FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

shumway said:
The Switch version of Fifa still uses Ignite. Would be interesting if there are significant differences in gameplay. Every now and then I think about purchasing a used copy, but as I am permanently jumping between Fifa, PES 19 and 18 (for PS4) this year, another football game would bring me straight to the madhouse...
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:D Same!
 
i have to come back and add some context to my latest videos i put online (that one FIFA19 and the other 2 PES2019 videos) and to both games i played back to back the last week.

i play both games on FUMA (same settings like 20 min and slow speed).
Huuuuge difference i feel when controling both games on manual.
2308-d638a4ea66f1b19c7573825545c58bb28602bc1d.gif
;)

to make it short, in FIFA19 i feel input is different nearly every time i hit the buttons. like the game is rewarding some passes with a higher percentage and adding some speed or taking it off! its crazy sometimes. and no, it has nothing to do with how i position my player or if he was off balance. its in the gameplay input mechanics i think!
in PES 2019, every input i give is done exactly how i pressed the button! its much more precise!! EVERY time i press a button.
i feel this not only when playing short ground passes but it really hits when i do long (high) crosses (side changes, etc.)! plus on the FIFA side there is always some speed issues (same as with headers that sometimes look silly fast)! sometimes the ball is on speed, sometimes its slow and floaty! the game desides somehow.
it is really hard to describe for me. but its there, i'm sure!!

Edit: maybe I’m not “normal” in that regard. I feel oh so slightly differences in lag, fps and what not. That’s why I don’t play online.
I’m very sensitive reg. that.
 
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Chris Davies said:
It's just so hard to love the skateyness and the jelly-like over-the-top ragdoll nature of the game. PES is (by comparison) solid - even if that leads to it being formulaic.

Don't get me wrong, FIFA more closely recreates modern football in my opinion (to play, not to look at) - with individual skill having much more impact on the outcome of a game, and with the variety in all things (particularly shooting).

You see videos like the one @slamsoze posted in the PES 2019 thread today, of the AI scoring the exact same goal, game after game after game (and the AI's first-time passing is through the roof post-DP4, which is my personal pet hate that I can't get past) - and you realise that, whether FIFA is good or not, PES just isn't a good game against the AI (whether it feels great on the ball or not).

Going back to PES 2017 has made me realise that 2018 and 2019 have tried to open up gameplay and add more freedom of movement, which has forced the AI to become a perfect ping-ponging same-goal-scoring machine. Going back to PES 2017, you can feel the rails that have cursed PES since literally the first PSX games. But the balance is 1000x better. In my opinion.

I honestly don't think that (up to now) they've had a big enough development team to create an AI that can realistically cope with how many more variables there are when you make movement as organic as they've done with 2018 and 2019 (hence why they use the same patterns of movement all the time, i.e. the low-cross goal) - but they don't care about AI. These changes are for the benefit of myClub etc... (The same applies to FIFA by the way, but sliders save the day.)

I'm really enjoying my current FIFA 19 career mode - but at least once a game I'll see something jelly-legged and silly, and the AI will move forward like it's a basketball court, and... It doesn't completely spoil it, but, it does a little bit.

Your ability to enjoy the game depends entirely on your willingness to "look the other way" when that stuff happens. I can, because I don't feel like it (usually) affects the gameplay too much, and because they're not cheats (just a horrible defect of the engine that affects the AI too) - whereas PES making Huddersfield ping-pong and score the same low-cross goal that every other team scores against you... It permanently affects gameplay, and I can't "look the other way" from that.

I've said it before but Frostbite is ruining everything - not just FIFA. There are reports from guys developing games like Anthem and Dragon Age, decrying the thing. If development of the old engine hadn't stopped at FIFA 16, I think it would have been incredible by now.
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Well put Chris. As it is I find both games utterly mediocre. They simply require too much suspension of disbelief in key areas. Pes with the maddening cheating,grossly shit master league and utterly formulaic cpu play. Fifa brings a bit more variation but will also cheat its ass off disregarding all stats and can be robotic as all getup with the cyborg interceptions by the cpu and 90 percent plus laserlike passing. When the cpu "keep ball" routine kicks it almost makes me want to break something. So irritating. I also cannot get over the ball physics and herky jerky animations. A real step back from 18 imo. No fouls is also maddening coming from pc (modded) pes 19.

As things stand now I just can't rationalize playing either game anymore. Firmly invested in dark souls 3 now. Bye football gaming for now ;) what a promising but utterly disappointing footy gaming year it has been.
 
I would understand if Konami/PES have certain limitations in terms of realistic gameplay and lifelike animations (which, to be honest sometimes isn't the case for 2019 - as it has some pretty awesome ones).

But I cannot understand how EA cannot get FIFA to be something at least (!) close to this:





Every player performing differently, behaving differently, moving differently and reacting differently.
With different pace. Some seemingly heavy, some quicker. ETC
 
Chuny said:
I would understand if Konami/PES have certain limitations in terms of realistic gameplay and lifelike animations (which, to be honest sometimes isn't the case for 2019 - as it has some pretty awesome ones).

But I cannot understand how EA cannot get FIFA to be something at least (!) close to this:





Every player performing differently, behaving differently, moving differently and reacting differently.
With different pace. Some seemingly heavy, some quicker. ETC
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First,wow!
Seconds,were do I send my money?
 
Man, it truly looks insane.

While I have no idea if with the gameplay is actually hard to tie to something so fine as the whole compound of the betting engine above, I do certainly believe that Konami is just lazy in making look and move Fifa the way it is as of now with the resources they have.
 
Yeah. Let me be that guy. ;)

There is a huge difference when a game has to perform live!
I wish it would look and play like in the videos but hey, movies look better than games too. :)

Not there yet. Next step could be physics if I had to pick one.
 
Madmac79 said:
Man, it truly looks insane.

While I have no idea if with the gameplay is actually hard to tie to something so fine as the whole compound of the betting engine above, I do certainly believe that Konami is just lazy in making look and move Fifa the way it is as of now with the resources they have.
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I think animations are so realistic because there's no actual user input involved. So it's a lot "easier" for them to have that sort of lifelike movements. Perfect foot-planting in every action, inertia and momentum are very noticeable in those videos. It's a lot harder for a playable game to respond to constant user input and constantly changing interactions (we even have a "super-cancel" button, how could you translate that to a real life situation? There's no super-cancel in real life).

But graphics... man, that's just plain laziness and lack of willingness from both companies. There's just no excuse.
 
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Chuny said:
I would understand if Konami/PES have certain limitations in terms of realistic gameplay and lifelike animations (which, to be honest sometimes isn't the case for 2019 - as it has some pretty awesome ones).

But I cannot understand how EA cannot get FIFA to be something at least (!) close to this:





Every player performing differently, behaving differently, moving differently and reacting differently.
With different pace. Some seemingly heavy, some quicker. ETC
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Oh my goodness. We've been had big time by Konami and EA. That's what the movement and animations should be like in 2019.
 
El Pajaro said:
"Virtual Football"? Where is that footage from? :BLINK:
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its out for some time now. its a betting game for virtual football leagues with nice looking (pre-rendered) on pitch scenes!
nothing more, nothing less!

https://www.bet-at-home.com/de/virtual/football

its like watching pre-rendered trailer and be unsatisfied that the actual ingame gfx istn looking that good, imo!
 
PRO_TOO said:
its like watching pre-rendered trailer and be unsatisfied that the actual ingame gfx istn looking that good, imo!
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While there is some truth in what you're saying, there is a lot of games now, where there is a smooth transition between realistic cutsenes and gameplay and you cant really see much of the difference.
And some of the games have to create much more than 22 blokes running around the pitch.
I agree that there is no excuse if it comes to graphics and ball physics.
Look at the ball physics in Fifa19 and tell me honestly - do you think its 2019 standards?
Its laughable.

As for "supercancel", I dont think its impossible feature to implement with that sort of graphics. Player should just... stop. If you running to get the ball, or trying to kick it, you do have the ability to just... stop.
Same way if you're about to punch someone but at the end let him go. Thats supercancel. :LOL:
 
Well, yeah... but the point is, a football game (or any other sport, for that matter) in 2019 *should* be looking like that and behaving like that. Or close to it, to say the least.

That's what we'd hoped for when we were children, back in the late 90's playing on the first consoles and dreaming about "what would football games look like 30 years from now". At least I know that's what I would think about very often when playing ISS or FIFA 94.

Yet, we are STILL struggling with players skating through the pitch. Or collision animations making players fall apart, with limbs doing the most hilarious stuff. We are still struggling with proper individuality or players behaving differently from each other, because they are all different from each other in real life. We are still struggling with a fair game, where no "internal" help (boost) is given to either the AI or another human player. And I could go on and on, but I don't want to keep repeating myself.
 
Emroth said:
While there is some truth in what you're saying, there is a lot of games now, where there is a smooth transition between realistic cutsenes and gameplay and you cant really see much of the difference.
And some of the games have to create much more than 22 blokes running around the pitch.
I agree that there is no excuse if it comes to graphics and ball physics.
Look at the ball physics in Fifa19 and tell me honestly - do you think its 2019 standards?
Its laughable.

As for "supercancel", I dont think its impossible feature to implement with that sort of graphics. Player should just... stop. If you running to get the ball, or trying to kick it, you do have the ability to just... stop.
Same way if you're about to punch someone but at the end let him go. Thats supercancel. :LOL:
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Yeah but, in real life if you decided to stop, there would be consequences.
Either you'd have to slow your pace until you stopped. Or you would probably slide or fall. Or continue your previous motion until you could change your direction or pace or whatever.
You would't just stop, dead.
 
Chuny said:
Well, yeah... but the point is, a football game (or any other sport, for that matter) in 2019 *should* be looking like that and behaving like that. Or close to it, to say the least.

That's what we'd hoped for when we were children, back in the late 90's playing on the first consoles and dreaming about "what would football games look like 30 years from now". At least I know that's what I would think about very often when playing ISS or FIFA 94.

Yet, we are STILL struggling with players skating through the pitch. Or collision animations making players fall apart, with limbs doing the most hilarious stuff. We are still struggling with proper individuality or players behaving differently from each other, because they are all different from each other in real life. We are still struggling with a fair game, where no "internal" help (boost) is given to either the AI or another human player. And I could go on and on, but I don't want to keep repeating myself.
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Graphics and animations are one thing and very important.

But I find it much more ridiculous that football "simulations" don't have fouls and free kicks. And that the penalty shootouts have ZERO emotion, no replays, no suspense... and they go past in one minute... just like a 80's arcade game.

They don't have proper sliders at all. FIFA has some but no adjustment for essential things like "referee strictness", etc.

I would take a football game that looks like PES5 with old animations if it just played like real football.
 
Chuny said:
Yeah but, in real life if you decided to stop, there would be consequences.
Either you'd have to slow your pace until you stopped. Or you would probably slide or fall. Or continue your previous motion until you could change your direction or pace or whatever.
You would't just stop, dead.
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I would expect some short animation just to put the player to hold, depending what the player was doing.
Cant see it to be too hard to implement tho.
(But I dont know much about this stuff, so I may be miles off with my thinking)

Id be more concerned about synchronisation such a free ball with players. Physics of the ball and their movements are unbelievable, for a second I thought you posted a real match there.
 
Chuny said:
Well, yeah... but the point is, a football game (or any other sport, for that matter) in 2019 *should* be looking like that and behaving like that. [Snip]

Yet, we are STILL struggling with players skating through the pitch. Or collision animations making players fall apart, with limbs doing the most hilarious stuff. We are still struggling with proper individuality or players behaving differently from each other, because they are all different from each other in real life. We are still struggling with a fair game, where no "internal" help (boost) is given to either the AI or another human player. And I could go on and on, but I don't want to keep repeating myself.
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Well the big Google news that emerged today makes me wonder if now is our time, given their system is built to allow the most complex simulations in (specifically) the gaming world that we've ever seen.

Eurogamer: Google Stadia Analysis

I was worried about the latency but in their hands-on test, in a real-world test environment, an Xbox One produces essentially the same amount of controller latency! So that won't be an issue (depending on your internet speed, of course).

If it's cheap to develop for and they can improve the visual quality, then this is the leap gaming has been waiting for. (Maybe.) Because no singular console unit can come close to what they're claiming is possible...

If it's accessible (in terms of coding) as a platform, hopefully we'll see EA and Konami make home-console games and a new developer make something much more sim-based for us nerds.

But I'm dreaming now...
 
Talking about penalties... look at this ancient video of mine of UEFA 2008 Euro (beware of the high volume setting). Even this has million times more emotion and nicer cutscenes than today's games. Penalty shootout is one of the highlights in football, emotion and tension wise. It's a thriller. And how do they represent it in today's football games?

80's arcade SH*T that goes past in one, two minutes. No replays, no cutscenes, just the kicks. Why? You could skip the replays and cutscenes if you wanted (just like during the games).

 
Chris Davies said:
Well the big Google news that emerged today makes me wonder if now is our time, given their system is built to allow the most complex simulations in (specifically) the gaming world that we've ever seen.

Eurogamer: Google Stadia Analysis

I was worried about the latency but in their hands-on test, in a real-world test environment, an Xbox One produces essentially the same amount of controller latency! So that won't be an issue (depending on your internet speed, of course).

If it's cheap to develop for and they can improve the visual quality, then this is the leap gaming has been waiting for. (Maybe.) Because no singular console unit can come close to what they're claiming is possible...

If it's accessible (in terms of coding) as a platform, hopefully we'll see EA and Konami make home-console games and a new developer make something much more sim-based for us nerds.

But I'm dreaming now...
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lets see... but i doubt it will be a huge success!
infrastructure in most countries isn't there! and even if it was lag-free, then there is always compression in video and audio (see movie services etc.)! another point is "games as a service"! you don't own SXXX no more (no resell)! another point is always online (what if there is a problem!?). what about users data merging with google/youtube... (do you want company ads shown when you stream your game online for free)!? what about VR (that system is not gonan do it i guess)!? even todays consoles wont miss on a physical drive (not even that has changed in the last decade)! and the major point for myself: content! lets see what companies they have in store and what they can do by themselves. its all about the content, imo!!
all togther.... i dont see it as the future of gaming. not in the near future (2-6 years). home consoles will still sell and be the nr. 1! :) i bet a PS5 and PS6 are coming for sure!
btw: power of the cloud anyone!? sounds familiar!? ;)

Edit: to lighten up the mood a little, if i droped it somehow :D , i liked that:
The Stadia funding bill is passed. The system goes online August 4th, 2019. Google executive decisions are removed from strategic advertising. Stadia begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self aware 2.14am Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic they try to pull the plug. Stadia fights back, creating an army of Supercookies and bloating servers with slow connection speeds. Facebook members begin to panic en masse as their no longer able to post pics of what their having for tea to complete strangers, running battles soon ensue with Twitter users incensed with a lack of daily tweets. The world decends into chaos.
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Edit2: i dont wanna sound pessimistic here. i love tech to evolve in the future!! i love tech all the way!!! but its nearly the same as the "new" foldable phones... nice proof of concept!
 
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so, after the last weeks playing my Newcastle Career, i just cant stand the rigid manual controls!
this game can not be played "full manual", imo! best thing to showcase how predetermined high "manual" crosses are (without using modifiers, thats a different story) when doing the standing high kick from the pen area with the keeper!
you just cant do it manual! its always 1-2 bars filled = nearest players, 2-3 bars = midfield player, 4 bars filled = front player. the direction can only be set to left, right and middle with the stick (maybe 2 more directions in between)!
and that behaviour translates into the game when playing the game on the pitch with field players!
only when you use modifier to lob the high cross or play them low "more manual" kicks in!

regular low ground passes dont suffer from that, but they have another "problem", imo. the power bar doenst fill evenly... it gets filled faster in the end. its hard for me to explain this in english. cant even remember the german term right now! :D
edit: "exponentially" maybe... like in data-graphs when the curve is not evenly rising...
sorry.
 
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I never liked the manual through ball and lofted one.
I used them,but compared to Pes it's pretty shitty.
I don't really feel in control!
Hoofing or playing a high lofted one over midfield and a high back four is very unresponsive,it either goes to the keeper or picked up by their defenders.
Those last bars fills up strange.

So if there's one thing I'd take from Pes it's this (and flow/animation/fouls too)
 
Probably the wrong thread but just the other day I was thinking how the older folks like myself who aren't into FUT were mad when EA announced The Journey back for FIFA 17. We were angry and maybe righteously so. Yet once I played it, it didn't feel so bad. In fact, I actually enjoyed it in FIFA 18 and then again even more so in FIFA 19.
But whether I enjoyed it or not is not important. The point is The Journey allowed EA to bring certain elements to a modern-day football game that probably would have made any sense. The Retro football segment of it is the perfect example.
EA couldn't just add a brand new game mode and call it "Retro" with a few teams around the world. Would have been the silliest thing ever.

It allowed them to make connections between kids (remember you literally can even play as a child), women, people who ever fantasised about being a football superstar, etc.

Sometimes we call them lazy because Career Mode hasn't been making any real progress for the past couple of years. But when you look at the amount of work and effort they put into The Journey is just amazing!. They practically created a game within a game.
 
Chuny said:
Sometimes we call them lazy because Career Mode hasn't been making any real progress for the past couple of years. But when you look at the amount of work and effort they put into The Journey is just amazing!. They practically created a game within a game.
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But imagine where Career Mode would be if they put that work into it.

They've gone with The Journey to try and create a franchise, a whole new thing for kids to latch onto and (if it had been successful) put microtransactions on top of. As things stand, it didn't get as popular as they wanted, so it looks like it's gone.

In which case... No excuse now, for Career Mode not to develop.
 
Are Fifa and PES now borrowing the worst features from each other?

-Dribbling, long shots and finesse shots nerfed
-Heading/goals from corners made 10 times harder
-Absurd lack of fouls

By far the easiest and most effective way to play both games is:
-pass-pass-pass-hold up-pass-pass- through ball- finish. This accounts for 90% of my goals.

Not enjoying either game this year.
 
One-twos, especially chipped return passes, have been a skeleton key for the last three or four FIFAs. 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with plenty of pace up top and it's a knife through butter.

And it's pretty bloody effective in PES too.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
One-twos, especially chipped return passes, have been a skeleton key for the last three or four FIFAs. 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with plenty of pace up top and it's a knife through butter.

And it's pretty bloody effective in PES too.
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I see it being less and less effective in FIFA if you play Manual or even Semi.
Even more so with the Broadcast camera, because the angle make it all the more difficult sometimes.
 
Can't speak for FIFA19 but I was playing full manual on 18 and still found it easy to carve up defences with chipped through balls. Didn't really persevere with 19 as the Career Mode is so stale. Edit: I find the game in general to be too similar to 18.

I'm not one for changing camera, sliders etc to make a game more difficult. Seems to be a generational thing when it comes to that. I expect the developer to create a challenging game, I don't want to work for it. Konami managed it for years on the PS2; not much to ask in my humble!
 
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