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FIFA 23 Discussion Thread (Console Versions)

Sami 1999 said:
I don't understand why they have to make the animations and players skate and slide to make dribbling and moving responsive.

FIFA 12 and 13 were incredibly responsive and felt amazing to move the players around for that reason. Same with PES 13. And none of those games looked like this. Whatever animation system they're using is just fucked.
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I genuinely think that the Frostbite Engine is at the core of all these issues.
At some point in time EA decided that all of their sports title should also use Frostbite, an engine that was made by DICE for Battlefield, an ego shooter. In both FIFA and (more so) Madden physical contact often looks horrible, there are loads of weird animations that make no sense and players skate to get in to their predetermined positions. I highly doubt that this is fixable with Frostbite. As long as they keep using that engine their sports titles will suffer. And there is about no chance at all of them moving in a different direction.
For further proof just google a bit. Throughout the years various concerns regarding that engine have been raised by developers and news outlets.
 
Milanista90! said:
I genuinely think that the Frostbite Engine is at the core of all these issues.
At some point in time EA decided that all of their sports title should also use Frostbite, an engine that was made by DICE for Battlefield, an ego shooter. In both FIFA and (more so) Madden physical contact often looks horrible, there are loads of weird animations that make no sense and players skate to get in to their predetermined positions. I highly doubt that this is fixable with Frostbite. As long as they keep using that engine their sports titles will suffer. And there is about no chance at all of them moving in a different direction.
For further proof just google a bit. Throughout the years various concerns regarding that engine have been raised by developers and news outlets.
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I absolutely hate frostbite because it basically ruined modding.
 
Dont mind this guy, @Sami 1999
Screenshot_20220814-184401_Chrome.jpg
He is well known twitter whinger.
He wouldnt see hypermotion if it slapped him in the face.
Some say he is more toxic than Britney Spears.
Thank God they dumbed down AI.
Imagine if they kept working on improving AI since 2016... it would had been a disaster. Anyone who have seen Terminator knows - it can only end badly.
As an exclusive FUT player myself - I have only one message to that Chris fella:
Screenshot_20220814-191604_WhatsApp.jpg
 
Emroth said:
Dont mind this guy, @Sami 1999
View attachment 173433
He is well known twitter whinger.
He wouldnt see hypermotion if it slapped him in the face.
Some say he is more toxic than Britney Spears.
Thank God they dumbed down AI.
Imagine if they kept working on improving AI since 2016... it would had been a disaster. Anyone who have seen Terminator knows - it can only end badly.
As an exclusive FUT player myself - I have only one message to that Chris fella:
View attachment 173435
Click to expand...
OMG Thanks for enlightening me with this new perspective! EA has been the good guys all along!

In order to save humanity, they never improved on AI.

Pre ordering Fifa 23 now to support EA.
 
Milanista90! said:
I genuinely think that the Frostbite Engine is at the core of all these issues.
Click to expand...

I must be the only one not believing this. Everyone knows now that the animations in their sports games are not pure old fashioned motion capture. Now you've all heard about their algorithms and their machine learning AI manipulating the animations in real time. That's another layer that's not engine dependent. They could port their hypermotion tech to unreal and you would see the same "skating" or whatever.

The way things are going though, I fully accept that I may be vindicated posthumously. 😅

Milanista90! said:
Throughout the years various concerns regarding that engine have been raised by developers and news outlets.
Click to expand...

This is very much true. Biggest problem was that because this is an engine not sold / licenced to 3rd parties it lacked the documentation an engine like unreal has, and wasn't widely tested with just any type of game. Many devs were very much lost at first because of this. But obviously this is much less of a problem after many years of actually using it and developing it.
 
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manmachine said:
I am the only one not believing this. Everyone knows now that the animations in their sports games are not pure old fashioned motion capture. Now you've all heard about their algorithms and their machine learning AI manipulating the animations in real time. That's another layer that's not engine dependent. They could port their hypermotion tech to unreal and it would be the same
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I agree that engine has nothing to do with AI. If they dont want to implement decent AI - it doesnt matter what engine they use.
Having said that - all the twitchy and glitchy animations with sliding - thats Frostbite.
I absolutely hate this engine.
 
Emroth said:
I agree that engine has nothing to do with AI. If they dont want to implement decent AI - it doesnt matter what engine they use.
Having said that - all the twitchy and glitchy animations with sliding - thats Frostbite.
I absolutely hate this engine.
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Nope I'm only talking about the animations. The "machine learning AI" is what they mention in their hypermotion tech demos as the thing responsible for manipulating the animations in real time. That's where (and why) everything happens. Interrupting animations and skating are 100% design choices to prioritize speed and responsiveness.

But, at the end of the day, only the end result matters, so it's not much use blaming one tech or the other.
 
Frostbite is perfectly fine on NHL 22.
Sometimes a gold painted turd is just a turd.
This is done by choice not lack of a good engine.
 
Yeah honestly I've always have been on manmachine bandwagon regarding engine. Although I can understand one can generally prefer the feel of one over another, I think they could have the smoothest, most realistic piece of software crafted by the most brilliant programming minds in the world at hands and they'd still manage to twist it in that cosmic horror looking thing they turned the game into.
 
Madmac79 said:
Yeah honestly I've always have been on manmachine bandwagon regarding engine. Although I can understand one can generally prefer the feel of one over another, I think they could have the smoothest, most realistic piece of software crafted by the most brilliant programming minds in the world at hands and they'd still manage to twist it in that cosmic horror looking thing they turned the game into.
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Imagine how weird all ball related stuff (shooting/passing/ball handling etc) would look with perfect foot plantng?
Even more insane than now.
A shitty done game imo
 
manmachine said:
Nope I'm only talking about the animations. The "machine learning AI" is what they mention in their hypermotion tech demos as the thing responsible for manipulating the animations in real time. That's where (and why) everything happens. Interrupting animations and skating are 100% design choices to prioritize speed and responsiveness
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You might b right. I wont argue on stuff I dont understand well.
All I know is - F16 - no, or very little skating/twitchiness - F17 onwards - lots and lots.. :LOL:
But this might as well b down to "lets cut these animations by 80% coz it will make it hyper responsive in motion... wait... hyper...motion... thats a good slogan! We'll use it at some stage!"
 
I've offered my feedback on the gameplay feedback forum (with diagrams of just how open the game is and how it explains things lots of people have mentioned on the feedback forum - like crazy scorelines, most shots being goals, back/forth gameplay), and...

Within a day, it's fallen off the page, to be replaced by ten variations of "you've made the dribbling like PES [LOL], slow and unresponsive [LOL]".

I've also been lucky enough to have a short conversation with one of the devs, who's been kind enough to share a few facts. Offline, most people play on Legendary, and use "Competitor Mode". The "content creators" all use it too. As far as the devs are concerned, it confirms the desire of the audience to "play against the ePros" (and it's hard to argue with statistics), and more people (including Career Mode players) complain about how "slow and boring" the game is than anything else.

So I've come to a realisation and I hope it sticks. I was thinking about it last night:

If I approached someone with bags of money and said "give me a couple of million to create a football game and I'll quadruple your investment within a year", and he said "chump change, have it"...

If I was producing the game, and it was all heavily attributes-based - if poor players couldn't hit defence-splitting passes, and the midfield took build-up play to unlock... If scoring was an achievement every single time... If the games were longer and more involving (deeper experiences), not shorter for convenience*...

If I ran an open beta for this game, and a thousand people said "it's too hard / 0-0s are boring / where's the goals / yawn at all the fouls / why's it so slow"...

...I would completely ignore all of them. I'd know the game I want to make, and it's not a 1v1 eSport pinball goalfest. I'd know the audience I was making the game for, and they wouldn't want that.

So.

If I'm on the FIFA dev team... and the game I wanted to make was the 1v1 eSport pinball goalfest (because it's exciting gameplay that makes billions of dollars)... and also, I genuinely enjoy that kind of gameplay (because as has been pointed out, plenty of people do)... you'd better believe I'd ignore all of the feedback from people like me.

I'd say "what you're asking for is the opposite of the game I want to make - how could I possibly accomodate your request?" ...so FIFA isn't ever going to be for me (and people like me) again, is it. And why keep flogging a dead horse in trying to "open their minds".

*This is what winds me up the most. Are we going to make cinematic releases 30 minutes long to accomodate for people's attention spans? Are we going to make everything pick-up-and-play for "convenience"? Shopping is supposed to be "convenient". But entertainment? On a full-fat games console? ... Mobile games have reduced every gaming experience to "how quickly can I get a match played and get on to the next one before I get bored". I used to spend months in the depths of my Career Mode games, figuring out which of my worst players I could scrape decent results with, and what they were (and weren't) capable of... Now I'm given the option to skip the matches entirely and just watch all the cut-scenes of my players using the gym equipment... and that's "progress".
 
I have played a couple if matches on thé beta ans I think I like it.
I read there is no inertia, it's not right. They correct the freaking strange mouvements of FIFA 22. Now when you turn around to change direction you can't skip this animation, your player make some steps to do it.

Other thing : ball controls. You can't
control a strong pass without than the ball go forward your foot. No more superglue.

AI on WC is strong but do some human things. I didn't play on Legende for now.
The speedy on slow is great, slower than FIFA 22.
Powershot is not shitted because GK are vert good. Better than FIFA 22 beta befor the patch.

It's difficult to défend this year because of the 3 diffetents sprint speedy. If you have Sergio Ramos against Vinicius Jr, you have to put your shoulder befor him to stop him. It's not simple but possible.

The major issue is that AI want to shoot from everywhere, even if sometime a pass will be the right solution.

Midfield is not perfect but I haven't the same issue that Chris. Midfields tracks back and tackle if they can. I have 4-5 faults by matchs, some red fards. No penalty yet.

I have change strickness referee to strick because too many penalty against me on very strick.

Of course, i played FUMA with my sliders on WC. By defaut, AI is overpowered and to chirurgical so you have to increased pass/shoot error and dicreased pass/shoot speed to see more crosses and centers.
 
Chris Davies said:
I've offered my feedback on the gameplay feedback forum (with diagrams of just how open the game is and how it explains things lots of people have mentioned on the feedback forum - like crazy scorelines, most shots being goals, back/forth gameplay), and...

Within a day, it's fallen off the page, to be replaced by ten variations of "you've made the dribbling like PES [LOL], slow and unresponsive [LOL]".

I've also been lucky enough to have a short conversation with one of the devs, who's been kind enough to share a few facts. Offline, most people play on Legendary, and use "Competitor Mode". The "content creators" all use it too. As far as the devs are concerned, it confirms the desire of the audience (and it's hard to argue with that), and more people (including Career Mode players) complain about how "slow and boring" the game is than anything else.

So I've come to a realisation and I hope it sticks. I was thinking about it last night:

If I approached someone with bags of money and said "give me a couple of million to create a football game and I'll quadruple your investment within a year", and he said "chump change, have it"...

If I was producing the game, and it was all heavily attributes-based - if poor players couldn't hit defence-splitting passes, and the midfield took build-up play to unlock... If scoring was an achievement every single time... If the games were longer and more involving (and deeper experiences), not shorter for convenience...

If I ran an open beta for this game, and a thousand people said "it's too hard / 0-0s are boring / where's the goals / yawn at all the fouls / why's it so slow"...

...I would completely ignore all of them. I'd know the game I want to make, and it's not a 1v1 eSport pinball goalfest. I'd know the audience I was making the game for, and they wouldn't want that.

So.

If I'm on the FIFA dev team... and the game I wanted to make was the 1v1 eSport pinball goalfest (because it's exciting gameplay that makes billions of dollars)... and also, I genuinely enjoy that kind of gameplay (because as has been pointed out, plenty of people do)... you'd better believe I'd ignore all the feedback asking to make a game that's the polar opposite from the game I'm trying to make.

I'd say "what you're asking for isn't the game I want to make"... and that's me (and people like me) with FIFA.
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What I don’t understand is that they seem to want to pretend to be making the game ‘realistic’ in things they say in the presentation, videos etc. Why bother with that if they’re simply making an arcade game? Why go near realism at all? It’s almost become like an NBA Jam game now for football.

If they’re going to pretend then why can’t they at least give us a few more options to customise how we like. That’s not asking too much surely. All of those toggles, just give us a few. It wouldn’t be perfect but it would make a big difference.
 
Anth James said:
What I don’t understand is that they seem to want to pretend to be making the game ‘realistic’ in things they say in the presentation, videos etc. Why bother with that if they’re simply making an arcade game? Why go near realism at all? It’s almost become like an NBA Jam game now for football.
Click to expand...
The presentation is realistic because everyone in the world (no matter what gameplay style they like) thinks it's super-cool if the game looks just like it does on TV. But to most people "a game should be a game" and it's all about maximum fun (who cares if a player's foot didn't make contact with a ball and the goalkeeper skated across the line and clearly could have saved the shot but kept his arms by his sides). That's just the fact of the matter. Fun sells.
 
There you have it folks. From the horse's mouth.

Wishing good fun to everyone enjoying basketball games, and see you in the fifa 16 thread if you prefer football games. I still reserve the right to make more horse / Spiderman jokes at the expense of this shit game though! 🤣

Maybe one day when there's nowhere left to go to expand their market for their "football" game, some exec will consider going after the people who would be interested in an actual football game.
 
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Chris there hit the nail on the head.
These games (both of them) are no longer for us, coz gamers and society are changing.
Whether we want to admit it or not - it will never go back to the way it was.

As it stands - you have two choices:

Take the game for what it is - accept no fouls, no midfield and crazy speed. Try to mitigate them with sliders/settings and your own restraints (even tho you know you can run with the defender across whole pitch - dont. Just pass as you would)
Enjoy spectacular visuals and try to have a bit of fun, ignoring everything else.

...Or - just walk away. Stick to the old games, or play something else.

Now - There are two paths where I see hope. And its not just day dreaming, but an actual possibility.

1. EA is having a meetings on how to squeeze even more money from people. They have all the FUT crowd, but is there any other area, unexplored, that could bring more profits...? Someone raises their hand.
EA releases separate version/mode of the game, focused on realism and challenge. And sells it as DLC or seasonal update with cosmetics.

2. Since the world has changed quite a bit and gaming industry has expanded to a point where a game made by few people can be released worldwide - one day we will see indie football game released by a tiny studio, made with passion and a vision. Challenging and aimed for a specific audience, like us.
Game where developers dont really care what people think and are happy with their game being unique.

And thats really it.
 
Like I thought, the Marvel cooperation is just a special Card Design for FUT.
 

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