Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

mfmaxpower said:
I see no reason why the option to manage player growth should be removed all together when all it needs is some minor tweaking. I would add, that with personality+ coming this year, managing player development could be tons of fun as real decisions would need to be made (rather than dump all XP into speed attributes!).
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Absolutely agree, although I think it needs more than just minor tweaks. I wasn't knocking the worth of growth as a feature, just listing the reasons why it hasn't worked (in brief: shoddy implementation).

mfmaxpower said:
we never knew the specifics of how the system worked, but it wasn't too hard to get used to it and be able to estimate certain outcomes - I only had minor quibbles with how XP was allocated among players.
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I disagree, I think it needs to be far more transparent in order to become something meaningful. I need to be given an idea of how a player's match performance translates to XP. I need to be able to judge how a sub appearance for an 18 yr old prospect compares to starting him, in terms of XP gain. I need to get a good feel for how the decisions I'm making influence how each player develops. I'm not asking to know the algorithms, I just need some clear feedback on the choices I make.

Until I have this information, I can't make meaningful decisions, and I resort to never bothering to look at player growth because I feel I have no control over it.

I don't know how PES does it nowadays, but around PES5/6 after each fixture you would literally be shown the XP ticking up next to the players who had just played, showing their progress towards the next rating. Konami do this sort of thing with such better clarity. EA need to write the word 'FEEDBACK' in neon letters at the top of their design document and make that the watchword for everything they implement in MM. It's not necessarily about having a deeper experience, it's about making what's there mean something.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
They seem to be missing the point that the atmosphere for MM is only partly created in the menu's, but mostly it's created in dynamic in-game atmosphere's and tactics. Championship deciders should be a ridiculous level of cheering and booing, relegation fodder should be playing 10men defense tactics to try and draw when playing a big team. Derby matches should have the ridiculous high pressure of 10 but with added fatigue and dirtyness. Relegation battles should be dire longball match-ups with very little chances, etc, etc. The atmosphere is created by feeling like you are playing teams that are actually playing for something and not just going through the motions of a single match.

Everything about EA and MM seems to be focused on getting the emails right and sh!t like that, that I would assume, most of us skip past anyway after reading it once. It's nice having a news item saying barca have managed to get to the QF of the CL whilst I'm trying to win the EL (Liverpool) or that we get to see a RVP signature image but I want the atmosphere to be in the matches. Far more so then the menu system. Tbh just having the basics in there would be good enough for me. Just have the correct shedules with day/night and seasonal weather correct, have access to stats from multiple leagues, have a good player development system and have a decent transfer system. To hell with all the "Ibra rumoured to be signing for Citeh" nonsense. I don't really care, as long as I see realistic transfers with other teams it's enough.

Have that and then have the in-game stuff and it would be so much better. I thought the WC did a really good job of showing the different levels of teams and player quality, however they all had the same "goal" of qualifying. It would be great to play a team like Blackpool and see them not give a toss about scoring or attacking but just keeping you away from their goal.
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If only EA could understand this. Or care enough to try and implement this.

If Personality+ is as big a deal as they're making it out to be, it can't be that difficult to tune it to cause certain teams to play a specific way as well. I may have missed the part where a dev mentioned Personality+ extending beyond individual players but I'd imagine that they'd have to find a way to make CPU-controlled Barça play the short passing game like they do, or Inter (or any Mourinho team for that matter) being incredibly tough (read: dirty and never getting called for fouls :)))) defensively. Or have Bayern look to get the ball to Robben (hopefully on the right side, or maybe they'll switch him from side to side) so he can cut in and fire across the face of goal.

I don't remember things like tuning the custom tactics to have players find space more often to facilitate the passing game having much of an effect on things when you got into the actual game (against a human at least), but maybe that was down to the pressure killing any sort of possession play.

Am I asking for too much...?
 
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Hopefully not. One of the things EA said was that they're getting the AI to choose to play riskier passes if the reward seems greater, rather than just playing 80-90% likely-to-succeed passes and never trying to dribble past you. Hopefully that risk vs reward system bears in mind who is on the other end of the pass.

We'll have to see, but fundamentally the AI has to play as much like their relative teams as possible. I do think that passing error, provided it's all implemented well enough in the final game (and as I said they can tune it whenever they want now), will have a big part to play in shaping this. That likely-to-succeed predictive calculation will be far more varied now. Combined with proper use of the tactics and formations, as well as the other changes they said they were making like teaching the CPU to retain possession rather than just bomb forward, hopefully we'll see a big change in this area.
 
nerf said:
I disagree, I think it needs to be far more transparent in order to become something meaningful. I need to be given an idea of how a player's match performance translates to XP. I need to be able to judge how a sub appearance for an 18 yr old prospect compares to starting him, in terms of XP gain. I need to get a good feel for how the decisions I'm making influence how each player develops. I'm not asking to know the algorithms, I just need some clear feedback on the choices I make.

Until I have this information, I can't make meaningful decisions, and I resort to never bothering to look at player growth because I feel I have no control over it.

I don't know how PES does it nowadays, but around PES5/6 after each fixture you would literally be shown the XP ticking up next to the players who had just played, showing their progress towards the next rating. Konami do this sort of thing with such better clarity. EA need to write the word 'FEEDBACK' in neon letters at the top of their design document and make that the watchword for everything they implement in MM. It's not necessarily about having a deeper experience, it's about making what's there mean something.
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I'm 100% with you. I was only implying that even though the system was poor, through countless hours I got used to how players grew. In no way did I mean to imply that it was satisfactory, because it straight up sucked.

Your suggestions are right in line with what I've been thinking, and coming from playing PES back in the day, like you I got used to their system and have always seen FIFA's as being overly basic and antiquated.

If nothing else, it'll be very interesting to see how Career Mode is done. It's hard to make suggestions for improvement over MM when CM is an entirely new beast that we know little about at this point.
 
romagnoli said:
Hopefully not.
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Let's hope that that's what we're in for.

But another thing that I was wondering about. I was just watching this debate about the future of French footy and was reminded of the recent changes to the NT that Blanc was making and I'm curious to know if it already is, or if it will be possible to choose from the national team talent pool to restructure your NT roster online?

What I mean by that is, when you load up the online game, it'll lock you into the official online, undoctored (in the case of glitchers) EA rosters. But from there, before you go online, you can retool the NT any way you like. Say you wanna pull a Laurent Blanc and completely revamp the NT for a game but guys like Menez aren't on the bench in EA's roster. How difficult do you think it might be for EA to allow you to do that before playing a match? I would always get annoyed when I found that I'd have to wait until the winter roster update to (hopefully) play with a guy who I've seen being called up to the NT in friendlies and qualifying matches for months prior.

It just seems like a cool, and in some cases logical, addition to make to the online game provided it isn't possible to do anything crazy.

Something that EA have mentioned to you or hinted at perhaps? Or something that you could pass along. Might be a bit late to get it thrown in for release of course.
 
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That'd get abused albeit not to any great extent. People would just pick the best players although i suppose it isn't that big a deal, it'd be a bit silly having people choose players who have internationally retired. Maybe rather than limit NT's to a 23 man squad they should just give you a bigger pool of players to include the fringe players but not those who have retired. That wouldn't even take much effort.

If you play player matches as opposed to ranked you can have your own national teams i believe. Atleast it worked when i changed my NT players around and played my friend in 09.

Although on the subject of NT's it'd be much better for those kind of matches if they somehow found a way to make England players much worse than when they play for their clubs :)
 
Northzzz said:
That'd get abused albeit not to any great extent. People would just pick the best players although i suppose it isn't that big a deal, it'd be a bit silly having people choose players who have internationally retired. Maybe rather than limit NT's to a 23 man squad they should just give you a bigger pool of players to include the fringe players but not those who have retired. That wouldn't even take much effort.
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Yeah, some might but I don't think that it'd be too big a deal unless you could somehow glitch it to bring in Cantona or someone. More than likely those who've retired from the NT are gonna be up there in age with at least one player in the squad at that position being of a higher quality. And if stats really do matter now, that'll be reflected even more accurately this time around.

And with the way FIFA seem to overrate the starters in these games, your best bet would probably be to go with someone already in the starting lineup/reserves from the outset. Unless Personality+ and attributes will really be what they've been talked up to be. If that's the case then it'd add another layer of strategy to the game. Fire up a match with the youngster-laden squad that Blanc is putting out for the friendly against Norway and see what you can do with 'em. EA won't take anyone out of the team due to injury (not sure why) so the superstars will always be available to anyone who wants to use them. I can't really see how someone could use this to cheese and really it will more than likely result in you being at a distinct disadvantage, but maybe you wanna see how certain players work together. Now...if EA bring back that live season trash and vastly overrate players who score a goal in a match, then you might see everyone bringing a certain guy into the team but if the ratings boosts are realistic, no one guy should jump high enough to turn into a Messi or Ronaldo.

What I really wish they'd do is do something with real-world injuries and call-ups to the first team from the reserves for club squads (maybe only do it for the 6 big leagues that they seem to concentrate on the most).

If you play player matches as opposed to ranked you can have your own national teams i believe. Atleast it worked when i changed my NT players around and played my friend in 09.
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Yeah, I used to do this. But people would also throw created players on their squads as well as you could do absolutely anything to your squads in unranked matches (if I'm remembering things correctly).

Although on the subject of NT's it'd be much better for those kind of matches if they somehow found a way to make England players much worse than when they play for their clubs :)
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:P
 
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Have a word with EA before the game is out Rom!
Every time I play a club game it doesn't store the camera settings. Been like it since 09!! Does my head in having to sort it every single game. I'm not the only one it happens to.

I accept gameplay is the priority but I imagine this can be sorted easily.
 
Yeah and tell them that old Gabby want to be able to lock to one player in offline tournament mode too :SMUG:
 
SJP76 said:
Have a word with EA before the game is out Rom!
Every time I play a club game it doesn't store the camera settings. Been like it since 09!! Does my head in having to sort it every single game. I'm not the only one it happens to.

I accept gameplay is the priority but I imagine this can be sorted easily.
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This is a weird one coz a lt of players mention this happening but its always been fine on my ps3/game. Why would it differ? Weird one.

Played some Fifa10 clubs last night for the first time in months (go AVF Blu Rays!!) but I wish I hadnt bothered. Id forgotten how frustrating Fifa10 clubs can be. And my god the graphics looked shit compared to the WC game that ive been playing instead. I think ill use the Fifa10 disc as a coaster from now on. World Cup got a few knockers but IMO its miles better than Fifa10 in every department, gameplay and graphics wise. It was like ps2 graohics :SHOCK:
 
SJP76 said:
Have a word with EA before the game is out Rom!
Every time I play a club game it doesn't store the camera settings. Been like it since 09!! Does my head in having to sort it every single game. I'm not the only one it happens to.

I accept gameplay is the priority but I imagine this can be sorted easily.
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i've never had this problem, always fine for me, do you have auto save off by any chance?
 
This problem definitely exists, and my autosave is on. It 'stores' the settings, but it doesn't apply them at the start of the game. I use tele with no zoom, and when I start the game it's at default zoom. If you go into menu, the zoom is on 0, as it should be, but you have to change the setting to 1 and then back to get it to work.
 
aitk3n said:
i've never had this problem, always fine for me, do you have auto save off by any chance?
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Might have. Don't play offline so I'll check that. It stores for 1v1 games though but Thanks fella.
Wildster the game you joined in with was shocking. Games earlier were much better.
 
I really hope there's an option to QUIT Career mode in the middle of a match without being penalised for it. Countless times I start playing a Manage Mode in fifa 10 then I receive an invitation from someone and I just can't quit without losing the match 3-0.

At least put an option like PES "anti-cheating" or something like that, that can be switched on and off.
 
aitk3n said:
i've never had this problem, always fine for me, do you have auto save off by any chance?
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I def have auto save on and it still doesn't save my camera settings for BAP. I play that mode quite a bit so it's annoying having to change it every game.

Roll on FIFA 11 though as I'm so fucked with every team chipping all the time. It's ridiculous. Also can't wait for pro passing now as the way most teams play is ridiculous. Hope the superclones aren't possible too!

Stick an option in to kick people who take too long to start too. Mendoza takes forever in out team. Fucking pain in the ass!!

Keen to hear what they have done with the mode.
 
Your right mate, getting a match going can sometimes take forever. The whole process needs speeding up. Perhaps the captains can kick people. Why is the countdown timer so high? Just doesn't need to be. Spectator mode needed or at least a match timer so when your in the dressing room waiting you can see how long is left. The hub screen where you can see what half etc is not very accurate and reliable.

On another note, big news to come with fifa11. Adam (fsb and wenb) says when it hits, the news will make jaws drop. Intriguing.
 
Spectator mode for clubs would be great when you are waiting. Even better would be the ability to ask the captain to sub you on if they were mid game. Looking forward to hearing what the club changes are.
 
Shooto said:
Spectator mode for clubs would be great when you are waiting. Even better would be the ability to ask the captain to sub you on if they were mid game. Looking forward to hearing what the club changes are.
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Not even asking. Should just show list of free positions and you should be able to just enter play once ball goes out. Message pops up saying x has entered the game. Just like in COD for example.
 
Cue one team of 3 players being matched up against another team of three players by the matchfinding engine, only for seven more people to join one of the teams in the 10th minute and then collectively rape the team of three. :)
 
romagnoli said:
Cue one team of 3 players being matched up against another team of three players by the matchfinding engine, only for seven more people to join one of the teams in the 10th minute and then collectively rape the team of three. :)
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+1
 
romagnoli said:
Cue one team of 3 players being matched up against another team of three players by the matchfinding engine, only for seven more people to join one of the teams in the 10th minute and then collectively rape the team of three. :)
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maximum of 3 subs then :)
 
I'm very worried about this 'big' news that they seem to be holding off. I can imagine it's something incredibly trivial. :(
 
romagnoli said:
Cue one team of 3 players being matched up against another team of three players by the matchfinding engine, only for seven more people to join one of the teams in the 10th minute and then collectively rape the team of three. :)
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Team of 3 would batter a team of 7+ easily.
So much easier play clubs with less players when somebody is Any!!

Not even bothered if we can join mid game. Just give us a practice pitch to mess about in Instead of having to wait around.
 
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Having 3 players is actually the easiest way to play if you're on assisted, I had a look at the top ranked Club a few weeks ago and it only had 3 members... Maybe they should remove the ability to play as Any? This would make having more players an advantage and would make people have to actually play in defence (because the AI sucks).

I'm not really bothered about a spectator mode or being able to join during a game, but finding a game definitely needs speeding up as well as the 6'7 giants with green afros and yellow gloves removed... A return to 09's 85 rated players would be better than using VPs.
I doubt that will happen though.
 
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