quiet_riot
Welcome To Manchester
I imagine that these (excellent) ideas are just too complicated to properly implement in time for the next installment of EA profit maker.
Let's FIFA 11/12/13: Making the perfect football game.
- Thread starter romagnoli
- Start date
Can't because of licensing rules.
Murkurial
League 1
- 21 August 2008
I know it's relatively small compared to the more glaring gameplay issues, but I always wanted to wear the red top and black shorts for United back in FIFA 09. I really hope they sort that out in the near future. Again, nothing huge, but it'd be awesome to be able to mix and match.
Do you know what it is specifically about the licenses that allows PES to do it and not FIFA?
Dusse
Banned
PES don't do it. They did, until those greedy bastards came up with the idea that they wanted money for every single combination if I remember it correctly.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
It's an easy way to stop people clamouring for something they don't want to include, I mean how are any of us plebs going to know it's a licensing issue or not beyond taking them at their word? Not saying it's not true but it's unlikely we would ever know any different.
andythom77
"He deserves a kicking"
like placebo says, it'll be an excuse used by EA so that they don't have to include it, i would rather they spent their time improving the rest of the game.
Dusse
Banned
Well, EA is not the ones who said that, but rather Konami when they had to remove that feature.
andythom77
"He deserves a kicking"
i did not know that, thanks for pointing that out
If you know big companies, you know they don't like at all people toying with their product. If Nike wants the barcelona kit to be displayed only in "official" combinations, EA and Konami can't do a thing about it. It's a marketing thing, they want the "yellow" socks to match the yellow shirt and don't want you to do combinations they think won't look great.
About the kits getting dirty, it could also go down lo licensing (big companies are like stupid kids suddenly becomen kings) because technically it was already done years and years ago.
About the kits getting dirty, it could also go down lo licensing (big companies are like stupid kids suddenly becomen kings) because technically it was already done years and years ago.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
Real time pitch wear and getting dirt on the kits and boots would add so much to the feel of the game, as it is players seem to float and every thing is so damn perfect and sterile...
andythom77
"He deserves a kicking"
yeah it would be very nice to see
Everything I've ever heard or read about it was down to licensing issues. Just like you can't switch a stadium in FIFA that is a licensed stadium.
Placebo brings up a good point in that we may be being lied to, but I am pretty sure there is some complicated law somewhere that makes it so.
Even showing the betting website sponsors is illegal in the European version of the games for France etc. Where as the US version has all included.
Was that for old gen? It seems to me that everything about FIFA and PES were better on old gen.
Dusse
Banned
StuartCulli
College Dropout
- 25 July 2006
- Newcastle United
If that gets implemented it would go too far the other way. Players absolutely caked in mud.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
That's a good point actually. Because in PES you can assign any real-life stadium to any team, but in Fifa you can't. EA said it was a licensing issue, but it's something that clearly doesn't affect Konami.
StuartCulli
College Dropout
- 25 July 2006
- Newcastle United
Here's a random question; noticed that Liverpool don't have Carlsberg on their shirts in European competition. That the same for European versions of Fifa?
Re: the kit combinations...is there something different about US licensing vs. European? Because in NCAA Football (US kind) 2010 you can flip around each teams' helmets, jerseys, pants, and even shoe color, any combo you want no matter how ugly it is. Interesting that it's not a licensing issue there, but it is in FIFA?
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Anyone rememeber the God awful FIFA 2004? I loved the way players shirts shorts and especially socks got really muddy
that was pretty much the only good thing about that game
Why do EA, and Konami who had this back in the day on PEs take stuff like this out?
Everything about FIFA was better last gen?
Maybe not gameplay wise - but attention to detail was. The crowd chants were better, kits got dirty, pitches wore down, you could schedule friendlies, etc...
Maybe Japanese law is different than Euro or North America? Who knows really - both companies just blow smoke.
Actually it's not... In France you can't advertise alcohol and betting sites, but it seems to only be for European competitions? Also, Carling doesn't get licensed for the SPL.
- Thread starter
- #116
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
A new one. I've not followed the template I'm afraid..
It took me until today to realise what EA had in mind with L2 and R2 (LT and RT). I've spent so long not making the connection, which is silly really. I've come at it from a football game perspective so didn't see it. They're used in the same way as in a driving game - one makes you go faster; one makes you go slower. But racing games do something else.
They let you accelerate a little bit, keeping the foot half down as you go around a gentle corner, or braking slightly to make sure you're at the best speed going into a turn. It's not just on/off; it's a lot deeper than that.
The most elegant thing about it is that any casual gamer can pick that idea up. Everybody knows how a car works. The more you put your foot down on the accelerator, the faster you go. The less you press it, the more gradually you speed up.
On the pad? Squeeze the trigger to go faster, but go too fast and you can't turn very well. Even children can pick that idea up with ease:
Simple idea then, everyone understands it and everyone knows how to squeeze harder or softer.
So let's do this with FIFA. The further you squeeze R2/RT, the faster your player runs.
0% = normal left stick jogging - better at turning, closer control for responding to challenges, less stamina used up.
100% = sprinting - tires your player out quickly, momentum is more of a problem, bigger touches, but top speed.
And anything in between. Pretty much the same animations, though maybe with some new ones in between if it is a better visual clue for what speed you're travelling at.
So why use the trigger for this, and what will less-than-100% sprinting do?
- You can walk but you can't (slightly) run.
At the moment you can choose a speed from standing still to jogging, just by pressing the left stick gradually more in a direction. You can't use this method with sprinting though, which is why you can't currently do this in FIFA 10. It wouldn't make sense because if you were trying to run slightly faster than jogging, one slip of the thumb and your player is standing still. Using R2 makes so much sense. You can also use a sharp press of R2 to knock the ball on a bit further, like a more intuitive right stick touch. I think pressing a direction with the left stick (which is what you use for movement after all!) and squeezing and releasing R2 feels like a much more natural and tactile way of pushing the ball past a defender than using the right stick.
- It will slow the speed of the game down without making the 100% sprint speed unnaturally slow.
A lot of people have said that FIFA plays too fast, even on slow settings. Meanwhile a lot of people think the running speed of players is fine. I don't disagree. I just think that players are sprinting around everywhere when they don't have to, and when they probably shouldn't. I also think that the current jogging speed is a bit too fast, which is a deliberate choice by EA to reduce the gap in speed between jog and sprint. Slow the jog down a bit and give us more agility when dribbling with just the left stick.
Give us basic tricks on the left stick as well, for that matter - the simple shoulder drop, for example (L2+tap RS sideways), or the two-foot shimmy (the 'Peter Beardsley' as I know it, see 2:24) that takes a sideways touch with the right foot and a forward touch with the left foot. Little things that help good players instinctively get out of trouble in tight spaces without being a premeditated trick like an elastico. The right stick isn't all that instinctive or reflexive for me. There's lag when you use it because you have to complete the gesture before it starts. Mapping a few fundamental moves like these onto the left stick is a lot more impulsive, organic and intuitive.
- It makes a lot of sense for defenders as well.
You can change your speed to match the runner; you can catch up with a jogging attacker without zooming past them; you can control your position on the pitch a lot more accurately, and be in control of your own momentum in a game where momentum is so important.
-It means EA can make acceleration and deceleration more believable without dragging the speed to a crawl.
Because the gap between jogging and sprinting isn't just a huge digital step up, EA can look at making the 100% sprint a lot less useful - something to use less often than currently because it eats your stamina bar up and you can't slow down as quickly. Instead of just sprinting, we can have all these intermediate speeds which bring their own advantages.
This would mean that players cannot sprint pressure as effectively as they have to think about how fast they should go!
I think using L2 to move gradually slower than a jog makes sense as well, as an alternative to changing how far you push the stick. Certainly I find L2 jockeying very useful at the moment but I often found myself wishing I could just press jockey slightly to slow my speed a bit, still using the outermost edge of the analog stick to aim my run.
What does everybody think? Will this work fine? Or will it tire the fingers?
I don't mind if it's just mapped to pushing the left stick less, but I think it's easier to press R2 less than aim the stick slightly. It's not so bad in FPS games where momentum doesn't screw up your aiming so much. I definitely, definitely think something needs to be done to encourage the game to move more slowly though, and making sprint a lot more precious rather than something to be held at all times seems the best way.
They let you accelerate a little bit, keeping the foot half down as you go around a gentle corner, or braking slightly to make sure you're at the best speed going into a turn. It's not just on/off; it's a lot deeper than that.
The most elegant thing about it is that any casual gamer can pick that idea up. Everybody knows how a car works. The more you put your foot down on the accelerator, the faster you go. The less you press it, the more gradually you speed up.
On the pad? Squeeze the trigger to go faster, but go too fast and you can't turn very well. Even children can pick that idea up with ease:
Simple idea then, everyone understands it and everyone knows how to squeeze harder or softer.
So let's do this with FIFA. The further you squeeze R2/RT, the faster your player runs.
0% = normal left stick jogging - better at turning, closer control for responding to challenges, less stamina used up.
100% = sprinting - tires your player out quickly, momentum is more of a problem, bigger touches, but top speed.
And anything in between. Pretty much the same animations, though maybe with some new ones in between if it is a better visual clue for what speed you're travelling at.
So why use the trigger for this, and what will less-than-100% sprinting do?
- You can walk but you can't (slightly) run.
At the moment you can choose a speed from standing still to jogging, just by pressing the left stick gradually more in a direction. You can't use this method with sprinting though, which is why you can't currently do this in FIFA 10. It wouldn't make sense because if you were trying to run slightly faster than jogging, one slip of the thumb and your player is standing still. Using R2 makes so much sense. You can also use a sharp press of R2 to knock the ball on a bit further, like a more intuitive right stick touch. I think pressing a direction with the left stick (which is what you use for movement after all!) and squeezing and releasing R2 feels like a much more natural and tactile way of pushing the ball past a defender than using the right stick.
- It will slow the speed of the game down without making the 100% sprint speed unnaturally slow.
A lot of people have said that FIFA plays too fast, even on slow settings. Meanwhile a lot of people think the running speed of players is fine. I don't disagree. I just think that players are sprinting around everywhere when they don't have to, and when they probably shouldn't. I also think that the current jogging speed is a bit too fast, which is a deliberate choice by EA to reduce the gap in speed between jog and sprint. Slow the jog down a bit and give us more agility when dribbling with just the left stick.
Give us basic tricks on the left stick as well, for that matter - the simple shoulder drop, for example (L2+tap RS sideways), or the two-foot shimmy (the 'Peter Beardsley' as I know it, see 2:24) that takes a sideways touch with the right foot and a forward touch with the left foot. Little things that help good players instinctively get out of trouble in tight spaces without being a premeditated trick like an elastico. The right stick isn't all that instinctive or reflexive for me. There's lag when you use it because you have to complete the gesture before it starts. Mapping a few fundamental moves like these onto the left stick is a lot more impulsive, organic and intuitive.
- It makes a lot of sense for defenders as well.
You can change your speed to match the runner; you can catch up with a jogging attacker without zooming past them; you can control your position on the pitch a lot more accurately, and be in control of your own momentum in a game where momentum is so important.
-It means EA can make acceleration and deceleration more believable without dragging the speed to a crawl.
Because the gap between jogging and sprinting isn't just a huge digital step up, EA can look at making the 100% sprint a lot less useful - something to use less often than currently because it eats your stamina bar up and you can't slow down as quickly. Instead of just sprinting, we can have all these intermediate speeds which bring their own advantages.
This would mean that players cannot sprint pressure as effectively as they have to think about how fast they should go!
I think using L2 to move gradually slower than a jog makes sense as well, as an alternative to changing how far you push the stick. Certainly I find L2 jockeying very useful at the moment but I often found myself wishing I could just press jockey slightly to slow my speed a bit, still using the outermost edge of the analog stick to aim my run.
What does everybody think? Will this work fine? Or will it tire the fingers?
I don't mind if it's just mapped to pushing the left stick less, but I think it's easier to press R2 less than aim the stick slightly. It's not so bad in FPS games where momentum doesn't screw up your aiming so much. I definitely, definitely think something needs to be done to encourage the game to move more slowly though, and making sprint a lot more precious rather than something to be held at all times seems the best way.
I think as someone mentioned the introduction of a 'Hardcore' mode would be a good solution.
Manual is basically hidden. I know countless friends that claim to be experts at FIFA, and when I ask them what settings they use they havent a clue what I am talking about.
If they had a top level Hardcode menu where all the modes just lived under this menu it might tempt others to try it.
Also maybe having some kind of level up thing like in MW2 where you can see someone is prestige level might add to FIFA. Where you can only achieve that level once you go all manual.
Having said all that I would definitely keep Assisted settings etc for casual and very young players. For instance my son likes nothing more than scoring with Rooney, but he would just give up on the game if every time he was in on goal he missed.
Manual is basically hidden. I know countless friends that claim to be experts at FIFA, and when I ask them what settings they use they havent a clue what I am talking about.
If they had a top level Hardcode menu where all the modes just lived under this menu it might tempt others to try it.
Also maybe having some kind of level up thing like in MW2 where you can see someone is prestige level might add to FIFA. Where you can only achieve that level once you go all manual.
Having said all that I would definitely keep Assisted settings etc for casual and very young players. For instance my son likes nothing more than scoring with Rooney, but he would just give up on the game if every time he was in on goal he missed.
I don't know why anyone would want to do that anyway. For instance when im Middlesbrough, i wouldn't want Anfield to be my default stadium as it would just be naff and unrealistic.
While were on the subject of Stadiums. Why don't EA outsource the work for creating stadiums to another company?
There's only been 1 new real stadium in the last 3 Fifa iterations. I think lack of development time is the main issue. EA could probably get the licences for most stadia as long as they're prepared to pay for them.
If another company did the work time wouldn't be an issue, EA could then sell the stadiums as DLC and even make a profit. There must be plenty of companies which have the skills to use 3ds max plus any other software required and can obtain the photo's, etc.. needed to model a stadium.
If this was done, the possibilities would be endless. Many stadiums could be added and even disc space wouldn't be an issue because they would be sold as DLC.
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
A good example is Arsenal's Emirates & Benfica's Estadio da Luz, which are very similar in design. In Fifa it would be nice to use the Emirates as Benfica's home ground. In PES is use Benfica's stadium as Arsenal's home ground. It would be nice to have the option, that's all.
I agree, this is something I've been thinking about too. Stadia as DLC could be a real money-spinner. We get map packs for FPS games, and new tracks for Forza, so why not stadia? I'd love to be able to fill my Hard Drive full of real-life grounds, it would add a lot to the experience and realism.
EA have said that it is a huge amount of work to model one stadium, but is it really? It's just a static 3D model after all.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
Was looking at the cool Excel WC spread sheet and was thinking it would be nice to be able to print out the records for your MM career, with all the facts and figures for your management record and players such as Played, scored etc. The more detail the better...
But then I am a bit of a stat freak...
But then I am a bit of a stat freak...