Liverpool Thread
- Thread starter Misfit
- Start date
antred
Banned
- 15 August 2003
Re: Liverpool Thread
Well you certainly dont show it. For a person whose supposedly seen the growth you'd think you'd have a bit more understanding, appreciation and respect.
Antred, I was standing on the Stretford End watching us run around drunk with Fat Ron as coach. I'm proud to see the team we've become.
Don't tarnish EVERY United supporter with the same brush. Some of us have actually supported them BEFORE the Premiership was founded. I am nearly 30, not 13.
Well you certainly dont show it. For a person whose supposedly seen the growth you'd think you'd have a bit more understanding, appreciation and respect.
Plan M
Banned
- 27 September 2007
- Manchester United
Re: Liverpool Thread
He is very aggressive.
He is very aggressive.
He scares me!
Re: Liverpool Thread
Ant, I don't think its fair to have a go at Plan M. You are a passionate supporter and so is he...These things tend to clash but in all fairness he has made some valid points as did you...I can imagine that a general consensus will not be reached here, but please put things in perspective
Ant, I don't think its fair to have a go at Plan M. You are a passionate supporter and so is he...These things tend to clash but in all fairness he has made some valid points as did you...I can imagine that a general consensus will not be reached here, but please put things in perspective
Plan M
Banned
- 27 September 2007
- Manchester United
Re: Liverpool Thread
I agree, Fre. We're both passionate, nothing wrong with that.
Shake hands Antred?
I agree, Fre. We're both passionate, nothing wrong with that.
Shake hands Antred?
Re: Liverpool Thread
5 players?
One right back worth 6-7 million. One right winger to play where Kuyt is worth 15 million. One backup striker, who can also play as supporting striker worth 10-12 million. That's roughly worth 35 million, and Rafa will again recoup around 20 million on player sales alone. If I had my way, it would Rafinha, Bentley and Pandev. What Rafa does is up to him, but we don't need to spend 60 million. It's about buying the right players, not the best.
Yes, Torres has been signing of the year, and there's one big reason for that - the manager. He is a transformed player, and Rafa has played a huge part in that.
Problem with Skrtel is, he hasn't settled in a partnership. IMO, Agger would compliment him perfectly, and I can't emphasize how big a miss he's been. I rate Agger very highly, but Skrtel has shown against Inter and Chelsea, that he has what it takes. Lucas is a player I've watched a bit at Gremio as well, and believe me, he's top quality. He has already shown in a few matches this season, that's he's top draw. He's probably gotten tired as the season has gone, but anyways, most signing take at least a season or two to settle, apart from Torres. Same with Babel, who's shown glimpses of brilliance, but is very under-confident in his ability. TBH, I am more confident of Lucas being a top player, but both should reach the top level in 2-3 seasons.
I do agree with us needing a motivator. That's where Pako has been missing. Rafa needs an assistant IMO, someone who can be close to the players. There were rumors about Sammy Lee joining but those have faded away, but getting an assistant is important. But regarding our United fixtures, it's only going to end when we actually beat you. Unless we do that, we're always going to under confident. I was kind of hoping to draw United in the CL, where we always are up for it. If we beat you there, then maybe it would have affected how we approach the league fixtures. It's like a bug isn't it? Houllier always managed to win at United, even though it was ugly. 11 players defending the goal, and a Murphy goal!
And NO WAY, am I comparing Rafa with Ferguson. That would be pointless, because Ferguson has been at the top level for a good part of 15 years, and will go down as one of the greatest managers of all time. I was simply comparing their situations. Both took over clubs, that had been unsuccessful for a long time, and had to go through a phase of rebuilding. Rafa has a VERY LONG way to go to even be mentioned along side Ferguson. But Rafa has been 8 years in management at the top level, and few managers have a CV that he has. Just the fact, that top teams like Barcelona and Real Madrid want him shows that he is top quality.
@Mike, were you one of those calling for Ferguson to get the axe, when he did not achieve anything in his first 5 years?
I agree, really solid post, if a bit optimistic IMO. The main contention I have is with the argument that Rafa will bring in a couple quality wingers, a second striker (surely Crouch/Kuyt aren't good enough?) some pacy full backs and then you'll have a chance. In today's terms, unless he pulls a Wenger style trick and robs a cradle, you're not going to get that for under £60m or so. Which, unless I'm way off, is a pretty massive chunk of any profits you're making, and without a ridiculous cash injection (perhaps DIC) won't be possible. I do feel that Torres is the signing of the year, he's been a revelation, but having seen a lot of pool this season, I've not been overly impressed with Skrtel, Babel or the oft-lauded Brazilian 'starlet'. I know it takes time, and maybe they'll come out in force, but I don't get that impression.
I think what you should focus on more than a new squad is, as someone above mentioned, a motivator. Someone to get pool up for it, every game of the year, not just on the European stage.
And by the way, can we wait 20 years or so before comparing Rafa to Fergie?
5 players?
One right back worth 6-7 million. One right winger to play where Kuyt is worth 15 million. One backup striker, who can also play as supporting striker worth 10-12 million. That's roughly worth 35 million, and Rafa will again recoup around 20 million on player sales alone. If I had my way, it would Rafinha, Bentley and Pandev. What Rafa does is up to him, but we don't need to spend 60 million. It's about buying the right players, not the best.
Yes, Torres has been signing of the year, and there's one big reason for that - the manager. He is a transformed player, and Rafa has played a huge part in that.
Problem with Skrtel is, he hasn't settled in a partnership. IMO, Agger would compliment him perfectly, and I can't emphasize how big a miss he's been. I rate Agger very highly, but Skrtel has shown against Inter and Chelsea, that he has what it takes. Lucas is a player I've watched a bit at Gremio as well, and believe me, he's top quality. He has already shown in a few matches this season, that's he's top draw. He's probably gotten tired as the season has gone, but anyways, most signing take at least a season or two to settle, apart from Torres. Same with Babel, who's shown glimpses of brilliance, but is very under-confident in his ability. TBH, I am more confident of Lucas being a top player, but both should reach the top level in 2-3 seasons.
I do agree with us needing a motivator. That's where Pako has been missing. Rafa needs an assistant IMO, someone who can be close to the players. There were rumors about Sammy Lee joining but those have faded away, but getting an assistant is important. But regarding our United fixtures, it's only going to end when we actually beat you. Unless we do that, we're always going to under confident. I was kind of hoping to draw United in the CL, where we always are up for it. If we beat you there, then maybe it would have affected how we approach the league fixtures. It's like a bug isn't it? Houllier always managed to win at United, even though it was ugly. 11 players defending the goal, and a Murphy goal!
And NO WAY, am I comparing Rafa with Ferguson. That would be pointless, because Ferguson has been at the top level for a good part of 15 years, and will go down as one of the greatest managers of all time. I was simply comparing their situations. Both took over clubs, that had been unsuccessful for a long time, and had to go through a phase of rebuilding. Rafa has a VERY LONG way to go to even be mentioned along side Ferguson. But Rafa has been 8 years in management at the top level, and few managers have a CV that he has. Just the fact, that top teams like Barcelona and Real Madrid want him shows that he is top quality.
@Mike, were you one of those calling for Ferguson to get the axe, when he did not achieve anything in his first 5 years?
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Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Liverpool Thread
Anthony.
Anthony.
antred
Banned
- 15 August 2003
Re: Liverpool Thread
Im not bitter. I just point out injustices. Theres a whacking great chasm of difference. Being bitter would mean i would be jealous of your success, which of course im not. Im not jealous of your stadium, your players or your fans and quite happy with my own teams success.
You call me bitter because sometimes i hit a nerve with what i say and some people dont like that, im not afraid to speak my mind on football matters. My issue with some of you is that you usually band into threads and give people a kicking when their teams struggling, its not banter its snide.
Anyway here we go again with argueing and i cant be bothered with it all again. We lost and thats the end of it, hopefully the incidents we witnessed this weekend will be played out in the future properly to every team that breaks the rules.
Im not bitter. I just point out injustices. Theres a whacking great chasm of difference. Being bitter would mean i would be jealous of your success, which of course im not. Im not jealous of your stadium, your players or your fans and quite happy with my own teams success.
You call me bitter because sometimes i hit a nerve with what i say and some people dont like that, im not afraid to speak my mind on football matters. My issue with some of you is that you usually band into threads and give people a kicking when their teams struggling, its not banter its snide.
Anyway here we go again with argueing and i cant be bothered with it all again. We lost and thats the end of it, hopefully the incidents we witnessed this weekend will be played out in the future properly to every team that breaks the rules.
Plan M
Banned
- 27 September 2007
- Manchester United
Re: Liverpool Thread
Good question and I'll give you an honest answer: No.
Under Ron our players were overweight, we played the long-ball, we played with no PASSION.
Fergie came in and got rid of the dead wood and implicated the passing, possession game. He trained the players harder and got them in shape. He recognised players' like McGrath's drink problems and got rid of them. Of course, we all got very frustrated with the lack of trophies but we kept the faith, started finsishing 2nd until 92/93 when we WON the title! Fergie was given FECK ALL money from Martin Edwards so he had to be very clever in the transfer markets, which he was. He didn't have £25 million to spend on a striker, put it that way!
Good question and I'll give you an honest answer: No.
Under Ron our players were overweight, we played the long-ball, we played with no PASSION.
Fergie came in and got rid of the dead wood and implicated the passing, possession game. He trained the players harder and got them in shape. He recognised players' like McGrath's drink problems and got rid of them. Of course, we all got very frustrated with the lack of trophies but we kept the faith, started finsishing 2nd until 92/93 when we WON the title! Fergie was given FECK ALL money from Martin Edwards so he had to be very clever in the transfer markets, which he was. He didn't have £25 million to spend on a striker, put it that way!
antred
Banned
- 15 August 2003
Re: Liverpool Thread
I'm perfectly calm mate. Its just recently i've decided to not sit back on things like i usually do.
Looking forward to Sunday?
I'm perfectly calm mate. Its just recently i've decided to not sit back on things like i usually do.
Looking forward to Sunday?
antred
Banned
- 15 August 2003
Re: Liverpool Thread
No problem.
I dont dislike you, i dont know you to be that way. I think we need to step back a bit, theres a lot of hate in football these days and its our responsibility to not antagonise the other in defeat.
No problem.
I dont dislike you, i dont know you to be that way. I think we need to step back a bit, theres a lot of hate in football these days and its our responsibility to not antagonise the other in defeat.
Re: Liverpool Thread
In a word ....NO!...Massive game for us but this long hard season has finally caught up with us and we are now scraping the barrel, lots of injuries devastated to lose cahill for the season...broken metatarsal again....
In a word ....NO!...Massive game for us but this long hard season has finally caught up with us and we are now scraping the barrel, lots of injuries devastated to lose cahill for the season...broken metatarsal again....
Plan M
Banned
- 27 September 2007
- Manchester United
Re: Liverpool Thread
Fair enough mate. What you just said is spot-on, sometimes we should take a step back.
Fair enough mate. What you just said is spot-on, sometimes we should take a step back.
Clockender
is back...but for how long?
Re: Liverpool Thread
Group hug people!!!
Group hug people!!!
antred
Banned
- 15 August 2003
Re: Liverpool Thread
Really? I knew he was injured but not by what. Metatarsels...it must be the boots.
You may play for a draw i suspect. Moyes is building something there but the push for fourth and a UEFA run is taking its toll you're right, especially in the UEFA where it seems you need to play 50 games to get to the quarters.
If Johnson is fit i reckon you have a decent chance, seems to play well against us, but you never know, Derbies are hard to call.
We shall see in any event.
In a word ....NO!...Massive game for us but this long hard season has finally caught up with us and we are now scraping the barrel, lots of injuries devastated to lose cahill for the season...broken metatarsal again....
Really? I knew he was injured but not by what. Metatarsels...it must be the boots.
You may play for a draw i suspect. Moyes is building something there but the push for fourth and a UEFA run is taking its toll you're right, especially in the UEFA where it seems you need to play 50 games to get to the quarters.
If Johnson is fit i reckon you have a decent chance, seems to play well against us, but you never know, Derbies are hard to call.
We shall see in any event.
Plan M
Banned
- 27 September 2007
- Manchester United
Re: Liverpool Thread
Fair enough. The same can be applied for Benitez. You can say Ferguson didn't have money, but he did spend money on players, and for that time, it was quiet an amount. Obviously, most of those players doubled or tripled their values, but same can be said about Torres, who's probably worth 35-40M now.
To keep up with today's clubs, Rafa has had to spend on players on a limited budget. I mean at that time, you didn't have clubs spending 30M on Ballack or Shevchenko, or 30M on defenders did you? Compared to them, Rafa has had to spend on a limited budget. And other teams have had to tweak their squads, while Rafa has taken the job of rebuilding the team. He has revamped the youth system, and you will be seeing at least 2-3 players in the next few seasons coming up. Guthrie is already one, who is going well in EPL team, at a young age of 20.
Our football is infinitely times better than what was it under Houllier. He has converted players like Carra, into world class footballers. And while rebuilding, he has won the UCL, FA Cup, and reached another final, and managed to maintain the top 4 position, finishing 3rd, once, only 1 point behind you. We reached our record for highest points under Rafa. And this is during a team, when success, or failure is magnified infinitely times more than it during those days. Do you think Ferguson would have survived finishing 13th twice, under present day circumstances.
The bottomline is, Houllier left us to rot. Rafa has come, and lifted us from UEFA Cup mediocrity, to CL contenders. We have always secured CL spot, and in a way, Rafa himself has paid for all the players he's bought. We have a squad much better than what was under Houllier, without letting Rafa spend as liberally as Houllier did. But now, with money becoming so involved, it is much more difficult to reach the top, with the top clubs getting richer, and outspend you every time.
So, you see, I have a good case for Rafa. A very good case. In his 4th season in charge, our team is 10 times better than under Ged. But the problem is that ALL clubs have improved. Rafa deserves 2 years and more to bring the league title, and I am confident that he will.
Fair enough. The same can be applied for Benitez. You can say Ferguson didn't have money, but he did spend money on players, and for that time, it was quiet an amount. Obviously, most of those players doubled or tripled their values, but same can be said about Torres, who's probably worth 35-40M now.
To keep up with today's clubs, Rafa has had to spend on players on a limited budget. I mean at that time, you didn't have clubs spending 30M on Ballack or Shevchenko, or 30M on defenders did you? Compared to them, Rafa has had to spend on a limited budget. And other teams have had to tweak their squads, while Rafa has taken the job of rebuilding the team. He has revamped the youth system, and you will be seeing at least 2-3 players in the next few seasons coming up. Guthrie is already one, who is going well in EPL team, at a young age of 20.
Our football is infinitely times better than what was it under Houllier. He has converted players like Carra, into world class footballers. And while rebuilding, he has won the UCL, FA Cup, and reached another final, and managed to maintain the top 4 position, finishing 3rd, once, only 1 point behind you. We reached our record for highest points under Rafa. And this is during a team, when success, or failure is magnified infinitely times more than it during those days. Do you think Ferguson would have survived finishing 13th twice, under present day circumstances.
The bottomline is, Houllier left us to rot. Rafa has come, and lifted us from UEFA Cup mediocrity, to CL contenders. We have always secured CL spot, and in a way, Rafa himself has paid for all the players he's bought. We have a squad much better than what was under Houllier, without letting Rafa spend as liberally as Houllier did. But now, with money becoming so involved, it is much more difficult to reach the top, with the top clubs getting richer, and outspend you every time.
So, you see, I have a good case for Rafa. A very good case. In his 4th season in charge, our team is 10 times better than under Ged. But the problem is that ALL clubs have improved. Rafa deserves 2 years and more to bring the league title, and I am confident that he will.
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: Liverpool Thread
I'll tell you what, Abhishek's posts really are an excellent read. Sometimes I skip over long posts as it's usually filler-talk. But Ab's posts are always full of good points. Cracking stuff mate
I'll tell you what, Abhishek's posts really are an excellent read. Sometimes I skip over long posts as it's usually filler-talk. But Ab's posts are always full of good points. Cracking stuff mate
Re: Liverpool Thread
I'll tell you what, Abhishek's posts really are an excellent read. Sometimes I skip over long posts as it's usually filler-talk. But Ab's posts are always full of good points. Cracking stuff mate
Re: Liverpool Thread
is rafa days numbered?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_3350213,00.html
is rafa days numbered?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_3350213,00.html
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: Liverpool Thread
No. He's CONSTANTLY linked with La Liga clubs, today is no different. He's been approached by Real before and told them he's not interested and he has a long term plan at Liverpool. He's not going to walk away from Liverpool anytime soon, and certainly not to Barca I'd have thought considering he's ex-Real anyway.
Another day, the same story :roll:
No. He's CONSTANTLY linked with La Liga clubs, today is no different. He's been approached by Real before and told them he's not interested and he has a long term plan at Liverpool. He's not going to walk away from Liverpool anytime soon, and certainly not to Barca I'd have thought considering he's ex-Real anyway.
Another day, the same story :roll:
Re: Liverpool Thread
The news in the media is just disgusting. Mash is going to be made a scapegoat. He's going to be made an example of. Mash got a red card, but now he's a targeted man. And will Ashley Cole get anything? Will he fuck?
The news in the media is just disgusting. Mash is going to be made a scapegoat. He's going to be made an example of. Mash got a red card, but now he's a targeted man. And will Ashley Cole get anything? Will he fuck?
Re: Liverpool Thread
If they give a punishment more severe than they did to Viera for 'refusing' to leave the field immediately, then it just confirms to me that the FA is a joke and favours certain teams/managers.
Why the fuck did they give Bennett the game after he was the 4th offical embroilled in the Colegate scandal just a few days ago? Why was the leagues best ref given Villa v Sunderland?
Ohwell, its Webb next week so we will see what hes like!
If they give a punishment more severe than they did to Viera for 'refusing' to leave the field immediately, then it just confirms to me that the FA is a joke and favours certain teams/managers.
Why the fuck did they give Bennett the game after he was the 4th offical embroilled in the Colegate scandal just a few days ago? Why was the leagues best ref given Villa v Sunderland?
Ohwell, its Webb next week so we will see what hes like!
Re: Liverpool Thread
I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment he's getting. Fair enough, it was dissent, red card, it's over. This is the first time he's ever done this. Every article I read makes my blood boil. This is one of the most talented players in the world. He's getting compared to 10 year old kids. FFS, people have done worse, much worse, and have gotten fuck all as punishment.
I am just worried how it affects his confidence. I really am. You can say he's a great professional, but if people were writing so much BS about me, I know how I would feel. I really am worried, if it would just shatter his confidence.
I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment he's getting. Fair enough, it was dissent, red card, it's over. This is the first time he's ever done this. Every article I read makes my blood boil. This is one of the most talented players in the world. He's getting compared to 10 year old kids. FFS, people have done worse, much worse, and have gotten fuck all as punishment.
I am just worried how it affects his confidence. I really am. You can say he's a great professional, but if people were writing so much BS about me, I know how I would feel. I really am worried, if it would just shatter his confidence.
Re: Liverpool Thread
Indeed. I am all for new rules and everything, but imposing them at the expense of one of the most talented and passionate footballers around is just wrong.
And the media circus does make me sick. I can't believe Andy Gray is the only one who has any perspective on the matter. Others are just jumping on the bandwagon. They're talking as if he's committed murder.
And still, what will Ashley Cole get, who's actions were infinitely times worse than what Mash did.
I still fucking love. I hope all this gets him even more fired up against Arsenal, and he wraps up both Flamini and Fabregas in his pocket.
Indeed. I am all for new rules and everything, but imposing them at the expense of one of the most talented and passionate footballers around is just wrong.
And the media circus does make me sick. I can't believe Andy Gray is the only one who has any perspective on the matter. Others are just jumping on the bandwagon. They're talking as if he's committed murder.
And still, what will Ashley Cole get, who's actions were infinitely times worse than what Mash did.
I still fucking love. I hope all this gets him even more fired up against Arsenal, and he wraps up both Flamini and Fabregas in his pocket.
Re: Liverpool Thread
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7314834.stm
Giving him a 2 match ban is really taking the piss. What did Adebayor get last year after his action in the Carling Cup?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7314834.stm
Giving him a 2 match ban is really taking the piss. What did Adebayor get last year after his action in the Carling Cup?