FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

nerf - have you seen the stuff about player AI at FSB? That's the only stuff about tactics and personality that was talked about in the webcast.
 
romagnoli said:
nerf - have you seen the stuff about player AI at FSB? That's the only stuff about tactics and personality that was talked about in the webcast.
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I hadn't until you just mentioned it. Lami didn't include that one in the News thread.

Sounds good, particularly the 'understanding strengths/weaknesses' parts. I would be interested to know if Player Styles are visible/prominent this time, and if the Traits that have been previously missing are being added.
 
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Decent first piece of news, still nothing to do with the core which has the most problems but the defending being rewritten is a massive step forward.
 
I know we have all been super critical in the past, but this is very, very positive news. At least they have appreciated what was wrong. It looks awesome IMO.

Now just let us hope it all works right.
 
Is nobody else noticing the stupid player physics/reactions in the first "Tactical Defending" bit of the video?...

Looks like you can basically use the "Contain" command to perfectly follow and react to any movements by the opponent.

Why couldn't they make it so you have to actually move the analog stick in the right direction? You can't dribble automatically the right way by holding a button, so why does every football game have to have some method to pressure without moving the stick correctly? I could understand when we only had 8 directions, but now we have 360 degree control on both games there's no excuse.
 
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Doesn't PES already have this "Tactical Defending" system?

I know that by holding the "Pressure" button and holding the analog stick away from the man in possession, you can "contain" them while keeping a few yards away, then push the analog stick towards the ball to stick a foot in.
 
Rob92 said:
Is nobody else noticing the stupid player physics/reactions in the first "Tactical Defending" bit of the video?...

Looks like you can basically use the "Contain" command to perfectly follow and react to any movements by the opponent.

Why couldn't they make it so you have to actually move the analog stick in the right direction? You can't dribble automatically the right way by holding a button, so why does every football game have to have some method to pressure without moving the stick correctly? I could understand when we only had 8 directions, but now we have 360 degree control on both games there's no excuse.
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Will wait and see on the contain bit as until I play it...

And the physics/reactions bit you mentioned will probably look a lot better ingame. I don't get bothered about how things look in the replays or close ups as they never look as good as when the game is in flow on a more zoomed out camera.
 
The first tactical defending bit is on a zoomed out camera, and it's not a visual thing, it's gameplay.
 
EA should just release a proper HD quality video of that now considering as it's already widespread across the net
 
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Rob92 said:
Is nobody else noticing the stupid player physics/reactions in the first "Tactical Defending" bit of the video?...

Looks like you can basically use the "Contain" command to perfectly follow and react to any movements by the opponent.

Why couldn't they make it so you have to actually move the analog stick in the right direction? You can't dribble automatically the right way by holding a button, so why does every football game have to have some method to pressure without moving the stick correctly? I could understand when we only had 8 directions, but now we have 360 degree control on both games there's no excuse.
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Well, firstly, you cannot tackle when using this button - you will always be 'containing', and you cannot move in close enough to tackle. Having said this, I think it's pretty silly, and I'm quite concerned about the sheer pace this mirrors the man - in fact it's one of the things I did write in my bit which is on FSB:

[...] the moment the movement of the ‘contain’ function seems quite unnatural: the defender mirrors the attacker almost perfectly and with immediacy, and this worries me quite a lot. FIFA has for a long time had momentum problems, and if there is one thing the webcast lacked it was any real indication that these momentum problems have disappeared. Looking at this new contain function I see something which would, if not for its unrealistic reaction/turning, be almost redundant for any decent player should jockeying be realistically balanced. When ‘containing’ you have no choice over lateral movement, and the player tends to put himself right between the ball and the goal. This is often not going to be as effective as what you could do manually, putting yourself between passes and so on. I even question whether we need the ‘contain’ button at all: it could easily become something which will either be overpowered in a similar way to the press button of the past, or utterly useless. I really hope to see over the coming months that EA respond to these criticisms and look into improving the naturalness of the contain system. It would be a great pity, given that they have made the brilliant move to re-implement a tackle button, to tarnish it with another unrealistic defensive crutch.
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I have very little to add to that. It's been noticed, and I (and others) will be sure to make this a core piece of feedback, if it still is this way when we get to play it on June 1st.

Rob92 said:
Doesn't PES already have this "Tactical Defending" system?

I know that by holding the "Pressure" button and holding the analog stick away from the man in possession, you can "contain" them while keeping a few yards away, then push the analog stick towards the ball to stick a foot in.
Click to expand...

It's not quite the same as PES's system, in fact, if it wasn't for the mirroring bollocks it would probably be quite a lot better. You essentially control the distance at which your man covers. This is quite a lot more precise (and offers a lot larger range) than PES's system which has a knack of drawing you too far in even when you use the 'Delay 2'.

PES uses a system not unlike FIFA 11's, just with the buttons moved about quite a lot - difference being that PES doesn't have the lack of momentum, stupid acceleration rates and massive tackle radii which made FIFA 11 intolerable.

Tactical defending can be better than FIFA 11, and PES 2011's systems by quite a long way. It could also be, if it releases like it looks now, a pretty big mess. No automated tackling is still a massive victory for this community though.
 
I' wait for the demo or at least the first direct feed gameplay.

What worries me is that EA care too much about the visual aspects of the game (i'm not talking about graphics), and that's what the impact engine is atm. Util we play it, it's a feature that is just impressive visiually, but what really matters is either it will force people to defend realistically or not (no insane pressure and auto-tackles bullshit).

Although, the idea behind this new feature is good really, but let's be honest, EA hardly make something balanced in some aspect, specially when it's about a new overhyped feature.

It's crucial that the refs call fouls and give yellow card and red cards properly.
 
Any idea what button is used for this defending stuff? I hope they didn't make the jockey button do this, because I rather be able to jockey around placing my player wherever I want instead of only moving closer or farther away. It doesn't seem like a finished system if you automatically get placed between the goal and the player. Sure that is where you want to be if he is about to shoot, but otherwise you will back off to make sure you cover his passing (or run) alternatives. What's the point of making sure you're 100% between him and the goal if you're in the middle of the pitch? Doesn't make sense to me. Unless this system actually lets you also move in all directions (360 around the player with the ball) and not only two directions. That way it would be more of a "lock on" thing like in some games where you lock on to the opponent and you movement is rotating around them.
 
I'm hoping they implement the tackling well. I like to play DM in club pro mode and it would be perfect for a role like that
 
Gab..Pretty sure as the X button now works as tackle similar to O being slide tackle..(which now registers at a higher level so no more sliding in at feet when the ball is knee-high) I would take it the Jockey shoulder button will be the one used in the new contain system...
 
Nick Cave said:
Gab..Pretty sure as the X button now works as tackle similar to O being slide tackle..(which now registers at a higher level so no more sliding in at feet when the ball is knee-high) I would take it the Jockey shoulder button will be the one used in the new contain system...
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That would be a nightmare though if it only allows you to jockey in two directions, that can't be the case surely. Maybe the new system is a locked on jockey that allows you to rotate freely but they only showed the distance variation? How else would you have the player look at the ball and place yourself between the ball and a possible pass alternative?
 
Gab_ said:
That would be a nightmare though if it only allows you to jockey in two directions, that can't be the case surely. Maybe the new system is a locked on jockey that allows you to rotate freely but they only showed the distance variation? How else would you have the player look at the ball and place yourself between the ball and a possible pass alternative?
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Possibly with a Manual/Assisted setting for containing.
 
Didnt get a football game last year but got to say these videos have got me interested in Fifa 12. Not going into to hyper mode yet as was let down last year but man this impact engine looks dope. We all know thats not enough to fix the flaws but for now I am likeing what I see.
 
Rodelero said:
Well, firstly, you cannot tackle when using this button - you will always be 'containing', and you cannot move in close enough to tackle.
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That may be true, but when dribbling, using feints or turns to create a bit of space won't really work if they will just be (as you mention) "mirrored" instantaneously. Plus the distance between the defender and the ball when the "containing" is at it's closest, it's not far from a tackling distance.

Also, the ability to use a defender's momentum against him seems to be absent again judging by that first bit of the video and the way the defender moves, the man on the ball seems to lack any weight as well with that 90 degree turn.


Rodelero said:
It's not quite the same as PES's system, in fact, if it wasn't for the mirroring bollocks it would probably be quite a lot better. You essentially control the distance at which your man covers. This is quite a lot more precise (and offers a lot larger range) than PES's system which has a knack of drawing you too far in even when you use the 'Delay 2'.

PES uses a system not unlike FIFA 11's, just with the buttons moved about quite a lot - difference being that PES doesn't have the lack of momentum, stupid acceleration rates and massive tackle radii which made FIFA 11 intolerable.

Tactical defending can be better than FIFA 11, and PES 2011's systems by quite a long way. It could also be, if it releases like it looks now, a pretty big mess. No automated tackling is still a massive victory for this community though.
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You can't control the distance between the players using PES "containing" system, but you can just use the analog stick alone or super cancel to back off further if necessary.
With a bit of lag PES 11 can be killed by auto-tackling, but I think it has the best dribbling/tackling balance in any football game.

I don't get why EA can't sort out the player physics, how can nobody at EA realise that humans aren't that agile? It's simple physics that 80kg men can't run and instantly change direction by 90 degrees without loss of pace and balance (and ball control).
 
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The tactical defending might not be perfect but for this year it has to be better than the non stop pressing and auto tackle. Nothing can be worse than that!!
 
fifa12_wilshere_jostle_wm-550x309.jpg


Players will finally commit fouls when pressuring at the back instead of stealing the ball magically ? I hope so...

EDIT:

field.jpg


This pic reminds me of pes 2011 graphics, wich is very good.
 
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