FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

mfmaxpower said:
sliders are intended to tweak FIFA's default gameplay mechanics. It makes no sense adjusting gameplay mechanics for different teams. So, for example:

The ball should move at the same baseline speed (i.e. ball physics remain constant); player stats, context, and your controller inputs should dictate the speed of passing. If you were to change the passing speed differently for two different teams, that would mean that two players with the same exact passing stats would in effect pass quite differently. That makes no sense.

It's the same for acceleration and sprint speeds: if you adjusted the sliders individually for each team, that would mean that players with the same exact speed stats would actually move quite differently. Again, that would make no sense.

Basically, if you could individually tweak each team's settings like you suggest, you could make Swansea City a better team than Man Utd, and vice versas. Essentially you could make individual player stats irrelevant. Again, that would make no sense.

Maybe it would help some of you guys to think of the sliders just as you do the basic difficulty settings, because they too are effectively sliders. Same with controller settings. You're adjusting how the game plays, not how teams play.

Like Rod said, there's really nothing at all wrong with the concept - they are simply providing more options to play the game the way you'd like - but the implementation this year might not be the end-all-be-all solution we'd love to have. Though, as a primarily single player, I'm a bit more optimistic than Rod about how much the sliders might be able to improve the game. We'll see.
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I'm only talking about playing against the cpu. The problem I have with the game at the moment is that playing against the cpu, every match is essentially identical, every cpu team is identical, every cpu player is identical. Players' stats have no effect whatsoever on cpu players. In FIFA11, I took one team and reduced every stat of every player to 1, then played against them, and they played exactly the same as they did prior to that. It had zero effect. I laugh at how meaningless the stats are.

Equally, custom tactics in 11 are nothing. They have zero effect.

So you are quite right, through sliders, I would be looking to do precisely what you suggest, have the sliders override player stats so when I play against different teams, there is actually the potential for a different experience, and one which I can customise.

I'm not confusing this with how the game "should" work. The fact is, it currently doesn't work at all when playing against the cpu. I see sliders as a way of manufacturing some kind of variety and realism in terms of speed and ability cpu opponents, because stats and custom tactics currently clearly do not achieve this.

For the record, given the nature of the way the cpu plays, I still don't think the sliders will make playing against the cpu any more than a poor and repetitive experience. I still expect every cpu player to have perfect first touch, perfect tackling, 100% stamina all match, etc. Oh, and not forgetting every cpu team getting an idenitcal magical boost 5 minutes before the end of each half of every match.
 
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Gab_ said:
I predict that the new pet hate on Clubs mode will be the other team flair passing the whole time.
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i lknow i was told off for saying earlier but i mean, this is what i'm talking about when i say EA are drifting away from the goal of simulating football. There's no need for a button that creates "FLAIR". Make that shit contextual and RARE. Same with tricks. It's time they was all contextual and throw that crap into FIFA Street.

Tricks are such a rarity in football these days. 5 players in the world MAXIMUM get away with them on a regular basis:

Ronadinho
Neymar
Robinho
Ronaldo
Di Maria??

It's plain ridiculous watching some FIFA vids. It's like watching Step Up 4 sometimes. I hope EA bring the series back to the grass version of the sport with 13. I'll play 12 but mainly offline.
 
nice. not sure why Rooney has a forearm the size of a wrestler though.

Manager mode looks so interesting this year:

saf94 @ FSB posted this:

fifa2.png


fifa3c.png


apparently it's streaming somewhere.
 
winston said:
I'm only talking about playing against the cpu. The problem I have with the game at the moment is that playing against the cpu, every match is essentially identical, every cpu team is identical, every cpu player is identical. Players' stats have no effect whatsoever on cpu players. In FIFA11, I took one team and reduced every stat of every player to 1, then played against them, and they played exactly the same as they did prior to that. It had zero effect. I laugh at how meaningless the stats are.

Equally, custom tactics in 11 are nothing. They have zero effect.

So you are quite right, through sliders, I would be looking to do precisely what you suggest, have the sliders override player stats so when I play against different teams, there is actually the potential for a different experience, and one which I can customise.

I'm not confusing this with how the game "should" work. The fact is, it currently doesn't work at all when playing against the cpu. I see sliders as a way of manufacturing some kind of variety and realism in terms of speed and ability cpu opponents, because stats and custom tactics currently clearly do not achieve this.

For the record, given the nature of the way the cpu plays, I still don't think the sliders will make playing against the cpu any more than a poor and repetitive experience. I still expect every cpu player to have perfect first touch, perfect tackling, 100% stamina all match, etc. Oh, and not forgetting every cpu team getting an idenitcal magical boost 5 minutes before the end of each half of every match.
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Hmm, if playing against the CPU is that bad of an experience for you, then I'm not really sure why you'd bother at all. But I can assure you that stats and custom tactics do matter. Maybe not as much as many of us would prefer, but they certainly do have an effect - saying they are meaningless and have zero effect is a gross misrepresentation of things. There's a very good reason why most people online choose only a handful of teams and, guess what, it's specifically because of stats.

Sliders are not intended to add variety to the game. They are simply there to allow us to tweak the core gameplay experience.

The repetitive, generic nature that you feel playing against the CPU - which I agree is a major weakness in FIFA - is an entirely separate issue from the sliders, and blaming the sliders for something they were never intended for is a pointless waste of time. Adding sliders this year is nothing but a positive move by EA.
 
mfmaxpower said:
There's a very good reason why most people online choose only a handful of teams and, guess what, it's specifically because of stats.
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The first thing I wrote in that post was "I'm only talking about playing against the cpu."

and blaming the sliders for something they were never intended for is a pointless waste of time.
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Blaming them?
 
I'm pretty sure you use the same teams online that you do offline, thus the same stats. Claiming that stats are meaningless is utter B.S.
Whatever, if you have such a low opinion of FIFA, like I said before, why bother? (And that's a rhetorical question.)
 
When you play online, you are playing against a human controlled team. I am talking purely about 1-player, playing against the cpu, the stats of the cpu controlled team.

Whether I play against Barcelona or Bradford, I cannot tell the difference. I edit the stats of all the Bradford players to be 1, yet it has no effect on how they play. They still run at the same speed, have the same lightning reactions, have the same heat-seeking perfect tackling, have the same passing accuracy of around 90%. I alter their tactics to be extreme long ball, then try extreme short passing...no difference. It's just one generic cpu opponent with the same stats and the same tactic.
 
That online divisions thing is the exact same thing I was suggesting to my friend at work. They must have read my mind lol. Good idea, otherwise you play meaningless game after game of ranked matches for no visible progress. Let's just hope the gameplay is good too :P
 
mfmaxpower said:
If it takes maxing out the fullback run slider to make Barca play more like Barca to you, then yeah, I could imagine how that might lead to issues if that slider actually makes a big difference. But that's not really the fault of the sliders but with fundamental issues elsewhere, namely the AI and team tactics in general.
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Hit nail on head.

If the fundamental tactical variety is lacking, then at this point our complaints are useless if they're squarely aimed at how these new sliders work because they've already been implemented as global settings whose functions are to override/affect everything (although how winston sees them "as a way of manufacturing some kind of variety and realism" is beyond me) I'm sure a lot of people already agree that those positioning settings have no place as sliders when they could be of better use as custom tactics settings. But if individual team tactics provide significant influence in how each club play this time, then I can see myself leaving those specific sliders untouched.
 
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CalcioCalabrese said:
That online divisions thing is the exact same thing I was suggesting to my friend at work. They must have read my mind lol. Good idea, otherwise you play meaningless game after game of ranked matches for no visible progress. Let's just hope the gameplay is good too :P
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They pulled the idea for this from the World Cup game right?
 
Murkurial said:
They pulled the idea for this from the World Cup game right?
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Yeah that's what it said. Sounds like it's a little more involved though. Well I skimmed over that info page but sounds like there are tournaments or cups as well?

Anyway, did it say whether you have to stick to one club or if you can change every game?

One thing I'd like to see though with manual filters is the lack of too many options. Just filter on manual and not on game speed or match length or anything else. Otherwise you can narrow down the search so much that you can't find a game :P
 
adelante said:
although how winston sees them "as a way of manufacturing some kind of variety and realism" is beyond me
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When I play against a cpu controlled Barcelona, I will try cranking up the passing speed and accuracy slider for cpu team.

When I play against a cpu controlled Bradford, I will try lowering the passing accuracy and speed slider for the cpu team.

It's a pretty simple concept to understand. Will it work? Stats and custom tactics don't, so it's not a good starting point.
 
Are you sure your are able to adjust the slider before starting a match and before every single match? What if you are only able to adjust slider before you start your CM Season?

Doing it before every match sound good, but i'm not sure if this will be an option. For e.g CM i doubt it a little bit.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Sliders are not intended to add variety to the game. They are simply there to allow us to tweak the core gameplay experience.

The repetitive, generic nature that you feel playing against the CPU - which I agree is a major weakness in FIFA - is an entirely separate issue from the sliders, and blaming the sliders for something they were never intended for is a pointless waste of time. Adding sliders this year is nothing but a positive move by EA.
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I think you are missing the point of our grievences, which is why we seem to be talking past each other. Sliders are great, there is no argument there.

What mine, and probably Winston's grievence is, is that the generic play the AI come up with, and the lack of influence the CT made in 11 (which was far better in 10), makes us think that EA has some kind of blanket settings in the background which overrides any meaningfull tactical changes. The fact they have added those tactical sliders as an overal setting, for me, confirms my fears.
 
Robbery said:
Are you sure your are able to adjust the slider before starting a match and before every single match? What if you are only able to adjust slider before you start your CM Season?

Doing it before every match sound good, but i'm not sure if this will be an option. For e.g CM i doubt it a little bit.
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But they introduced the ability to change match length and difficulty on a game by game basis didn't they? I'm sure you could adjust sliders game by game also.
 
"Judgment" That just looks weird...

I agree that scouting does look loads better, the problem I have with it (and I know it's crazy petty) is that scouted players have a black silhouette for a face and it just does my head in to see 24 players in your squad with proper faces (even if it's just a 2d render not a photo) and then some terrorist suspect who's had his face blacked out for legal reasons, just find it ruins the immersion completely, for that reason alone I probably won't bother with scouting youth players.
 
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Placebo said:
"Judgment" That just looks weird...

I agree that scouting does look loads better, the problem I have with it (and I know it's crazy petty) is that scouted players have a black silhouette for a face and it just does my head in to see 24 players in your squad with proper faces (even if it's just a 2d render not a photo) and then some terrorist suspect who's had his face blacked out for legal reasons, just find it ruins the immersion completely, for that reason alone I probably won't bother with scouting youth players.
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This is a great, point. They could try to just get pictures of random people (say 300) and then just recycle them for regens.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
This is a great, point. They could try to just get pictures of random people (say 300) and then just recycle them for regens.
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Exactly, all it needs is a couple of dozen variants of skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, don't even care if hair style/length or facial hair is correct just a vague approximation is better than the black silhouette.
 
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