DevPlays
Mr. Perfect
- 11 January 2021
Off-topic.. but man....... I would like to play FIFA 16 just by seeing the image.. WOW! This picture says it all and this (the midfield and track back) is non-existent in any of the newer titles.
FIFA 23 Discussion Thread (Console Versions)
- Thread starter Chris Davies
- Start date
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
Off-topic.. but man....... I would like to play FIFA 16 just by seeing the image.. WOW! This picture says it all and this (the midfield and track back) is non-existent in any of the newer titles.
17 is still good and has great AI. It just suffers from being the 1st frostbite game with some jerky animations and a tiny ball. And 16 is more modable in the previous engine, so that's ultimately the prefered game to play.
18 is the definite turning point, it's all downhill from there (This is a bit more than just an opinion, there's info out there if you google it with EA people saying publicly that 17 was too hard to play for many people and that it should be more accessible, that's when the dumbing down of the game truly began).
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Oh you 100% need to play it!Off-topic.. but man....... I would like to play FIFA 16 just by seeing the image.. WOW! This picture says it all and this (the midfield and track back) is non-existent in any of the newer titles.
what players are magnetic to have such a perfect first touch....
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Yeah, it's kinda not talked enough imho. From 22 onwards (haven't played 21) first touch regressed to this magnetic, unrealistic perfect thing that also leads to less loose balls and more frenetic, nonstop action which of course further poison the game as a whole. After positioning and the various IA idiocies it's probably the thing that puts me off the most.
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
This and how you can pass in almost any angle in a millisecond without even turning to face that direction. One moment the player is running towards one direction, next moment he launches a driven pass in a >90 degree angle from where he's looking, it just rockets past everyone and is perfectly controlled as well. These two things I can never look past when seeing videos (it's nothing new, but I suppose others are probably used to this passing by now).
Ah man, catching up on this page this morning has been a ride......
Absolute LOL!..... WE'RE the toxic ones.....
FWIW - To me the term 'toxic community' is one of those modern-day, meaningless throwaway internet terms, but ho hum lets say for a second that it's a thing.
So, I'm just going to leave this here
To me, here you have all the tantrums and histrionics of your archetypal 'online gamer'. I could have picked literally any one of thousands of identikit videos from these people complaining that essentially everything in the game is 'broken' and 'unfair' because they're 'the masters' and are not winning. These still exist despite the fact that every patch update is FOR THEM.....every live tuning made.....is FOR THEM. Yet still. It's NEVER.... EVER enough.
If there is indeed a definition of 'toxic community' I would argue that it's very much this.
So - it's therefore very easy to see why so many people question whether this crowd are really football fans at all because none of their complaints have any connection with the real world game whatsoever. It's all about 'who's the better gamer?'...... and with each passing year, from our perspective, they give them what they want.
It's really really sad because I feel that there are so many people (more than I think people realise) out there who are absolutely DESPERATE to enjoy these titles and find that they can't or are put off because of what they are now. Just look at the endless hours we're prepared to spend tweaking the sliders in a vain attempt to nullify some of the ridiculous Marvel mechanics the online focussed gameplay now forces on us. And screw it....by 'US'...... yes I do mean football fans....people who've just finished coming home from a game....or watching one on TV and who maybe just want to spend an hour or so of their escapism time scratching the itch that it's given them.
To some - what IS there scratches that itch and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. All power to em......many of us kinda envy them.
To a lot of people - it simply doesn't, and you can see why it boils our piss when the gameplay concessions made for online, that are are completely grotesque to us, are STILL met with further 'Speed it up.....it's unfair....this is OP!....that's OP! i AM better that all my cheesy opponents'...... by the very people they're supposed to appease.
It's got to come to a head and I honestly can't see any issue whatsoever with the solution being to separate the online and offline gameplay.
Absolute LOL!..... WE'RE the toxic ones.....
FWIW - To me the term 'toxic community' is one of those modern-day, meaningless throwaway internet terms, but ho hum lets say for a second that it's a thing.
So, I'm just going to leave this here
To me, here you have all the tantrums and histrionics of your archetypal 'online gamer'. I could have picked literally any one of thousands of identikit videos from these people complaining that essentially everything in the game is 'broken' and 'unfair' because they're 'the masters' and are not winning. These still exist despite the fact that every patch update is FOR THEM.....every live tuning made.....is FOR THEM. Yet still. It's NEVER.... EVER enough.
If there is indeed a definition of 'toxic community' I would argue that it's very much this.
So - it's therefore very easy to see why so many people question whether this crowd are really football fans at all because none of their complaints have any connection with the real world game whatsoever. It's all about 'who's the better gamer?'...... and with each passing year, from our perspective, they give them what they want.
It's really really sad because I feel that there are so many people (more than I think people realise) out there who are absolutely DESPERATE to enjoy these titles and find that they can't or are put off because of what they are now. Just look at the endless hours we're prepared to spend tweaking the sliders in a vain attempt to nullify some of the ridiculous Marvel mechanics the online focussed gameplay now forces on us. And screw it....by 'US'...... yes I do mean football fans....people who've just finished coming home from a game....or watching one on TV and who maybe just want to spend an hour or so of their escapism time scratching the itch that it's given them.
To some - what IS there scratches that itch and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. All power to em......many of us kinda envy them.
To a lot of people - it simply doesn't, and you can see why it boils our piss when the gameplay concessions made for online, that are are completely grotesque to us, are STILL met with further 'Speed it up.....it's unfair....this is OP!....that's OP! i AM better that all my cheesy opponents'...... by the very people they're supposed to appease.
It's got to come to a head and I honestly can't see any issue whatsoever with the solution being to separate the online and offline gameplay.
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manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
One thing that has occured to me... What if they think they've already separated online and offline gameplay? And if they read this they go "WTF are these guys talking about? They can chose between the default gameplay and the competitive gameplay already, we've worked like a whole weekend on that".
The default is the braindead one, with no defending whatsoever and 50 shots per game, the competitive mode maybe slightly tighter and with the cpu moving around the pitch not by sprinting but by doing step-overs and tricks.
Maybe they need a reality check about the state of the "default" version of their gameplay. Has anyone inside EA ever considered that good AI might be a bigger requirement when playing against the AI?
darkoj2007
Premier League
They have technolgy to make best of the best in sport games. I remember in the early ps1/ps2 days while online doesn't existed we used to come to a local play cafe and have tournaments through the all night. There I saw most competitive people in my life and belive me they enjoyed that sim elements in Pes games back there. Those were good days and I will remember them!
Today's kids have other element which we weren't back then, social media. They try to fulfill emptyness in life becouse they don't go out as much as we were, they speak througs mobile apps and web etc. Having game where they can score goals they imagine in their fantasy and beating other non skilled people online is welcomed practise for them. EA simply use that and make money, that's why they don't care about the sport at all.
BTW no buying from me this year, my eyes hurt when I saw that rotating and sliding through all the pitch like watching ballet.
Today's kids have other element which we weren't back then, social media. They try to fulfill emptyness in life becouse they don't go out as much as we were, they speak througs mobile apps and web etc. Having game where they can score goals they imagine in their fantasy and beating other non skilled people online is welcomed practise for them. EA simply use that and make money, that's why they don't care about the sport at all.
BTW no buying from me this year, my eyes hurt when I saw that rotating and sliding through all the pitch like watching ballet.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
The idea of both games being broken for years, when programmers and such left the companies, is the most plausible for me atm.
Combine that with the ”easy money grab” mentality shown for some years now… it all makes sense.
if I’d sell dog poo online, making a “shit load” of money, why would I care if a small percentage of customers wanted less smelly poo. 🤷♂️
sad times! Really sad!
DevPlays
Mr. Perfect
- 11 January 2021
Yes, I know. But, I don't have it, unfortunately.
Sami 1999
Noob
- 28 June 2015
What the fuck? Demo for 21 and 22 did not exist? And there won't be demo for fifa 23?
I completely skipped on 21 onwards after hearing that pc wont get next gen version. But I wasn't aware of them getting rid of demo. How will I test the game before buying then?
I completely skipped on 21 onwards after hearing that pc wont get next gen version. But I wasn't aware of them getting rid of demo. How will I test the game before buying then?
- Staff
- #645
No, I dont think so. As much as I have no evidence to my claim that I can provide - there are people among EA dev team that understand what we are talking about.
They cant all be blind.
But they probably dont have enough power to change things, or at least divert some resources to look after the glaring offline issues, coz its not profitable.
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Did someone got the 20 demo? I don't remember having the choice to try it (perhaps in my country? Not possible).
Well i never saw so much analysis and hope, serious talk for an already dead in in egg game.
I just ask about the 20 demo O.T., don't even want to talk on this thread about FIFA 23 as i'm 100% sure nothing won't fit, neither to my taste...
Neither to you, except for the 2 people on 500 who liked FIFA 22. I hated it from the start, vanilla, no patch, it was already "Schoker" movie for every players Ultra Speed so.
Got even more hope about UFL to play 5 to 10 games in 6 months.
Feedbacks and all... With everything you said before about the game, i just (really) can't believe you still got hope. Very very seriously. It's not Evo-weby at all.
Kinda understand your despair. Or if you need a punching ball, something you "love to hate".
Well i never saw so much analysis and hope, serious talk for an already dead in in egg game.
I just ask about the 20 demo O.T., don't even want to talk on this thread about FIFA 23 as i'm 100% sure nothing won't fit, neither to my taste...
Neither to you, except for the 2 people on 500 who liked FIFA 22. I hated it from the start, vanilla, no patch, it was already "Schoker" movie for every players Ultra Speed so.
Got even more hope about UFL to play 5 to 10 games in 6 months.
Feedbacks and all... With everything you said before about the game, i just (really) can't believe you still got hope. Very very seriously. It's not Evo-weby at all.
Kinda understand your despair. Or if you need a punching ball, something you "love to hate".
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
Testing costs money now. And even though it's not free, it's limited to 10 hours. If you're not sure after a few days playing, tough luck.
Good thing I don't see something worth testing (as far as I am concerned), so I don't see myself giving them a cent for EA play. If there was a free demo maybe I would try it out of curiosity no matter how bad I thought it looked.
TheWolf
Premier League
Turning off bookings, set to lenient refs, CPU injury and severity set to 100 (set user to 0 for both), slow the CPU players down by 5 points in acceleration and sprint but increase yours by 5. 10 minute halves.
Your mission? To cripple so many CPU players the match gets abandoned. It’s hilariously fun and even better when you play with a friend.
TheWolf
Premier League
My thoughts exactly mate.
daikirai
statement™
So I do play both Pro Clubs and Career, a lot, and I'm not liking the beta so far. I've played very little but my freshly created 80 overall pro felt like he was skating, defenders constantly move out of the way, goalies as well.
Momentum/planting is there, a bit, but the animations do not line up in any way. Some of the new running animations are ridiculous as well.
Momentum/planting is there, a bit, but the animations do not line up in any way. Some of the new running animations are ridiculous as well.
When I played the beta, I was under the impression that no matter how you set the ai, it's at amateur or whatever the default is. I have tried to set it at world class and legendary and they are both much easier than 22's world class. Really hope it's because the beta limits the ai to lower difficulty, but knowing EA's track records, this is probably the version or very near to the one they are going to publish.
- Thread starter
- Staff
- #652
The difficulty levels are definitely working. Every game I have on Legendary, 5-6 minute halves, the AI scores almost every shot they hit. Usually they score between 4-9. As do I.
There's just no defensive resistance on any difficulty level. Midfielders position themselves ahead of the ball to receive a counter-attacking pass, and a single defender will press (badly, leaving a hole) while the others stand miles apart, slow-jogging on the spot, watching you run past and score. On any difficulty level.
(I must stress, there is no childish exaggeration. Last night, as Crystal Palace versus Espanyol, I had an entire half where the AI kicked off, hit a few passes, scored, then I kicked off, hit a few passes, scored, and IT CARRIED ON LIKE THAT until it got to 4-4 before half time. I turned it off at that point.)
I would be tempted to say it's so bad that it's just a beta issue, except it was visible in the trailers and they had no issue with it.
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Different style, more saturation in Fifa (matter of preference) but that's my thoughts... About players from long side view i feel EF more natural.
Also, the cam could made a big difference. But overall i agree.
But i don't found EF ugly at all, at least my first try was on PS5.
I even was surprised the first game i played (in comparison to what people said here, well most were on PC) as i found more, let's say "proportionally correct" and clean.
Strictly graphisms talking, nothing more so like some screenshots it's far from being my concern.
But the big difference is in motion when you watch a vid. There's no comparison to me except the ball flow in EF22, Fifa 23 (same shit) is more and more looking like a pretty weird iteration a bit caricatural, with some Pre-FIFA 07 moves, not joking.
And don't think i'm happy to write it. Thanks i got retro good versions to fulfill my empty hearth, but it won't last forever.
One day i will do like @Emroth > put a cross about everything related to "F-Games".
Not now but i see it coming in 1-2 years max. For the moment i still have fun with old stuffs, even if i miss my yearly version : like a FIFA 17 base for the 22 and 23 (same engine, promising with some bugs, but rectifiable. Balanced)
But will be bored, play lesser and lesser, try EF23 if there's offline purpose (so perhaps never) and be disappointed again.
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ninety3twenty
League 1
- 10 August 2018
I hadn’t considered that and you’re probably bang on. Being an ex pat, I listen to loads of footy podcast now etc and watch shows as a replacement for chatting down the pub with my mates or PES nights. Plus I suppose with YouTube highlights etc, and technology driving addiction to dopamine hits, it reflected in the games. They probably just want the “wow” factor over and over. Constant stimulus providing satisfaction rather than satisfaction of having to have worked for it.
Makes me think with you saying that how art imitates reality or more to the point, societies current social norms.
Maybe I’ve gone off on one there ha.
- Staff
- #655
I haven't played any football games this year. Like I said on few occasions - for my own mental health I decided to walk away.
Having said that - I still very much want everyone in here to get a football game they deserve.
There are people who come here, not entirely understanding our point of view.
I also always believed that pictures are more than words.
So for that reason I decided to illustrate something.
I booted up my PS4, installed vanilla version of Fifa 16 and played one match.
One match.
Full manual, world class difficulty.
8 minutes halves. 8 minutes!!!
In Fifa 23, having recommended time 3 mins - you would get background changed into basketball pitch and a warning message "Confirm you want to change sport and have double digits result"
This is what I got
7 shots from me, 4 from AI.
In over 20mins match (extra time included) most of the battle was in the midfield. Formations were covering one another, tracking back, defending.
AI was passing around, not just kicking it out to their striker. Game was tactical, tight and challenging.
I had fouls, I had injuries.
AI, on World Class, had 79% pass accuracy. 79%.
The only thing I can pick on is lack of cards, but I dont play aggressively and it was a friendly match.
Now, having same settings, show me similar statistics on any modern Fifa.
I know most FUT players would tell me this is boring as fuck. But to me - this is football.
And this proves my point - online gameplay HAS to be separated from offline, coz we simply cannot achieve anything like this in modern FIFA and therefore cant get any joy from it.
Having said that - I still very much want everyone in here to get a football game they deserve.
There are people who come here, not entirely understanding our point of view.
I also always believed that pictures are more than words.
So for that reason I decided to illustrate something.
I booted up my PS4, installed vanilla version of Fifa 16 and played one match.
One match.
Full manual, world class difficulty.
8 minutes halves. 8 minutes!!!
In Fifa 23, having recommended time 3 mins - you would get background changed into basketball pitch and a warning message "Confirm you want to change sport and have double digits result"
This is what I got
In over 20mins match (extra time included) most of the battle was in the midfield. Formations were covering one another, tracking back, defending.
AI was passing around, not just kicking it out to their striker. Game was tactical, tight and challenging.
I had fouls, I had injuries.
AI, on World Class, had 79% pass accuracy. 79%.
The only thing I can pick on is lack of cards, but I dont play aggressively and it was a friendly match.
Now, having same settings, show me similar statistics on any modern Fifa.
I know most FUT players would tell me this is boring as fuck. But to me - this is football.
And this proves my point - online gameplay HAS to be separated from offline, coz we simply cannot achieve anything like this in modern FIFA and therefore cant get any joy from it.
- Thread starter
- Staff
- #656
There aren't enough like buttons on Evo-Web for this post, Marty. Nailed it, absolutely nailed why I am so, so sad.
Jay-Jay 10
League 1
- 6 July 2021
I am honestly wondering why I am having such different results than you guys. Maybe I am really just a bad player but I only had one really extreme high scoring game so far.
But for example this was my stats and score with 6 minute halves on World Class, with Player based difficulty Leicester vs Chelsea with me being Chelsea:
1-1
Possession 47 to 53
6 shots to 13
Expected Goals 1.1 to 3.5
Passes 148 to 139
Tackles 12 to 20
So I am just wondering why my experience differs. Is it a different playstyle or for me the difficulty just fits?
But for example this was my stats and score with 6 minute halves on World Class, with Player based difficulty Leicester vs Chelsea with me being Chelsea:
1-1
Possession 47 to 53
6 shots to 13
Expected Goals 1.1 to 3.5
Passes 148 to 139
Tackles 12 to 20
So I am just wondering why my experience differs. Is it a different playstyle or for me the difficulty just fits?
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
But (even though I agree with your post of course), I would note that in a well balanced game you get these stats just by doing your best to play the game optimally to get the best result you can.
I'm saying that because someone could probably get something close to those stats (on any game!) by playing it with the sole purpose of ... well, getting close to those numbers. Things like passing sideways on purpose even though there is nothing preventing him from scoring or creating an opportunity with 3 passes. But, there is a huge difference between having a midfield and just pretending there is one in your head.
(And there is nothing wrong with anyone playing the game any way they like, but like I said, just because you're conscious about not exploiting the lack of midfield, does not mean the game has one).
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Do you have any video ? Maybe it is your play style , I'm the same I still really enjoy 22 even default although I've set up formations . But I naturally play build up and don't naturally look for exploits and easy goals. Maybe it's why I don't see them
- Staff
- #660
Oh absolutely, 100%.
Im assuming that people who try to test it are mature and not trying to cheat themselves..
I would add that some might say I "handicapped" myself with Full Manual settings. But I always play like this and I can actually create more chances with absolute freedom of passing/shooting.
And these stats have nothing to do with me being on manual.
Its just the game being ballanced and challenging at the same time, without over accurate shots/passes.
Thats great and I hope it will stay like this for you.
For me, the way it usually was - after a patch or two and half way through the season all my players were Happy, max form, arrows up, never getting tired, never forcing me to make any changes/rotations and matches finishing with 8 goals.