Final Pass
League 1
- 23 August 2016
Most people here enjoy single player from what I can gather.
Who buys PES 2017 for online?
FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball
- Thread starter Clown Baby
- Start date
Who buys PES 2017 for online?
shez
League 1
- 19 August 2005
Agreed.
They should make FIFA 17 an online based game dedicated to online modes, Just like their fifa UT mobile apps on ios and android. Dedicated to UT,pro clubs with new features like face scans, Create a unique club and maybe have online based user created leagues and tournaments.
Then they need to revive the Fifa Manager series which had so many decent ideas but suffered from an outdated match engine, They can work on the AI, Add more sliders (Fouls/cards ,Shooting frequency,Crossing frequency,GK rush...etc) and improve on career mode features with training and maybe an extended Journey mode.
They have all the licenses but 20-25 years of producing the same game is just not good enough.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
looks like I can make a killing in the used game market,if wanting to buy FIFA 17...
I never buy FIFA on release day,last year I bought it on Black Friday,simply because it takes a while getting FIFA playable/acceptable/great.
Catching up on reviews,in here and elsewhere,filtering out FUTTY kids,it's not a very good game,yet!
Remembering 16 being absolutely horrible when I started playing it last year.
But after the 1.07 patch and a good slider set,it's very enjoyable,would say a fantastic game,but enjoyable and very fun to play.
Hope 17 goes the same way.
Most people seem to think it's not even a finished product,that's very disturbing
Button lag being one issue,another issue for me personally,and that being very disrespectful to its customers.
Proper set of rules!
How can I take a "sim" seriously when it's not even real rules regarding cards implemented in the game.
Think EA has to stop pleasing everyone,cause it only creates a game that doesn't please anyone.
Hopefully they get their shit together
For now I'm staying put with a very good and enjoyable FIFA 16, and a fantastic PES 17.
And if I only wanna play a game based on stunning looks,I play GTA.
I never buy FIFA on release day,last year I bought it on Black Friday,simply because it takes a while getting FIFA playable/acceptable/great.
Catching up on reviews,in here and elsewhere,filtering out FUTTY kids,it's not a very good game,yet!
Remembering 16 being absolutely horrible when I started playing it last year.
But after the 1.07 patch and a good slider set,it's very enjoyable,would say a fantastic game,but enjoyable and very fun to play.
Hope 17 goes the same way.
Most people seem to think it's not even a finished product,that's very disturbing
Button lag being one issue,another issue for me personally,and that being very disrespectful to its customers.
Proper set of rules!
How can I take a "sim" seriously when it's not even real rules regarding cards implemented in the game.
Think EA has to stop pleasing everyone,cause it only creates a game that doesn't please anyone.
Hopefully they get their shit together
For now I'm staying put with a very good and enjoyable FIFA 16, and a fantastic PES 17.
And if I only wanna play a game based on stunning looks,I play GTA.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Who? I buy Pes for online and many others players who want play for skill and only for skill in good Pes website. Of course low teams.
Final Pass
League 1
- 23 August 2016
That's fair enough. But some of us love single player career modes - there is nothing strange about that.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
I tried FIFA demo again for two days.
This is the worst 'football' gameplay i have ever played, manual, assisted, whatever i tired, this game is just insulting. Its like a cheating, nymph, socialite, ex-girlfriend trying to hide her many dirty conquests to try and get back with you becuase she needs a challenge for her ego's sake but deep down we know she needs a lot of work.
She looks great still well worth intercourse but there is nothing where when you handle her, the same robotic style rhythm with as much makeup as she can possibly put on. really reminds me of the last girl i went to bed with. All hype but there's nothing there between the sheets.
- Pace control anyone? What ever happened to putting your foot on the ball and making something happened that you want rather than being forced to play FIFA ball?
- Manual controls, I swear its been 8 YEARS and STILL i must use the THROUGH BALL BUTTON for standard passes, PES gets this right in 2012 with a PS2.5 engine yet EA STILL cant get the sensitivity right on the PS4?
- Blatant cheating, sometimes when the momentum isnt going your way and you carve out a chance the Ai will literally break the rules o football t stop the goal, yes, I played a ball through to ribery, Bale just about got their first but he then passed it back to the keeper who, yes, he picked it up! ... i know, i mean PASSBACK RULE ANYONE???? i have the video to upload if nobody believes me on this, again its EA sports man!
I mean i could go on, but lets stop and summarise. What i love is the visuals, atmosphere, the effects and players warming up, adboards, ohh its so, so nice and has a selling factor for a PES player. What is good about FIFA is there are many quality animations there so if this game is started again from scratch i have good hope there's a high quality stock of these to be used again as the animations about 70% of them provide a 'realistic' looking game at least, its like well made cloak.
But thats it, i think i will buy this game when it drops in price on PC to mod it and take graphical inspiration but its really is the worst gameplay experience i have ever had with a football game. Just horrid
This is the worst 'football' gameplay i have ever played, manual, assisted, whatever i tired, this game is just insulting. Its like a cheating, nymph, socialite, ex-girlfriend trying to hide her many dirty conquests to try and get back with you becuase she needs a challenge for her ego's sake but deep down we know she needs a lot of work.
She looks great still well worth intercourse but there is nothing where when you handle her, the same robotic style rhythm with as much makeup as she can possibly put on. really reminds me of the last girl i went to bed with. All hype but there's nothing there between the sheets.
- Pace control anyone? What ever happened to putting your foot on the ball and making something happened that you want rather than being forced to play FIFA ball?
- Manual controls, I swear its been 8 YEARS and STILL i must use the THROUGH BALL BUTTON for standard passes, PES gets this right in 2012 with a PS2.5 engine yet EA STILL cant get the sensitivity right on the PS4?
- Blatant cheating, sometimes when the momentum isnt going your way and you carve out a chance the Ai will literally break the rules o football t stop the goal, yes, I played a ball through to ribery, Bale just about got their first but he then passed it back to the keeper who, yes, he picked it up! ... i know, i mean PASSBACK RULE ANYONE???? i have the video to upload if nobody believes me on this, again its EA sports man!
I mean i could go on, but lets stop and summarise. What i love is the visuals, atmosphere, the effects and players warming up, adboards, ohh its so, so nice and has a selling factor for a PES player. What is good about FIFA is there are many quality animations there so if this game is started again from scratch i have good hope there's a high quality stock of these to be used again as the animations about 70% of them provide a 'realistic' looking game at least, its like well made cloak.
But thats it, i think i will buy this game when it drops in price on PC to mod it and take graphical inspiration but its really is the worst gameplay experience i have ever had with a football game. Just horrid
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Gunslinger
Premier League
- 5 September 2016
Vieirinha
League 2
- 18 February 2011
It is sad that on PC PES is in such a sorry state
And I seriously doubt that no matter how great PES can justify a €410 price tag
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
I brought PES on PC since i have to thank Konami for sending me a promo copy for PS4 via PES Universe personally i have no complaints but i see your point man.
At least you got to vent your anger about your ex .. .I bet you feel better now. . . ..who'd have thought evoweb could be that therapeutic?
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
I have both games and after playing both for a decent amount of time i have come to the following conclusion......
Both are good games.
I'll start with PES.
I only play offline so i can't talk about the online experience as i have literally no idea whether it is broken or not. So offline for me is really enjoyable on the whole. I do have some minor gripes with it. I think the lighting is poor and and the pitch textures are shite for a ps4 game. The sheer number of night matches in a ML campaign is a joke and some of the CPU transfers have been beyond weird. So off the pitch, it needs a lot of work. On the pitch however, it is a 8.5/10 sort of game. It has a great flow to it, it's responsive while not being overly sensitive. Movement has a heaviness to it which EA haven't really captured every since they implemented 360 movement. The goalkeepers have improved and are now much better than they were previously. The animations of the keepers look very good except for one - the one where the ball flies across the keeper into the corner (the keeper does like this weird run and jump...it looks odd). Every now and then i will concede a goal where it will feel like i'm not even in control of my team, but on the whole i'm solely to blame for most goals that fly in my net. Passing is a joy and player movement and how players behave tactically is much better than Fifa. Scoring feels very good although i do miss the old PES 5 days where the camera angle would change slightly when a goal is scored. Overall though i am very happy with the game. It does a lot of things better than Fifa, but i just don't feel like i can have a Premier League experience with it, even with option files. It has a continental feel to the game. Nothing wrong with that at all, but sometimes i love me a bit of Premier League....and the leads me nicely on to Fifa.
Fifa is a weird game. That sounds bad but i mean it in the sense that it plays totally differently dependent on the camera angle (which are really shit to be honest). The best of a bad bunch is the Broadcast angle which looks exceptional but also causes a bit of disconnect when you reach both penalty areas. This is because the camera doesn't zoom in (to anybody who plays NBA 2K16/17 they will notice the option to turn 'Key Zoom' on in the camera options) and i feel the lack of this little feature makes playing around the box quite difficult as it's hard to judge the depth of the field. The other two half decent camera angles are Default and Dynamic, but Dynamic makes the game seem too fast for me now. Default, Tele and Tele Broadcast make the game look a bit like it is on rails and in turn the game feels incredibly boring at times. It seems to lack ebb and flow and seems really once paced. So that's why i use broadcast, even though it can also make defending quite difficult. Another issue that adds to this difficulty is how sensitive players are to directional change. Players still seem to hover on the spot as opposed to actually being fixed to the ground, and i feel this is something Fifa have been unable to fix since their invention of 360 movement way back in 2010. So this causes issues on player cursor changes with defenders splitting apart from one another leaving huge gaps for the AI to exploit. EA are obviously aware of this because they have weirdly just tried to paper over it by having the CPU miss ridiculous sitters to stop games from finishing 7-3.
Those niggles aside, the game in itself is fun to play. I don't particularly think it is a pace fest (as has been claimed), i just think dribbling is a little easier than PES (which has a bit of a catch-up issue going on). Midfield play is actually quite decent and there is a good amount of player individuality (even though athleticism is still the most telling difference among players). I'm playing a career as West Ham and have signed Dahoud and Calhanoglu (sp?) and adding them to Lanzini and Payet makes midfield play feel quite dreamy. It really is lovely. All goes to pot once Andy Carroll gets involved but that's a problem to fix in January. The overall broadcast quality of the game is excellent (still nowhere near the level of NBA 2K17 though) and the pitch textures and stadium lighting is brilliant. The nets look great (on broadcast cam - not so much on the others) and the crowd atmosphere is decent. The commentary is much better than PES although quickly gets old as it's recycled quite often, and there's a disconnect between what is being said and what is really happening (for example, i drew with City, Chelsea and Man United (2 were away games)in succession yet i was in a poor run of 3 draws. Again minor niggle. Overall though, it does have the one more game feel (again, only if i play on broadcast). It has the 'I'm going to play PES' feel when i try to enjoy it from any other angle.
In closing, both are very good.
Both are good games.
I'll start with PES.
I only play offline so i can't talk about the online experience as i have literally no idea whether it is broken or not. So offline for me is really enjoyable on the whole. I do have some minor gripes with it. I think the lighting is poor and and the pitch textures are shite for a ps4 game. The sheer number of night matches in a ML campaign is a joke and some of the CPU transfers have been beyond weird. So off the pitch, it needs a lot of work. On the pitch however, it is a 8.5/10 sort of game. It has a great flow to it, it's responsive while not being overly sensitive. Movement has a heaviness to it which EA haven't really captured every since they implemented 360 movement. The goalkeepers have improved and are now much better than they were previously. The animations of the keepers look very good except for one - the one where the ball flies across the keeper into the corner (the keeper does like this weird run and jump...it looks odd). Every now and then i will concede a goal where it will feel like i'm not even in control of my team, but on the whole i'm solely to blame for most goals that fly in my net. Passing is a joy and player movement and how players behave tactically is much better than Fifa. Scoring feels very good although i do miss the old PES 5 days where the camera angle would change slightly when a goal is scored. Overall though i am very happy with the game. It does a lot of things better than Fifa, but i just don't feel like i can have a Premier League experience with it, even with option files. It has a continental feel to the game. Nothing wrong with that at all, but sometimes i love me a bit of Premier League....and the leads me nicely on to Fifa.
Fifa is a weird game. That sounds bad but i mean it in the sense that it plays totally differently dependent on the camera angle (which are really shit to be honest). The best of a bad bunch is the Broadcast angle which looks exceptional but also causes a bit of disconnect when you reach both penalty areas. This is because the camera doesn't zoom in (to anybody who plays NBA 2K16/17 they will notice the option to turn 'Key Zoom' on in the camera options) and i feel the lack of this little feature makes playing around the box quite difficult as it's hard to judge the depth of the field. The other two half decent camera angles are Default and Dynamic, but Dynamic makes the game seem too fast for me now. Default, Tele and Tele Broadcast make the game look a bit like it is on rails and in turn the game feels incredibly boring at times. It seems to lack ebb and flow and seems really once paced. So that's why i use broadcast, even though it can also make defending quite difficult. Another issue that adds to this difficulty is how sensitive players are to directional change. Players still seem to hover on the spot as opposed to actually being fixed to the ground, and i feel this is something Fifa have been unable to fix since their invention of 360 movement way back in 2010. So this causes issues on player cursor changes with defenders splitting apart from one another leaving huge gaps for the AI to exploit. EA are obviously aware of this because they have weirdly just tried to paper over it by having the CPU miss ridiculous sitters to stop games from finishing 7-3.
Those niggles aside, the game in itself is fun to play. I don't particularly think it is a pace fest (as has been claimed), i just think dribbling is a little easier than PES (which has a bit of a catch-up issue going on). Midfield play is actually quite decent and there is a good amount of player individuality (even though athleticism is still the most telling difference among players). I'm playing a career as West Ham and have signed Dahoud and Calhanoglu (sp?) and adding them to Lanzini and Payet makes midfield play feel quite dreamy. It really is lovely. All goes to pot once Andy Carroll gets involved but that's a problem to fix in January. The overall broadcast quality of the game is excellent (still nowhere near the level of NBA 2K17 though) and the pitch textures and stadium lighting is brilliant. The nets look great (on broadcast cam - not so much on the others) and the crowd atmosphere is decent. The commentary is much better than PES although quickly gets old as it's recycled quite often, and there's a disconnect between what is being said and what is really happening (for example, i drew with City, Chelsea and Man United (2 were away games)in succession yet i was in a poor run of 3 draws. Again minor niggle. Overall though, it does have the one more game feel (again, only if i play on broadcast). It has the 'I'm going to play PES' feel when i try to enjoy it from any other angle.
In closing, both are very good.
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
"This is the worst 'football' gameplay i have ever played,"
"worst gameplay experience i have ever had with a football game. Just horrid"
yet
" i think i will buy this game when it drops in price"
Seems to me you just like publicising the fact that you are a FIFA hater.
"Blatant cheating, sometimes when the momentum isnt going your way and you carve out a chance the Ai will literally break the rules o football t stop the goal"
Personally, I think you need to practise more.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Well I am happy to upload the highlights of me beating Real Madrid with Gamba Osaka on legendary
Yeah, the equalizer was lucky but i literally burst out laughing when i scored the winner in extra time. The guy who i crossed it with wasn't even looking at the ball properly for the cross and heading is so overpowered and the AI is just absent sometimes its just hilarious. I must admit i found Bayern a little tougher, kept losing 1-0 in extra time to them mainly because my players had shit stamina compared to Bayern's but its just jokes because you can play the same carbon copy way with any team on the demo. The best way to play FIFA is to go hard on the sativa and shut your brain off, just play and laugh.Yes i do hate FIFA gameplay and i say it proudly, i used to edit the gameplay myself back from 2003-2009 days so i know how the game is programmed and why its so bullshit, if you visit soccer gaming forums and look at fidels work, speak to matt, they can give you an insight to how fifa works hence why i hate it so much, because i know full well its just cuts corners, cheats and refuses to allow things to paper over its broken programming.
I just don't like deception, this game is art, but not competitive art, its pure scripted drama.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
I love this point as it relates to my understanding of the scripted AI, many times in the demo like i have in many FIFA games but more often than not in recent FIFA games when you hit the middle part of the PS4 controller and control the keeper, if you bring him out, even when you fuck up its hilarious when the AI misses an easy chance because he isn't in a sweetspot along with EA taking out any proper pace control so you or the AI can slow down put their foot on the ball and aim correctly.
This is becuase EA program all players in the game in a generic way and each attribute is calculated on a percentage of likelihood of a positive outcome, so the only real difference in individuality are pace and strength. Pace is very easy to program along with programming strength into the shielding and tussle animation layers. Everything else is the same, just based on percentages. You have attributes such as long passing and crossing which are the same thing, instead of being related to the level of skill a player can manifest a lob pass like in PES, it relates to the percentage likelihood of a successful scripted button press when crossing or hitting what the cpu 'defines' as a long ball.
This is why they need to go back and start again with the AI coding, its just a mess.
In all fairness, that's still better than the gameplay in PES 2014-2017, where stats don't matter at all. You can play like Barcelona with every AFC Champions League team there.
darkoj2007
Premier League
That is simply not true. You can play your way of course but when CPU attacks you they can find holes through your defense, thats where stats matter. You can`t defend against strong teams easily, I speak when you play at proffesional and above is even harder. I have matches where I have possesion with Ajax in ML but CPU scores against me in counter attacks, last game was against Nice, Balloteli uses his agility against my defence, you can easily see the difference between him and my players who were not default ML players but original.
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal!
League 1
I have come across a rather irritating issue with PES 2017. FAR too many times in Master League a last minute equalizer is scored past me by my Keeper tipping a tame shot straight out to a CPU striker to score.... I know such craziness happened in my fave PES games of yesteryear so just gotta roll with it.
So my two penneth. Bought Pes on release and really enjoyed it, much improved over last year. Picked up Fifa and again, much improved on last year. Rather than describe stuff i'll just bullet list the pros and cons over each other.
Pes pros
- Keepers have improved massively
- AI attacking variety is good
- Love the custom camera angle compared to Fifa
- Love the fluidity of the build up
- Nice net physics and goal animations in general
- generally better ball physics
- Player models are just the right side of good but could be better.
Pes Cons
- Individuality less pronounced because of the catchup bug
- Pitches look terrible except for at night
- AI play far too fast and attack constantly
- Only ten replay spots
- Crosses are crazy fast
- Not enough stadiums
- Catchup bug is terrible. CPU players are still hunting you down all over the pitch in the 80th minute even for weak teams
Fifa pros
- Lots of variety in the animations, still seeing new clearances, blocks and other nice touches
- Lighting and pitches are brilliant, love the different times of day
- Shooting is improved
- Love the new corner and pen system
- AI variety is good. People say its poor but its not had some cracking games and its really balanced
- Masses of stadiums and licences
- Players look much better in Frostbite
- The variety of plays, goalscrambles, off the line clearances, deflections and blocks are superb
Fifa cons
- Nets look weird for some reason
- Had a few mini bugs like the pitch changing colour
- Sliders help fix the game more sim like than out of the box which was terribly fast and the cpu far too accurate
- Atmosphere isnt implemented as well as you'd think. Sometimes games lack atmosphere
- Match highlights could do with an upgrade
- Could do with a proper replay editor to save your best goals. The best replay feature i've ever seen is Pes 13
I think this year Pes has really upped the stakes but for me Fifa when tweaked with sliders produces the most sim like football game ever created, it just does period. As usual if you could take bits of both you'd have a mammoth game. But i think both fans of each series will be delighted and those who play both will be satisfied. For me, Pes captures a European night game brilliantly and Fifa captures the Premier League with accuracy.
I'm a happy bunny.
Pes pros
- Keepers have improved massively
- AI attacking variety is good
- Love the custom camera angle compared to Fifa
- Love the fluidity of the build up
- Nice net physics and goal animations in general
- generally better ball physics
- Player models are just the right side of good but could be better.
Pes Cons
- Individuality less pronounced because of the catchup bug
- Pitches look terrible except for at night
- AI play far too fast and attack constantly
- Only ten replay spots
- Crosses are crazy fast
- Not enough stadiums
- Catchup bug is terrible. CPU players are still hunting you down all over the pitch in the 80th minute even for weak teams
Fifa pros
- Lots of variety in the animations, still seeing new clearances, blocks and other nice touches
- Lighting and pitches are brilliant, love the different times of day
- Shooting is improved
- Love the new corner and pen system
- AI variety is good. People say its poor but its not had some cracking games and its really balanced
- Masses of stadiums and licences
- Players look much better in Frostbite
- The variety of plays, goalscrambles, off the line clearances, deflections and blocks are superb
Fifa cons
- Nets look weird for some reason
- Had a few mini bugs like the pitch changing colour
- Sliders help fix the game more sim like than out of the box which was terribly fast and the cpu far too accurate
- Atmosphere isnt implemented as well as you'd think. Sometimes games lack atmosphere
- Match highlights could do with an upgrade
- Could do with a proper replay editor to save your best goals. The best replay feature i've ever seen is Pes 13
I think this year Pes has really upped the stakes but for me Fifa when tweaked with sliders produces the most sim like football game ever created, it just does period. As usual if you could take bits of both you'd have a mammoth game. But i think both fans of each series will be delighted and those who play both will be satisfied. For me, Pes captures a European night game brilliantly and Fifa captures the Premier League with accuracy.
I'm a happy bunny.
You're making the mistake of comparing your team against the AI team. Balotelli scoring goals against you is simply a result of scripting against you and not of individual player stats. The point is that often you are able to slaughter teams like Barcelona, but then in the next match you get slaughtered by some random second division team.
Apart from that, the game falls apart on Top Player and Superstar, anything beneath it is pretty irrelevant.
craney91
One Love
- 15 December 2006
- Liverpool FC
I actually agree with this. The game functions differently on Professional, Top Player and Superstar, than it does on Regular. For some reason your output on the ball is reduced. Without changing any controller settings or direction shooting on target becomes a lot harder? Why is this?
Surely the CPU should just provide a tougher challenge?
If you can afford both you should go for it, if not and you're happy stick with Pes. I think the advantage Pes has over fifa is that for the most part if you are really happy with that game, you can update most of the kits next year.
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal!
League 1
After initially disagreeing. I agree that PES 2017 is the best football game this term. Despite its issues it is WAY better than FIFA 17 gameplay wise.
Like others have said - if youre happy with PES you don't need Fifa.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
But the key is how effective is it to play like Barca with average players since you can just create a strategy which suits their abilities which will help you more.
My point is on FIFA, there is a 'FIFA sweetspot' method to play the game regardless of attirbutes and team, play that way, get the momentum right and you win.
Sorry majuh there is no such thing as a random second division team beating you from scripting in PES 2017 which you cant change from mastering how your team should play. Sounds like the AI are just exploiting your tactics, i saw enough in the last two games and especially 2017 again that this game is all about how you defend and set you team up regardless of opposition strength to win. CPU AI essentially cheats on all video games, if it didn't it would be painfully easy (I've learned this though gameplay patches), its balance which is the key which PES does well. Of course it can be improved but whats there is fine.
There no such thing as random, things happen for a reason, find out why to give yourself peace of mind, no point coming here all insecure and wanting everyone to agree with you, this is a forum we are here to debate. Sorry it sounds as if your ego cant handle being beaten on Top player or Superstar.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
I'm finding gameplay on Superstar with ML Defaults in Master League the most satisfying, drama filled football videogame experience ever at the moment. And yes, it does feel like a good approximation of the sport.
To suggest that FIFA is "more sim, period" when playing with sliders is incredibly inaccurate. Football is more an art form than it is a mechanical one, and against the AI, FIFA, regardless of sliders, is one of the most mechanical experiences out there. Doesn't make it a bad videogame (I actually rather enjoy it) but it certainly doesn't make it "more sim", "the best sim" or make PES an arcade game or whatever.
Simulation doesn't equate to mechanics and complexity when considering trying to capture the beautiful game in videogame form. The very term "simulation" is used inaccurately when considering both games; as if the more complicated something is, the more buttons that need to pressed and the more mechanics you through at it, the more the more "simulation" it is. That's nonsense. I swear that if they released Daley Thompsons Decathlon or Track and Field these days some players would complain that there isn't enough mechanics in place for the 100m sprint, even though the original mechanics actually "simulated" that discipline rather well. Like it did the 110m hurdles or even 1500m.
In PES I feel like I am controlling a cool wee approximation of a professional football player, with first touch and natural ability coming through as I pass from player to player. In FIFA I feel like I am controlling a football player shaped vehicle. That doesn't represent how simple having a ball at your feet is and when considering these games are about trying to approximate the professional game and its variety of players and stars, in all shapes and sizes, that is quite a big thing to not get quite right. If the idea is to make controlling a player complex, then FIFA wins. That isn't depth though beyond number of button inputs.
To suggest that FIFA is "more sim, period" when playing with sliders is incredibly inaccurate. Football is more an art form than it is a mechanical one, and against the AI, FIFA, regardless of sliders, is one of the most mechanical experiences out there. Doesn't make it a bad videogame (I actually rather enjoy it) but it certainly doesn't make it "more sim", "the best sim" or make PES an arcade game or whatever.
Simulation doesn't equate to mechanics and complexity when considering trying to capture the beautiful game in videogame form. The very term "simulation" is used inaccurately when considering both games; as if the more complicated something is, the more buttons that need to pressed and the more mechanics you through at it, the more the more "simulation" it is. That's nonsense. I swear that if they released Daley Thompsons Decathlon or Track and Field these days some players would complain that there isn't enough mechanics in place for the 100m sprint, even though the original mechanics actually "simulated" that discipline rather well. Like it did the 110m hurdles or even 1500m.
In PES I feel like I am controlling a cool wee approximation of a professional football player, with first touch and natural ability coming through as I pass from player to player. In FIFA I feel like I am controlling a football player shaped vehicle. That doesn't represent how simple having a ball at your feet is and when considering these games are about trying to approximate the professional game and its variety of players and stars, in all shapes and sizes, that is quite a big thing to not get quite right. If the idea is to make controlling a player complex, then FIFA wins. That isn't depth though beyond number of button inputs.
Hmmm...my version of sim compared to yours maybe different then. because i dont consider Pes a simulation of the sport. It simply can't be because the game is far too frantic and end to end when playing the CPU. Real football doesnt play that way. Sure you get your humdinger matches occasionally and at times the Premier League can be a goal fest, but theres a lot of turgid draws and slogs in world football. And for me Fifa nails both. I played four exhibition matches last night. I beat Carpi 2-0 with Juventus after the plucky underdogs who came at me first 20 mins or so and had me under pressure. Then i lost 2-0 with Soton at Burnley that was more of slog for me. I then drew 0-0 with Burnley with Liverpool away and i battered them for most of the game and couldnt cobvert. Then beat them 2-1 at Anfield. The games played out as you would have suspected them in real life. I dont find this with Pes. When i play any team in a lower rank than myself they are tough as old boots to beat everytime. And the reason why is because thye have ramped up the CPU stats in the match to make it a real challenge to score. Now i dont mind that, in fact in some ways its challenging and gives you that one more game i'm going to beat you bastards feeling, but sometimes it pisses you off. Sometimes you should be just be able to make your superiority count, but i dont find that in Pes. The cpu stamina doesnt seem to wane. When i have Mane rushing down the wing, i dont expect three players to chase him down in the 70th minute (including one of the CPUS forwards!). Its unnecessary and it rankles a bit.
Thats not to say Pes is a poor game, it suits different peoples tastes. I just find it slightly more arcade and Fifa slightly more sim. And thats due to the build up of both AI's in each game. I think if Konami toned it a little the rythm of the game would be superior.
Just to make an extra point. Yes but you are talking about yourself and your team. Im fine controlling my team, its the oppositionand the CPU that stops it being a sim. It can be played out by myself as a sim. I can take my time controlling my buildup play and i can knock it about at my leisure, but the CPU doesnt do that. It just goes for the throat constantly.
Dont know whether i agree Klashmann. I keep using Carpi as an example becuase i've played them excessively to test with a multitude of sides. At times they play super one touch football to the edge of your box like Barcelona. You'd expect more mistakes and a slower build up in play. You'd certainly expect a team, such as Carpi who in game throw 4-6 players forward but always manage to get back into position super quickly through the full game stamina to be rock bottom.