FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

nerf said:
To me, saying Manual controls have no place in a football simulation is a short step away from saying that the overhead camera angle we all use has no place in a football simulation, because it gives every player (that you're controlling) perfect 360 degree awareness. That's unrealistic too. When you're controlling Zat Knight, he's imbued with the same vision and standard of decision making as Xavi does when you're controlling Xavi. That's unrealistic too.

Anything you compromise by introducing controller input error, you gain back in spades in freedom and interaction. Fortunately FIFA gives us all the choice to select the method we individually prefer. For many this remains a negative mark against PES.
Click to expand...

Actually..........how about adding a blur filter that shows more or less of the screen depending on who you are controlling. I know it's a bit off, but it would be an interesting way to show a players vision.
 
Shooto said:
Of course you aim off target occasionally.

If I want to curl a ball past the keeper to the inside of the post then I aim slightly off target to allow for the trajectory of the curved shot to end up just inside the post.

To say football players don't aim is just ridiculous. Some just have better accuracy.
Click to expand...
That's still not aiming off target. In that instance you're still trying to put the ball in the far corner.

I'll try rephrasing it then to help people grasp the point - you never strike a shot with the intention of putting it wide of the post.
Manual shooting lets you do that, hence making it unrealistic.

And I don't think football players put any thought into aiming their shots, the best finishers in football are those with the instincts and technique.

As an example, if you stand 30 yards from goal in real life, and just try hitting the post, if you miss it's not because you're aiming wrongly - you're obviously aiming for the post... It's your technique/skill (aka attributes/stats) that affects the outcome.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
....to put it another way;

In real life you aim towards regions (top/bottom right/left corner etc) and your technique determines how close to that region you get. That's what semi-assisted control does.

But tbh I think Rob was just sh!t at football and that's why he couldn't aim for the crossbar and hit it......(I could :P )
 
BobbyBox said:
you never aim your finger with the intention of putting it wide of the post either?

can you not put it wide of the post without manual shooting aswell?

But your aim can be off can't it? you are aiming for the right had post and you miss it. The same as you would with your fingers when you aim with the joypad?

I still don't understand what you are on about? you need to explain it again so I grasp your point :DD
Click to expand...
It's true that you're not intentionally aiming wide with your thumb on manual, but if you do, it translates to in the game as the player actually trying to aim the ball off target. This is not realistic.

With assisted, the player will attempt to put the ball on target, but can still obviously put it wide if it's a difficult chance and/or if the player's finishing/technique is poor.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
....to put it another way;

In real life you aim towards regions (top/bottom right/left corner etc) and your technique determines how close to that region you get. That's what semi-assisted control does.

But tbh I think Rob was just sh!t at football and that's why he couldn't aim for the crossbar and hit it......(I could :P )
Click to expand...

No, wrong. Stats and context determine technique, not CPU assistance.

Like you said, you aim towards a region - the level of CPU assistance simply determines the size of your target region; i.e. how accurate you must be.

For example, when playing FIFA if you're playing fully assisted then all you need to do is aim in the general direction of the goal and, as long as stats and context are favorable, you will hit the target.

When playing semi, you margin of error is simply smaller. And on manual, if you're not aiming on target then you're going to miss.

I think some of you confuse CPU assistance from stats and context. They are not the same thing. CPU assistance is the game providing a helping hand, so that your accuracy with a stick needn't be as important. Lower CPU assistance settings should not imply less influence of stats, just a greater challenge and maybe more freedom.

Control schemes are not inherently more or less realistic than another. Some may lead to more unrealistic outcomes in certain areas of the game, like ping-pong passing, but that's due to poor game mechanics and programming and is not an inherent flaw in the control setting.
 
Speed, technique, power, acceleration, off ball movement. All these stats matter in a slow/manual game...

Shot, pass and cross accuracy in manual are in the human players ability, but you cant score a very easy goal with Terry like Messi...
 
polakis said:
Speed, technique, power, acceleration, off ball movement. All these stats matter in a slow/manual game...

Shot, pass and cross accuracy in manual are in the human players ability, but you cant score a very easy goal with Terry like Messi...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how much manual you play but lower quality players certainly do not shoot, pass, and cross nearly as well as your top players.

Shooting, passing, and crossing stats should still influence the outcome.
 
CPU attacking AI looks improved. That's not saying a lot considering how poor it is in 11 but it certainly looks to be more creative. We'll see if it's enough in the end.
 
I am overall semi manual player. I am happy to have roughly 50:50 balance from my input and mixed with related player stats to produce an outcome either on or off target.


I've never had a problem seeing my intended shot to right top corner goes wide or even to middle since it gives me illusion stats put into play as well as player uncertainty.

For latter, imo, sometimes footballer just blast his shot with slight aiming precision and hopeful to see the ball goes in.

On full manual, personally gives me less unpredictability compared to semi one. Although i am happy to have option to have modifier to manual pass ONLY to make slight adjustment in tight angle or send the ball infront of player to give more spaces before a screamer.
 
One of FIFA's attacking AI issues is shown up horribly in the forty-fiftieth second. City get the ball, and they start to forge an attack down the left hand side. They gain the ball at the 28th second with what I guess is a DM. At this point the player has 5 players in front of him as he receives the ball. Three of those players then don't join the attack at all, hovering in the midfield completely out of the play. In the 33rd second, he passes to the left wing, and the player who made the pass makes a pretty innocuous run parallel to him, as they always do in that situation, and then pauses at the corner of the box. The three midfielders who didn't run, one sits on the edge of the center circle and the other far back of the box. At this point, the attacking AI has taken all but one player out of the attack - the central forward who did actually make a run into a useful position.

The midfield in FIFA has this horrible rigidity where it doesn't really go back to defend or come forward to attack. You can sort of deal with it through manipulating the hell out of the tactics, but it makes playing a tradtional 442 almost impossible, and that's really not good enough.

This happens in FIFA 11 all the time, and it's still happening here. Obviously we have no idea how new this build is. It has debug text all over it, similar to the oldest build I had, but on the video description the guy says it from yesterday.
 
Last edited:
Hmm, interesting. Yeah, I was only watching the CPU team really but you're right about teammate AI in 11. Drives me crazy. I guess I was hoping that if the CPU team's AI is improved, that would carry over to our team as well.

But I doubt there'll be substantial improvements from that build. Just a guess.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I'm not sure how much manual you play but lower quality players certainly do not shoot, pass, and cross nearly as well as your top players.

Shooting, passing, and crossing stats should still influence the outcome.
Click to expand...


We are saying the same. Thats why full manual is far better in my opinion...
 
Rodelero said:
One of FIFA's attacking AI issues is shown up horribly in the forty-fiftieth second. City get the ball, and they start to forge an attack down the left hand side. They gain the ball at the 28th second with what I guess is a DM. At this point the player has 5 players in front of him as he receives the ball. Three of those players then don't join the attack at all, hovering in the midfield completely out of the play. In the 33rd second, he passes to the left wing, and the player who made the pass makes a pretty innocuous run parallel to him, as they always do in that situation, and then pauses at the corner of the box. The three midfielders who didn't run, one sits on the edge of the center circle and the other far back of the box. At this point, the attacking AI has taken all but one player out of the attack - the central forward who did actually make a run into a useful position.

The midfield in FIFA has this horrible rigidity where it doesn't really go back to defend or come forward to attack. You can sort of deal with it through manipulating the hell out of the tactics, but it makes playing a tradtional 442 almost impossible, and that's really not good enough.

This happens in FIFA 11 all the time, and it's still happening here. Obviously we have no idea how new this build is. It has debug text all over it, similar to the oldest build I had, but on the video description the guy says it from yesterday.
Click to expand...

On top of this, one of the bigger AI flaws in 11 is that nobody reacts to the ball, generally speaking bar the user controlled player. Players will not break pre set runs if the ball is dropping behind them and for the most part remain static in their "positions" waiting to be used. This is again evident in the new video.

Looks like minor tweaks to FIFA 11 AI to me, won't be good enough to play with over a prolonged period. No players react to either space or variations in ball position, it's all so general and non-reactive.

Maybe next year AI can be the focus? Either that or they believe they are getting the maximum out of it already.
 
groovemaster said:
On top of this, one of the bigger AI flaws in 11 is that nobody reacts to the ball, generally speaking bar the user controlled player. Players will not break pre set runs if the ball is dropping behind them and for the most part remain static in their "positions" waiting to be used. This is again evident in the new video.

Looks like minor tweaks to FIFA 11 AI to me, won't be good enough to play with over a prolonged period. No players react to either space or variations in ball position, it's all so general and non-reactive.

Maybe next year AI can be the focus? Either that or they believe they are getting the maximum out of it already.
Click to expand...

This is why I find it hard to get any real variety in gameplay. Everyone sits in their positions too much. And why it's hard to breakdown a team other than through the usual methods that "work".

Why on earth have they spent time on things they don't need yet they somehow believe the AI is fine.
 
max said:
No, wrong. Stats and context determine technique, not CPU assistance.
Click to expand...

I was talking about controller technique. If I can't differentiate between a 5deg. and a 6deg. angle with my thumb, semi-assisted helps out. It's the same for normal football, reading Rob's posts I get the impression he is happy when kicking the ball that it will go to the left when he wants it, let alone top/bottom corner, in off the post etc. That high precision level would be manual.

That's his point I think, that the control settings aren't a football setting but more to do with how good you are with your controller. So saying manual is far more realistic then assisted is nonsense in that context, it's just that gamer X is better with his thumb then gamer Y.

Obviously there is an issue with balancing the game between the different settings, which so far has been very poor. But relating your gaming skill to whether a footiegame control is more realistic or not is nonsense. It might happen to play out that way with FIFA, but essentially it shouldn't be an issue. And the fact we even have this reocurring discussion every couple of months is more a sign of how poor EA have implemented the controlsystems than whether there is a definitive "bestest" controlsettings for the most realistic football.
 
Last edited:
As with previous FIFAs, the cpu only ever seems to misplace a pass in the attacking 3rd, or a couple of times down the wing. They never misplace a single pass in defence or midfield.

Can't wait to play against Aldershot and Torquay and watch them spray it around in identical fashion, and with identical precision, to Barcelona.
 
arthurm said:
As with previous FIFAs, the cpu only ever seems to misplace a pass in the attacking 3rd, or a couple of times down the wing. They never misplace a single pass in defence or midfield.

Can't wait to play against Aldershot and Torquay and watch them spray it around in identical fashion, and with identical precision, to Barcelona.
Click to expand...

I dont understand this. I've seen countless examples in 11 of the CPU making hasty clearances out of play, i've had the cpu pass it too short and me intercept, i've also had the cpu pass back too hard and pst the keeper for an own goal.

Mistakes do happen, i've seen plenty of them.
 
nerf said:
The CPU actually misplaced a cross and had some shots from outside the area - those things hardly ever happened in 11. The stats at the end show they also had a greater share of possession than the human player on this occasion.
Click to expand...

Is it possible Sunderland were played by a human with the icon turned off or something? Seemed very human controlled in how they acted, interesting :)
 
Placebo said:
Is it possible Sunderland were played by a human with the icon turned off or something? Seemed very human controlled in how they acted, interesting :)
Click to expand...

Was just thinking the same thing.
That shot from outside the box looked very human controlled. Especially since it was a first timer shot. Normally the cpu would take the ball, run a bit and try shooting much too late.

It has been a problem with most soccer games, the cpu not taking a shot when it has the chance.
 
Definitely CPU. At the end of the vid he goes to Team Management and Sunderland are automatically 'Ready'. If it was 2up then it wouldn't have said Ready.

I'm not sure there's even an option to hide the cursor completely. And if there was, you wouldn't! It would be too confusing.
 
Dryzer said:
I dont understand this. I've seen countless examples in 11 of the CPU making hasty clearances out of play, i've had the cpu pass it too short and me intercept, i've also had the cpu pass back too hard and pst the keeper for an own goal.

Mistakes do happen, i've seen plenty of them.
Click to expand...

Really? Maybe on the odd occasion, but mostly the AI's 'random' clearance flies up the pitch and straight onto the boot or chest of an attacker. A little bit like it's locked on to him.
 
LTFC said:
Really? Maybe on the odd occasion, but mostly the AI's 'random' clearance flies up the pitch and straight onto the boot or chest of an attacker. A little bit like it's locked on to him.
Click to expand...

For me, this is very dependent on momentum. If I currently have momentum, I often get the clearances, however at the start of a match or during their momentum, they get to the clearances first.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom