FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

Another totally fluffed shot just now, this time from me rather than the AI.

Look how he's struggling to keep his balance after hitting it - he just keeps falling for a couple of seconds, and it contextually makes sense.

I just hope the "miskicks" in PES 2020 are something like this.

 
Jimi_Zuko said:
why wouldnt that be realistic, in real life leicester won the premier league, after witnessing that anything is possible.
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Well when you put it like that i agree.
But in the game having a team like Newcastle and playing on the highest difficulty,it would make more sense to fight for relegation or being somewhere in the middle instead of fighting for a Europa League spot.
Many people are saying that it's not challenging enough even at the hardest difficulty when you learn to play the game a little.It surely wouldn't be better if it was more difficult just by increasing cpu cheating,but i'm just saying.
Although Chris said that he has made some major signings for the team that normally wouldn't happen,so i guess it makes more sense to be able to have good results in this case.
 
Another moment from FIFA that you wouldn't see in PES - in certain moments, you will only ever see one outcome (i.e. challenging the keeper for the ball).

Here, the keeper is falling from a leap with the ball in his grasp, hits his own defender's shoulder and the ball just flies off.


And this counter... Playing against the AI on PES, the defensive line is ALWAYS back and in position. I can't recall ever getting a one-on-one with the keeper from some intelligent passing.

Possibly my favourite FIFA 19 goal ever.

 
Jimi_Zuko said:
why wouldnt that be realistic, in real life leicester won the premier league, after witnessing that anything is possible.
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Dennis_87 said:
Well when you put it like that i agree. [...] Chris said that he has made some major signings for the team that normally wouldn't happen,so i guess it makes more sense to be able to have good results in this case.
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Well here's a crazy thing... One of those "unrealistic signings" I mentioned has just signed for a Premier League team of a (fairly) close calibre to Newcastle, I'd say...

BBC SPORT: West Ham set to sign Eintracht Frankfurt striker

The transfer world in FIFA is pretty great - it's just a shame that you have the complete immersion-breaker of teams not playing their star players for no apparent reason...
 
Chris Davies said:
That being said, this is my second season, and I've managed to put together a great team balance after convincing a few promising players to join (which EA actually patched out a few patches ago - great players are much less likely to join not-great teams now, but I made these transfers before the patch)! :D

I do wish it was a harder grind - in the old days of PES you'd be grinding for 2-3 seasons to make a poor team good, then another few seasons to make them top-five. But I think those days are gone because nobody has the patience, sadly.
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Wait, is this patch a real thing. I mean, I just signed like 6 players who really shouldn't be signing with my team. Couldn't help myself in the moment but now my CM is too easy again and I'm kicking myself.

Totally agree about the lack of a grind. Between sliders and some strict rules on myself (which I've now broken, see above) I was having a great challenge for a couple seasons, but now I'm cruising through the EPL again with an unworthy team.

Definitely miss the grind.

Chris Davies said:
Another moment from FIFA that you wouldn't see in PES - in certain moments, you will only ever see one outcome (i.e. challenging the keeper for the ball).

Here, the keeper is falling from a leap with the ball in his grasp, hits his own defender's shoulder and the ball just flies off.


And this counter... Playing against the AI on PES, the defensive line is ALWAYS back and in position. I can't recall ever getting a one-on-one with the keeper from some intelligent passing.

Possibly my favourite FIFA 19 goal ever.

Here, the keeper is falling from a leap with the ball in his grasp, hits his own defender's shoulder and the ball just flies off.


And this counter... Playing against the AI on PES, the defensive line is ALWAYS back and in position. I can't recall ever getting a one-on-one with the keeper from some intelligent passing.

Possibly my favourite FIFA 19 goal ever.

Click to expand...

PES's defensive positioning was a big reason I gave up last year. They drop back, leaving ridiculous space in the midfield. Maybe it's been patched but that drove me nuts.

That said, that video of yours actually shows one of my biggest peeves with FIFA's backline, where they'll have a CB and FB mark the same striker, leaving an attacker wide open. Your video isn't as bad as it can be, but still I really wish we could have more intelligent backline AI.
 
Chris Davies said:
it's just a shame that you have the complete immersion-breaker of teams not playing their star players for no apparent reason
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Yeah this is very annoying.It's because the AI don't think that these matches are important enough to play it's best players which is ridiculous.
I remember in Fifa 16 pc version there was a fix for this where you could change the values of match importance in cmsettings.ini or something like this.
They say they're gonna improve CM for 20 so maybe they'll take care of that bug,but i wouldn't bet my money on it.
Also i wouldn't say that the transfer world in Fifa is pretty great.
Too many star players changing teams all the time.
Having the ability to change transfer frequency like it will be the case in Pes 20 this time is a good option to have.
 
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Tonight I played some FUT and some myClub to try and understand where "pro" players' feedback was coming from.

FUT 19 is truly the worst football game ever. It's up there with bad PS2 football games. It has to be played to be believed. It's not just "fast". It's Mario Strikers stuff.

No wonder so many people are divided when it comes to FIFA. If you've only ever played it online, and never with sliders, it's beyond atrocious. You'd never know it had potential.

myClub is a better game - but equally (and I mean equally) terrible at emulating football. It's nothing like football. It's panicked button presses and non-stop pressing every game. No time for thought, tactics, intelligence. Just hammer X a bit and wait for a through-pass.

I can't believe how, when you take both games online, they become SO MUCH WORSE than if you play them offline. I'm really shocked.
 
Chris Davies said:
Tonight I played some FUT and some myClub to try and understand where "pro" players' feedback was coming from.

FUT 19 is truly the worst football game ever. It's up there with bad PS2 football games. It has to be played to be believed. It's not just "fast". It's Mario Strikers stuff.

No wonder so many people are divided when it comes to FIFA. If you've only ever played it online, and never with sliders, it's beyond atrocious. You'd never know it had potential.

myClub is a better game - but equally (and I mean equally) terrible at emulating football. It's nothing like football. It's panicked button presses and non-stop pressing every game. No time for thought, tactics, intelligence. Just hammer X a bit and wait for a through-pass.

I can't believe how, when you take both games online, they become SO MUCH WORSE than if you play them offline. I'm really shocked.
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Yes - but it can take a long time to figure that out because when you start out in MyClub or FUT you're always thinking "I lost that last game because tactics, squad, etc".

There comes a point when you get the good players but realise the game is flawed. The problem now is that you've invested so much time into it, learnt and discussed the game so much and you're logging in for daily bonuses habitually that you cannot give it up easily.

If you dislike one game, you move to the other. By the time you work out how bad that is, the new game releases. Rinse and repeat, year after year.

I hate MyClub - I lost 3 years to it - yet I still created a thread to get me back into it.

I know that done right these games can be a joy to play and give you great emotions - probably that "hit" is what i'm after but i got to keep telling myself its just not worth it.

Anyways, sorry to interject here - I've obviously replaced daily logins with daily evo-web posts.
 
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Chris Davies said:
Tonight I played some FUT and some myClub to try and understand where "pro" players' feedback was coming from.

FUT 19 is truly the worst football game ever. It's up there with bad PS2 football games. It has to be played to be believed. It's not just "fast". It's Mario Strikers stuff.

No wonder so many people are divided when it comes to FIFA. If you've only ever played it online, and never with sliders, it's beyond atrocious. You'd never know it had potential.

myClub is a better game - but equally (and I mean equally) terrible at emulating football. It's nothing like football. It's panicked button presses and non-stop pressing every game. No time for thought, tactics, intelligence. Just hammer X a bit and wait for a through-pass.

I can't believe how, when you take both games online, they become SO MUCH WORSE than if you play them offline. I'm really shocked.
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It's unreal how bad it is. Take the worst of single player gameplay, then magnify it with the chemistry boosts and super high rated players, then add in server issues, oh then don't forget about the asshole you're playing against.

It's such a difference experience than playing this game single player, let alone with sliders. And that's why you can't just take everything that the FUT crowd is saying and apply it directly to your single player CM experience. It can almost be like we're talking about different games.
 
There is an updated version of this virtua bet football game that looks even more realistic.

But i think that this kind of realism is many years away.
Because the concept till today is to use precanned animations and not human motion engines.
The most hopeful sign is an rpg called EXANIMA. This is the first game that uses real time plysics in every aspect, even in battle creating the most realistic and rewarding fighting experience.


So hopefully soccer games will ditch this old school approach of precanned motion capture and develop a nice engine based on body physics, like euphoria (used in GTA 4 and 5). The difficult part is to implement a lot of data per occasion so there will be a natural outcome with perfect footplanting and without stiches between animations.

Regarding ball physics, even today there is no such game that represent real world physics adequately.
Pes 19 ball is decent, but somewhat unaturally linear and bowling-ish. FIFA ball is completely irrelevant to player motion, also linear and floaty.

Finally regarding AI. This is the most difficult part. To imitade 22 human AI (11 of each team) with different stats and personality. All these separate AI must be combined in a team "choreography" act individually but also as a team, as an organized whole. This requires a lot of research and improvement.


As for comparing PES and FIFA.
Fifa has more detailed and smooth animation, but the animation itself is very bad and somewhat shaky and doesnt fit.
Pes has more stiched animation, with a lot of sliding and teleporting, but better and more natural animations.
 
flokiman said:
There is an updated version of this virtua bet football game that looks even more realistic.

But i think that this kind of realism is many years away.
Because the concept till today is to use precanned animations and not human motion engines.
The most hopeful sign is an rpg called EXANIMA. This is the first game that uses real time plysics in every aspect, even in battle creating the most realistic and rewarding fighting experience.


So hopefully soccer games will ditch this old school approach of precanned motion capture and develop a nice engine based on body physics, like euphoria (used in GTA 4 and 5). The difficult part is to implement a lot of data per occasion so there will be a natural outcome with perfect footplanting and without stiches between animations.

Regarding ball physics, even today there is no such game that represent real world physics adequately.
Pes 19 ball is decent, but somewhat unaturally linear and bowling-ish. FIFA ball is completely irrelevant to player motion, also linear and floaty.

Finally regarding AI. This is the most difficult part. To imitade 22 human AI (11 of each team) with different stats and personality. All these separate AI must be combined in a team "choreography" act individually but also as a team, as an organized whole. This requires a lot of research and improvement.


As for comparing PES and FIFA.
Fifa has more detailed and smooth animation, but the animation itself is very bad and somewhat shaky and doesnt fit.
Pes has more stiched animation, with a lot of sliding and teleporting, but better and more natural animations.
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Damn us fools, loving such a complicated sport! :D
 
So when I’m browsing and reading the other threads... I had a thought.

Is fifa16 the others game 2017 version?! :)
Best fifa and pes beeing the ‘16 respectively ‘17 versions?!
 
PRO_TOO said:
So when I’m browsing and reading the other threads... I had a thought.

Is fifa16 the others game 2017 version?! :)
Best fifa and pes beeing the ‘16 respectively ‘17 versions?!
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A modded fifa 16 looks really (havent played it) but for me the console version of Fifa 16 (loved playing then) isn't as good now as then.
Still have it on my HDD, played it a couple of months back,and I really didn't see the beauty of it!
Still think Fifa 19 is miles better (un modded and on console).
 
PRO_TOO said:
So when I’m browsing and reading the other threads... I had a thought.

Is fifa16 the others game 2017 version?! :)
Best fifa and pes beeing the ‘16 respectively ‘17 versions?!
Click to expand...


I'd have to say "no"?...

Mainly because personally, I think the best PES versions were PES 13, PES 5 and then I'd have to go back in time, because there are other titles I loved back they are from way back in time (like WE3FE).

PES 2017 wasn't all that special to me TBH.

And I know I've said this many many times, but 2012-2013 was such a GREAT season in terms of football games for me. PES 2013 and FIFA 13 were both very solid, very neat games. I used to play FIFA 13 on PS3 online (I think the Mode was World League or something like that, no FUT - never played FUT) and then a fully modded PES 2013 on PC.

Dem times deh...
 
rockstrongo said:
A modded fifa 16 looks really (havent played it) but for me the console version of Fifa 16 (loved playing then) isn't as good now as then.
Still have it on my HDD, played it a couple of months back,and I really didn't see the beauty of it!
Still think Fifa 19 is miles better (un modded and on console).
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Can your PC not handle FIFA 16?
It's a pretty old game. If it does, I can help you modding it and you'll see the sexiness of it. Not just graphically. But gameplay-wise. SPECIALLY gameplay-wise.
 
Chuny said:
Can your PC not handle FIFA 16?
It's a pretty old game. If it does, I can help you modding it and you'll see the sexiness of it. Not just graphically. But gameplay-wise. SPECIALLY gameplay-wise.
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Oh Brother,i hardly use pc at home,so I got a pretty standard laptop (mainly for Pes 3-4-5-6)
But from what I've seen,Fifa 16 in pc looks and plays great.
I have no doubt it plays amazing.
I'm in the world of iPads (both at home and work wise)
Ps appreciate it Chuny
 
rockstrongo said:
A modded fifa 16 looks really (havent played it) but for me the console version of Fifa 16 (loved playing then) isn't as good now as then.
Still have it on my HDD, played it a couple of months back,and I really didn't see the beauty of it!
Still think Fifa 19 is miles better (un modded and on console).
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if youre on ps4 i would always be down for a few friendly games of 16 :)
 
Chris Davies said:
Sometimes I think I understand gaming, but. There's this one guy I know, who turns on his PlayStation every night, plays FIFA 19 - specifically Career Mode - and his scorelines are broadcast via the "Friends" menu.

Every game he plays (as Everton), he wins by ridiculous scorelines:

TILXIpX.jpg


But he comes back and plays every single night, and wins 7, 8, 9 nil - then tells everyone how great the game is.

Isn't it incredibly boring?

And how as a company do you keep gamers like him happy, and gamers like us happy, with one game? (Well, I guess he can just keep playing on Amateur or whatever but... Seriously... I don't get it!)
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Remember this guy?

Just noticed his current game, and he's playing against himself. Or with a friend. And winning 9-0, this time.

Pv7mJFh.jpg


What the fuck is the point? Seriously?
 
Chris Davies said:
Remember this guy?

Just noticed his current game, and he's playing against himself. Or with a friend. And winning 9-0, this time.

Pv7mJFh.jpg


What the fuck is the point? Seriously?
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I can only imagine is something down the line of God Mode. When on GTA or other games sometimes people used to switch some immortality cheat and just walk around demolishing everything.. thats the only way I can "understand" this..
 
Chris Davies said:
I mean, just thinking of one example from the top of my head... Your players are your slaves in the ML. If you don't play them, they don't care, they'll happily rot in the reserves and then sign a new contract if you want them to. Immediately you feel like they're just words on a screen and not people.

Oh, also, form arrows are completely random. Player scores a hat-trick? Oh no, his form arrow (which is supposed to represent his form) is now at the worst possible level!! Welcome to topsy-turvy land!!

I get why you'd play it for the gameplay. In-fact, that's what I'm doing right now. But for the mode? You would either have to prefer a simplified experience in your football career games, or just be mad, frankly. The guys annoyed at the lack of change in FIFA are right to be angry, but they still have something with twice the depth and then some.

Anyway, future PES/FIFA comparisons go here please.
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You are right.
I don´t say that ML doesn´t urgently need a rework.
When I was playing FIFA a couple of years ago, I actually enjoyed career mode.
Some features are better there, some are better in PES´ ML.
About slaves, (unless I misunderstood you) tbh, I find it quite annoying when players, that have to hit the bench quite often as they are set for subbing only, keep nagging about their low playing time and if you don´t let them play, they might be willing to leave your club.
I don´t know which PES release had that, but I´m glad they removed it.

There surely has to be more depth and the form arrows shouldn´t be random.
At least you have those blinking arrows on some players who have a good form over a time period and keep developing better and better, the more you let them play.
I´d love to have some little story behind it...like a player rivalry or something.
I can´t stand FIFA´s gameplay, but I´d love to play the journey, as I´m interested in the story.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
I find it quite annoying when players, that have to hit the bench quite often as they are set for subbing only, keep nagging about their low playing time and if you don´t let them play, they might be willing to leave your club.
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Surely though, that's how it should be. Otherwise you're playing a player-collecting game, like the mobile PES game "PES Collection" or whatever it's called (it's a separate mobile game to PES and PES Manager). That's not what a manager mode is supposed to be.

I do think there needs to be some logic that goes "an 18 year old you promoted from your youth squad who's played twice in his life, doesn't demand you play him every week" - or at least, most of the time. Admittedly, this happens in FIFA too often.

But here's the thing, I bought Benteke for my FIFA Newcastle team and he's just happy to have a contract. No demands. When I play him instead of Haller (who's just signed for a PL team in real life, the transfers are great in comparison to PES)... Haller gets annoyed, because he knows he's better. I love that.

chiefrocka4real said:
I can´t stand FIFA´s gameplay, but I´d love to play the journey, as I´m interested in the story.
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Watch an episode of British soap Eastenders and imagine there's a football on the floor in every scene and that the end of the show is "the young lad now plays for Real Madrid". That's The Journey for you.

You really aren't missing out... I wouldn't worry about not being able to play it. :D
 
chiefrocka4real said:
I find it quite annoying when players, that have to hit the bench quite often as they are set for subbing only, keep nagging about their low playing time and if you don´t let them play, they might be willing to leave your club.
I don´t know which PES release had that, but I´m glad they removed it.
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I think it should be a happy middle. If I buy a good player and put him on the bench, he should not be happy to just sit there. His Happiness level should drop. If he doesnt play whole season, or plays very rarely, he should request transfer to another club. But constant nagging is a bit much.
What I loved (and hated in the same time) was just random events, where your player just decided to leave, without any notice or possibility to negotiate.
I played Parma on Pes18 and bought A.Donis, greek fella. I got promoted and my whole attack was depending on him, as I didnt have much money. For the money I had I bought few other players for different positions, to give a bit of a boost before Serie A season. I didnt bother with attack, coz I had him.
Day before transfer window closed I jist got a message that he left. Had no money or replacement. Thought Im gonna fucking explode. :LOL:
But looking back at it - it was a nice twist that threw a nice spanner into my Master League works.
 
Chris Davies said:
Surely though, that's how it should be. Otherwise you're playing a player-collecting game, like the mobile PES game "PES Collection" or whatever it's called (it's a separate mobile game to PES and PES Manager). That's not what a manager mode is supposed to be.

I do think there needs to be some logic that goes "an 18 year old you promoted from your youth squad who's played twice in his life, doesn't demand you play him every week" - or at least, most of the time. Admittedly, this happens in FIFA too often.

But here's the thing, I bought Benteke for my FIFA Newcastle team and he's just happy to have a contract. No demands. When I play him instead of Haller (who's just signed for a PL team in real life, the transfers are great in comparison to PES)... Haller gets annoyed, because he knows he's better. I love that.
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Yes, that´s how it should be! I agree.
But it wasn´t properly implemented, as as you say...the youngsters were acting up already.
I think that was in PES too, but I don´t remember at what release.


Chris Davies said:
Watch an episode of British soap Eastenders and imagine there's a football on the floor in every scene and that the end of the show is "the young lad now plays for Real Madrid". That's The Journey for you.

You really aren't missing out... I wouldn't worry about not being able to play it. :D
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:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Alright^^
 
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