FIFA 20 Discussion (Console Versions)

goalgerd said:

It looks really good close up though
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If it wasn't for the sliding feet, and the way animations regularly cut off at their half-way point and then speed up to finish it (i.e. a foot absolutely flies back to a standing position at double-speed as the player lets go of the stick or what have you), it'd be okay.

I'm sick of the "jelly-leg" stuff, and it's only since Frostbite that it's crept in. Breaking animations (and breaking legs) so that the player's desired input isn't ignored and the game feels fluid.

It feels to me that both games are coming up to the end of a generation - new consoles are around the corner - and core issues like these require new engines, I think. Fingers crossed.

Until then, I won't be pulling off any moves like this anyway - left-stick dribbling is enough for me - and hopefully the AI doesn't spam it either, so it won't affect me too much I don't think. Also, the fact that it was pretty much torn to pieces in the beta forum makes me think it might be reworked.
 
Another thing that hurts my eyes when watching fifa clips - why the hell, when ball is on the ground, it feels like its very heavy (like they were kicking basketball), yet when they do a lob pass - it looks like it was filled with helium..
 
But we're all going to come back to the same question ,no matter how much we grasp on to some straw of hope.
Ai is going to pass the ball with no adjusted body position with 88% accuracy,doesn't matter if it says Aston Villa or Barcelona on their kits.

Don't know why people still have their hopes set for "maybe this year" attitude?
You know exactly how it's going to end up?
I'm on my third season with FIFA 19,and it started of well,but now that I'm leading La Liga I see all of FIFA's ugliness,scripted as hell,shit teams ping ponging their way through my defence without even looking at the ball.
Same story as every year.
Wish I could be totally brain-dead and enjoy rainbow flicking my way though 6 min games on FUT,then I'll probably enjoy FIFA
Then again,maybe this year...
 
rockstrongo said:
But we're all going to come back to the same question ,no matter how much we grasp on to some straw of hope.
Ai is going to pass the ball with no adjusted body position with 88% accuracy,doesn't matter if it says Aston Villa or Barcelona on their kits.

Don't know why people still have their hopes set for "maybe this year" attitude?
You know exactly how it's going to end up?
I'm on my third season with FIFA 19,and it started of well,but now that I'm leading La Liga I see all of FIFA's ugliness,scripted as hell,shit teams ping ponging their way through my defence without even looking at the ball.
Same story as every year.
Wish I could be totally brain-dead and enjoy rainbow flicking my way though 6 min games on FUT,then I'll probably enjoy FIFA
Then again,maybe this year...
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I've got no hopes up for FIFA 20 mate. I've watched enough footage now - it's same old, same old. At least with the other game they're going to stick to their vision and not back down because of the myClubbers. It's slower than it's ever been now (PES) and it's getting there, very slowly and surely. And the myClubbers play PES instead of FIFA because it's slower and not as frantic/OTT as EA's game (sorry for comparisons here but it's requred to get to the point I'm trying to get to...) So we don't get them bombarding Konami with "It's too slow, it's too hard, I want to do more tricks!" That's the FUT crowd and EA cave in to their needs each and every time.

I'm done with both EA and FIFA for a while. It's not worth it. FIFA 20 will be the same old frantic, over-the-top, end-to-end cheese that it's been for years now. Plus, and I'm like a broken record, it will be super easy in single player again so there's literally no point buyng it.
 
DigitalByDesign said:
The biggest problem with strafe dribbling is the inability to effectively just win the ball when this is being performed.

In real football doing that would allow the opposing player to easily win it..

Tricks are nice but completely disregarding the fundamentals.First touch error ect..

Imo there biggest focus this year should of been ball physics and ground passing..It’s the bread and butter of any football game..And should be laced with feel and variety.Its really lacking and one of my biggest bug bares.
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With Volta arriving i think the focus was always going to be on that and adding loads of more little tricks like the vid above. The thing is Fifa gameplay is more suited to Volta football than the 11v11 game. Fast furious, tricks galore. Volta could be fun for a few weeks like Fifa Street.
 
Mikhail said:
I've got no hopes up for FIFA 20 mate. I've watched enough footage now - it's same old, same old. At least with the other game they're going to stick to their vision and not back down because of the myClubbers. It's slower than it's ever been now (PES) and it's getting there, very slowly and surely. And the myClubbers play PES instead of FIFA because it's slower and not as frantic/OTT as EA's game (sorry for comparisons here but it's requred to get to the point I'm trying to get to...)

I'm done with both EA and FIFA for a while. It's not worth it. FIFA 20 will be the same old frantic, over-the-top, end-to-end cheese that it's been for years now. Plus, and I'm like a broken record, it will be super easy in single player again so there's literally no point buyng it.
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Same here mate,even though I had some good times with 19,right now it's just pushing buttons at warp speed to try and break down the CPU or trying to defend the CPUs laser fast passing.
What I've seen of fifa 20 is so bad,probably the worst I've seen this generation.
But they lure you in with shiny new stuff,just have to stay strong and not bite on those.

Who knows,maybe we'll stand there around Nov Dec with a copy each?
I'm really disappointed with what's been presented so far.
And I'll bet you the same issues are still in,like resting Aguero/Salah and having Harry Kane winning it with 16 goals and spurs the league with 69 points.
I tried to see if any of the beta guys could test that out with a sim,but you know,no go,dead silent!
 
Mikhail said:
I've got no hopes up for FIFA 20 mate. I've watched enough footage now - it's same old, same old. At least with the other game they're going to stick to their vision and not back down because of the myClubbers. It's slower than it's ever been now (PES) and it's getting there, very slowly and surely. And the myClubbers play PES instead of FIFA because it's slower and not as frantic/OTT as EA's game (sorry for comparisons here but it's requred to get to the point I'm trying to get to...) So we don't get them bombarding Konami with "It's too slow, it's too hard, I want to do more tricks!" That's the FUT crowd and EA cave in to their needs each and every time.

I'm done with both EA and FIFA for a while. It's not worth it. FIFA 20 will be the same old frantic, over-the-top, end-to-end cheese that it's been for years now. Plus, and I'm like a broken record, it will be super easy in single player again so there's literally no point buyng it.
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It’s weird..almost like we’ve gone full circle...

Pes being so stagnant for so long and Fifa being the more technological advanced game that Just couldn’t be touched.

Reminds me so much of 1998 and the World Cup game against ISS 98.

Fifa had the tech,the faster more streamlined gameplay.While ISS was more considered,slower and didn’t forget the basics or fundamentals.

I guess when your raking in 5 billion just from FUT..Your priority is going to be to just appease those users that just want shallow gameplay..(no offence hardcore users that play FUT)..

For me so indicative of games nowadays and how so many just don’t like a challenge or want to work at anything..It’s all instant gratification(it’s broken because my pass/shot didn’t go to feet,went wide..or why is it so difficult to break down the defence..I can’t score on every attempt or the refs don’t work because I was cautioned even when I took the man and ball).

I can’t fathom why anyone wouldn’t want to apply more thought to passing and have to think about every touch they make.The repetition kicks in to quickly otherwise.

Sorry if slightly off topic!..
 
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Chris Davies said:
If it wasn't for the sliding feet, and the way animations regularly cut off at their half-way point and then speed up to finish it (i.e. a foot absolutely flies back to a standing position at double-speed as the player lets go of the stick or what have you), it'd be okay.

I'm sick of the "jelly-leg" stuff, and it's only since Frostbite that it's crept in. Breaking animations (and breaking legs) so that the player's desired input isn't ignored and the game feels fluid.
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Definitely, I've been playing a lot of last gen FIFA this week (09, WC2010 & 11) and none of this is present.

It's funny how, Similar to Modern & Retro PES's juxtapositions how the older games just seem to have better respect for the fundamentals. Sure you have to accept the inferiority in transitions between animations but the the games were a lot more grounded despite the complaints about sprint pressing and stamina at the time.

I think '11 onwards, The games became amazing in the animation department (& '11 sorted the players models out too) but that was also the foreshadowing of skillz & saturated wonder-goals - Yet it's still tame by comparison to where we ended up post Frostbite.
 
rockstrongo said:
But we're all going to come back to the same question ,no matter how much we grasp on to some straw of hope.
Ai is going to pass the ball with no adjusted body position with 88% accuracy,doesn't matter if it says Aston Villa or Barcelona on their kits.

Don't know why people still have their hopes set for "maybe this year" attitude?
Click to expand...
It's the same for both games, though, when it comes to AI. Without making this the comparison thread, I read @Mikhail talking about how PES's CPU were passing around at the back in one of the Twitch feeds of 2020 and I thought "yes, finally, the AI will be worth playing" - so I went to watch the feed and... they were only doing that after kick-off. The rest of the time, your players are in an attacking phase when the AI get the ball, and so they just counter, counter, counter. Direct passes straight forwards, every team. Absolute shite. (In my opinion.)

That, on top of the AI bullshit I posted in the comparison thread earlier, just kills it. Two wrongs don't make a right but my point is, it's a bit annoying to constantly read that "FIFA's just shit" when...

A) I honestly think both games are as bad as each other but in different (sometimes opposite) ways, and B) we all end up going "fuck it" and buying the games, telling ourselves it'll be okay (which I'm definitely doing at the minute, as is everyone in the PES thread) - but it never lasts, because they never really move on.

The only solutions are either A) both games take a year's break, B) new engines (hopefully next year for both games), C) a third football game competitor comes along and makes something amazing (which would probably take years to get right anyway), D) we all start playing online (which is exactly what they want) or E) we just stop playing football games.

I got a lot of joy out of FIFA 19 and hope to do the same with 20 if the gameplay's just a little better (the pace is certainly better, or at least, it is in half the vids). If not... I'm addicted to Football Manager again...
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
Definitely, I've been playing a lot of last gen FIFA this week (09, WC2010 & 11) and none of this is present.

It's funny how, Similar to Modern & Retro PES's juxtapositions how the older games just seem to have better respect for the fundamentals. Sure you have to accept the inferiority in transitions between animations but the the games were a lot more grounded despite the complaints about sprint pressing and stamina at the time.

I think '11 onwards, The games became amazing in the animation department (& '11 sorted the players models out too) but that was also the foreshadowing of skillz & saturated wonder-goals - Yet it's still tame by comparison to where we ended up post Frostbite.
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Fifa wc2010..I loved that..And the soundtrack..
 
Chris Davies said:
It's the same for both games, though, when it comes to AI. Without making this the comparison thread, I read @Mikhail talking about how PES's CPU were passing around at the back in one of the Twitch feeds of 2020 and I thought "yes, finally, the AI will be worth playing" - so I went to watch the feed and... they were only doing that after kick-off. The rest of the time, your players are in an attacking phase when the AI get the ball, and so they just counter, counter, counter. Direct passes straight forwards, every team. Absolute shite. (In my opinion.)

Two wrongs don't make a right but my point is A) I honestly think both games are as bad as each other but in different (sometimes opposite) ways, and B) we all end up going "fuck it" and buying the games, telling ourselves it'll be okay (which I'm definitely doing at the minute, as is everyone in the PES thread) - but it never lasts, because they never really move on.

The only solutions are either A) both games take a year's break, B) new engines (hopefully next year for both games), C) a third football game competitor comes along and makes something amazing (which would probably take years to get right anyway), D) we all start playing online (which is exactly what they want) or E) we just stop playing football games.

I got a lot of joy out of FIFA 19 and hope to do the same with 20 if the gameplay's just a little better (the pace is certainly better, or at least, it is in half the vids). If not... I'm addicted to Football Manager again...
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E) Play older and better football games.
 
Chris Davies said:
It's the same for both games, though, when it comes to AI. Without making this the comparison thread, I read @Mikhail talking about how PES's CPU were passing around at the back in one of the Twitch feeds of 2020 and I thought "yes, finally, the AI will be worth playing" - so I went to watch the feed and... they were only doing that after kick-off. The rest of the time, your players are in an attacking phase when the AI get the ball, and so they just counter, counter, counter. Direct passes straight forwards, every team. Absolute shite. (In my opinion.)

Two wrongs don't make a right but my point is A) I honestly think both games are as bad as each other but in different (sometimes opposite) ways, and B) we all end up going "fuck it" and buying the games, telling ourselves it'll be okay (which I'm definitely doing at the minute, as is everyone in the PES thread) - but it never lasts, because they never really move on.

The only solutions are either A) both games take a year's break, B) new engines (hopefully next year for both games), C) a third football game competitor comes along and makes something amazing (which would probably take years to get right anyway), D) we all start playing online (which is exactly what they want) or E) we just stop playing football games.

I got a lot of joy out of FIFA 19 and hope to do the same with 20 if the gameplay's just a little better (the pace is certainly better, or at least, it is in half the vids). If not... I'm addicted to Football Manager again...
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Probably the same for both games,but I've seen better gameplay (suiting me) on Pes than on FIFA.
Once again,I'm not comparing wish both were good.
But I can't have another year of a CPU just passing it around with no body position at all,throw in CPU not fouling and having city winning the league on 67 points and you got yourself a very bad game.
FIFA isn't for me this year (so far)
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
Definitely, I've been playing a lot of last gen FIFA this week (09, WC2010 & 11) and none of this is present.

It's funny how, Similar to Modern & Retro PES's juxtapositions how the older games just seem to have better respect for the fundamentals. Sure you have to accept the inferiority in transitions between animations but the the games were a lot more grounded despite the complaints about sprint pressing and stamina at the time.

I think '11 onwards, The games became amazing in the animation department (& '11 sorted the players models out too) but that was also the foreshadowing of skillz & saturated wonder-goals - Yet it's still tame by comparison to where we ended up post Frostbite.
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I'd love to retry those older titles, even if on PC they were all still "half games" (or completely absent, like the 2010 WC) if I recall correctly.

However, what always put me off of that era was the absolute dullness of first touch control. Prior than sliders you had just a very few, random control errors and that was it.
 
DigitalByDesign said:
I guess when your raking in 5 billion just from FUT..Your priority is going to be to just appease those users that just want shallow gameplay..(no offence hardcore users that play FUT)..
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Kind of off topic but i was watching a documentary on Youtube earlier about PS3's Playstation Home.

They had a vision for home that didn't quite work out and they didn't really know how to improve it or give it a purpose but they soon learned that people would be willing to pay for ingame clothing & accessories and they ended up raking in millions just by making bullshit digital content for your avatars and people ate it up lol, no questions asked.

That was back in 2012 and here we are now and it's a business model that now serves as the foundation for almost all modern games, people aren't playing them for their surface representation. It's for the triviality of paying for minor distractions, The small dopamine hit and the following emptiness so they can do it all over gain as soon as the income replenishes or the developers make a new theme of the week.
 
papinho81 said:
E) Play older and better football games.
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Good point.

I want to love FIFA 16 but it's just a little too zippy for me on console (and my PC can't run it properly any more). Probably a better game than 19 is but I find myself coming back to 19 for the little things.

Other than FIFA 16, the other older games (PES and FIFA) just don't keep me invested. Only Football Manager manages it, I can play Football Manager for hours (until I get annoyed that my terrible players are terrible and go to bed out of frustration, but that's how it should be).

That first month or so of 19, playing on slow with sliders, and knowing Tranmere's big bulky centre back could save us from relegation because his attributes separated him from everyone else... Oh my God I loved it. That was old-school PES elation, I was having a great time. I took videos of how important he was, and how realistic the counter-goals were.

Then it got way, way too easy, and it was completely ruined.

Form arrows are gone now, so I'm hoping that won't happen this time.

I played 19 for about 2-3 months of the last year combined, which isn't a huge amount, but I've generally enjoyed it. If 20 is an improvement then I'll enjoy that too, especially the career mode. Just as long as teams play their stars now (they've promised this @rockstrongo) and it's a bit more challenging.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
It's funny how, Similar to Modern & Retro PES's juxtapositions how the older games just seem to have better respect for the fundamentals. Sure you have to accept the inferiority in transitions between animations but the the games were a lot more grounded despite the complaints about sprint pressing and stamina at the time.
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Your mind will fill in all missing animation frames, which is why i'm not obsessing about it and why even games like sensible soccer were enjoyable, rewarding and fun back in the day. What it will absolutely will not do is fix the game balance for you which is the single biggest trick in getting any sports game feeling like the real thing.

Fifa 17 has the usual janky frostbite animations and player models but i'd play it anytime, simply because of the much better game balance. I also don't believe for a minute that a new engine or next gen consoles are going to magically fix the games in any way. Everything wrong about them is a conscious design choice.
 
Chris Davies said:
It's the same for both games, though, when it comes to AI. Without making this the comparison thread, I read @Mikhail talking about how PES's CPU were passing around at the back in one of the Twitch feeds of 2020 and I thought "yes, finally, the AI will be worth playing" - so I went to watch the feed and... they were only doing that after kick-off. The rest of the time, your players are in an attacking phase when the AI get the ball, and so they just counter, counter, counter. Direct passes straight forwards, every team. Absolute shite. (In my opinion.)

Two wrongs don't make a right but my point is A) I honestly think both games are as bad as each other but in different (sometimes opposite) ways, and B) we all end up going "fuck it" and buying the games, telling ourselves it'll be okay (which I'm definitely doing at the minute, as is everyone in the PES thread) - but it never lasts, because they never really move on.

The only solutions are either A) both games take a year's break, B) new engines (hopefully next year for both games), C) a third football game competitor comes along and makes something amazing (which would probably take years to get right anyway), D) we all start playing online (which is exactly what they want) or E) we just stop playing football games.

I got a lot of joy out of FIFA 19 and hope to do the same with 20 if the gameplay's just a little better (the pace is certainly better, or at least, it is in half the vids). If not... I'm addicted to Football Manager again...
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The idea that the next gen is the solution isn’t something I buy into..Or this idea of 2 years cycles..

This will be the third year of frostbite and should be a evolution of everything that was laid down in the last two years.

Both companies have engines that are more then capable of producing physics and AI that is beyond anything we have seen.

There just both putting more enthuses into cosmetics and building up the GFX bicep..

The only real evolution we have seen has been graphics,cosmetics and animation.

Everything else has been served up in one form or another on much weaker hardware in a bygone era.

I completely know where your coming from though..Although I believe and think your being a little to harsh on the other game(wink).
 
Madmac79 said:
I'd love to retry those older titles, even if on PC they were all still "half games" (or completely absent, like the 2010 WC) if I recall correctly.
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Yeah i had to suck up the inferior visuals for the superior gameplay on PS3, The game looks fine from a far because all you're thinking about is the gameplay. Then the cut-scenes trigger and you start longing for your naked nan to grant your eyeballs relief instead.

Madmac79 said:
However, what always put me off of that era was the absolute dullness of first touch control. Prior than sliders you had just a very few, random control errors and that was it.
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I hear what you're saying, I can't remember which year they introduced first touch error (12 or 13?) but it does feel like there's not much consequence to the way you pass, This was when the start of the "ping pong passing" phrase coming into prominence in FIFA (PES was still PS2 HD engine until 2011 so it was impossible to ping pong on those games) but i found it could be at least countered with playing on semi-assisted passing to open a bit of error up and encourage you to slow it down. Semi & Manual are a lot less assisted back then they are now on FIFA 19.

But that doesn't really solve the problem of what happens when the AI get the ball..
 
@Chris Davies I probably enjoyed 60-70% of my games with FIFA as well.
The game I played the most last year since PES 19 was rubbish.
But I really need to see some "realistic" gameplay to be able to like it.
Not just fw fw fw.
Which has been the case on fifa 18 and 19.
If that happens,and fouls,and realistic league tables,great!
But 18+19 says differently,that's why I'm holding any purchases off
 
papinho81 said:
E) Play older and better football games.
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Anyone said FIFA 14? :WOOT:
Jokes apart, I am another one that considers some older FIFA games better than the ones we have now.

I'm finding hard to choose which one to play: FIFA 11 for PC, which is basically FIFA 10, blew me away back in the day but got blown out of the water by FIFA 12 which in turn got hammered by FIFA 14, which is the only one that can really compare somehow with FIFA 16 now... But I find shortcomings with all of them:
  • FIFA 11 for PC is too fast for my standards, even on 'slow, and you often see opponents rocketing at you to win the ball like there's no tomorrow. @MafiaMurderBag I don't know which is the last-gen platform you're using, but... Is FIFA 11 any different on PS3/Xbox 360? I might aswell give it a try.
  • FIFA 12 for PC is vastly superior but has serious problems with Impact Engine (on certain occasions, players will just rocket away from a tackle like they've been fired with a cannon).
  • FIFA 14 for PC is almost perfect, apart from some graphical glitches and the almost magnet-like auto-completion standing tackles which ruin the immersion.
  • FIFA 14 for Xbox One is probably better than its PC counterpart, but still has that auto-win-the-ball thing that gets on my nerves. On very few occasions I felt the absence of the driven pass, but it's something I can absolutely live without if I need to.
  • FIFA 16 for PC is also almost perfect, but team tactics are more shallow than the ones you'd see in FIFA 14.
I still have to try FIFA 10 for PS3 in a proper way (and I also have the two World Cup games to try, haven't played much with my PS3 lately), maybe it'll be the one to surprise me.
 
*aLe said:
Anyone said FIFA 14? :WOOT:
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I hadn't played FIFA 14 since 2014, but I played around 4-hours of it last night with a friend and honestly, we had more fun with that than we've had with FIFA 19 in recent times (since last fall before EA ruined it). We had some genuine "out of your seat" moments. The CPU plays more realistically than in FIFA 19 and PES 2020! That, and the manual passing in Ignite era FIFA games isn't completely broken like it is now. It's hilarious and disheartening.
 
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Since Frostbite I think FIFA has been a wonky shoddy mess of a game. 14 on PS4 I seem to remember was good and I used to play this a lot on Co-Op Seasons with a mate until the early hours of the morning sometimes.

FIFA 19 felt like I was controlling a team of power boats. Too fast, wonky and strange collision physics. Hated it.

20 looks similar to 19 (obviously) but worse still apparently during the early days of the BETA the gameplay was slower and at a more realistic pace. Then some FUT players complained it was too slow and cumbersome so.... EA patched the BETA to speed the fucker up! NOOOOOOO
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
Since Frostbite I think FIFA has been a wonky shoddy mess of a game. 14 on PS4 I seem to remember was good and I used to play this a lot on Co-Op Seasons with a mate until the early hours of the morning sometimes.

FIFA 19 felt like I was controlling a team of power boats. Too fast, wonky and strange collision physics. Hated it.

20 looks similar to 19 (obviously) but worse still apparently during the early days of the BETA the gameplay was slower and at a more realistic pace. Then some FUT players complained it was too slow and cumbersome so.... EA patched the BETA to speed the fucker up! NOOOOOOO
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You hit the nail on the head for me with ‘controlling power boats’...I’ve never been able to my finger on it but that’s exactly what it feels like! Controlling power boats!

Until they leave Frostbite and/or make a separate game for the FUT kiddies, the series will just eventually turn into Rainbow Goal Simulator. “Score 1000 different types of Rainbow Goal with Neymar or even your favourite Icons Eric Cantona, Dion Dublin and NOW just added: Robbie Mustoe!
 
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