have of Ferguson, a man since named as the most powerful figure in English football.


However, by saying it there was always the possibility it could backfire, whether it was caused by what he said or whether events would just pan out that way.


It was not a rant, but a calculated diatribe that was designed to have referees treat United as they treat other teams, particularly with Chelsea at Old Trafford that weekend. Or, at least, supposed to be there; they didn’t show up. But it put too much focus on Liverpool. Whether or not it backfired, it has been seen to backfire. And that’s all that counts.


Perhaps, with Rafa ill with kidney stones, he had too much time to think while kept away from Melwood. Perhaps he wanted to deflect attentions from Gerrardgate. Perhaps, if a major decision had gone Chelsea’s way that day, he’d have been hailed a genius. So I don’t think it has helped in any way (unless we now get a referee with two bollocks at Old Trafford).


Has Rafa been making some unfathomable substitutions lately? Yes. But he always has. I’ve often disagreed with them at the time, such as hauling off Gerrard last season at Goodison, but it has also often worked out. If I can’t fathom everything he gets right, I can’t be too critical of what he gets wrong.


But to see the stick he’s getting for removing Torres at Wigan is just disgusting. Here is a player whose hamstrings have been tested to the limit in recent weeks, and who is the last person we need to miss with yet another recurrance. All those who think it’s mad to subsitute him would be the very ones doing their nut if he got an 87th minute tweak or, heaven-forbid, tear.


Gerrard wasn’t playing well either, and has had a very tiring time of late, in terms of the pressure he’s under. (Hopefully it will be proved that he was not the cause of the trouble, but that can only be conjecture to anyone outside of the court case. But he seems a man of integrity on the whole, and I’d like to trust him.)


Do I think Lucas is a bad player? No, never. He showed at St James’ Park how good he can be. Do I think he has yet to prove he’s good enough – big enough, in the cahones department, and consistent enough – to play for Liverpool? Yes. He still looks overawed a lot of the time. I’m far from convinced.


Do I think Rafa is mad for perservering with a young Brazil international who won their league’s Player of the Year at 20? No. Can I understand why he tries to give a young player he knows has ability some confidence? Yes.


Benítez often sticks with players out of form, such as Crouch and Keane early on in their time at the club, and it baffles people; those players come good, Liverpool come good, and the second half of seasons tend to end stronger.


We need that to start happening again, as it did from last February onwards. But unlike Villa and United, Liverpool don’t have the momentum at the moment.


Do I think Rafa is mad for not playing Robbie Keane? No, not all all. Keane may have been bought with the idea to play Gerrard deeper, with Alonso sold; Barry may have come in and played on the left. But for the most part, Gerrard has been outstanding in the role behind the main striker – and if he’s fit (or trying to get match-fitness), that main striker will be Torres.


While Keane has done well at times, he did not do enough in Torres’ absence to make himself undroppable. Meanwhile, Alonso, who was heading for the exit, came back into the midfield and has been immense. But as one of the less athletic players (he covers a lot of ground but is not a marathon man), he needs resting from time to time, so that’s where Lucas comes in, like it or not.


Do I think there is no way Liverpool can win the league under Benítez? Of course not. But it’s a monster task, no matter who is in charge. This appeared to be a great season with some stuttering from United, Chelsea and Arsenal, but equally, Liverpool have had their own reasons for stuttering at times, too. (Torres’ injury, Gerrard’s court case, etc.)


Is the manager right to be wanting his contract sorted out, and that of a great young player like Daniel Agger? Yes. Do I know what’s going on behind the scenes? No. Do I wish it stayed behind the scenes? Yes.


But as for me, I’m just worn down by this relentless civil war amongst Liverpool fans, and my part in the middle. I defend Benítez because I believe he is a great (if not 100% perfect) manager. I defend him because I believe the Liverpool way is to not undermine the manager. I defend him because his is incredibly dedicated and cares for our club. I defend him because I believe in continuity, and how long-term managers tend to do better than those at the clubs who chop and change.


No-one knows if Benítez will land the title or not, just as no-one knew in 1990 and 1991 if Ferguson would ever even get close. Up to that point, he’d spent 75% of his time in the bottom half of the table. United fans didn’t think so; they wanted him out.


Part of me thinks, f*** it. I keep providing reams of evidence (online and in books like Dynasty) that Rafa has done a great job overall: that his signings are generally excellent (in terms of those who are shining in the first team); that his record in terms of league wins stands up against those of Shankly and Paisley; that his first four years in charge absolutely obliterate the achievements of Ferguson in the late ‘80s, when the Scot inherited a team in a similar state and, in real terms, bought a greater number of expensive players; and so on.


The millstone Benítez carries is immense. It weighs almost 20 years. Ferguson had the same problem.


People forget that Hillsborough opened the door for Manchester United. Without that, Kenny Dalglish would not have struggled with a number of physical and mental problems relating to stress, and the empire would almost certainly not have crumbled so spectacularly from 1991 onwards.


In other words, Ferguson needed Liverpool to fail. He didn’t knock us of our “fucking perch”; we fell, in large part down to a horrible tragedy.


A refreshed Dalglish came back with Blackburn and embarrassed Ferguson, to prove a point, but by then Liverpool were recovering from the bad joke of Souness’ signings (which, in ‘real terms’, were three times as expensive as Benítez’s).


And from that point, United only grew in strength, to the point where now, unfortunately for us, they are the champions of England and Europe (I won’t say the world, as that’s a Mickey Mouse competition).


Before Rafa even arrived, Ferguson had six key players in his current set-up in place. An uneven, unfair contest was under way. In arrears to the tune of 30 points and at least a couple of world-class players, Benítez closed the gap, even though United themselves continued to strengthen, such as when finally bringing in a top goalkeeper, several expensive midfielders, a rock to play alongside Ferdinand, and £30m men Carlos Tevez and Dimitar Bervatov.


Benítez himself had wanted Vidic, just as he wanted Simao and Alves, two other players who’ve gone on to prove themselves. But the money wasn’t there at the time. All the while Ferguson was getting his men.


But all this is just not good enough for some.


So part of me thinks, I’ll give up the good fight. Let them eat cake – or, rather, let them have their new manager. See if I care.


Except I will, I always will.


And even if Joe Kinnear was appointed, I would want to see him succeed, rather than fail so ‘my’ man, Benítez, looked good by comparison.

Some good points.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Great player though.
Wasn't Souness the one that turned down the signing of Cantona?
Great player, yes, but set us back 10 years or so, with changing trusted training methods and changing the team too quickly after Dalglish left. I for one, shall never forgive him for getting rid of Beardsley. Sacrilege:CURSE:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Was it Dalglish that bought David Speedie, etc. just before he left? I seem to remember the wheels were coming off before Souness came and he just added to the problems.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Souness was a shambles of a manager and you can tell when he does pundit work that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

PRoves that good players dont make good managers.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Hyppia has been left out of the CL squad again, and Degen has kept his place again. I forgot Degen was still at us, what's the point in keeping him in the CL squad? :CONF:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Hyppia has been left out of the CL squad again, and Degen has kept his place again.
Sometimes I just don't get it. Degen isn't fit enough to tie Hyypia's bootlaces.......in fact he just isn't fit....
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Never Walk Alone? Liverpool chiefs are pulling in different directions

The people at the top of Liverpool Football Club never tire of telling the world how special their fans are.

They’re fond of quoting, even miming, those famous Rodgers and Hammerstein lyrics about never walking alone. But behind the sentimental smokescreen lie warring factions so obsessed with personal victory they long ago ceased to care about the misery they’re piling on those same fans.

From the team-sheets to the balance-sheets, from the manager’s head to the owners’ objectives, Kopites no longer have a clue what’s going on at Anfield.

At the very point in history when the club cries out for unity, the blows from above rain down harder.

It’s as though Manchester United being one title away from equalling their own record of 18 has made the management more intent on playing out their civil war.

As though Liverpool’s seven-week presence at the top of the table didn’t just give their fans a chance to rekindle past glories, it gave the men in charge a platform to cement their own futures.

The absentee American cowboys are only united in one goal: To suck as much money out of Anfield and forget they ever heard of the place.

The life president and the chief executive are lame ducks, wallowing in the shame of selling the club so badly and so cheaply. And an increasingly stubborn manager, who refuses to sign a new contract until he’s handed full control of all football matters, seems more intent on all-out attacks on Rick Parry than opposing teams.

There’s schisms and plotting, lying and leaks, inexplicable outbursts and bizarre decisions wholly unbefitting a great club which is now five months away from being repossessed by banks. And in between are a group of players, some awaiting new contracts, others acceptance, many simply bemused at what’s going on around them.

Forget the awful draws, the anti-Fergie rant and the Press leak which forced the Kuwaitis to walk away in anger, what most sums up this unseemly shambles is the treatment of Robbie Keane.

Last summer, Benitez fancied him, but not as much as he fancied Gareth Barry. Parry fancied Keane so badly he paid over the odds, leaving Benitez without sufficient cash for Barry, and fuming.

Almost from day one Keane has felt unwanted, a feeling confirmed by regular substitutions, exclusion from the team and eventually, in a home derby, from the bench. And this week he’s all but been encouraged to leave.

So instead of watching a proven striker winning games, the fans stare dumbfounded at a £20million pawn in a long-running power struggle. Nothing exposes the divisions at the heart of the club more.

I’ve been a staunch supporter of Benitez and I still believe he can make Liverpool great again. I even think he can win a trophy this season.

But right now he seems so hell-bent on winning his own personal battles he’s alienating everyone around him. Tomorrow Tom Hicks and George Gillett will sit a dozen seats apart in the directors’ box, in some fake show of love for a club they’re killing. Equally distant will be Benitez and Parry.

No doubt, if Liverpool win, all will try to claim credit, when it will probably be down to a flash of brilliance from the usual suspects and the passion of the fans they claim are so special.

Well here’s a message from one of them: This year sees the 50th anniversary of Bill Shankly’s arrival at Anfield and the creation of modern Liverpool.

Never in his worst nightmare would he have envisaged his precious club being run in such a destructive and undignified manner.

----------------------------

Depressing....
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

The Stadium and Museum tour is awsome !! I went last Wednesday and it was great.
Anyway, right now I'm in London in Olympia Kengiston, can you recommend me a pub where Liverpool fan's goes so I can go to see tomorrow match against Abramovich FC ?
Cheers
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

anywhere with lots of indians :D

If the game was at the bridge, there are usually a few pubs local taken over by travelling scousers.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

well according to a load of rumours Keane won't be in the squad again today. I think it's pretty clear that if he's not in the squad for such a big game it's because we're in talks with Tottenham.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

there'll be plenty of deals completed tomorrow i reckon.

I would only be happy for Keane to leave if we've got another striker coming in.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Rafa Benitez is expected to sign a new long-term contract with Liverpool this week.

The club's American owners have agreed to give him full control over transfer policy. Liverpool coowner Tom Hicks last night arrived at Anfield to tell Benitez the valuation of transfer targets will no longer be the remit of chief executive Rick Parry.

And the owners are ready to sanction the sale of £20million misfit Robbie Keane, who has been left out of the Liverpool squad for this afternoon's crunch clash with Chelsea.

Boss Benitez (left) rejected an initial offer of four-and-ahalf-year contract extension last month because of his discontent that Parry refused to meet Aston Villa's £18m asking price for Gareth Barry last summer.

Advertisement - article continues below »

Instead, Keane's axed he sanctioned the £20marrival of Keane from Tottenham. NowBenitez will be given power to identify and value transfer targets within a set budget. Co-owner George Gillett will fly in today to seal the deal with Hicks and Benitez.

It will take Benitez to June 2013 and will be worth £20m. Asource close to Hicks said: "The owners have had a number of conversations with Rafa Benitez on the telephone this week.

and they agree with his view on how transfer business will be conducted. Tom Hicks and George Gillett hope to conclude the contract while they are in England." Parry will now be asked to concentrate on the club's commercial side. Keane, left out of the squad for a second time, now looks destined for a return to London - if Spurs return the full fee.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/lates...lion-deal-to-stay-at-anfield-115875-21086574/
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

And now we're hearing from a journalist on Sky's Sunday Supplement that Keane is likely to be at Spurs and it wouldn't be a surprise to see Pavylychenko at us :CONF:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

If this all materialises, i feel sorry for Keane about how he's been treated, he even started to hit form and then got dumped, but if its true that Parry pushed for this transfer........

its does however make sense, why would Rafa have wanted him so badly if we has just found a formation towards the back end of last season that seemed to make us unbeatable.

Pavluychenko? I like him, but hes the sort that will moan and not getting games ahead of Torres.
 
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