FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

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I do think yesterday's game sums up FIFA and possibly pes's problem, you can't really play the Barcelona way, keeping the ball and actually TIRING and chipping away at them it's nowhere near as effective as a much more direct style of play.
 
gameklip said:
After watching that Champions League final i'm pretty sure Rutter & co took a deep breath, looked around the room and exhaled, "...right".

After 10 minutes of silence i'm sure a graphic designer could be heard muttering, "Pedro? Who's that?".
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:D

I don't know who the hell choose which teams are treated using their 18-cameras technique, but he's probably a jerk !

How can you prefer focusing on players from low teams such as Vancouver, Feyenoord and Marseille, and just despise what is probably the best team of modern football and maybe of football history ? It's a complete nonsense !
 
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Why are people assuming that EA aren't trying to get the faces for these clubs? Did it not occur anyone that maybe it isn't as easy as just turning up and taking everyone's photos?

I get that people are very cynical nowadays, I really do. But it's unfair on others to make them read such absurd drivel as saying that EA have chosen to map the faces of Vancouver (y'know, the small team just around the corner from their HQ that they can easily use to test their technology) over Barcelona. I'm fine with cynics, I'm one myself, but there is a lot of bollocks talked in here too.
 
romagnoli said:
Why are people assuming that EA aren't trying to get the faces for these clubs? Did it not occur anyone that maybe it isn't as easy as just turning up and taking everyone's photos?

I get that people are very cynical nowadays, I really do. But it's unfair on others to make them read such absurd drivel as saying that EA have chosen to map the faces of Vancouver (y'know, the small team just around the corner from their HQ that they can easily use to test their technology) over Barcelona. I'm fine with cynics, I'm one myself, but there is a lot of bollocks talked in here too.
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I admit being quite cynical on this question, but at the moment there's no clue EA are trying to get the faces for these great teams.

Let's not forget we're talking about EA, a company which is able to get almost any license, at any price, often exclusively. Therefore, negociating with great teams shouldn't be an obstacle for them, theoretically.

We also know that they make choices about the teams selected for their face technology and when their choices seem weird, it's normal to point it out.

For France, they chose PSG and Marseille and it's quite logical given they're the two most popular french teams.
But what about Spain ? What about Athletico, Sevilla, Madrid and Barcelona? Did they even try to schedule a photoshoot with these teams ? Why what has been possible for Chelsea and Juventus can't be done with other "top" teams ? What criterions do EA refer to when selecting the teams ? There are many more questions to ask...

What I think personally is they choose the teams according to a commercial criteria and not in accordance with teams results, prestige and history.
I guess there's probably logistical issues too, but what we currently know doesn't make me understanding toward them. Maybe we'll have faces for more "top" teams in 5 or 6 years, when it'll make sense for EA to include them (commercially). For the time being, FIFA sells well enough so I understand their behavior. On the other hand, being cynical may not be the best attitude but what's sure is they don't need our compassion for their logistical or financial issues either.
 
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Ryuga-san said:
I admit being quite cynical on this question, but at the moment there's no clue EA are trying to get the faces for these great teams.

Let's not forget we're talking about EA, a company which is able to get almost any license, at any price, often exclusively. Therefore, negociating with great teams shouldn't be an obstacle for them, theoretically.

We also know that they make choices about the teams selected for their face technology and when their choices seem weird, it's normal to point it out.

For France, they chose PSG and Marseille and it's quite logical given they're the two most popular french teams.
But what about Spain ? What about Athletico, Sevilla, Madrid and Barcelona? Did they even try to schedule a photoshoot with these teams ? Why what has been possible for Chelsea and Juventus can't be done with other "top" teams ? What criterions do EA refer to when selecting the teams ? There are many more questions to ask...

What I think personally is they choose the teams according to a commercial criteria and not in accordance with teams results, prestige and history.
I guess there's probably logistical issues too, but what we currently know doesn't make me understanding toward them. Maybe we'll have faces for more "top" teams in 5 or 6 years, when it'll make sense for EA to include them (commercially). For the time being, FIFA sells well enough so I understand their behavior. On the other hand, being cynical may not be the best attitude but what's sure is they don't need our compassion for their logistical or financial issues either.
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I was going to post this, but i doubt i could have said it better.

EA and FIFA aren't some plucky upstart. Their logo is plastered over every sporting event on SKY Sports right down to the statistics windows. All we ask for is more effort when reflecting authenticity. 2K and even the their own Madden series seems to realise this right down to ingame press confrences and prematch hype.

One thing Konami has always had over EA is imagination. FIFA11 is filled with the most unrecogniseable group of players yet. The Premier League (for example) is an assortment of gargoyles. Konami may have an easier time of applying player faces but they're also far better at identifying current and future talent.

With EA being the license holders it is their responsiblity to represent the game in all it's authentic glory, by hook or crook.

IMO it's fair to criticise when it even took a sustained period of of complaining and the release of PES2010 with a better Rooney model than their own to get them to update the star-head of their very own "star-player". EA are HUGE I actually though i'd see them scanning in faces at the same time SKY were sacnning the players for the CL final. That's not such a crazy notion. I mean aren't they partnered with Sky?

It may seem like a minor point but if you then asked EA to share their FIFA licence with Konami, i'm sure you know what the answer would be.

IMO it would be worth it for EA to invest time in nailing body models and faces (i've seen a slight improvement to the models this year in the new screens though). I'm sure everyone here would be squeeling with delight if they could play with all the star players of Barca vs all the star players of Man Utd or City etc scanned.

One thing that might help are that EA have now got more detailed LoD models from a distance now apparently. It'll make recognising players with skill more instant and give the game an elevated personality, which is what the FIFA series deperately needs imo.
 
Why do you think you should be privy to all the working behind the scenes? How many other companies publicly announce to the average Joe exactly how their research and licensing work is going? Why do you think that EA are almost handed these licenses with their milk deliveries? Why is it not feasible that EA suddenly turning up with these licenses is actually the result of quite a lot of work behind the scenes?

Again, there is a tendency to completely lose perspective or assume that because we aren't given hourly updates on the work that goes on behind the scenes, that nothing happens at all. I know that Orlando who ran FIFA Informer is now part of EA's licensing department and he used to really hate the kit discrepancies etc.
 
It's quite obvious licenses result from a long process, but examining who takes the decision, how it happens in concrete terms, what role exactly each protagonist play in this process has a name : sociology. By adopting a sociological point of view, we could probably explain and even justify why it's so difficult for EA to schedule photoshoots with great teams and why they can get exclusive licenses. The same happens in politics. But the Achille's heel of sociology is it avoids judging, choosing and taking a stand on an issue.

So we could also adopt another point of view, not trying to understand EA's internal issues, and judge the result for us. It means we're not doing sociology anymore, but talking about values and particularly normative values, what we should expect from them. I think it's legitimate to wonder how they choose their teams when you see some weird things (Inter won everything last year and atm they don't seem to be done, same goes for Barcelona and Manchester United). Maybe EA are already trying their best. Maybe these clubs refused. Maybe the switchboard operator from Barcelona don't like EA, maybe it's a matter of time and logistics.

But maybe EA don't really care about players likenesses and think it's not important. Maybe they have commercial designs and plan to make these teams later. Maybe their values when choosing a team for face treatment isn't football related.
As we can't get into backstage, we can't give a 100% accurate answer to these questions. But we can judge from our point of view, coolly, avoiding from changing the benefit of the doubt into an excess of compassion and indulgence.
 
I don't see at all how you could judge that not having the faces of Barcelona and Man Utd - IIRC the two biggest clubs in world football as far as fanbase goes - is a commercial decision.

The 'sociology' argument just doesn't stand up. While taking 'sociology' out of the equation, logic seems to have been thrown out at the same time.
 
romagnoli said:
I don't see at all how you could judge that not having the faces of Barcelona and Man Utd - IIRC the two biggest clubs in world football as far as fanbase goes - is a commercial decision.

The 'sociology' argument just doesn't stand up. While taking 'sociology' out of the equation, logic seems to have been thrown out at the same time.
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I didn't say it was a commercial decision, just made some speculations. That's all we can do.

Sociology wasn't an argument, it's a way to analyse things, nothing more. Anyway, let's hope every player be satisfied once the game is released, you and me included.

The debate is concluded for me mate. Peace ;).
 
In that instance where I said argument it was shorthand for the passage you posted, not sociology itself. The end result of the logic that was being applied to speculate was way off the mark.
 
The movement, abilities, physique and hairstyles all matter much more to how believable a player looks than the facial details.

I don't know if it's just me, but in FIFA I sometimes find it hard to tell players apart from the Tele cam if they have the same skin/hair colour whereas in PES it's much more apparent who's who.
 
jonneymendoza said:
how come the pc version gets shafted yet again?

fuck EA
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You mean the Impact Engine? It will be there, for some reason they just refuse to speak about PC details yet. Rutter and Co said that PC users don't have to worry and one guy that was at the FIFA talk (where the leak was from I guess) said that he had asked them if Impact Engine would be in PC too and they told him that it would.

Considering that the new physics engine kind of sits in the middle of everything, it has to be in the PC version too. Otherwise they would have to make the PC version completely by another team and that won't happen since Rutter is the producer on PC too this year.
 
I did listed to it before and it was nothing in it that I didn't know about. They basically just talk about these new things that was in the PR release.

One interesting thing is that Precision Dribbling is contextual (you can trigger it too if you want) so that it kicks in automatically when close to the edges of the field for example. They also say that it is contextual outside of the box in the final third, not sure how that will work. I mean I can see it kick in if someone gets behind you so you go into shielding mode, but if you just do normal jogging and then it just kicks in because you enter final third it would be pretty weird, probably doesn't work like that though.
 
Gab_ said:
I did listed to it before and it was nothing in it that I didn't know about. They basically just talk about these new things that was in the PR release.

One interesting thing is that Precision Dribbling is contextual (you can trigger it too if you want) so that it kicks in automatically when close to the edges of the field for example. They also say that it is contextual outside of the box in the final third, not sure how that will work. I mean I can see it kick in if someone gets behind you so you go into shielding mode, but if you just do normal jogging and then it just kicks in because you enter final third it would be pretty weird, probably doesn't work like that though.
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I imagine it's to allow this sort of play to become possible.

YouTube - Jose Enrique Goal - (Newcastle vs Notts)
 
The contextual side of it is meant to kick in more when you are by the touchline, so you can use the corners of the pitch more. That clip is a good example. Not long till you find out more details though...
 
Can they just solve the jerkiness/skating players and give us different feeling while controlling different types of players?! /Sigh
 
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