FIFA 12 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter danyjr
- Start date
Sorry but PLAYER PRO INTELLIGENCE!
can't stop laughing
NOW THE CPU WILL CROSS TO A TALL PLAYER IN THE BOX!
So groundbreaking they made a video about it! I mean that Santiago guy looks like he more bothered about his looks and banging chicks than actually developing FIFA. Can't blame him though. Maybe that why they come up with such crap like PLAYER PRO INTELLIGENCE!
Whats next? PLAYER PRO CELEBRATIONS? Or PLAYER PRO OFFSIDE TRAP.
PLAYER PRO PASSING PLUS RABONA DELUXE.
In all seriousness, EA really need to tone down the buzzwords and shows us some solid gameplay! That's what we want. All this PLAYER PRO is no different from the last, what 10-11 years?
Funny because if you look at statistics, Dani Alves is the player with more crosses to the box in La Liga, and by far.
It's true that he won't always cross, specially if Messi is around to play some quick 1-2. But if he goes to that deep, he will cross a lot! Really, it depends on the position of the forwards inside the area vs the deffensive line. So it seems to me a very cheap way to ad a stupid buzzword to the box and ignore the basic problems of the game, while adding other problems.
They can't base things in specific situations like this disregarding positional play!
Too many buzz about nothing. It's getting ridiculous.
It's true that he won't always cross, specially if Messi is around to play some quick 1-2. But if he goes to that deep, he will cross a lot! Really, it depends on the position of the forwards inside the area vs the deffensive line. So it seems to me a very cheap way to ad a stupid buzzword to the box and ignore the basic problems of the game, while adding other problems.
They can't base things in specific situations like this disregarding positional play!
Too many buzz about nothing. It's getting ridiculous.
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romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
:/
Every now and then I cringe at how carried away people get having a group bonding experience by beating down on EA.
To be fair, crossing into the box more often because the target is an aerial threat, is new to football games as far as I'm aware. And I haven't seen the statistics but I highly doubt that the crosses that Dani Alves supplies into the box are high, lofted balls. The vast, vast majority of them will be balls along the turf or barely head height. If you want to complain about something then I'd complain that they don't seem to have put in crosses like these, rather than complaining that they've tried to get the AI to dynamically alter its tactics based on the players on the pitch (and from what I've heard the aerial threat business isn't the only aspect to 'Pro Player Intelligence').
kevano22
TDWFYU
- 2 August 2003
None of ANY of the supposed new features matter if assisted shooting is still as easy to score as it is in FIFA 11.
I play manual v randomers online (all assisted of course).
The amount of times I will beat people who've only had 1 shot and scored from it is RIDICULOUS. The keepers are DUMB when it comes to assisted shooting. It's soooo easy.
I play manual v randomers online (all assisted of course).
The amount of times I will beat people who've only had 1 shot and scored from it is RIDICULOUS. The keepers are DUMB when it comes to assisted shooting. It's soooo easy.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
The problem with that video, as suggested above, is that there are SO MANY teams and players in FIFA (hoarding licences anyone? 
) that there is no way they can make that concept apply to everyone. Sure it makes sense for Crouch and Villa but not everyone is that clear cut...and even if they were, are EA seriously going to program it for every player? Don't think so!
The thing that still makes me want to throw my controller through the TV when playing FIFA is the turning animation a player makes (usually the A.I.) Look at where the player sees it's Villa in the box and he decides to cut back then go back to the byline. It looks like he is sidestepping in a slow waltz. WHY!!! The AI always does that move; it's repetitive and clunky. In real life, a player doesnt turn around in a circle by doing a 3 point turn. He might shield the ball or take smaller touches but never what the FIFA A.I does.
) that there is no way they can make that concept apply to everyone. Sure it makes sense for Crouch and Villa but not everyone is that clear cut...and even if they were, are EA seriously going to program it for every player? Don't think so!The thing that still makes me want to throw my controller through the TV when playing FIFA is the turning animation a player makes (usually the A.I.) Look at where the player sees it's Villa in the box and he decides to cut back then go back to the byline. It looks like he is sidestepping in a slow waltz. WHY!!! The AI always does that move; it's repetitive and clunky. In real life, a player doesnt turn around in a circle by doing a 3 point turn. He might shield the ball or take smaller touches but never what the FIFA A.I does.
jaygrim
TheAllSeeingEye
PRObullshit.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
The problem with that video, as suggested above, is that there are SO MANY teams and players in FIFA (hoarding licences anyone?
No they wouldn't hard code it for every player. That's not how anyone makes football games. It's a logic thing that scales up and down based on attributes. Crouch and Villa were picked based on their differing levels of 'aerial threat'. One being a massive bloke, one being small. But that aerial threat value, much as if it was an individual spoke on a player attribute hexagon, varies from player to player, so the likelihood that the ball will be lofted into the box varies too.
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doncherrati
Captain
hey guys, i`m not so active on the commenting part but rather on the reading part but now and i can not resist the urge to post something that could benefit the discussion, so here another suggestion for FIFA12 xbox 360 version, what if real depth, real perspective is possible, i`m not talking about regular 3d television blablabla, but this :
YouTube - Kinect Glasses-less 3D
you`re playing virtual pro mode, with the player camera like pes( behind the player), but now with much wider view, this would only spice up the experience, you`d almost think your on the pitch. i think something like this with better graphics, better sound, better commentary (better ambiance) they would achieve every fifa gamers`dream.
YouTube - Kinect Glasses-less 3D
you`re playing virtual pro mode, with the player camera like pes( behind the player), but now with much wider view, this would only spice up the experience, you`d almost think your on the pitch. i think something like this with better graphics, better sound, better commentary (better ambiance) they would achieve every fifa gamers`dream.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
To be fair Jamez, anyone that has had a good long session on the offline ML till tell you there is certainly substance to this system. I've felt it many times. And as you say, thats all that counts. Konami dont use 'Buzzwords' for the sake of it. It they mention it, it's there. Infact, they usually go the other way, and dont mention features that are actually there and prominent. The First Touch in PES 2010 being a MASSIVE one.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
But when it was first introduced in PES2008 it made no difference at all. It was woeful. Konami announced it as a big feature. That was my point.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Yup. It took another two years to get anything meaningful out of it. You can't then just judge FIFA's equivalents on their first outings.
There are plenty of people who would say total freedom is pretty overblown as well, given that even when you take the simulation into account 2011's still far from totally free.
There are plenty of people who would say total freedom is pretty overblown as well, given that even when you take the simulation into account 2011's still far from totally free.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
...Since when has Crouch scored headers? He has about as much power in his neck as wet tissue. Bloody EA, they just don't get it!
Will be so interesting to see how much of the talk actually translates into production. Hopefully the moaners (myself included) will have egg on our faces.
Will be so interesting to see how much of the talk actually translates into production. Hopefully the moaners (myself included) will have egg on our faces.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Fair enough Jamez, I jumped the gun bud, apologies. It was the Teamvision 2 where I actually felt the system working. My bad. PES 2008 I refuse to believe actually even existed.
My problem with it is that EA is doing things in a cheap way. For instance, tying this "cross or not cross" with player traits, when in real world the positional play is at least as important as "traits".
For instance, and following the Alves case, he does a lot of lofty balls in fact. For example, the first ever goal of Villa was a header after a lofty Alves ball. Granted, they will equally try to do low crosses also, but this is not what we're discussing, isn't it?
I mean, it's ok to have traits and to have some actions more frequently because of them, or temaplay based on those traits. That's great if it works. But to work properly, EA has to work a lot more on the positional and tactical play of individuals vs teams. For instance, Messi is a good header actually, and Alves and Xavi supply him more crosses than you would think of. I get Messi will never have the "aerial thread" trait, but if he's alone in the 2nd post, no player of Barcelona would hesitate to cross to him. That's the kind of thing that worries me. That traits end up being a cover for having poor tactical and positional read of the play by the cpu.
It's like those plays in which 2 CPU players go alone towards the keeper. It's bloody hard for the cpu to detect "superiority" in this cases. I get that traits can help distinguish between players, but the basic logic has to be there before building this. And by now, it isn't. The day we see a pass back in midfield by the CPU, then we will be onto something.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
I wonder if he won't cross it to Villa even if he is not marked by a defender. Since they think Personality+ was so good I doubt this will be well implemented, but who knows.
BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Arsenal
so if you are playing with your be a pro player (just starting out and all traits are low) and want to improve your header trait, you can't because nobody will cross it onto your bonce?
Infact if your stats are shit in that case, none of your team will pass it to you either
Infact if your stats are shit in that case, none of your team will pass it to you either
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
The only PES I refused to buy. It should have never existed. Konami needed to take a year off.
I judge what's there in front of me. Team vision didn't work for two years, Personality + and Pro Passing clearly need much more work. The difference is EA make a huge noise about their new features compared to Konami so when they completely fail to deliver it makes them look a bit silly.
'Total freedom' wasn't the case as it turned out, I think everyone agrees with that. But last year was an almost revolutionary change for the PES series that hugely improved the game, so although total freedom wasn't entirely accurate, it's impact on the game was immediately obvious and worth the fanfare.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Agree. I'm sure people wouldn't mind the EA buzzwords either, if the game itself was improved enough. Which is probably the bottom line for everyone else too.
Re: aerial threat. So it's actually a trait? Sorry for misunderstanding (I've not seen any of these videos and it wasnt made clear in the webcast).
Mental. I have no idea why they'd do it like that, except perhaps because players like Crouch aren't exactly Les Ferdinand when it comes to heading. I guess if they just used attributes then the lower leagues wouldn't have aerial threat players because the stats are artificially clipped.
Re: aerial threat. So it's actually a trait? Sorry for misunderstanding (I've not seen any of these videos and it wasnt made clear in the webcast).
Mental. I have no idea why they'd do it like that, except perhaps because players like Crouch aren't exactly Les Ferdinand when it comes to heading. I guess if they just used attributes then the lower leagues wouldn't have aerial threat players because the stats are artificially clipped.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Glen's just told me aerial threat is a shield in FIFA 11. Chamakh has it. The plot thickens.
nerf
Forming triangles
"Aerial Threat" is one of the Specialities.
A Speciality is a shield icon awarded due to simply possessing a combination of attributes. In Aerial Threat's case, it is recognition of having values of certain amounts in the Height, Heading and Jumping categories.
I would doubt that this whole thing is based on Specialities though, it's just one very clearly defined example scenario. I'm interested to hear how else this feature affects AI decisions, because all we've had so far is this one Crouch/Villa comparison repeated.
A Speciality is a shield icon awarded due to simply possessing a combination of attributes. In Aerial Threat's case, it is recognition of having values of certain amounts in the Height, Heading and Jumping categories.
I would doubt that this whole thing is based on Specialities though, it's just one very clearly defined example scenario. I'm interested to hear how else this feature affects AI decisions, because all we've had so far is this one Crouch/Villa comparison repeated.
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Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
I was just about to say exactly that.
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StuartCulli
College Dropout
- 25 July 2006
- Newcastle United
Wasn't this already 'in' Fifa 11?
I think i should've explained myself better. I was laughing at how cheesy the PLAYER PRO INTELLIGENCE sounds. Who comes up with these buzzywords. Seriously, how can anyone take that phrase seriously!
Wouldn't it be better just to say. AI Improvements include AI dynamically changing it's tactics depending on it's players strengths and weaknesses!
Sounds much better!
Ping pong on PES 2011 disappears when you play 15 minutes or longer and you play on at least professional! The game is more 'ping pong' when you select 10 or 5, again my point is how on earth are you going to score with such a short space of time to play a football game?
so if you are playing with your be a pro player (just starting out and all traits are low) and want to improve your header trait, you can't because nobody will cross it onto your bonce?
Infact if your stats are shit in that case, none of your team will pass it to you either
Wouldn't surprise me if this happened!
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R
Rob92
Guest
It's another example of EA going at things backwards - trying to run before they can walk.
The work should really go on making the CPU play an all-round smart, fair and effective game of football that varies between teams, and when that's quite solid, move onto things such as this decision making system to add further depth.
The work should really go on making the CPU play an all-round smart, fair and effective game of football that varies between teams, and when that's quite solid, move onto things such as this decision making system to add further depth.
Perhaps it's something to do with the fact they seem not to recognise just how baseline awful the AI is right now? I mean, it would be impossible for any of us to sit down around a table, and when trying to work out what to improve, AI wise first, us come up with PPI. The first thing we'd probably set about dealing with would be the defensive lines.
Yet, and I suppose this is compounded every time the press pats them on the back, they seem to believe that they need to be fiddling with some quite complicated and overly specific improvement.
Yet, and I suppose this is compounded every time the press pats them on the back, they seem to believe that they need to be fiddling with some quite complicated and overly specific improvement.
Someone on the fifa forums said how he see's FIFA 11 as simply FIFA 99 HD deluxe Edition. I mean in AI terms i actually think it's not much better if better at all than FIFA 99! I mean JUST in AI as in COM AI, not in ball physics and technology obviously so people don't get confused.
Obviously in animations, technology and graphics etc. it's miles ahead but in AI, not really. You don't think this is true. look at F1 2010. I swear Formula 1 97 on the PS1 literally had much better AI than that, Let alone Grand Prix 3 or 4 especially, Don think just because we are in the Xbox 360 super HD generation games are not programmed with shit AI which is little or no better than what we had 10 years ago.
I mean why does every team attack down the middle. Why does custom tactics do next to nothing? Why do the AI visibly just run like robots into zones to specifically shoot from. as if they are blind, they don't even look around and work something out. I mean the tactics on FIFA 99 where actually better that what we have now, Hell i remember FIA 98 actually having standard tactic system and decent defensive lines!
I'd like to see to news just regarding defensive AI and formation balance in general. How the AI is programmed in that regard!