Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Re: Fifa 11

Anyone else still aware of the invisible wall that sometimes comes up around cpu players so you can't get close enough to do a standing tackle? Possibly happens when the cpu is in one of its boost modes.

And is it my imagination, or when the cpu does a slide tackle, it can slide a much greater distance than you can, and almost always gets the ball with some inconceivable twist of its foot around your legs. It also usually knocks you to the ground but a free-kick is rarely given. So basically, it clatters into you from all sorts of angles, knocks you over, you're thinking red card, but not even a foul awareded, so you check the replay and see the cpu player slide right through you man but also win the ball. Yet I basically feel I can never do slide tackles (except when there is very clear space between the opposing player and the ball), as the slide-tackle button is effectively the "get yourself red/yellow carded" button.
 
Re: Fifa 11

drekkard said:
I just lost a very long long post and I'm lazy to write it against, so I will sum it up loosing all the subtelties:

- Difficulty: I would love to have no difficulty levels. Difficulty should come itself by the difference of the two teams. If I play Albania against Brazil, it should be near impossible. The other way around should be very easy. They won't do it for marketing purposes, but it would make things more logical.

- Stats boosting: though I respect everything said and I know how things work, there has always been something I'm still waiting to be justified: speed catching up. How come, if it's not by stats boosting of any kind, CPU players can catch up my fastes striker? It definitely HAPPENS in the game, so some "cheating" must be done. The same happens in the "inertia" factor. CPU players are bound to change direction quickier than my players. That CAN'T be done by a human player with the joystick, we have no control about that and it's clearly not "reaction time" based, so again, it's blatant CHEATING. I've seen many times a CPU defender make a rush of 4 meters doing 4 quick steps to catch the ball while my striker enters "slow motion" and can even complete 1 step of 1/2 meter to reach it. Which is the explanation to that, then?

I'm just curious because as a programmer I can understand what they're doing, how they do it and the need for it because of the lack of real AI. But it's quite obvious there IS stat boosting in some way in specific situations (making CPU stats up OR my player's stats down as PES used to do), or at least the CPU is bending the rules of the game to his benefit (their players being less prone to inertia, for example).
Click to expand...

Yep...

If it is as is claimed and not stat boosting how can the slower defender catch the faster striker 5 or ten yards from him at full sprint and how when I'm chasing back with a defender I can't catch the AI striker on full sprint but if I swap to another player and hit :square: to 2nd press the same player I just had will speed up when I don't have him...:JAY:

However it's dressed up the game has the AI doing things that are not humanly possible, this is just wrong...
 
Re: Fifa 11

I am absolutely convinced that all of this is in your minds. I've been playing against legendary AI all year and have not seen any speed boosting of any sort. I've seen players not sprint to get a bouncing ball and then be dispossessed but that's because of trapping issues, not speed boosting/

And no I'm not saying this because EA said so. I've never once blamed anything on attribute boosting. It doesn't happen. It's just easier to say that than work out what the actual, underlying problem is.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I can except why they do it and I can except why they will go out of their way to vehemently deny it happens it does not mean I have to believe them, I'm not on the pay roll (or trying to be) I love playing MM when it lets me and I can even live with the AI boost I just don't have to like it...



Please kid's try this one at home!
"How when I'm chasing back with a defender I can't catch the AI striker on full sprint but if I swap to another player and hit to 2nd press the same player I just had will speed up when I don't have him and close him down"...
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

There is a feature in NHL 10, that if a player is injured in real life, he is scratched from the online rosters, so you cant use him in ranked games. I really like it, it adds more authenticity. I would like to see the same in FIFA 11:COOL: I know theres Live Season, but this is a little different.
 
Re: Fifa 11

CarlitosCZE said:
There is a feature in NHL 10, that if a player is injured in real life, he is scratched from the online rosters, so you cant use him in ranked games. I really like it, it adds more authenticity. I would like to see the same in FIFA 11:COOL: I know theres Live Season, but this is a little different.
Click to expand...

But that only works if you are playing a real time season, otherwise it's pointless as your season or Manager mode bears no resemblance to the real life league, other then having that player in it?...
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
But that only works if you are playing a real time season, otherwise it's pointless as your season or Manager mode bears no resemblance to the real life league, other then having that player in it?...
Click to expand...

Well..it's not meant for Manager mode but just for online games?
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
But that only works if you are playing a real time season, otherwise it's pointless as your season or Manager mode bears no resemblance to the real life league, other then having that player in it?...
Click to expand...

Its only for online ranked matches, not for offline seasons, manager mode etc...
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
I can except why they will go out of their way to vehemently deny it happens it does not mean I have to believe them,
Click to expand...

The important thing is they're not denying there is some sort of boost. What actually changes to create the boost is a technical matter. It's the size of the boost and the degree to which it affects gameplay that is important. If they tone it down, and place more emphasis on stat based abilities, then that would be a big step in the right direction.

PES has always had the same sort of cpu boosts and cheats (and people like myself and Drekk were always being told were imagining it, bad losers, etc), but eventually, as the years past and the boosts became more and more obvious, even some of Seabass's staunchest fanboys started to accept that there was some dodgy AI stuff going on and there wasn't actually a level playing field at all. However, with PES, no matter how hard we complained or how valid our complaints, it was pointless, as there was absolutely no communication channel with Konami or Seabass.

If EA are listening, and willing to act, then finally we have some hope for improved 1-player gameplay.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Drekk and Nick,

The real problem you are facing is nothing to do with stat boosting. Your descriptions are both textbook cases of not pressing L2+R2 to disengage from the dodgy auto ball-trapping logic. The trapping logic often slows your player down to meet, in particular, a bouncing ball at what is meant to be a comfortable time to trap it, but fairly frequently you find that it ignores whether a CPU player is also chasing the ball. The CPU doesn't suffer this problem as it can read 3D space directly rather than having to guess where the ball is using a 2D screen so it can afford to press L2+R2 to meet the ball at the right point or will know how to get a touch on the ball before you do. Whereas you only know if you need to press L2+R2 when you can see your player is slowing down or not running at full speed.

Pretty much any problem you are having with the CPU is not down to a mythicalstat boosting issue but a very real error of another sort, like this. The CPU does not have an invisible wall around it - it is programmer to be ubereffectiv with the tiny sliver of shielding ability that is in the game. The CPU doesn't have a longer slide tackle reach than you - it knows how to use it much better than 99% of humans ever will. The CPU isn't faster than you - it just knows exactly what is happening 1000 times quicker than you. Even the 85th minute boost in the AI's performance has nothing to do with the players on the pitch; it's the virtual player using them that gets ramped up, not the stats of the players on the pitch.


So I'm not going to pass on any player stat boosting complaints because it doesn't happen, but if you save and upload videos of this stuff actually happening so EA can deduce what the real problem is then that'd be great.
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Drekk and Nick,

The real problem you are facing is nothing to do with stat boosting. Your descriptions are both textbook cases of not pressing L2+R2 to disengage from the dodgy auto ball-trapping logic. The trapping logic often slows your player down to meet, in particular, a bouncing ball at what is meant to be a comfortable time to trap it, but fairly frequently you find that it ignores whether a CPU player is also chasing the ball. The CPU doesn't suffer this problem as it can read 3D space directly rather than having to guess where the ball is using a 2D screen so it can afford to press L2+R2 to meet the ball at the right point or will know how to get a touch on the ball before you do. Whereas you only know if you need to press L2+R2 when you can see your player is slowing down or not running at full speed.

Pretty much any problem you are having with the CPU is not down to a mythicalstat boosting issue but a very real error of another sort, like this. The CPU does not have an invisible wall around it - it is programmer to be ubereffectiv with the tiny sliver of shielding ability that is in the game. The CPU doesn't have a longer slide tackle reach than you - it knows how to use it much better than 99% of humans ever will. The CPU isn't faster than you - it just knows exactly what is happening 1000 times quicker than you.

So I'm not going to pass on any player stat boosting complaints because it doesn't happen, but if you save and upload videos of this stuff actually happening so EA can deduce what the real problem is then that'd be great.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry but that's just wrong, I can be running full sprint with the ball under control and still be caught by a defender with half the speed stats from a standing start, I have the ball and the man I'm not chasing it down, I'm not going to hit cancel as I have the player and the ball?

In the same way I'm chasing the AI player at full sprint he has the ball under control I can get nowhere near him, I hit swap player then :square: to press, that same player I could go no faster with suddenly speeds up!

That's not down to the AI getting a phantom player boost to move within the limits of the game faster, I'm at full sprint already there is no other button press to go faster?

By the way I'm not asking you to pass any of this on to EA I have done that myself in the past, I'm just trying to get the point across and vent to be honest... ;)
 
Re: Fifa 11

At the end of the day there is a boost to the opposition team, doesn't matter if it is a stats boost or another form of boost. It still happens.

I am with Nick et al. there are definately things in the game where the opposition suddenly can catch you up etc etc and it is not right.

I can't believe the people that make Fifa are so stupid that if somebody mentions stat boosting then they just go and close their ears and go 'well we know there is no stat boosting, so we are going to close our ears and not listen to what ALOT of people are saying'.

If they were worth anything they would go, 'well quite alot of people are talking about stat boosting, lets try and see what they are talking about and resolve it'.

It's all well and good listening to fans etc but do they really need to be spoon fed everything?! they play the fucking game aswell? they should know what is happening?

Last time they were taking on what the fans were saying and they talked the talk, but when it came down to the actual game they fucking couldn't walk the walk and let alot of people down.

I respect everything you have put into this thread Romagnali (and other threads relating to make fifa better) and you have done a brilliant job. But it seems you are the only person that believes some stuff and alot of people believe otherwise. So when you get all frustrated trying to convince people, it can sound a bit condescending as there are many people here that play the game as much and even more than you. They may not have gone to test out the new game, but that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong.

I know you have met the guys and been impressed with them. But as I said they said alot of impressive things last time and they failed to materialise. So i think alot of people on here are trying to keep their optimism down so they don't get let down when the game is released.

Anyway Romagnali I hope you don't see that as an attack, because I think your passion for the game and everything that you have done will make Fifa a better game. But I just think sometimes you are trying to 'flog a dead horse' to people who won't be convinced about what Fifa says until they see it in the final game.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
So I'm not going to pass on any player stat boosting complaints because it doesn't happen
Click to expand...

I take it you don't play much manager mode? Be a Prem team and draw some crappy League 2 team in a cup, it tends to be a far harder game than when competing against a comparable Prem team, the underdog AI logic is horrible when on a high skill level against much lower opposition, this has been brought up time and again over the past 3 Fifa's, when you a 5* team play against a much lower team with players as low as 50-60 they magically become John Terry in the tackle, Messi in the dribble, Fabregas in the pass, Cronaldo in the shot, clearly making a mockery of their much lower stats, obviously there's the whole "magic of the cup" where lesser players raise their game and cup shocks should happen in real life, but they don't happen because some player who's shite for Accrington all season in their league magically becomes Cronaldo for 1 match. Not to mention the fact that they some how manage to uber press you for the whole 90 minutes without getting tired.
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

Well upload some vids of this happening, of your player on the ball and the defender running from a standing start and te defender making up 5-10 yards to catch you. It will be news to me as I've played FIFA 10 to death and have never, ever seen this. In fact one of the big problems with the game is that you can just give the ball to any fast player and strip the fullback to get a cross in. I remember Marcel Jansen was playing as my left winger in my MM game with just as much of a positive impact as Alexis Sanchez or Mauro Zarate.

Bobby: I get frustrated precisely because for all this venting that people do, I can't really use any of it to try and make FIFA better. That's all I want to do as far as this thread and the other ones are concerned. So when people say this stuff that I've never seen is definitely there despite the creative director of the game (whose company spent a fuckload of money to fly us out and improve their game, and repeatedly asked us not to pull any punches and be as critical as possible) saying it isn't then I am going to get pretty exasperated.

It's not that I mean to sound as disrespectful as I almost definitely do or anything like that - I've said plenty of times that it's this community that can make, arguably has made, the difference when it comes to what goes into FIFA 11 - but this particular topic winds me up because as long as people think the AI is treated differently from human players as far as player stats are concerned, and as long as mo videos are supplied to prove this theory (which is utterly, utterly vital), there is nothing I can use. So it's all a bit impotent from my perspective.
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

Placebo said:
I take it you don't play much manager mode? Be a Prem team and draw some crappy League 2 team in a cup, it tends to be a far harder game than when competing against a comparable Prem team, the underdog AI logic is horrible when on a high skill level against much lower opposition, this has been brought up time and again over the past 3 Fifa's, when you a 5* team play against a much lower team with players as low as 50-60 they magically become John Terry in the tackle, Messi in the dribble, Fabregas in the pass, Cronaldo in the shot, clearly making a mockery of their much lower stats, obviously there's the whole "magic of the cup" where lesser players raise their game and cup shocks should happen in real life, but they don't happen because some player who's shite for Accrington all season in their league magically becomes Cronaldo for 1 match. Not to mention the fact that they some how manage to uber press you for the whole 90 minutes without getting tired.
Click to expand...

Never played Manager Mode but the same thing happened in Euro2008, when you would play something like Luxembourg in the qualifiers and they'd be just about the toughest match. They wouldn't actually score, but would pass the ball around for minutes at a time like Brazil on steroids. It was fucking terrible. Then you'd play something like France and have an easy win :(.

However, in WC2010, lo and behold, the likes of Luxembourg are crap and easy to roast 6 or 7 (even 14-0 one match :LOL:) at home, but a bit tougher away from home. So they've done something to improve this.

However, they've still got a "cup competition multiplier" going on, so if you play a weak team in the latter stages on the WC, they play much better than they should, so I would expect that if this was club football, if Accrington somehow got to the FA Cup semi, you'd be playing against some boosted, generic SF team who happen to be wearing Accrington colours. The cup competitions seem to work on a basis whereby each round you advance, by default, the difficulty setting increases, no matter who the oppostion. This needs toned down.
 
Re: Fifa 11

winston said:
Never played Manager Mode but the same thing happened in Euro2008, when you would play something like Luxembourg in the qualifiers and they'd be just about the toughest match. They wouldn't actually score, but would pass the ball around for minutes at a time like Brazil on steroids. It was fucking terrible. Then you'd play something like France and have an easy win :(.
Click to expand...

Yeah the underdog AI logic in Euro08 was horrific, whoever programmed that needs shooting, minnows would pack the defence with 10 players behind the ball, then once they win it back hammer it upfield perfectly to their one forward who'd latch onto it and be clean through, awful, awful game.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
Hmmm in that case what's the easiest/best way to pull video off your PS3 I've never even uploaded my replays off the the thing?...:P
Click to expand...

Me neither, so don't know, but one big problem with videos is that, critically, they don't show your controller input.

I've seen videos by moaners and if I didn't already know exactly what they were trying to show, I'd be thinking "what a tit, there's nothing wrong with that".

For example, the invisible wall that sometimes comes up around cpu guys, a video of you running quite close to them doesn't show that your controller input is being overridden so your guy actually changes direction a little to prevent him getting close. The video, in isolation, shows nothing.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick, I just use the EA Replay upload feature. You need to have an EAFootballWorld sign-in if you haven't done all that. Can't remember the full process off the top of my head.

I had a look at mine last night. Out of FIFA 10 and WC2010's fice slots each I've saved two actual goals and eight game issues to report! I need to start playing for fun really..
 
Re: Fifa 11

Winston, that's where you need to annotate the video and explain objectively what you are doing on the pad.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Romagnoli, I appreciate a lot all of your efforts, as most of us do, but find it really hard to believe you've never seen the CPU player sprinting towards any given direction and suddenly stop and go to another direction in a much faster time than any human player could? That's clearly a cheat, as you can't do that with any joystick combination.

I understand how EA is approaching things, and I can believe there isn't stat boosting all the time, but for specific moment, it's quite obvious there is to me.

But anyway, that's not as important as it may look. It's far more important that we talk about the "overall" feeling we have as gamers and we all agree the CPU "feels" stronger, faster and all that. We all have suffered any 2 division fella dribbling us like maradona everytime. We all know we don't want that in the game.

There are 4 things they could do to battle this:

1- Design a the cpu in a more "human" way, specially in reaction times. I know that's the hardest part, as it's bloody hard to code things trying to represent human behaviour. Really really difficult.

2- More CPU fairness: That is similar to the previous point, but a bit different. If I'm playing Manual, I want the CPU to be playing "manual" too. That means that CPU should not be able to do a 20 yards pass quicker than I am. In manual I have to "charge" the pass, and so should the CPU. I know pro passing will affect that in some way.

3- Have stats impact even greater into the game, that's a MUST. So even if I'm playing a higher difficulty level, Accrington should be easily beaten by my Premier team.

4- Reduce GREATLY the way tournament phases affect the teams. For example, playing Arsenal and facing Accrington in a final shouldn't make Accrington play as Tottenham. That could esily be done by boosting (as you see, I'm not all against stats boosting) the mental stats of all Accrington players, as the presence in a final is giving them some extra mental edge, but don't affect anything else! That way, if I'm playing in Professional level, it won't go to Legendary automatically in the final, no matter the team. I should be playing the final in Professional difficulty, that is the difficulty I CHOSE for that match, but with a version of Accrington that is "slightly" mentalised for the match.

So, overall, keep up the good work Romagnoli, I like your posts and are always well written, even if we differ now and then. But it's only in very small details. Overall, most of the people in this thread tends to agree on how we would like the game to improve.

PS: Winston, there was an interview 2 years ago in which Seabas himself accepted they were "bending" the game to make some things more probable to happen. He accepted the loosing team always had some boost in the last minutes and things like that... I clearly remember talking about the cpu stats boosting in pes and people telling it was in our minds... Time always puts things in their places.
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

I somehow miss most of these alleged CPU 'cheats', too.

I also find it too much of a coincidence that the exact same complaints get made about this sort of thing in Pro Evo as they do in FIFA. Seeing as it's different code written by different programmers to meet different specifications written by different designers... that just leads me to believe that it's most often gamer paranoia.

Then whenever these things get moaned about, it's always with huge exaggeration and such vague, sensationalised descriptions. It's no wonder if the devs filter it out. If they were given clear evidence like Romagnoli suggests, they can analyse it and use what they know is 'under the hood' to figure out what specifically is happening and why it looks the way it does.

In all the years of people moaning about 45-Speed defenders out-pacing 90-speed strikers in both PES and FIFA, nobody has ever once produced a simple and easy video of it happening.
 
Re: Fifa 11

nerf said:
I somehow miss most of these alleged CPU 'cheats', too.

I also find it too much of a coincidence that the exact same complaints get made about this sort of thing in Pro Evo as they do in FIFA. Seeing as it's different code written by different programmers to meet different specifications written by different designers... that just leads me to believe that it's most often gamer paranoia.

Then whenever these things get moaned about, it's always with huge exaggeration and such vague, sensationalised descriptions. It's no wonder if the devs filter it out. If they were given clear evidence like Romagnoli suggests, they can analyse it and use what they know is 'under the hood' to figure out what specifically is happening and why it looks the way it does.

In all the years of people moaning about 45-Speed defenders out-pacing 90-speed strikers in both PES and FIFA, nobody has ever once produced a simple and easy video of it happening.
Click to expand...

Yes they have. There are loads of videos out there of cpu cheats, particularly PES ones. Take a look around you tube, etc.

Here's the first video that came up on you tube - one which shows typical cpu taking control of your guy - it's from PES but could equally apply to FIFA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcnwsq-5Ob8

The main reason the same cheats appear in both games is that FIFA copied many ideas directly from PES. In fact, didn't EA actually poach some of Konami's developers?
 
Re: Fifa 11

That's not a cheat. That would be just as likely to happen to you in multiplayer. It's a bug with the player reaction to being barged and thinking possession is lost.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Watch the video to the end, the next two incidents don't involve collisions. The final non-penalty is class.

Here's another typical cheat, both applicable to PES and FIFA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2fjA6goCzM&feature=related

And the famous invisible goal-line wall cheat that was a regular feature in PES, yet only in favour of the cpu team - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK9Nlh8C5WQ

Not bothered what anyone wants to call them, cheats, bugs, etc. They wreck any sense of fair play and need to be fixed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom