FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

[Rodelero]

That's true, but it needn't be the case now, at least to the extent of FIFA 08 - and there's better ways to balance a football game than with unresponsiveness and/or cheap tactics.

I think people are often quite optomistic when they imagine how simmy a game needs to be for it to be realistic. We don't need a really complex momentum model, a simple one would do, for example. EA have a tendency of making a really complex systems to solve problems like passing accuracy which are technically better than what the other game has or what FIFA needs, and then tuning it really badly.

TECHNICALLY, pro passing and vision AI are fantastically clever and make up two of the three really necessary elements to a really good passing system (the third being a good control system), but they tuned PP to be such a weak system.

Part of me wants to believe that EA will listen if the playtesters return serious, solid feedback in the right way that we can change something. I don't think it's fair to go beserk/super pessimistic/lose all hope yet, not until it's been played: but by Wednesday night, it will all be pretty clear.

 

[kobayashi]

FIFA 08 was artificially sim-like.

It had many of the same issues present in the recent iterations, but it's severe unresponsiveness forced you to play more tactically/safely due to having to plan ahead so as not to lose possession.
The right stick knock-on was extremely overpowered for the dribbler and keepers were totally inept at their near post. I could go on, but you get the point.

I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than the recent efforts, but not because it was a better game, because it simply wasn't.

Well it wasn't anywhere near as deep as PES 2011 is, but it does have much better ball physics, players felt like they weighted something which at times they don't due to animation issues in PES. it was balanced very well. Despite numerous flaws. Thats the key, balanced. Why can't EA fucking balance FIFA anymore!

I've seen this phrase on forums for various games for years, and sorry, but it's bollocks.

From experience, almost all of the issues people identify in "alpha" gameplay videos are present in final retail products, especially when it comes to FIFA.

This "early build" excuse really is nonsense.

To be fair PES 2011 looked very strage in the pre-Alpha, debug mode video we say last May in 2010!

But you have a point that, i don't think they are planning to change much! It doesn't look as if things are missing in terms of the gameplay. All they will do is tweak a few things, maybe add some more animations and that's it!

 

[Badgerman]

That brief video on the tackling looked pretty good I must say, but it seems a bit superfluous, no?

Regarding alpha stuff, I always think of it in terms of F1 - the cars change drastically from the start of the season to the end but the good cars are clear to see from the first race.

Must say I'm surprised to see the negativity, although tbh I thought football games would have progressed a wee bit more than they have...

 

[Jamezinho]

Not looking promising to me. For some reason it looks so fast and the build-up play looks pre-determined and unnatural. I gave FIFA 11 a complete miss last year and I'm not afraid to do it again if they don't tweak some of the movement.

Same.

I've seen this phrase on forums for various games for years, and sorry, but it's bollocks.

From experience, almost all of the issues people identify in "alpha" gameplay videos are present in final retail products, especially when it comes to FIFA.

This "early build" excuse really is nonsense.

Yep, if years of following the build-up to football games has taught me one thing, it's that the early build excuse is complete nonsense. What you see now is essentially what you'll get in 4 months time.

 

[Shooto]

I've seen this phrase on forums for various games for years, and sorry, but it's bollocks.

From experience, almost all of the issues people identify in "alpha" gameplay videos are present in final retail products, especially when it comes to FIFA.

This "early build" excuse really is nonsense.

What exactly are you basing this on? For all you know this video could be fifa 11 with the impact engine module inserted for demonstration purposes.

Of course this is alpha code, we are still 6 month from release so how is it anywhere near a final release.

Your negativity is really starting to grate.

 

[DuduBR9]

I watched the first 50 secounds of this newest video and it looked very disappointing to me too.

They'll never change that fucking super speed of the ball movement with perfect touchs. Plyaers are still way too light. That's not the kind of fuidity i'd like to see on a football videogame, it's not realistic at all.

I aslo didn't like the passing as well. The weight player puts on the ball seems a bit too scripted regardles of the circunstances.

Look at the ball control at 0:48, glued it on players feet regardles on circunstances again... fuck!

I don't want to sound like a Fifa hater or anything (i bought fifa 08,09 and 10), but i can't see anything revolutionary on this. The impact engine alone cant' make such difference. The short clips of this video show that many fundamentals (technique and physics) still lacking.

I think EA won't change it. Their audience is huge and they (consumers) are pretty much used to how the game plays.

 

[Rob92]

What exactly are you basing this on?

A lot of past experience of identical circumstances.

For all you know this video could be fifa 11 with the impact engine module inserted for demonstration purposes.

Of course this is alpha code, we are still 6 month from release so how is it anywhere near a final release.

But we've seen all this before, right (FIFA and PES)? A terrible gameplay video a few months before release, leading to people making excuses about it being an "early build" etc. and yet when the actual game comes around, it's shit, with the same issues as these "alpha" videos... Even as late as the demo people make the same excuse about early builds, it's always been proven to be bullshit.
So what are you basing your view that it will be different on?

I'll happily be proven wrong, I hope I am, but I'll make a prediction now that the gameplay will be almost as bad as it looks right now, quite a safe bet IMO.

Your negativity is really starting to grate.

There's a difference between negativity and being realistic.

I don't see why that would "grate", what do you want? A big FIFA 12 love-fest?

 

[DuduBR9]

wtf... 1:31

two violent slide tackles from behind and the player managed to keep going, no fouls called... Jesus Christ this can't be truth.I hope the ref gave an yellow card after the play (it shoud be red actually, but it's fifa lol, you never know if it's fair).

edit: ea, are you realy think that those slide tackes are not enough to overthrow players and make them get injuried.

 

[ant0n]

A lot of past experience of identical circumstances.



But we've seen all this before, right (FIFA and PES)? A terrible gameplay video a few months before release, leading to people making excuses about it being an "early build" etc. and yet when the actual game comes around, it's shit, with the same issues as these "alpha" videos... Even as late as the demo people make the same excuse about early builds, it's always been proven to be bullshit.
So what are you basing your view that it will be different on?

I'll happily be proven wrong, I hope I am, but I'll make a prediction now that the gameplay will be almost as bad as it looks right now, quite a safe bet IMO.

There's a difference between negativity and being realistic.

I don't see why that would "grate", what do you want? A big FIFA 12 love-fest?

Rob is spot on here. We're in June now. FIFA 12 is close to getting to the stage where features are just getting tuned and balanced. A few features will be missing but the majority should be there. Looks like EA is AGAIN going for appearance over gameplay. It's a revolving door.

 

[kobayashi]

Rob is spot on here. We're in June now. FIFA 12 is close to getting to the stage where features are just getting tuned and balanced.

By the end of June - early July, the core of the game will be set! They leave the last month or so for tweaks, bug fixes and artwork (kits etc..)

The stuff that's missing is huge, they are things which would be evident in pre-alpha code! It's things i can't see being implemented even in 4-5 months!

Also the organization FIFA reputation is being dragged rigorously through the mud right now. I'm keep and eye out for any more serious developments if any associations are expelled from FIFA etc.. Note that the English and Australian FA are pissed off about the alleged corruption regarding their world cup bids. If the FA for example pulled out from FIFA? You would assume they wouldn't want to appear in anything related to FIFA. Imagine a EA FIFA game with England not licensed or or even the Premier League/league 1 etc.. not licensed? For once, EA's game would be in genuine trouble. Yes it's hypothetical but from what I'm seeing FIFA will probably explode soon with all this corruption scandal raging on.

 

[daikirai]

But last year wasn't the game close to what sim-heads wanted? As far as speed/pressure etc. Then they changed it right before release or with that first patch. Don't remember exactly, but I remember the talk about it on here being something like that.
Whatever appeases the masses is what the game will be. And the masses want the game as shown in the Dutch video. I don't even think they'll bother making the playtesters believe anything different this time around. They'll just say fuck it here's the game we're not changing anything. But we will get 40 odd snippets from Producers/Designers saying this and that was changed to keep hope (and sales) up.

 

[Gab_]

Yeah I think Romagnoli said that the game actually took a turn for the worse after the play testers gave their feedback. So it's not that strange that we don't have high hopes about the feedback response this year. Add inertia/momentum, more realistic acceleration and unique touches with errors in them and it's a completely different game. I doubt people would stop buying the game because of those changes.

To the play testers: Do you think you could ask them why these things are not in the game even though you have asked for them before in feedback? Because if they say that they have tried it and thought it was less "fun", at least we know why they keep ignoring this. It's very obvious reading this thread that people are really annoyed about this being ignored every year without giving any reasons to why they don't want to implement it. Maybe they don't think it's important. Maybe it doesn't fit their vision of FIFA. Would be nice to know how they reason about these issues.

 

[TjaardA]

But last year wasn't the game close to what sim-heads wanted? As far as speed/pressure etc. Then they changed it right before release or with that first patch. Don't remember exactly, but I remember the talk about it on here being something like that.
Whatever appeases the masses is what the game will be. And the masses want the game as shown in the Dutch video. I don't even think they'll bother making the playtesters believe anything different this time around. They'll just say fuck it here's the game we're not changing anything. But we will get 40 odd snippets from Producers/Designers saying this and that was changed to keep hope (and sales) up.

Indeed the demo was great. But they like to fool us. Make a good build for the critics, to get a high score. Change the game again to please the casual gamers. That's just the way it works. Example: If you got 20% hardcore fans and 80% casual fans. Who are you going to please ?

 

[winston]

From the video, I'd probably be quite impressed and excited, if it wasn't for the fact that I've played FIFA11, so know exactly how it feels to play. Looks like they've simply added few new tackle/fall animations.

If it wasn't for the fact that I've played FIFA11, I might have hope that playing with lower league teams, the gameplay wouldn't be quite so fast, overly precise, perfect first touch, etc. But I have played FIFA11. Accrington will play just the same as Barca.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

wtf... 1:31

two violent slide tackles from behind and the player managed to keep going, no fouls called... Jesus Christ this can't be truth.I hope the ref gave an yellow card after the play (it shoud be red actually, but it's fifa lol, you never know if it's fair).

The game is FIFA 12, I tried it too and I can confirm that...

About referees you are right, but this has been done by producers on purpose IN THIS build because there were some flaws still with impact engine and they did not want to break the match flow too much!!!

 

[daikirai]

The thing is they will get good reviews from certain sites no matter what. Not to be all conspiracy brother on everyone, but IGN is a shithole, and a ton of people use that as their basis for game purchases. It's guaranteed a good score from IGN. Even Kotaku who I love have done a preview and given the game all sorts of praise, even though in the video it looks like more of the same with a fancy new bullet point.

 

[StuartCulli]

A lot of past experience of identical circumstances.



But we've seen all this before, right (FIFA and PES)? A terrible gameplay video a few months before release, leading to people making excuses about it being an "early build" etc. and yet when the actual game comes around, it's shit, with the same issues as these "alpha" videos... Even as late as the demo people make the same excuse about early builds, it's always been proven to be bullshit.
So what are you basing your view that it will be different on?

I'll happily be proven wrong, I hope I am, but I'll make a prediction now that the gameplay will be almost as bad as it looks right now, quite a safe bet IMO.

There's a difference between negativity and being realistic.

I don't see why that would "grate", what do you want? A big FIFA 12 love-fest?

Bore off.

 

[Torres_Liverpool]

I'll break my promise with myself to write about this on a FIFA forum (or sub-forum), but, honestly, what did you expect? Although some keep saying otherwise, FIFA isn't a sim and doesn't really want to be one. It's all pure PR crap, big words like "realistic" always sell for the general crowd.

To me this year is making everything clear, FIFA and PES are/should be separate worlds for a reason, their true intentions are completely different. PES12 looks to please it's "hardcore" fanbase with specific and objective changes in the core gameplay. FIFA12 wants to grab a much more massive number of different crowds with a somewhat generic taste. Like someone saaid (ws it here?) already, FIFA wants to be Call of Duty of football games.

PES on the other hand seems to have learned with its mistakes (at least I bloody hope they did) of trying to do the same thing. Everytime they tried, the game was criticized. 3 years of pure crap in this gen should have made them aware that there's a community, small when compared to FIFA one, that desperately wants their feedback to be heard. Next couple of weeks should show if they got the message 100%.

As for FIFA, it's a great game technically but clearly pretending to be more than it is right now...

My friend FIFA gameplay is a little better than PES... PES has better graphics...

 

[o S i V a 2 1 o]

I am pretty sure that fifa 12 will be better than 11...i am also sure that fifa 12 will not be the footie that i want and will have many flaws because E.a want to please kids and casuals...Online will be an assisted joke fest again probably but i am pretty sure again i will enjoy the game with mates at home playing almost full manual.Except the need to please the casuals thing there is another serious reason why Fifa doesnt evolve like from 07 to 10 instalments : There is no other good game in the market and there is no competition for E.a...I was a Pes lover...errrr...no...Winning Eleven lover and i play Iss and Pes 17 years now starting from Snes Iss if you remember.The thing is that the series peaked with We 9 and started to die after 10...I dont know why some of you see progression in in last years instalments,the fact is they are worst than ever compared NOT with Fifa but lets say to We9 or 10 or We 7 international,and thats not a matter of taste its a fact...So if we dont have at some point a Pes like old days dont get high hopes for Fifa...and dont forget 2012 euro that means we ll have a new game after fifa 12 so i presume they will keep some changes or innovations for that game too

 

[kobayashi]

there is no competition for E.a...I was a Pes lover...errrr...no...Winning Eleven lover and i play Iss and Pes 17 years now starting from Snes Iss if you remember.The thing is that the series peaked with We 9 and started to die after 10...I dont know why some of you see progression in in last years instalments,the fact is they are worst than ever compared NOT with Fifa but lets say to We9 or 10 or We 7 international,and thats not a matter of taste its a fact...So if we dont have at some point a Pes like old days dont get high hopes for Fifa...

No, that's just you.

 

[o S i V a 2 1 o]

No, that's just you.

So you think Pes 2008-2011 are better than We 9 at least? Christ i hope you dont mean that,pure blasphemy

 

[Ryuga-san]

wtf... 1:31

two violent slide tackles from behind and the player managed to keep going, no fouls called... Jesus Christ this can't be truth.I hope the ref gave an yellow card after the play (it shoud be red actually, but it's fifa lol, you never know if it's fair).

edit: ea, are you realy think that those slide tackes are not enough to overthrow players and make them get injuried.

+1
Nobody talks about it...In Ligue 1 or Bundesliga, this would be yellow card, at least !

EDIT : I'm talking about 0:18 in the video "FIFA 12 first gameplay HD" and 1:45 in the original video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPoR7Dh5kM#t=0m18s

 

[kobayashi]

So you think Pes 2008-2011 are better than We 9 at least? Christ i hope you dont mean that,pure blasphemy

PES 2011 is

The rest, GOD no! Especially PES 2008 and 20009, awful games, PES 2010 i liked but my god that game was broken! Spectacularly broken!

 

[Rob92]

Bore off.

Typical.

My friend FIFA gameplay is a little better than PES... PES has better graphics...

 

[kobayashi]

+1
Nobody talks about it...In Ligue 1 or Bundesliga, this would be yellow card, at least !

EDIT : I'm talking about 0:18 in the video "FIFA 12 first gameplay HD" and 1:45 in the original video.

Dudu raises a very good point which i noticed about this impact engine, i noticed something else as well. It's all good having this technology but I'm not convinced thy will pull it off, even if they do it won't have too much of an effect on the big flaws. If they pull it off or not it just just be a gimmick people will go, WOW over for a few weeks or so, then it will get old.

I hope it's just because it's in early stages but why on earth would a player be able to keep his balance after two heavy challenges from behind?

The other thing i noticed (0:57 on the youtube video) was in the video there a incident when van Perise shoots 7 yards out from goal, it's saved by Cech at point blank which is ok, it's just after the rebound finds van Persie who stretches to get the ball (he's basically horizontal, stretching for it) Cech just gets there before but the animation showed Van Perise then suddenly snapping upright (vertically) and stumbled over Cech! Very bizarre considering this impact engine is supposed to recreate unique collisions on the fly

 

[Ryuga-san]

Little information, Benzema and Mexès will be on the french cover.

@kobayashi : Yes I noticed it too...it really sucks but I really worry about refereeing...I don't want the game to become a wrestling party where you can break legs like Barton or De Jong and remain unpunished (or just a yellow card).
If these things happen often in England, in other european countries it is really really different, even little fouls are punished.

 

[kobayashi]

Little information, Benzema and Mexès will be on the french cover.

@kobayashi : Yes I noticed it too...it really sucks but I really worry about refereeing...I don't want the game to become a wrestling party where you can break legs like Barton or De Jong and remain unpunished (or just a yellow card).
If these things happen often in England, in other european countries it is really really different, even little fouls are punished.

Imagine the game turning into a destruction derby. When people are say 2-0 down will just run about fouling and going WOOOHOOOO FACEPLANT HAHAHAHAAA...

I don't think it will be broken, we will have to wait and see, I'm just naturally cynical as usual with EA ability to execute their promises.

 

[Gab_]

Impact engine looks fine to me, it's just that everything else looks shit.

 

[gameklip]

A lot hinges on the impressions tomorrow

 

[marktruman]

Are they serious? I want this game to be good, but come on

IMPACT ENGINE tm
PRECISION DRIBBLING tm

I'm guessing these two phrases will be plastered all over the box? Another stupid gimmick which will half work, like PRO PASSING tm. Why do they have to give everything names?

PLAYERS FALL OVER BETTER tm

unbelievable