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FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

kobayashi said:
Nope, disagree and agree with Rob

With passing, you aim everywhere and anywhere. Your head the majority of the time you spot a place when you want to pass to and strike the ball with the weight you feel is needed to make the pass either to a player or into space.
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I dont want to have a discussion about this. But with passing you aim everywhere? Sorry, but i cant get this. If your teammate is in front of you, you need to aim foward and manual will do the rest. Same for shooting, otherwise there's no shots to the side lines.

Assisted guys (forced to play manual) in fifa shooting in the opposite way in 1 on 1 situations? Im sorry but manual is needed!
 
PU6HY said:
Are we talking IRL here? If so, I can say 100% that I've aimed off target! The ball curls doesn't it? I aim off target and then allow for the ball to curl into the net.
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No, the principle is that you aiming to hit the target. You aim to curl the ball so when it reaches it's destination it reaches the target. i feel this argument is clutching at straws if I'm honest.

You do not visualize in you mind, I'm going shot and the ball will go wide of the goal. you visualize the ball curling inside the post. When you have an attempt at goal you always have an intention so the ball finishes on target.

I think this is a very good explanation and breakdown of the definition of the term 'shot' Especially in football terms.


azur said:
I dont want to have a discussion about this. But with passing you aim everywhere? Sorry, but i cant get this. If your teammate is in front of you, you need to aim foward and manual will do the rest. Same for shooting, otherwise there's no shots to the side lines.
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When you pass in football there's an infinite amount of positions a player could appear for you to pass to him directly or pass into space isn't there? That's what i mean.

Assisted guys (forced to play manual) in fifa shooting in the opposite way in 1 on 1 situations? Im sorry but manual is needed!
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You need to stop assuming manual will stop the kids, it won't! I remember the world cup game and i was bored of assisted so setup some manual games in the lobby. Many of the players who joined the games i setup didn't even know it was on manual.

I remember this one dude just played the game normally (he was pretty good). He very almost beat me (he was Spain, i was turkey) and he again, didn't even know the manual function was on! If it wasn't for a bug which game me a last minute equalizer. These kids if forced to play manual will adapt very quickly and we will see even more exploits in manual just as we do with assisted.

I think manual needs a lot of work in FIFA, it's not sensitive enough, there's not enough variety in what you can do. It's too clunky in reference to when you facing away from the person you want to pass to. I love the concept of putting balls into space but there is much work needed to make it 'mean' something.
 
kobayashi said:
When you pass in football there's an infinite amount of positions a player could appear for you to pass to him directly or pass into space isn't there? That's what i mean.
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Sure, but i dont get whats the problem with 100% manual shooting. Are you saying FIFA 10 manual shooting was more appropriate?


kobayashi said:
You need to stop assuming manual will stop the kids, it won't!
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Mate, did i say that? I've been playing manual since 08, im really aware of that. The game is a mess, assisted or manual. Thou, playing manual with the right people can be....different. So, i really cant get the problem about 100% manual shooting. How on earth would i press left when goal is at your right? Assisted allows that!
 
azur said:
Sure, but i dont get whats the problem with 100% manual shooting. Are you saying FIFA 10 manual shooting was more appropriate?
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azur said:
Mate, did i say that? I've been playing manual since 08, im really aware of that. The game is a mess, assisted or manual. Thou, playing manual with the right people can be....different. So, i really cant get the problem about 100% manual shooting. How on earth would i press left when goal is at your right? Assisted allows that!
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Best shooting mechanics for me was FIFA 08's semi shooting where if aimed at the goal you have a degree of freedom of where you wanted the ball to go.

You talk about why i would aim right when the goal is on the left? In theory, yes that's silly but importunity i mean it dosen't mean you will score if you do that anyway? Also i mean not even the most abusive kid would do that. I don't think your example there is a good example of what makes manual shooting better but it's identifying for me a blank space where a function could be implemented.

Inspired from this is football back in the PS2 which i think had a nice shooting layout. Every shot was aimed at goal but the direction you put the controller determined the type of shot shot!

I'd like a system where the direction you aimed at determined you instinct when shooting.

- If you aimed the left stick on target at goal you shot would be measured. Maybe an animation before where the player would set himself to get comfortable before shooting

- If you aim 90 degrees left or right at the goal it should produce an instinctive shot where the player is less inclined to wait to set himself (good when under pressure) and will shoot tot he near or far post. Obviously this would be less precise and more erratic than aiming the stick at goal.

- If you press shot with no direction input, again an instinctive shot but without a necessary preference towards the near or far post.

- If you shoot 180 degrees away from the goal or as you put it like this:

i press left when goal is at your right?
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Maybe that should indicate a daisy cutter. The power determines how long the animation takes for him to set up.

Now this idea, does this not implicate skill into shooting? I mean compare that to manual where is aim the stick at goal and hope or nothing? Also when you consider like i said earlier the angle to aim at goal with manual shooting is small so most shots would be more or less the same due to the limited degrees you could aim at?
 
I'm not sure about someone's earlier argument that correlates button press to passing thought process. In real life the difference in time taken to complete a leg movement to pass the ball 2 metres or 10 metres is that not as different as that on FIFA manual, where you need a lot longer charge up time on the button to make the longer pass.

The same applies to shooting - in real life, whether you hit it through instinct or whether you have a lot of time and you pick your spot by aiming just wide of the keeper or really wide to sneak just inside the post, you don't have the same sensitivity as the left stick on FIFA.

So in real life you might aim for the inside of the far post on a 1 v 1 from 6 yards out but something goes wrong and you put it JUST WIDE. On FIFA, due to the sensitivity of the stick, and the camera angle you're playing on, aiming for the inside of the far post could end up where you want, straight at the keeper, near the corner flag etc. So while it's giving you more control, manual shooting is also giving you less control/precision because your aim has to be a lot more precise than if you were standing behind the ball in real life and hitting it yourself. Player camera helps a lot here for full manual shooting but most people don't want to play that way.
 
polakis said:
So fifa12 e3 presentation today past and still nothing? Where are the gameplay vids?
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E3 was useless, I saw the show where everyone showed his game
and everyone showed Gameplay sections except Fifa 12, Rutter
again only talked about the trinity of Gameplay innovations
and they showed the old trailer again and again and again.
Furthermore Fifa 12 was behind closed doors. Do not expect
anything till July or maybe Gamescom. :YAWN:
 
danyjr said:
First touch is fine. Just cause you're used to PES's terrible 'elephant touches' doesn't mean Messi shouldn't be able to easy stop a soft pass coming towards him.
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:CONFUSE:

Have you ever watched a football match? Probably not. I play with stats down to 1 (ball control) and even so it's a bit perfect sometimes.
 
danyjr said:
First touch is fine. Just cause you're used to PES's terrible 'elephant touches' doesn't mean Messi shouldn't be able to easy stop a soft pass coming towards him.
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Sorry mate, didn't know we had 13,000 Messis. My bad.
 
Lami said:
Sorry mate, didn't know we had 13,000 Messis. My bad.
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azur said:
Have you ever watched a football match? Probably not. I play with stats down to 1 (ball control) and even so it's a bit perfect sometimes.
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It is nowhere as bad as you claim. I play Arsenal on FIFA, the difference between Van Persie and Walcott's first touch is a whole galaxy. There is more unrealistic perfection in general in FIFA due to the market EA have targeted and that is what everyone agrees and it is not exclusive to first touch, its crosses, chipped balls, shots, passes, everything. But my god if you think PES's first touches are fine then YOU should be starting to watch some football. Heck even my first touch is better than Messi's.
 
Both games have too even touches. Sure there might be some difference in length, but that length is always the same for that player's every touch. That's the problem I have with ball control in both games. Every single touch should have a degree of error in them depending on stats and situation.

In FIFA it looks much worse though because there are so many quick touches all the time. Now with the precision dribble it looks even more like a joke when you jump quickly from side to side with ball control that Messi in real life couldn't even pull off. I mean the perfect touches with BOTH feet at that speed is just silly.
 
danyjr said:
First touch is fine. Just cause you're used to PES's terrible 'elephant touches' doesn't mean Messi shouldn't be able to easy stop a soft pass coming towards him.
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Last year I started career with Real Betis, it was really cool watching EVERY player of Córdoba, Elche, Valladolid, etc. having a spectacular first touch controlling 50 meter passes.Realism: 100/100
 
danyjr said:
First touch is fine. Just cause you're used to PES's terrible 'elephant touches' doesn't mean Messi shouldn't be able to easy stop a soft pass coming towards him.
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Absolute bollocks.

Messi's first touch is almost too good in PES, I've hardly seen him lose control of the ball unless it was absolutely blasted at him or arrives at an awkward height. Never have I seen him unable to "stop a soft pass coming towards him".

Anyone with a decent "Technique" attribute has great first touches in PES - I just scored a goal this morning where Pires took a 50-60 yard diagonal long ball with a perfect touch on the bounce into his stride before finishing.
 
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It is really hard to convince this crowd. I give up and leave indefinitely. Just FYI, the crowd on Evo-Web are just as bad as the ones on FIFA forum, same biased attitude and trash talking, the only difference is that the crowd is older and more mature, although 'mature' is kind of an overstatement.

Don't get me wrong, I have finally been liking PES more than FIFA this year but I can't blind myself into not seeing the PES's numerous problems. You hear no one talking about PES's ping-pong passing. It is a game breaking issue especially when we're talking about a football simulation. Try to play online against a glory hunter and see how he will make you chase a ball for 90 minutes. You know there is something wrong with the passing system when you find out that the most efficient way to play as Wolves is possession football! Not to mention shooting is in a pretty bad state as well, or at least their matched animations don't look right. Through balls are far too easy to pull off, goalkeepers are very bad (both animations and shot blocking), and the switching system is so broken that even people on this forum have been outspoken about it. AI, player awareness and collision detection (or lack thereof) are other major issues.

Oh an so much individuality when in PES 2012's trailer Ashley Cole takes a free kick with his right foot*!

*- FIFA's is much shittier in that respect, but that don't make PES's good
 
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Nobody was saying PES is perfect.

Glad you're leaving, your contribution won't be missed. :BYE:
 
Don't leave mate. You just have to appreciate that some of the people here prefer critisim to understanding the balance between a game and real life.

At the end of the day it's lot easier to play "football" with your thumbs. So there is a massive dependabce on ea/konami to program in the difference. Apparently it's not that easy.

With regard to first touch I think your right there is a huge difference between say fabregas passing to a player and song. This makes the recipients touch more noticeable.

Honestly weather the storm and there are some very good points/conversations that do happen here.
 
Nobody seems to have an issue with understanding that there needs to be a balance struck in terms of simulation - obviously the amount of goals needs to be exaggerated to give realistic scorelines/stats in shortened matches.

However, the game should still promote realistic and intelligent play, and the way EA have designed most aspects of the game means they don't.
 
danyjr said:
It is really hard to convince this crowd. I give up and leave indefinitely. Just FYI, the crowd on Evo-Web are just as bad as the ones on FIFA forum, same biased attitude and trash talking, the only difference is that the crowd is older and more mature, although 'mature' is kind of an overstatement.

Don't get me wrong, I have finally been liking PES more than FIFA this year but I can't blind myself into not seeing the PES's numerous problems. You hear no one talking about PES's ping-pong passing. It is a game breaking issue especially when we're talking about a football simulation. Try to play online against a glory hunter and see how he will make you chase a ball for 90 minutes. You know there is something wrong with the passing system when you find out that the most efficient way to play as Wolves is possession football! Not to mention shooting is in a pretty bad state as well, or at least their matched animations don't look right. Through balls are far too easy to pull off, goalkeepers are very bad (both animations and shot blocking), and the switching system is so broken that even people on this forum have been outspoken about it. AI, player awareness and collision detection (or lack thereof) are other major issues.

Oh an so much individuality when in PES 2012's trailer Ashley Cole takes a free kick with his right foot*!

*- FIFA's is much shittier in that respect, but that don't make PES's good
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Actually there's quite a few of us who hammered PES's faults to death during the first couple months (on the other side of the forums). You really shouldn't be making sweeping accusations based on a couple posts - sure there are some here who prefer PES, but many of us found the same flaws in PES that you cite; for me personally they were gamebreaking. And I agree with you about first touch in PES - it's over-exaggeration of how poor the best players can be is just as annoying as FIFA's too perfect ball control.

But yes, you will find it really hard to convince this crowd that first touch - one of, if not the, most important fundamentals of football - does not need a big improvement in FIFA. Because it does. This is an old topic and there's no need to get into it again in depth, but suffice it to say that the perfect "magnetic" first touches in FIFA should NEVER happen.
 
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