FIFA 20 Discussion (Console Versions)

mfmaxpower said:
I didn't realize you can even watch the ai play itself lol. Yeah, this game is def not set up to play like a sim, so for sure just watching the AI play wouldn't be good. They were def true to their word for putting the power in our hands, not the AI.

Like, here's some awful AI. Why the fuck is Fornals not doing shit? Makes zero sense from a football context:


But here's the thing. Last year had bad AI, and it led to goals, easy wins, and a poor overall experience. I was trouncing the EPL with a squad that didn't rate above 75.

This year though, despite this passive AI, it's actually pretty well balanced once you get the hang of it. Sprint jockey is critical to mark the CPU for example. And despite the passive AI, I've not scored more than two goals in the EPL playing as palace; I've only had two "goal fests" and those were against top teams that schooled me. Even with that example above, I didn't score.

The way the AI is programmed to literally switch off once you get pass a line is really odd and frustrating, but it's well balanced overall and doesn't fuck up outcomes. No doubt the sim crowd will hate this, but as an overall gameplay experience IMO it's way better than before.
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I don't know, I don't think it's much a sim crowd issue but rather that having a player just staying there immobile breaks immersion whatever you prefer a sim or a different kind of game.
 
Play it wrong, in FIFA 20!
Well I'm glad they're now embracing how bad they are. I mean, finally, with the kind of f** you money they have, I expected this long ago.
 
Got the new FIFA20 and played a few games today. I cant get use to the new ball physics. Even a short pass to a player just a few feet away results in the ball leaving the ground and I am just gently tapping X. I have often criticised the ball physics in previous versions as being like ice hockey puck, but have they gone a bit to far the other way???
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
God FIFA 08 was a sluggish mess of a game. Players took an age to turn and change direction. Too long if you ask me.
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While that is indeed true I think it was part of its charm. I had a great time with FIFA 08 on my old XBOX 360.
Very good time. One of the best FIFA games if you ask me.
 
Madmac79 said:
I don't know, I don't think it's much a sim crowd issue but rather that having a player just staying there immobile breaks immersion whatever you prefer a sim or a different kind of game.
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But I think we're saying the same thing. When you're talking about immersion, you're talking about realism and simulation. My guess is that whether you'll enjoy this game - or at least be okay with the defensive side of the game - is whether you're okay with being forced to do everything yourself, and if you make a mistake, the AI will not nearly as often bail you out as in recent years.

I wish I had video of this but I just had a perfect example. A forward was running at my CDM. I fucked up with a slide tackle and he coasted by me. IRL, one of the CBs would have moved immediately to cover, but that didn't happen and so the striker got a shot on goal (but he didn't score). For a sim/realism perspective, it looked just wrong. But from a gaming perspective, I was punished for my mistake. This is the new FIFA defending in a nutshell.

Now, in my opinion the CB should've moved over, so that I could switch to him and he's in the right position for me to make a play. FIFA never seems to get its new features and mechanics right in the first year. And I doubt we'll get this "fix" this year, as we're talking about a pretty big change I think, but hopefully in the future they'll get AI teammates to be a bit more helpful without pissing off the FUT/competitive players.

It's frustrating and unrealistic, but I think overall gameplay is actually better balanced. Maybe it's because I'm playing with Crystal Palace (god their squad is awful) but I'm rarely seeing more two goals per game, which is just shocking compared to recent years. So while there's bits and pieces that certainly aren't realistic, the end result and overall gameplay experience IMO is actually quite improved.
 
deskpro said:
Got the new FIFA20 and played a few games today. I cant get use to the new ball physics. Even a short pass to a player just a few feet away results in the ball leaving the ground and I am just gently tapping X. I have often criticised the ball physics in previous versions as being like ice hockey puck, but have they gone a bit to far the other way???
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Are you tapping the passing button twice? This way you play lofted passes now.

Riscas said:
Is it still possible to use the 10h trial of EA access?
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Yes.
 
mfmaxpower said:
For a sim/realism perspective, it looked just wrong. But from a gaming perspective, I was punished for my mistake. This is the new FIFA defending in a nutshell. [...] It's frustrating and unrealistic, but I think overall gameplay is actually better balanced.
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Nicely put. I think that's where we are - FIFA has made a decision as to their gameplay focus. I've said it a million times this past few years, but you can't please sim gamers, casual gamers and eSports pros with the same game (without creating three distinctly different separate gameplay experiences in the same package, with as much innovation apparent in each).

This year feels like the biggest leap towards pleasing online players that they've ever made - if this game had a development motto, it could be input is all. Screw momentum, and who cares if one leg passes through another - if someone pushes a button, don't frustrate them for the sake of realism, because people will be happier with a responsive game than they will an unresponsive, realistic one. Make the balance more fun. Grow the skill gap.

Hard to argue with that. But those in the "realism is my priority" pot (subtitled "realism is better than a skill gap, this is supposed to be a football game") could be left bitterly disappointed. Especially if they don't really like the other game either (and look at its title, "eFootball" - in the end, they both want to sell the game to the same pot of people, because it's the biggest pot of people).

Put it like this - if I buy a £100m defender in Career Mode, and he stands and watches someone go past him unless I babysit him, then in the context of a Career Mode (where transfers and simulation are an integral part of the thing), it's at best a bit pointless, and at worst simply a bad game. In my opinion.

But against friends or online - the context is different. Your £100m defender is stood watching because of the skill gap equation, the person with the better skill is winning rather than the person with the better players.

But it's two different, distinct contexts - and one gameplay that heavily serves one purpose more than the other.

I find it bizarre - if the skill gap is such a priority that people will break realism so badly, then why not set that "all players equal OVR 80" switch that's in the game and use that online, so that it's completely fair and so that the AI's help can be somewhere between "based on attributes" and "automatically helps".

But of course, people want to buy cards and for their new players to feel much better than the old ones. Plus a skill gap. So here we are, with 9 out of 10 of your outfield players being braindead at any one moment. The perfect compromise...

Right now, that "attributes/don't help" balance is so far on the "don't help" side that they are purposefully - as you say - walking away from realism. I can't accept that. It's why I started playing PES, it's why I joined Evo-Web, it's why I'm still here. It's also why I've played more FIFA in the last few years than I have PES. But this marks a turning point in FIFA's direction.

I keep wondering if a PC modder can save it, for guys like me, but the intelligence they've "cut out" of the game can't be put back in. That intelligence isn't a value that can be buffed or nerfed, it's not a single line of code and a number, it's whole chunks of game analysis that's been deleted out of AI players' heads. So I'm feeling a bit bereft.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I keep wondering if a PC modder can save it, for guys like me, but the intelligence they've "cut out" of the game can't be put back in. That intelligence isn't a value that can be buffed or nerfed, it's not a single line of code and a number, it's whole chunks of game analysis that's been deleted out of AI players' heads.
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That's my biggest hope for a good football game now. Not talking about "modding" fifa 20 with some random strings that haven't worked properly since fifa 09, but some genius hacker decrypting / figuring out all the positioning logic and AI logic in past games. These files are still a mystery to everyone as far as I know.
 
I think we can swop "can't" with "won't" regarding a game pleasing just one crowd,or to be fair,not giving much attention to one (SIM)

Of course they can ,other games balance a casual offline experience with a casual (FUT like) online experience,to a very deep offline sim.
So why "can't" EA do it?
Answer is they "won't"

I'm 5 seasons in on my myleague,which is so deep and so big in customisation/gameplay that makes FIFA /NHL/EA live look like a game of sticks and rocks.

Just like 2k makes EA look like Cuba with their VC/Loot boxes/ultimate team like games.
So both are possible.
And the right answer is "won't"
Nothing else!
 

In short, sometime in the future they will release a CM patch, they don't know when, but it's NOT going to be the first/next patch. And make no mistake the only reason they decided to talk about it is this:

Capture.PNG

Never expect any communication about any issue unless it's about fut or trending on twitter in which case it may become a concern for EA.
 
manmachine said:

In short, sometime in the future they will release a CM patch, they don't know when, but it's NOT going to be the first/next patch. And make no mistake the only reason they decided to talk about it is this:

View attachment 20768

Never expect any communication about any issue unless it's about fut or trending on twitter in which case it may become a concern for EA.
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Absolutely shameful that such a HUGE company like EA with unlimited funds and marketing used to make Fifa20 a sponsorized global trend on twitter released Career mode in such broken state.
 
So essentially, we're looking at the patch after the next one before Liverpool stop being relegation candidates... Absolutely crazy that the game can be released in such a state.
After playing the game for a fair while, I don't necessarily think it's that bad gameplay wise (albeit way too easy), but I guess i'll be waiting a couple months before I kick off a career mode.
 
I think I've got the gameplay working to a good standard now with sliders after spending most of the day tweaking the settings, ai will misplace passes, not control all passes and the defensive side is alot tighter, il post them with a video in the next hour so two, happy to play the game now until the patch comes out
 
skip to 2:22
I dont get it why EA remove their faces,most probably they will add them back and why They remove players that their contracts expires(free agents IRL) or players that go to league that is not in Fifa,instead of transfering them to free agents like PES do so you can use them later in the game
 
Chris Davies said:
Nicely put. I think that's where we are - FIFA has made a decision as to their gameplay focus. I've said it a million times this past few years, but you can't please sim gamers, casual gamers and eSports pros with the same game (without creating three distinctly different separate gameplay experiences in the same package, with as much innovation apparent in each).
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Part of me agrees. I've never been keen on the idea of splitting gameplay between multiplayer and single player, but I can definitely see why now more than ever that seems like the only solution.

But I'm not sure it really needs all that much tweaking. I'm a big realism guy, but I also agreed that defending was way too assisted in the past, and that's not rewarding (or good for a competitive game). I just think they went too far.

And I actually think that in the vast majority of cases, realism and skill-gap can work together. Think about for example some of the biggest complaints last year: high accuracy of certain finesse shots, full back positioning, OP timed finishing, balls bouncing back to attackers, OP skill moves, bad keepers, OP headers/volleys/first time shots.

With the exception of balls bouncing to attackers and keepers at the near post, they've pretty much fixed all of that, and in all cases it's improved both realism and the skill-gap.

It's really just the AI that's gotta get figured out. If they approach the challenge as in "how can we make the AI more realistic but not have it be as impactful as before," then I think they can make one gameplay suitable for both.

This year feels like the biggest leap towards pleasing online players that they've ever made - if this game had a development motto, it could be input is all. Screw momentum, and who cares if one leg passes through another - if someone pushes a button, don't frustrate them for the sake of realism, because people will be happier with a responsive game than they will an unresponsive, realistic one. Make the balance more fun. Grow the skill gap.

Hard to argue with that. But those in the "realism is my priority" pot (subtitled "realism is better than a skill gap, this is supposed to be a football game") could be left bitterly disappointed. Especially if they don't really like the other game either (and look at its title, "eFootball" - in the end, they both want to sell the game to the same pot of people, because it's the biggest pot of people).
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IMO, they've really smoothed out and improved animations this year, and I'm not seeing players do things they shouldn't be able to. At least not like before. I provided feedback of so many bullshit animation fails last year, and I've hardly seen any this year. I've also been impressed that this year when I try things I shouldn't be able to do, it more often than not fails. So I gotta disagree about them choosing responsiveness over realism, especially or at least compared with last year and before. Not saying there isn't work still to do, but for me this has been a subtle but noticeable improved in 20.

Put it like this - if I buy a £100m defender in Career Mode, and he stands and watches someone go past him unless I babysit him, then in the context of a Career Mode (where transfers and simulation are an integral part of the thing), it's at best a bit pointless, and at worst simply a bad game. In my opinion.

But against friends or online - the context is different. Your £100m defender is stood watching because of the skill gap equation, the person with the better skill is winning rather than the person with the better players.
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I agree and disagree. I get why you'd want that, especially when we're used to past approaches to gameplay. The counter to that is that if you watched an attacker go by your $100m defender, then you screwed up by not selecting him and marking the attacker yourself. This year's gameplay is all about predicting the attacks, choosing the correct defender to control, and then being able to mark him manually.

IMO, this is actually working fairly well... except when it doesn't. That's what's most frustrating to me - sometimes your AI teammates just fail at being where they need to be. If the AI were more consistent and reliable, with better positioning in certain circumstances, then I think it'd be fine.

Right now, that "attributes/don't help" balance is so far on the "don't help" side that they are purposefully - as you say - walking away from realism. I can't accept that. It's why I started playing PES, it's why I joined Evo-Web, it's why I'm still here. It's also why I've played more FIFA in the last few years than I have PES. But this marks a turning point in FIFA's direction.

I keep wondering if a PC modder can save it, for guys like me, but the intelligence they've "cut out" of the game can't be put back in. That intelligence isn't a value that can be buffed or nerfed, it's not a single line of code and a number, it's whole chunks of game analysis that's been deleted out of AI players' heads. So I'm feeling a bit bereft.
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This is where I disagree. I don't think they're going away from realism. Hard to say that when pretty much every change but to the AI has made the game more realistic. I mean, dribbling/skill moves alone are so much more realistic now, which is the complete opposite from what the FUT skillers want. One of their biggest complaints is the removal of chain skilling.

And it's not the intelligence that's been cut out. When your teammates are "turned on" to the play around them, they can be quite good. Their positioning is far improved from last year. And I've been really impressed at times with the CPU defending. I posted a video yesterday of a CPU defender who I beat, rush back and then stop me. That pretty much never would happen before.

It's not the intelligence they've removed; they're just not always active to the play around them, or not active quick enough. This is something they've hardcoded under the hood, and I'd be shocked if you could fix it with sliders. I mean, I posted a video (I think in here) where my CDM was passive, but then tracked a midfielder run... it's just he was too late to see the run. That's the problem for me - it can be just so inconsistent when your AI teammates are "on or off."

But I think we have to remember that almost always new features and mechanics suck at first in FIFA. Remember how long it took shielding to get to a good place? Remember the same with driven passes. Also see Timed Finishing last year compared to this year.

But now we're talking about a total overhaul to defending. It might just be that this is a growing pains year in this area.

So while I agree there's definitely stuff to be frustrated by, I could see what we have now as a pretty solid platform going forward into next gen as they evolve and improve what they've now started. I feel like this year's game has a far higher learning curve than any FIFA before, so I'm not yet ready to say it's amazing or broken. But I don't think it's a coincidence that the Pros and other influencers who've been singing the game's praise, or also those who've been playing the game the longest.
 
Chris Davies said:
I keep wondering if a PC modder can save it, for guys like me, but the intelligence they've "cut out" of the game can't be put back in. That intelligence isn't a value that can be buffed or nerfed, it's not a single line of code and a number, it's whole chunks of game analysis that's been deleted out of AI players' heads. So I'm feeling a bit bereft.
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FIFA 20 Gameplay Mod

Aims / Features
  • Less boring games
  • Remove Super Goalkeepers
  • More AI long passes
  • More AI direct dribbling
  • More AI shooting
  • More reliance on tactics
  • Player likeness - A larger emphasis on player attributes
  • A fast player can outrun a slow player
  • More AI tackling
  • More fouls
  • New ball control system

http://soccergaming.com/index.php?threads/paulv2k4-fifa-20-mods.6467165/#post-6558529

That's just the first version.
 
OK, so FIFA 20. I've spent a LOT of time with it over the last 24 hours or so. Was up very late with it last night in multiplayer. Spent all of today playing Career Mode as Hull City in Ultimate rather than doing important work because I'm silly like that.

The gameplay is fantastic this year. It's slower, it's varied and it's fun. You can't spam sprint button anymore, forget it. Defending is an art and marking zones/spaces in vital. Love it.

Single Player. Career Mode. It's woeful. Absolutely dire. On Ultimate, in my Hull City save, I am yet to lose a match. I win every single game without getting out of second gear. When I was playing test Career matches yesterday, I did struggle initially BUT the game was brand new to me. Now I've learned the defending and my players are all in form? It's like I'm playing the game in Easy Mode.

Bugs. Lots. Of. Bugs. Most of you probably know about them. But Career Mode hasn't been playtested, simple as that. It makes Master League look like Football Manager on the PC in it's current state. Earlier, I beat Reading 4-0. In the post match press conference, the interviewer asked me why it was such a boring match. Yep.

The CPU decides to play it's under 9's instead of it's srongest eleven because apparently an EFL Sky Bet Championship top-of-the-table clash isn't important at all.

The opposition AI is worse than it's ever been. Defences part like the Red Sea. You can simply jog through and score. On Ultimate Difficulty.

This is the worst Career Mode experience I've ever had in FIFA. It's been easy for years but NOW we've got added bugs served up with it.

Again, the gameplay is SUBLIME at times. FIFA 20 online is a joy to play and it's where I'll be spending all of my time.

But this is the beginning of the end for single player football gaming my friends. They don't care anymore. They simply don't care.
 
1P/AI
Speed 46/45
Accel 47/46
Shot Error 58/58
Pass Error 61/61
Shot Speed 52/52
Pass Speed 38/38
Injury Freq 66/66
Injury Sev. 18/18
GK Ability 48/48
Marking 94/94
Run Freq 23/23
Height 68/68
Length 28/28
Width 49/49
Fullbacks 54/54
First Touch 62/62
Power Bar Speed 65

theres sadly nothing i can do to effect the woeful defensive ai but i think with those sliders its the closest we'll get to simulation gameplay until a patch


Edit.... Just playing now for the first time against the ai on world class champions league with those sliders with camera tele broadcast height 13 zoom 0 and getting the pes 2011 vibes except with better ball movement and responsiveness, loving this and I'm even getting fouls
 
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Sliders won’t save this mess in single player. FIFA is a game to be played online now. The single player modes are an afterthought - Career Mode could be so good. But it’s too easy and always will be on this engine.

PES for single player, FIFA for multiplayer.
 
It's crap online as well, it's gone back to being abused with pacey players. Can the goalkeepers actually hold the ball rather than parry it straight out to the opposition, it might help.

Not impressed to be honest.
 
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