FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

Here's a question. If EA get the Argentinian league is it because they bought the rights to it individually or because it's always been included with the Fifa license but now they've suddenly decided to add it?
 
That's a good question. Does the Fifa license cover everything in a league? The generic kits for some Italian (and Spanish?) teams come to mind. Maybe they had the league license but not the full licenses for all the teams?
 
^ Very good question. I was just thinking about this after hearing a bit about PES. Brought back the age-old debate about FIFA having the advantage over PES in terms of the licenses but I started to wonder if FIFA's licenses are exclusive like Madden's with the NFL, or they can simply pony up the cash that Konami can't to get the FIFA licenses?

Could Konami conceivably license as many teams as FIFA? I heard that they've got La Liga licensed this year and if that's the case then why not the Prem, Ligue Un, the Primeira, etc.?

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And i saw this on Fifasoccerblog:


Fifa 12 | FULL Gameplay | Milan vs. Barcelona | PART 2 | HD

The game really looks like shit. Seems like they turn and spin around on the ball with even more ease this time around. I've clearly been on FIFA's back for a few years now, but this really doesn't look good at all. It's not enough to say that assholes are playing the game, it's the fact that this shit can still be done and that this game just looks so fucking...off.
 
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To be honest I think it looks good. But it still looks so freaking fast. Sure it is great teams, but I would still like it slower, not necessarily the ball speeds or the straight movement speeds, but the players need to be less agile with turning and such.

EDIT: Look at 4:22 in the video above, when the goalkeeper passes the ball to defender 1, who then passes it to defender 2. Defender 2 just blasts forward when he receives the ball. That movement alone looks so arcadey and unbalanced, the speed of the pass to the defender is OK but then the player just goes superhuman. Looks like he is attached to a string being pulled by 5 people off the left side of the screen.
 
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Blatantly on Fast setting, surely? Looks like it. And played by a moron, as always.

At 4:05 there's a turn on the 18-yard line by Ibrahimovic that looks like a nifty bit of Precision Dribble :PUKE: . Looks like they've re-balanced the match ratings too.
 
It's pretty much pointless to try to draw conclusions from videos of that quality.

People forget but every year it's the same: the game will neither be as good as the hype (e.g. a "Revolution") nor as bad as most of the gameplay videos imply.
 
About 35 seconds in when the ball goes out look at the player crab walking in a circle haha. Super fast.

CPU did pass the ball backwards quite a few times, game looks way too fast (maybe it was on fast?).
CPU still pings passes wherever it wants and closes down ridiculously on defense.

Liked the precision dribble from Ibra, but I don't see that working against the CPU. Only against a player that was pressuring constantly (or whatever the new form of pressure is).
 
Well after playing PES 2012 again there is no doubt i'll be getting FIFA this year. Any improvement over FIFA 11 and I'll be happy. PES is still too clunky and rigid for me to enjoy.
 
daikirai said:
About 35 seconds in when the ball goes out look at the player crab walking in a circle haha. Super fast.

CPU did pass the ball backwards quite a few times, game looks way too fast (maybe it was on fast?).
CPU still pings passes wherever it wants and closes down ridiculously on defense.

Liked the precision dribble from Ibra, but I don't see that working against the CPU. Only against a player that was pressuring constantly (or whatever the new form of pressure is).
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To be honest, though I haven't played FIFA in a while I felt like the CPU in the PES demo that I played yesterday was RIDICULOUS when it came to pressure. I mean, it felt like someone in FIFA holding the first AND second defender pressure buttons and chasing me LITERALLY all the way up the field. And catching me, btw. Tell me how Evra can receive the ball near the left side of the 18-yard box, start running up the sideline, and get caught from behind by Van Bommel. And to hell with that "oh I'm stumbling because I'm being fouled but the ref isn't going to call anything and oh, I just lost the ball" animation. I have Robinho doing it to Rooney all the time.

Again though, PES killed it on the presentation and movement (in that it's more deliberate than ice-skatey) but the pressure killed it. And while PES doesn't have issues with the back line losing it's shape, the CPU just cheats its ass off and dribbles or passes through your team at will.

I also don't understand why the game seems to enjoy making my players run after defenders in certain situations, or completely remove control of a player from me at random times.

The PES 2011 demo felt way better. Now I might just check FIFA out as more people will have it. What happened to that game?
 
hitmanuk said:
Well after playing PES 2012 again there is no doubt i'll be getting FIFA this year. Any improvement over FIFA 11 and I'll be happy. PES is still too clunky and rigid for me to enjoy.
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The second demo will show if they have worked on the blatant flaws in the game. So far though PES 2012 hasn't changed much except making defending the same across the board. Rio is as good a tackler as Nani. With PES I've always struggled to feel in control. I still believe that is the case. FIFA at the very least looks like it won't be worse than 11 so I can put up with it.
 
ant0n said:
The second demo will show if they have worked on the blatant flaws in the game. So far though PES 2012 hasn't changed much except making defending the same across the board. Rio is as good a tackler as Nani. With PES I've always struggled to feel in control. I still believe that is the case. FIFA at the very least looks like it won't be worse than 11 so I can put up with it.
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My main gripe with it besides the awful camera angles is the lack of freedom in play. I know PES fanboys will disagree with me but it doesnt come close to FIFA. I can put the ball where ever i like on full manual.
 
Murkurial said:
And while PES doesn't have issues with the back line losing it's shape
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It really, really does.

porto3.jpg

vidicibra.png
 
nerf said:
It really, really does.

porto3.jpg

vidicibra.png
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Well, there goes that theory. I guess there isn't much difference between the two games beyond PES's relative lack of fluidity lending to it looking more like a real game of footy.

Perhaps I was too blinded by the rage brought on by watching Robinho routinely dribble past everyone. And if he wasn't taking someone on (he, Ibra, Seedorf, whoever), they seemed to be actively running away from him. It was weird. I don't recall the 2011 demo playing like this and though it wasn't enough to put me off FIFA then, I figured that w/ a year of refinements and FIFA continuing to rest on its laurels, this could be the year.

This is not the year.
 
The second image that nerf posted is one i took. If anybody is interested i was controlling Ferdinand (who is in the middle of trying to tackle Boateng). I didn't run back with Vidic, that was the computer.
 
hitmanuk said:
My main gripe with it besides the awful camera angles is the lack of freedom in play. I know PES fanboys will disagree with me but it doesnt come close to FIFA. I can put the ball where ever i like on full manual.
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You can try but can you tell me ALL your passes go exactly where you want? There's still too much room for error on manual given the small error in thumbstick can result in an exponentially larger error when the player kicks the ball.

I love how the ball is a free entity and the shooting feels great on manual but despite being able to string some good passes together even on manual, I still find it breaks down the rythym of the game a little bit too much due to passes going away from feet when in reality you would want to hit someone's foot, not play them into space.
 
hitmanuk said:
Well after playing PES 2012 again there is no doubt i'll be getting FIFA this year. Any improvement over FIFA 11 and I'll be happy. PES is still too clunky and rigid for me to enjoy.
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I can understand there are various elements in PES you don't like and prefer FIFA but I think you should qualify that "clunky and rigid" statement.

If you mean passing, shooting etc, then sure I understand your comparison to the freedom of FIFA manual but in terms of player movement, the more I play both games the more I see that FIFA's animations are very stop start. Players turn unrealistically (dribbling cones isn't how people turn in a real game).

There is definitely too much standing still happening from players, and the lack of being able to pull the CPU formation out of shape very easily reaks of rigidness.
 
hitmanuk said:
Well after playing PES 2012 again there is no doubt i'll be getting FIFA this year. Any improvement over FIFA 11 and I'll be happy. PES is still too clunky and rigid for me to enjoy.
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I feel exactly the same, I even still play FIFA11 regularly but not online because ppl exploit and ruin the entire game for me. Ten years ago I loved PES and FIFA made me sick to the stomach, now it's the opposite...

Maybe the second demo of PES will get me interested in PES again after four years without it, but it would have to improve massively.
 
hitmanuk said:
Well after playing PES 2012 again there is no doubt i'll be getting FIFA this year. Any improvement over FIFA 11 and I'll be happy. PES is still too clunky and rigid for me to enjoy.
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Im waiting for the second demo but i agree to be honest. I put the demo on yesterday and turned it off after one half, its bloody awful in all fairness. I still cant quite get my head around how people see that game as realistic, its nothing of the sort.

The second demo is going to have to be monumental to sway me to buy this year. At least on fifa for its flaws it has half decent ball physics and mostly full manual play.
 
Dryzer said:
Im waiting for the second demo but i agree to be honest. I put the demo on yesterday and turned it off after one half, its bloody awful in all fairness. I still cant quite get my head around how people see that game as realistic, its nothing of the sort.

The second demo is going to have to be monumental to sway me to buy this year. At least on fifa for its flaws it has half decent ball physics and mostly full manual play.
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I thought I was on my own with this opinion but im in total agreement. I mean years ago back in the ISS days and early Pro Evo WE days the series was immense but it hasn't developed, or not as much at it should have. I see assisted passing and shooting the exact same as auto aim on a shooter. Pointless. A good game no matter of the genre for me needs as much freedom as possible

My comment on the ridgidness on PES is the fact that its missing animations and the player movements aren't very good. I'm not saying FIFAs are amazing I'm just saying PES aren't very good either.

On FIFA manual maybe you can't put the ball anywhere you like but you have the opportunity to if you are good and it varies the game massively.

Finally after watching some more videos you can see that the collision detection is miles off again. I've seen numerous headers where the ball moves and there is no contact with the head and the ball and it looks so obvious. It was in last year and wasn't fixed in the final version.

I'm sorry but I don't see how this is going to massively improved in the next build. Definite miss from me this year.

Sorry if this seems a little jumbled but I'm at work trying to multi task :)
 
I'm the same, I've played 10+ matches on the PES demo now trying to force myself to like it and I just can't get over how clunky and out of date it plays and looks.
 
hitmanuk said:
I thought I was on my own with this opinion but im in total agreement. I mean years ago back in the ISS days and early Pro Evo WE days the series was immense but it hasn't developed, or not as much at it should have. I see assisted passing and shooting the exact same as auto aim on a shooter. Pointless. A good game no matter of the genre for me needs as much freedom as possible

My comment on the ridgidness on PES is the fact that its missing animations and the player movements aren't very good. I'm not saying FIFAs are amazing I'm just saying PES aren't very good either.

On FIFA manual maybe you can't put the ball anywhere you like but you have the opportunity to if you are good and it varies the game massively.

Finally after watching some more videos you can see that the collision detection is miles off again. I've seen numerous headers where the ball moves and there is no contact with the head and the ball and it looks so obvious. It was in last year and wasn't fixed in the final version.

I'm sorry but I don't see how this is going to massively improved in the next build. Definite miss from me this year.

Sorry if this seems a little jumbled but I'm at work trying to multi task :)
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And you know what mate im not a big hater of Pes, even though i've been Uber critical of them over the last few years. I used to buy in WE from play asia because it was such a brilliant unsurpassed game on ps2.

But i just dont see the depth people speak about. The only think i think Pes has going for it is the player models and over all visuals which i still prefer.

But the game itself, especially the demo feels so sticky and dare i say it scripted, it just makes me despair. Even the shooting feels random and convoluted as if the cpu picks out when you hit the top corner and when you pile it over the bar.

I listened to the WENB podcast the other day and they were saying the game they played was amazing, but i don't know if i can believe them, as they are in cahoots with Konami. They could be right and come release day we may have a an amazing game on their hands, but for my money, in a year, Konami have too smaller a team to make the necessary massive changes needed to get this game right up their, and i dont mean catching up Fifa i'm talking about becoming a football experience you NEED to play.

Im looking forward to Fifa. I dont understand the kicking it gets, i honestly dont. If EA hadnt pulled their finger out we'd have no decent footy titles on this gen. For me anyway and taht would be unbearable.

Yeah it has its flaws and its not perfect but i can pick it up and have 8 times out of ten a very enjoyable game of it.
 
But surely even the most biased of people can see PES has some things which are much better than FIFA.

AI being one, which if you like to play the CPU is a massive factor.

Defending, compared to honing in on the missile aspect of FIFA its a total mismatch with actually needing to take skill and patience to retrieve the ball.

dribbling is superior also as just you can actually use your small Xavi and Iniesta's to play at a tempo to control the game rather than FIFA which forces these players of the ball strength wise or needing you to play a fast tempo not to get tackled.

Im not bashing FIFA I just think it's clear to see both games do things superior to each other and its then best to see which suits you.

FIFA for example possesses, great animations but this is a hindrance to the inertia and momentum aspect.

FIFA does have the teams play a far more structured setup (if you play 4-4-2 its extremely clear to see at all times) but the lack of AI movement makes it one dimension and your repeating the same patterns of play which isn't how football works, especially Barcelona's 4-3-3 which is so rigid compared to what they actually play which is movement all over the place.

Goalkeepers are far superior in FIFA.

The manual debate is something which is probably the fundamental which makes people pick one over the other I think, either you think it adds depth (the for crowd) or you think its unrealistic and just silly for Ronaldo to be hitting the corner flag because your thumb didn't hit the correct sweet spot on the analogue.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
But surely even the most biased of people can see PES has some things which are much better than FIFA.

AI being one, which if you like to play the CPU is a massive factor.

Defending, compared to honing in on the missile aspect of FIFA its a total mismatch with actually needing to take skill and patience to retrieve the ball.

dribbling is superior also as just you can actually use your small Xavi and Iniesta's to play at a tempo to control the game rather than FIFA which forces these players of the ball strength wise or needing you to play a fast tempo not to get tackled.

Im not bashing FIFA I just think it's clear to see both games do things superior to each other and its then best to see which suits you.

FIFA for example possesses, great animations but this is a hindrance to the inertia and momentum aspect.

FIFA does have the teams play a far more structured setup (if you play 4-4-2 its extremely clear to see at all times) but the lack of AI movement makes it one dimension and your repeating the same patterns of play which isn't how football works, especially Barcelona's 4-3-3 which is so rigid compared to what they actually play which is movement all over the place.

Goalkeepers are far superior in FIFA.

The manual debate is something which is probably the fundamental which makes people pick one over the other I think, either you think it adds depth (the for crowd) or you think its unrealistic and just silly for Ronaldo to be hitting the corner flag because your thumb didn't hit the correct sweet spot on the analogue.
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I agree the a.i is slightly better although aided by some cpu cheating to make it challenging. I just tweak the custom tactics slots and i get a good game out of it that way.
 
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