FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

mfmaxpower said:
Really? Of course not. Just like you don't control your speed with a trigger and determine ball velocity with longer button presses. See my post above.

And for the hundredth time, less CPU assistance does not have to equal less relevance of stats and context.

And go read the definition of the assistance settings. They do not turn off or on player stats. They explicitly state that the higher the assistance settings, the more help you get from the game.

Stats and CPU assistance are two separate things.
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That's FIFA's assistance. It all goes down to whether you want to test you gaming skills in football matches, or to simulate a football match with your brain doing the thinking and the scenario for what is happening. If I wanted to game, I'd choose FIFA. If I wanted to think football, I'd choose PES. It is down to what you want but I would actually use both and exchange between them according to my mood.
 
mfmaxpower said:
And you're right and that's why we are always getting into debates over the level of assistance in the default settings. For many of us, the default settings in both games provide too much help, making some things relatively easy compared to their level of difficulty in real life. Ping pong passing is the perfect example.
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I'd actually take the 'hard' part in real life and implement it into the game instead of using my thumb to "test my might."
 
I didn't say "football gods" assisted you in real football... But professional footballers do things so instinctively that turning an intention into an action should not be such a test of your control of the pad.

I can't see how people don't understand this point - having the ability to aim shots off target is not realistic! Obviously, shots will miss the target, but not because of aiming!

Manual crosses can often be hit behind the goal by you aiming the stick wrongly, this is also not realistic because nobody aims to do that in real football.

Instances such as playing a through-ball and deciding how far ahead to play the ball of them, or long balls into space, I can see how manual would help, but there's plenty of other occasions where it's completely unnecessary to achieve your intention.

This seems to be dragging on for too long (soon Placebo will be here to tell us all off :P), so I'll finish with saying that I think FIFA should add a manual modifier for passing - as it works in FIFA now, it's "all or nothing", you're either manual or assisted (semi is still very assisted imo), you could use manual through balls and assisted ground passes, but this means that ALL through balls must be manual, even simple ones.
 
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hitmanuk said:
I might be misunderstanding here but how is having the ability to aim shots off target unrealistic. All footballers in real life have the ability to miss and when they do stats don't come into it in real life its an error of judgement. In real life Rooney would be in the 90's for shooting. As he ever messed up..course he has because he's human and has the ability to hit it wide over etc

So for me manual is exactly that practise practise practise and you get good yet if you make an error as the gamer you can still hit it wide.
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That is stats.

Rooney's finishing IRL should not be in the 90s, anyone who has seen him shoot regularly would agree. In any case, when he's missed a sitter, it's not because he's accidentally thought to himself 'I want to roll this one 3 or 4 yards wide of the post'. He's looked to roll it in, but his finishing ability, whether in gauging exactly which direction to send the ball or in then executing it, has let him down.

It's silly to misinterpret Rob as saying that it should be impossible for a shot to not be on target. Even talking as if he's suggesting that it should be impossible with assisted controls to aim wide of the goal to try and curl it in is wilfully missing the point - since when has manual been the only way to achieve that?
 
To me, saying Manual controls have no place in a football simulation is a short step away from saying that the overhead camera angle we all use has no place in a football simulation, because it gives every player (that you're controlling) perfect 360 degree awareness. That's unrealistic too. When you're controlling Zat Knight, he's imbued with the same vision and standard of decision making as Xavi does when you're controlling Xavi. That's unrealistic too.

Anything you compromise by introducing controller input error, you gain back in spades in freedom and interaction. Fortunately FIFA gives us all the choice to select the method we individually prefer. For many this remains a negative mark against PES.
 
romagnoli said:
That is stats.

Rooney's finishing IRL should not be in the 90s, anyone who has seen him shoot regularly would agree. In any case, when he's missed a sitter, it's not because he's accidentally thought to himself 'I want to roll this one 3 or 4 yards wide of the post'. He's looked to roll it in, but his finishing ability, whether in gauging exactly which direction to send the ball or in then executing it, has let him down.

It's silly to misinterpret Rob as saying that it should be impossible for a shot to not be on target. Even talking as if he's suggesting that it should be impossible with assisted controls to aim wide of the goal to try and curl it in is wilfully missing the point - since when has manual been the only way to achieve that?
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Yea but on manual I dont purposely hit it wide either its done in error which is my point. On assisted it takes away the choice the freedom. I've pretty much accepted that its an argument that's never going to be won.

Sometimes it seems as though stats is being used as an excuse for the lack of freedom which is what is not what I want.

One thing I do know is we will never get a football simulation and PES fans seemed convinced thats what they have.
 
Oh no is the manual thing back :-(

Just play the game however you like. Jesus. I like knowing when i score it was down to me as much as possible (with a stat adjustment). Other people like to know because its Rooney it should go on in the corner 80 percent of the time. Fine both options are there in Fifa.

Whether its realistic or not is not relevent... Its just as pointless as every year people arguing whether FIFA and PES are a revolution or evolution. Pointless, just play the fecking game.

One of the things that should matter to Konami though is that they lose money (not much) every year they leave a suitable manual option out of their game. I know thats why i'm not back on the PES train.

I also would argue that the Fifa Manual players are exactly who Konami want back.
 
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Manual passing is something I think has a place in a football game but then again it's such a balancing act that IMO neither game has nailed it but PES is currently closer to achieving it. Passing 5/6 yards to a team mate for example isn't a difficult pass. Manual in this situation doesn't work. I shouldn't even need to think about it, make the pass, my body shape and technique should give me the results (even with the worst passers it should be slightly behind or infront)

I like the idea of when controlling a player I can lock onto a target player and the distance between them combined with the stats accounts the error(Pressure can also make the precision fuzzier for players, Carrick is a good example of a good passer who struggles a lot more than worse passers when under pressure), meaning Xavi's rader remains precise from 6-7 yards all the way to say 20-30 (obviously with the precision being a little worse) which would be regarded as a "short passing". power is something which is left to the gamer. I think the idea of a Manual pass being used like PES with the modifier were you don't "lock on to anyone" and are able to choose to put the ball wherever you want. The Passing in the PES 2011 Beta I felt was a good start, more error added to that would have been a good balance I'd say.

Manual shooting is something I just don't agree with at all. Shooting is (at best) Semi Assisted. The goals don't move unlike passing players can be anywhere on the pitch whilst this isn't true for the goal. from the half way line If I shoot, Im not aiming for anything other than the target. from 25-40 yards out I am only aiming either left, middle, right. 10-25 yards (with the top players) I am again getting more freedom but again at best 4-5 places. bottom/top left, bottom//top right and the middle of the goal. No player in the world goes into more depth than that EVER. their ability does the rest.

That's how I feel personally, I do think were edging closer to that which makes me happy :))
 
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YoungGun_UK said:
from 25-40 yards out I am only aiming either left, middle, right.

That's how I feel personally, I do think were edging closer to that which makes me happy :))
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So basically, say from the edge of the D approx 22 yards, you are happy for the computer, aka stats, to decide where the ball ends up you just want to push a direction?

Each to their own but this exactly why I get no sense of achievement from PES or assisted/semi FIFA
 
I would rather that the game read what I was doin with the analog stick whilst trying to shoot to be fair. Not just CPU decides its goin well wide like.
 
hitmanuk said:
So basically, say from the edge of the D approx 22 yards, you are happy for the computer, aka stats, to decide where the ball ends up you just want to push a direction?

Each to their own but this exactly why I get no sense of achievement from PES or assisted/semi FIFA
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Well, I do because it's not just the direction I have to wonder, is the player a good shooter? Is he on his strong foot? Where is the momentum of his body taking him? How good is the GK?...In theory it's about making an informed decision. There is plenty sense of achievement in being good at assessing the situation.

I will say FIFA does a better job at what it does (manual and freedom) than PES does at its philosphy. PES does not do so well at executing their idea. I personally prefer there being a big difference between shooting with Ronaldo to shooting with Joey Barton, I play football games because I like football for the most part and for the least because I like videogames. I feel that if you play manual FIFA you are looking for a Game where it's more about being a gamer than it is about thinking like a footballer. To each their own, nothing wrong with liking one over the other.
 
I just played fifa12 in Greece. EA HELLAS made a fifa12 community day and they had 7 TV. 6 ps3s and 1 pc with fifa12...

I have to say one thing. FIFA12 is the best football game ever by far. Everything is better than fifa11 in every aspect. Graphics, faces, lighting, bigger pitch and goalposts, slower pace, more animations, better keepers, fluid impacts, quick throw ins, heavier and more difficult shots and more...

Better than ever...
 
polakis said:
I just played fifa12 in Greece. EA HELLAS made a fifa12 community day and they had 7 TV. 6 ps3s and 1 pc with fifa12...

I have to say one thing. FIFA12 is the best football game ever by far. Everything is better than fifa11 in every aspect. Graphics, faces, lighting, bigger pitch and goalposts, slower pace, more animations, better keepers, fluid impacts, quick throw ins, heavier and more difficult shots and more...

Better than ever...
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This probably the first genuinely positive FIFA12 impression i've read for months.

I hope it's all good once the final version drops.
 
I like the velocity on one of the clearances. Looked good.

I just wish your own team AI would make interesting movements be it positive or negative. Trying to get to goal or into space.
 
This debate regarding "manual vs semi/assisted" is ridiculous tbh.It's ultimately video games, it'll never be as realistic as we'd want it.The only thing we can do to satisfy our crave is to put the controllers and actually play the real thing.
 
Wdoleq said:
You can aim off target in real life, so why is not realistic? In real football you aim with your foor, in a game you aim with your finger. Thats the only difference.
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But you are not playing as you, you are playing as Cesc Fabregas. You want his abilities at your disposal. Why do they even pay for licenses then? Just make your own teams, its about how good you are at controlling them anyways.
 
fanolato said:
But you are not playing as you, you are playing as Cesc Fabregas. You want his abilities at your disposal. Why do they even pay for licenses then? Just make your own teams, its about how good you are at controlling them anyways.
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If you go by that then, why have smaller teams at all? if it is a sim then the smaller teams would never win against the big teams, even if you were controlling them. That would be a proper sim, but would you want that in your game?

It has to be a mixture of user control and stats of the players that is a game. The truly full sim is watching a real game of football where the players stats control everything.

We are playing a game which has to have the right balance. You need to be able to increase your ability at the game and be able to beat the better teams because you are more skillful at playing the game. That is what makes it fun and a game.
 
Wdoleq said:
You can aim off target in real life, so why is not realistic? In real football you aim with your foor, in a game you aim with your finger. Thats the only difference.
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No, you never aim off target in real football. I really don't get how this is difficult to understand.
 
BobbyBox said:
If you go by that then, why have smaller teams at all? if it is a sim then the smaller teams would never win against the big teams, even if you were controlling them. That would be a proper sim, but would you want that in your game?

It has to be a mixture of user control and stats of the players that is a game. The truly full sim is watching a real game of football where the players stats control everything.

We are playing a game which has to have the right balance. You need to be able to increase your ability at the game and be able to beat the better teams because you are more skillful at playing the game. That is what makes it fun and a game.
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I don't see how what you say contradicts what I say. My point is that a full control game would now be good. Playing with a big team would be useless, as will the sense of achievement from winning with a small team. My point is that the total freedom is the natural evolution is non sense. There has to be a balance of course, I prefer one somewhat favorable towards stats, some may want one favorable to ability on the sticks. That is fine. My problem is with the idea that full control and no stat interference is the way to go.
 
fanolato said:
I don't see how what you say contradicts what I say. My point is that a full control game would now be good. Playing with a big team would be useless, as will the sense of achievement from winning with a small team. My point is that the total freedom is the natural evolution is non sense. There has to be a balance of course, I prefer one somewhat favorable towards stats, some may want one favorable to ability on the sticks. That is fine. My problem is with the idea that full control and no stat interference is the way to go.
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But I don't think anybody is saying they want total control without stats being involved? who said that?

this aiming malarky is silly aswell. Of course you aim in football, you aim for certain players, areas of the pitch etc. The same you aim in a game with your finger. So on manual if your aim is off then it goes off, same with a footballer when aiming a pass or a shot.

The thing with Manual it isn't realistic at first, it is not pick up and play. But when you get used to it it is more realistic as you learn how to aim better etc you have to be more patient with your play and it plays out alot more realistically as a game as a whole when you are playing on manual imo. Your players are still stat based on manual though.

But I agree there should be more of a happy medium.
 
BobbyBox said:
But I don't think anybody is saying they want total control without stats being involved? who said that?

this aiming malarky is silly aswell. Of course you aim in football, you aim for certain players, areas of the pitch etc. The same you aim in a game with your finger. So on manual if your aim is off then it goes off, same with a footballer when aiming a pass or a shot.

The thing with Manual it isn't realistic at first, it is not pick up and play. But when you get used to it it is more realistic as you learn how to aim better etc you have to be more patient with your play and it plays out alot more realistically as a game as a whole when you are playing on manual imo. Your players are still stat based on manual though.
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Exactly:WORSHIP:
 
Footballers don't use their legs to kick a ball, they use the power of their minds. I don't know why Fifa are making them use their legs ;))
 
kouroux said:
This debate regarding "manual vs semi/assisted" is ridiculous tbh.It's ultimately video games, it'll never be as realistic as we'd want it.The only thing we can do to satisfy our crave is to put the controllers and actually play the real thing.
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You heard it here first. Drop it!
 
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