Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Gran Turismo 5 is a great example of a series where the AI has changed little, if at all, since the first game in 1997. It's much easier to implement and sell aesthetic changes than it is AI.
FIFA 12 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter danyjr
- Start date
Mate, you should see how shocking bad F1 2010 is though! It's incredible! Really is incredible. All the AI do in practice/qualifying is either cruse round or speed up next to you stay on your gear box, overtake you then STRAIGHT away let you pass.
In races the AI ONLY works when you can see them! All the times in qualifying and practice are faked, makes you wonder how a company could release a game in that state with AI. Not even PS1 was that fake. It just goes to show you just because we are in 2011 dosen't mean the AI dosen't have issues. I remember Formula 1 97 had a very nice qualifying system and yes the times where not faked. I'm not even going to mention how far it's behind Geoff Crammonds series in AI!
Shame that games these days are more about hype that actually quality. Games have commercialized a lot in the last few years. With online gaming being so huge now companies can't be bothered it seems to program good AI. Not to mention how big budgets and licensing has killed of competition.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
In GT's case it's because it's more of a driving sim than a racing sim. All the effort in GT goes towards improving the experience when time trialling at the Nurburgring. In that respect the sophistication of the experience of one car on the track is far deeper than it used to be. There is at least a difference between cars too, so that you do feel the personality of different vehicles. But the lack of attention paid to the AI, and the lack of attention that interaction with other cars has received, really jumps out.
Again though, for me GT at least has the excuse that it focusses on depth in the experience of driving. It's car porn, more than it is a game. I don't feel that FIFA has an equivalent angle.
Again though, for me GT at least has the excuse that it focusses on depth in the experience of driving. It's car porn, more than it is a game. I don't feel that FIFA has an equivalent angle.
The AI on F1 2010 in practice/qualy is completely faked, the times they post up are unrelated to the speed of the car going round the track. Having said that, programming good AI for practice, qualy, and race in an F1 game is a lot more of a challenge than programming good AI in most racing games - it's a lot more complex system. You've got fuel simulation, tyres going off, different types of tyre, weather, pitting strategy, engine mappings and so on. It's not like in GT5/Forza where you're trying to design it to go round a track as fast as possible, it's infinitely more complex to get something convincing than in GT5/Forza. In GT5/Forza it simply needs to be able to go round fast, and maybe deal with a poorly designed pitstop or basic tyre wear.
Hopefully they'll do better next year anyway. First try I guess.
AI is certainly hard to get right though, and it's so often the biggest flaw in the biggest games. Some of the truly best games do very well because they manage to escape the need for AI, which, even when is good, cannot match up to a human brain.
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In the 2010 season refueling was banned and the only simulation needed was engine management where cars would cruise fro a certain amount of time in the race because you couldn't go flat out, you fill the car up say 90% so the car is lighter and easier to drive
The fuel sim is just the cars burning off a full tank of fuel from the start to finish so handling improves through.
Still rod there's no excuse. Grand Prix 3 got these things right in 1999! (simulating 22 cars and amount of grip each one had) (fuel simulation) (aggressive overtaking and blocking) With much more! That was basically a Ps1 game or a PC built game. Why can't codemasters do this in 2010? I mean i spent a fair amount of time on F1 2003, you could actually watch the AI cars set their laps in practice etc.. That already is 10 times better AI to F1 2010!
Also you wouldn't get this bullshit where you would come in for your stop and come out and find the back markers who started on prime who are on average 5 seconds a lap slower than the leaders leading the race and setting laptimes they shouldn't be capable of.
That's why i was only comparing it to F1 games in the past as i see games like Forza/GT as completely different. Those are Customer driving simulations where you race say 5-20 laps with basic rules! With the occasional endurance race. Those are different to the
You mean Call of Duty? there isn't much AI needed in that (single player etc..) Online there's no need for AI
.
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
i can already forseen next years fifa 13 big feature.
pro impact engine +
pro impact engine +
sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
i can already forseen next years fifa 13 big feature.
pro impact engine +
Rutter via Game Informer May 2012- "Last year we introduced the impact engine, which was a revolutionary tech designed to give FIFA a more realistic look and feel. In the process of integrating this new leap in technology, we realized that there were some flaws in the final product. In FIFA 13, we have totally overhauled the impact engine so that players avoid each other when not in active play. This new engine dubbed "Pro Impact Engine +" is a huge new revolutionary step in the ultimate simulation of football."
There is no excuse, but, that's the way it is these days. Marketability comes #1. You just have to hope that the developers care enough to fix it for next time. Same as everytime. In many ways, F1 2010 is great... in many ways it's awful. Still, probably my most played game right now as there is hardly anything else to play ^.^
You mean Call of Duty? there isn't much AI needed in that (single player etc..) Online there's no need for AI
I was more referring to games like Battlefield (the old ones) than I was Call of Duty. Though I do think some of the Call of Duty games are good, I certainly wouldn't call most of the recent ones any good.
It was Codemasters first crack at the whip, and it was a pretty ambitious choice. Comparing it to GP3 is a bit harsh, when that was the third game in the series. I mean, for example, GP2 didn't have weather in it - F1 2010 has one of the most advanced weather systems in any game. There is a lot of great stuff going on under the hood which older games didn't do...
The question is whether Codemasters can manage to polish their game up to be a great sequel, or whether they'll fail to deal with it and hand us another broken game. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt this time at least.
FIFA on the other hand has had so many chances... It seems incredible that they've still got some stuff the way they do.
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Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Well one of the big selling points for PES this year is the AI, and the press that played it at E3 seems to really like it and hype it. So their invested time in it might pay off pretty good.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Is there a good critical preview out from the E3 PES demo? Can't be bothered to have to filter out the hype at WENB. Looking at the early Konami vid they seem to have hardly improved the amount of animations, something I was hoping they would really push on with this year, as last years AI, in regard to teamtactics, was really good imo.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
http://www.allsoccer-football.com/tag/impressions/
There's a PES 2012 write up from 3 different sources
There's a PES 2012 write up from 3 different sources
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Rutter is funny guy. How many bullshit he said for years
FIFA 08- motto relism. 6 months bullshit about this addition.
FIFA 09 - motto collision system. 6 fukin months about this addition.
FIFA 10- motto 360 degree. 6 fukin moths about this addtions.
FIFA 11 - motto personality +. 6 fukin moths about this addtions.
FIFA 12 - motto impact engine. 6 fukin moths about this addtions.
FIFA 13? F.u.c.k You.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Wenb (sorry) are playing the latest build tomorrow, so that could mean other fan-sites/journalists are playing too, which means there may be other play-test comments to read.
Apparently animations have been addressed significantly, although still not up to Fifa standards.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Tnx Calcio/Jamez.
Thespeedster84
Champions League
- 4 October 2010
Its been mentioned that journo/press will play newer build around http://www.idefexpo.com/time
Okay i am curious, are there any members here that regularly get a chance to playtest and stuff. Especially for PES (yah fifa too). I mean looking back at the editing community and some constructive talks here evo-web really deserves it. Anyone ?
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Could have sworn I was in the Fifa thread......
Romagnoli, Nick Cave, mfmaxpower and myself (I think that's all) all have opportunities to play FIFA early, and have already. Rom, Nick and me all played the game in early June, and will again soon. Some other people from this forum have been to preview events before too.
As for PES, not sure, WENB certainly is the place to go for that.
kevano22
TDWFYU
- 2 August 2003
Yes and when you play the preview code, they like to change it lots then release the game rendering a trip to play the early code pointless.
And by change lots, I don't mean for the better.
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Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
Sad to say that is the case sometimes, plus there are certain things we can't talk about, but we do give all the feedback we can and we do champion points from the guys of the forums.
I'm sure we would all love to get involved earlier and be able to influence the way the game moves forward more but at least we are there and we are being heard by the guys in Canada...
Whilst there are definitely issues with the way the programme works, I still think it's enormously courageous of EA to allow people to play (and then speak) about the game at an early stage so candidly. We just have to keep mindfully pushing for more and earlier stuff, whilst using the platform to try to cause change.
It would be foolish not to use the opportunities as strongly as possible, and while it's easy to be sceptical, if not cynical, and while there are plenty of reasons to be pessimistic, it still gives me a big reason to be optimistic.
As a whole, the community just needs to ramp up the pressure. It's a long road probably, and I'm sure there are many who feel that PES is likely to get it together and if it does, what's the point, but I think it's important for both games that FIFA is strong. It would be desperately disappointing if, after FIFA 08's encouraging start this generation, FIFA became the arcade game for the masses once again compared to PES's realism. Some probably think we're already back in that situation.
It would be foolish not to use the opportunities as strongly as possible, and while it's easy to be sceptical, if not cynical, and while there are plenty of reasons to be pessimistic, it still gives me a big reason to be optimistic.
As a whole, the community just needs to ramp up the pressure. It's a long road probably, and I'm sure there are many who feel that PES is likely to get it together and if it does, what's the point, but I think it's important for both games that FIFA is strong. It would be desperately disappointing if, after FIFA 08's encouraging start this generation, FIFA became the arcade game for the masses once again compared to PES's realism. Some probably think we're already back in that situation.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
Yep. We don't want PES to languish like it did since 2006 either, so in the end competition drives both companies to improve their product. I mean, how long would it have taken for right stick player switching to make it to PES if FIFA never implemented it? It's 2011, and PES has finally introduced a feature that has been in its rival game for at least 3 years now.
Rod the issue is that EA take people like hyspeth whatever views on the game more seriously than they do yours. Despite you far, FAR better understanding on what needs to be sorted in FIFA for it to improve! I fear for FIFA when you got him saying FIFA is the most realistic representation of football and trying to justify his skill moves being a realistic representation of football with a once in a lifetime goal he posted of that Greek second division side scoring a bicycle kick from a rabona cross (One in a lifetime that goes in man!)
It's like they take a few of your points try and tweak them in, then ask that hyspeth dude along with the other skill monkeys who just want a game which suit them and allows them to do skills past 8 players and score.
So it's about getting enough of your good points to stay in the game and give us something we can enjoy.
It's like they take a few of your points try and tweak them in, then ask that hyspeth dude along with the other skill monkeys who just want a game which suit them and allows them to do skills past 8 players and score.
So it's about getting enough of your good points to stay in the game and give us something we can enjoy.
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romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
No, that's not true.
The problem is that there is so much criticism of EA that stuff like this gets said and everyone starts to accept it. Before long EA are stealing babies from prams and training them to work in the marketing department, or gave Osama a hideout in Pakistan so that more soldiers would buy EA games to take their minds off the war.
There's no doubt that EA have to consider the Hjerpseths as well as the Xaors, but talk of his word being taken more seriously is way off.
The problem is that there is so much criticism of EA that stuff like this gets said and everyone starts to accept it. Before long EA are stealing babies from prams and training them to work in the marketing department, or gave Osama a hideout in Pakistan so that more soldiers would buy EA games to take their minds off the war.
There's no doubt that EA have to consider the Hjerpseths as well as the Xaors, but talk of his word being taken more seriously is way off.
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The "aerial threat" gimmick is in theory a good addition but there is no way E.A will implement (based on previous experience) it correctly.Football isn't as simple as having 2 scenarios of David Villa and Peter Crouch.
What happens if you have a tall striker but who in real prefers to have the ball at his feet than in the air ? Football is way too subtle and I'm afraid EA will never get it.
What happens if you have a tall striker but who in real prefers to have the ball at his feet than in the air ? Football is way too subtle and I'm afraid EA will never get it.
That's what it seems like to me. hjersphes been talking to the devs for ages, way back since 2008! Most of his videos are made in connection directly with EA and they even did a video interview with him!
I feel since if you go on youtube and you see all his videos with millions of hits, you would think they would make games with him in mind.
I do very much hope I'm completely wrong and what i'm saying is way off like you say.
Like Thierry Henry, Loic Remy? One other thing is that if Peter Crouch was at Barca, would pedro, messi etc... automatically cross to him every time he was in the box? and abandon their tiki taka?
Is this the twat who does the silly commentary with his vids? I want to kill that guy.
nope thats ksa okjbet whatever:
YouTube - FIFA 12 Gameplay Trailer BREAKDOWN
I'm talking about this guy:
YouTube - FIFA 11 - "Warfare II" Online Goals Compilation