FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

How can you even argue that FIFA 11 is a better simulation of football than PES 2011?
That's pretty much factually incorrect.

Fair enough, you may prefer FIFA as a game, but is in no way a sim.[/QUOTE]



I can agree that fifa isnt a pure sim yet or i can even agree that its pure arcade...but Pes 2011 is sim?Really?For real? And then we cry every year that none of the two games is the game we want...Has anyone wonder how from We 9 Konami went 10 years behind in the next gen consoles? Seabass said after the first next gen joke pro that MAYBE THEY NEED TO STOP for a couple of years so they can make it great again...Because it was great,i had endless hours playing and patching...Did he kept his word? Noooo of course,reminds me someone from E.a...you know who. Because i remember the evolution of Pes all this years cause im 35,Pes 2011 is not a sim...and even if it was its a worst sim from the same game 6 years ago...So either way its a FAIL to my eyes
 
o S i V a 2 1 o said:
How can you even argue that FIFA 11 is a better simulation of football than PES 2011?
That's pretty much factually incorrect.

Fair enough, you may prefer FIFA as a game, but is in no way a sim.
Click to expand...



I can agree that fifa isnt a pure sim yet or i can even agree that its pure arcade...but Pes 2011 is sim?Really?For real? And then we cry every year that none of the two games is the game we want...Has anyone wonder how from We 9 Konami went 10 years behind in the next gen consoles? Seabass said after the first next gen joke pro that MAYBE THEY NEED TO STOP for a couple of years so they can make it great again...Because it was great,i had endless hours playing and patching...Did he kept his word? Noooo of course,reminds me someone from E.a...you know who. Because i remember the evolution of Pes all this years cause im 35,Pes 2011 is not a sim...and even if it was its a worst sim from the same game 6 years ago...So either way its a FAIL to my eyes
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Shearer_God said:
Neither is PES.
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Exactly. It tries very hard to be (i own the latest version and i think all of us here grew up on ISS and PRO) but there's something very wrong under the hood stopping it from coming out from under the shadow of fifa. From user input to animation output there's a link missing SOMEWHERE. So fraustrating and likely a problem that won't be solved this gen. The animations themselves are fine (as witnessed by the rendered movies Konami release) but it's their application in an archaic anamation system that's letting the side down.

The problem is EA is solveable with a year of hard graft on CPU AI. PES is far better in this field. FIFA is the only game where you can feel alone even with 10 other team mates. You feel like you're crafting your own goal Subuteo style. Pushing brainless players around until you score. EA's AI REALLY needs a look along with the short passin game. Rutter said he watch the CL final? Did he see what barca were doing? Quick short passing and moving. It's a CHORE to do this in FIFA11. It's doable in fits and starts and the player animation is fighting you the entire time.

Imo Neither games are sims YET. PES has more intention to be a sim but is NO EFFING WAY a sim. LOL the Penalty's alone are shocking. Then you have schoolboy defending to allow for 30 yards throughballs on the floor and auto crosses etc. But when I hear Seabass speak before the release of each game he says the PERFECT things everytime. It makes me wonder what he could do with EA's engine.

/rant
 
Shearer_God said:
Neither is PES.
Click to expand...
Agreed, it's not perfect, but it at least it captures a lot of the basics of football to some degree and somewhat rewards realistic decision making and the manipulation of the tactical options.

We've never really had a fully "simulation" orientated football game as such, but PES5 and 2011 are the closest we've got, both "psuedo-sims" really.
That said, a full simulation wouldn't work in terms of a football game - a 90 minute match is crammed into 10/15 minutes, there needs to be some compromises, I think PES strikes this balance quite well.

Saying FIFA is more realistic than PES is like saying Forza Motorsport 3/GT5 are more realistic than rFactor/iRacing etc.
The former is a better video game in many regards, but it would be ridiculous to say they are better sims.
 
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A lot of people mistakenly think that animations = simulation/realism. FIFA have nice animations but gameplay is not deep. It's feel script. Gameplay is something more than animations and collision system.
 
From that article in gameklip's post;
As always in FIFA heading is a 2 man thing, only one player from each team can truly challenge for the ball which defeats the whole purpose of being able to crowd out a big man in the box.
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Fuck sake EA.
 
The problem for me isn't which one is or isn't a sim, the problem is that FIFA12 wants to claim the "most realistic game ever" title, that's such an absurd thing to make the press say, when it's clearly very far from the truth... But they did, 90% of the press said the same exact thing... And people are buying it, obviously.
 
Rob92 said:
From that article in gameklip's post;

Fuck sake EA.
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Don't count on it changing for a while. Gary wrote in a PM to me (before fifa 10 I think) that the way they handle how players lock on to the ball is CPU heavy and they can't solve it unless they come up with another way of doing it. And I doubt this is something they will prioritize unfortunately. Not sure why it has to be so CPU heavy, PES always had unlimited lock on to the ball. They probably just have a really bad solution that might sit deep in the foundation of the game that might not be easy to change without breaking other parts of the game.

This is just one of many things that makes FIFA feel so predictable and scripted.

Rodelero: Thanks for the write up. Sad to see that the things I value most are still unchanged. Pretty frustrating, I hope you can convince them to do some changes.
 
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Played one game of Ultimate Team earlier, played on the default controls in order to compete. Tried to play football & pass it about. Lost 3-0 to three headers; (two from corners, one from a goalkeeper saved where his Aguero beat the CB to a header to lob the keeper... from the edge of the box).

fuck_this_shit-1618.jpg


FIFA has so many problems it's ridiculous.
 
Just seen that video for the first time and it seems to show every factor that made me stop playing 11 in the first place - players bunching, falling over each other, every challenge results in someone falling over etc etc. About the only thing that looks good is the new camera. And why does the ball seem to glide without bobbling? Very peculiar.
 
Rob92 said:
Agreed, it's not perfect, but it at least it captures a lot of the basics of football to some degree and somewhat rewards realistic decision making and the manipulation of the tactical options.

We've never really had a fully "simulation" orientated football game as such, but PES5 and 2011 are the closest we've got, both "psuedo-sims" really.
That said, a full simulation wouldn't work in terms of a football game - a 90 minute match is crammed into 10/15 minutes, there needs to be some compromises, I think PES strikes this balance quite well.

Saying FIFA is more realistic than PES is like saying Forza Motorsport 3/GT5 are more realistic than rFactor/iRacing etc.
The former is a better video game in many regards, but it would be ridiculous to say they are better sims.
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I'm ignorant at driving/racing games, but i'm pretty sure that gt5 is far closer to real life in terms of driving (not in terms of racing) than Fifa and even PES is to real football.

But I know that's not what you mean there.:))
 
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have none of you game changers drummed home that more that 2 players can challenge for a header in real life? what was their reaction?
 
"HA! Yeah, right. You'll be telling us players can't run for 90 minutes next. Priceless!"
 
So, what is a a football simulation? Since well if PES even back in it's heyday with PES 5/WE9 wasn't a full sim (which i wasn't)

What game has ever bee a full football sim? Also, what is this game we want. Funny i've never thought of it this way. Why haven't we ever had a pure simulation football game?
 
zlac said:
Because it would be boring as hell most of the time?
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Not really. Take alook at NBA2K, its fun to play as yet a true in-depth game. EA's NBA may be fun as its arcade like, but it has to stop when you can do 3 pointers with everyone.
 
kobayashi said:
So, what is a a football simulation? Since well if PES even back in it's heyday with PES 5/WE9 wasn't a full sim (which i wasn't)

What game has ever bee a full football sim? Also, what is this game we want. Funny i've never thought of it this way. Why haven't we ever had a pure simulation football game?
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Pure simulation wouldn't work unless you planned on playing full 90 minute matches.

Imagine sitting down for a bit of gaming session and playing through a mind-numbingly dull 0-0 stalemate with Championship sides for a whole 90 minutes, that would just be pointless.
As mentioned before, compromises need to be made in football games, but it's the nature of these compromises and how they're balanced that's important.
Racing sims have the luxury of being able to have eventful, realistic races even if the races are shortened to quarter of their proper length, something football doesn't share.

The way FIFA balances its issues is wrong, they provide cheap fixes to keep scorelines down rather than finding a proper balance between different aspects of the game.

Tackling too easy? Just make them manual and add a new dribbling method...
This, to me, seems like the wrong way to go about that issue - they should instead have sorted out the player momentum/inertia, that alone would almost sort the issue, then perhaps they could reduce the tackle radius/reaction times of defenders.
 
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